You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

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Jurph
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Jurph » Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:13 pm UTC

SecondTalon wrote:The basic idea is that any time you alter a material, you usually multiply its value by something or other.. I'm not 100% on the numbers. Rock worked into crafts at a base level is worth 10. Plants - whatever their base value is - modified into Thread which is then modified into Cloth which is then modified into an article of Clothing goes through Three modifications - and that's assuming you don't dye it. If you dye the thread/cloth, that's four modifications.
And then you can always sew a plant image onto it, making it even more valuable.


Adding decorations is an additive value boost: the decoration's quality is multiplied by the value of the material used for decoration, and then added to the (quality * material * object) value of the base object. Sewing on an image could double the value of the clothing item, but you could use the materials to make a separate item just as easily. That's not as dwarfy as selling commemorative T-shirts of the time you killed the dragon though:

Code: Select all

This is an exceptional pig tail cloth tunic.  It is made from exceptionally dyed pig-tail cloth.  On the tunic is a masterful image of dwarves and a dragon in exceptionally-dyed rope reed thread.  The dwarves are striking down the dragon.  The artwork relates to the slaughter of the dragon Silverscales the Value of Flames in the fall of 205.

That shirt could be worth a few hundred dwarfbucks, or over 1,000 if all the craftsdwarfship is of exceptional or masterwork quality. If you can import (very expensive) giant cave spider silk thread, it could be much much higher. Don't be surprised if your weaver also makes tunics with images of your fortress's artifacts: "I went to Boatmurdered and saw the epic mug Fanghandles and all I got was this lousy t-shirt"

Okita wrote:My food production is so high that I'm actually trading away food in addition to rock crafts. And I still haven't started my greenhouse yet which will give me even more food. Om nom nom.


Food is pretty excellent for making money, too. Each prepared item that goes into a meal is valued at (quality * material value), and then the meal gets its own quality modifier, so the end value of a stack of meals is dependent on

1) Source of the ingredients - rare animal meat, cheese, fine booze, or flour from whip vines can all increase value over mundane ingredients by almost an order of magnitude.
2) Quality of ingredients - booze and other manufactured foods have a quality multiplier tacked on
3) Stack size - plants grown by good farmers come up in stacks of five or six, and when those plants are milled or processed carefully they can get to stack sizes of 25 or more. Stack size of meals is closely related to the total stack size of the constituent ingredients.
4) Quality of preparation - a cook has to mince, dice, chop, or otherwise prepare each ingredient. If he has a high skill level you can see another order of magnitude boost in value here
5) Quality of cooking - the whole meal also gets a quality modifier.

So you could have griffon meat sauteed in high-end booze on a bed of quarry bush leaves and covered in dwarven cheese. The leaves pretty much guarantee a stack size of ~30. The prep-cook doesn't completely knock it out of the park, but does an exceptional job on most ingredients... and then the chef cooks it and makes a masterpiece. That hypothetical stack of rations could creep up to almost 50,000 dwarfbucks, which is usually the kind of value you see on artifacts. I routinely trade a single stack of masterwork meals (typically ~3,000 dwarfbucks) for an iron anvil and all of the raw food and booze that the first caravan brings. Because food is a completely renewable resource, my current fortress economy is that of a remote but heavily-defended drive-thru restaurant.

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Okita
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Okita » Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:32 pm UTC

Since glass is also renewable when you have magma, I was thinking of basing well...just about everything I can around glass produced things. Which makes my fort one of those Tourist Attraction Restaurants with a lot of those snowglobes in the front.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Vieto » Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:34 pm UTC

Okita wrote:Since glass is also renewable when you have magma, I was thinking of basing well...just about everything I can around glass produced things. Which makes my fort one of those Tourist Attraction Restaurants with a lot of those snowglobes in the front.


I was thinking Glass fountains and a Glass Palace (With it's own glass Palace). Dwarfs need Water in the middle of a desert with an aquifer (go figure).

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Jurph » Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:56 pm UTC

Okita wrote:Since glass is also renewable when you have magma, I was thinking of basing well...just about everything I can around glass produced things. Which makes my fort one of those Tourist Attraction Restaurants with a lot of those snowglobes in the front.


Yeah, as my fortress ages we go from the being an In-N-Out-(By-The-Skin-Of-Your-Teeth)-Burger to more of a Cracker Barrel economic model. Obsidian and glass are both renewable, and some specialty glass can be used to decorate your other crafts. Oooooh, shiny!

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Jessica » Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:58 pm UTC

I should play again... i guess.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Bakemaster » Wed Jan 14, 2009 7:44 pm UTC

Jurph wrote:Don't be surprised if your weaver also makes tunics with images of your fortress's artifacts: "I went to Boatmurdered and saw the epic mug Fanghandles and all I got was this lousy t-shirt"

Make it "I went to Boatmurdered and saw the epic mug Fanghandles and all I got was this Well-crafted Pig tail shirt" and it might even be worth wearing on an actual shirt.

How is Obsidian renewable? I thought it was a discovered stone like any other?
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby TaintedDeity » Wed Jan 14, 2009 7:52 pm UTC

Can't you make obsidian with water and magma?

Also, if I start playing DF again now, I should have gotten bored again before I start uni.
Sounds like a plan.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Phen » Wed Jan 14, 2009 8:00 pm UTC

TaintedDeity wrote:Can't you make obsidian with water and magma?

Also, if I start playing DF again now, I should have gotten bored again before I start uni.
Sounds like a plan.

You can! I did, with a two-laned aquaduct to ferry water back and forth. And I discovered how useful windmills are.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Okita » Wed Jan 14, 2009 8:24 pm UTC

Bakemaster wrote:
Jurph wrote:Don't be surprised if your weaver also makes tunics with images of your fortress's artifacts: "I went to Boatmurdered and saw the epic mug Fanghandles and all I got was this lousy t-shirt"

Make it "I went to Boatmurdered and saw the epic mug Fanghandles and all I got was this Well-crafted Pig tail shirt" and it might even be worth wearing on an actual shirt.

How is Obsidian renewable? I thought it was a discovered stone like any other?


Toady could totally make money selling DF t-shirts. I mean if threepanelsoul.com can do it, so can he.

I probably would buy a "Dwarf Canceled Eat: Too Insane" shirt. Maybe.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby RetSpline » Wed Jan 14, 2009 8:39 pm UTC

Jurph wrote:Food is pretty excellent for making money, too

This. In my old (well, current, I just haven't played in a while) game, my cook is pumping out masterwork lavish dwarven wine meals which, combined with a bin or two of clothing, can buy everything I need off of a caravan. Typically, I go for meats, GCS cloth/thread, dyes, food products (booze included), any good seeds I don't already have, all metals, and most stone. I haven't had to worry about a defense force for a while because the goblins have died out in the last 4 or so worlds I've generated.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Bakemaster » Wed Jan 14, 2009 11:18 pm UTC

My barracks are full of crap that isn't getting hauled away. Clothing, turtle shells and bones, blood. This stuff gets taken care of in other parts of the fortress, but for some reason not in the barracks?
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby InstinctSage » Thu Jan 15, 2009 12:11 am UTC

Okita wrote:Toady could totally make money selling DF t-shirts. I mean if threepanelsoul.com can do it, so can he.

I probably would buy a "Dwarf Canceled Eat: Too Insane" shirt. Maybe.

I love some of the random quotes that come up on the main page of the Wiki.
"Sibrek Fikuknish has been ecstatic recently. He had to eat a friend to survive recently. He had an exceptional meal recently."
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby korora » Thu Jan 15, 2009 1:07 am UTC

Bakemaster wrote:My barracks are full of crap that isn't getting hauled away. Clothing, turtle shells and bones, blood. This stuff gets taken care of in other parts of the fortress, but for some reason not in the barracks?

Sometimes when they wrestle they'll pull off socks and other clothing. There's a bug where they will never clean them up, and no other dwarves are allowed to move them because they belong to someone else. Not sure about the shells and bones, though.

It gets particularly annoying if they happen to drop a sock in a doorway, since it more or less permanently opens the door.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Okita » Thu Jan 15, 2009 1:43 am UTC

Possible quick-fix solution: Designate all those items to be dumped and then reclaim them after they get dumped.

Or I suppose you could just every once in a while, remove the barracks and then redesignate it as a barracks after it has been cleaned up.

I'm not sure if these would work but it's worth a shot.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Vieto » Thu Jan 15, 2009 2:53 am UTC

Alternative:

Catsplosion!!!

watch in 500x speed. Awesome.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby InstinctSage » Thu Jan 15, 2009 11:09 am UTC

I think I've messed up somehow. I killed a bunch of imps, and my dwarves started hauling the bodies away, but now my food stocks are boiling and my dining room is filled with smoke. It looks like its coming from nurse shark meat though. I can't find anything impish there, but two barrels of wine are boiling and anyone who tries to move the nurse shark meat falls unconscious and bleeds to death?
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Xaddak » Thu Jan 15, 2009 1:16 pm UTC

Someone touched something that is on fire. Your fortress is now doomed.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Yuri2356 » Thu Jan 15, 2009 1:28 pm UTC

InstinctSage wrote:I think I've messed up somehow. I killed a bunch of imps, and my dwarves started hauling the bodies away, but now my food stocks are boiling and my dining room is filled with smoke. It looks like its coming from nurse shark meat though. I can't find anything impish there, but two barrels of wine are boiling and anyone who tries to move the nurse shark meat falls unconscious and bleeds to death?

Fire imp anatomy is filled with fire and rage. Almost every part of them will burn constantly, even after death.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Jebobek » Thu Jan 15, 2009 3:48 pm UTC

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Jurph » Thu Jan 15, 2009 3:58 pm UTC

InstinctSage wrote:I think I've messed up somehow. I killed a bunch of imps, and my dwarves started hauling the bodies away, but now my food stocks are boiling and my dining room is filled with smoke. It looks like its coming from nurse shark meat though. I can't find anything impish there, but two barrels of wine are boiling and anyone who tries to move the nurse shark meat falls unconscious and bleeds to death?


No matter what you do, you will need to seal up that room. Lock the doors, build walls in front of them... whatever it takes. Write off any food or furniture therein. The next step depends on how much plumbing your fortress is using.

Plan A: dig out a border on the next floor up and drop the ceiling in on the room via lever.
Plan B: flood the room with water.

If you do Plan A carefully, you can convert the resulting "high bay" room into a luxurious two-story dining room (although your dwarves will get no benefit from the high ceiling). If you do Plan B, you can use the resulting muddy room for farming and other tasks.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Okita » Thu Jan 15, 2009 4:34 pm UTC

Also fires can't cross empty stockpiles. This is due to the vortex of space caused by an empty stockpile.

And it helps that you set said stockpile to not allow any items at all so dwarves don't try to put flammable things inside of it. And forbid traffic to that area.

Just uh.. don't follow this guy.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby InstinctSage » Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:03 am UTC

I abandoned the fortress. I could have saved it. I was going to forbid traffic and dig around, and I'd only lost about 2 dozen of my 80 dwarves. But meh. I like starting fresh, and I'm getting more and more into crazy wilderness builds. I started in one where I forgot to double check whether there were trees. 2 seasons in and nobody has any beds! But they're all happy. I'm just looking for bituminous coal now.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby korora » Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:54 am UTC

A note: It's impossible to completely forbid traffic without walls/locked doors for A* reasons (and will likely never be possible in DF for A* and gameplay reasons). The best you can do is make it really really expensive for the dwarves to path through there, but if they have, say, stockpile jobs that take them in there they will still go for it (it'll just take more cpu cycles for them to make up their minds about it).
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Phen » Wed Jan 28, 2009 11:12 pm UTC

Can anyone help me generating a good spot to build a new fortress? For some reason, every time I've tried now I got no goblin neighbors to fight with, and that's simply too boring. I've been going for sites with HFS, magma, river and a chasm/bottomless hole, flux when I can find it... But it is because I'm not close enough to their civs, maybe?
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby InstinctSage » Wed Jan 28, 2009 11:17 pm UTC

Without modding you'll just have to keep generating.

WITH modding you can up volcanism, increase the litter sizes of gobbos, and twerk some of the other worldgen settings to get more of what you want and less of what you don't.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Phen » Wed Jan 28, 2009 11:24 pm UTC

Well, I've tried tinkering with some of the advanced worldgen parameters, even copied some from the official forums, but even though they said all civs should be there, I still only get the dwarven.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby InstinctSage » Wed Jan 28, 2009 11:34 pm UTC

have you checked the legends to see what happened to the other civs? How/when are they dying out?
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby korora » Wed Jan 28, 2009 11:37 pm UTC

There's a good thread called "Worldgen Cookbook" on the official forums, but some of the seeds might not work any more if they're from older versions. Also, if you find a good site but it doesn't have the civs you want, you can regen using the same world seed but a different history seed.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Phen » Wed Jan 28, 2009 11:38 pm UTC

korora wrote:There's a good thread called "Worldgen Cookbook" on the official forums, but some of the seeds might not work any more if they're from older versions. Also, if you find a good site but it doesn't have the civs you want, you can regen using the same world seed but a different history seed.

I tried the newest one I could find, but still had no civs. And I don't know how to see if they die out... Is that in legends or something?
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby InstinctSage » Wed Jan 28, 2009 11:57 pm UTC

Yes, after you've generated the world, if you can't find any civs, go to legends mode and look up civilisations. See if they appear and check out what happened to them.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Vieto » Thu Jan 29, 2009 2:37 am UTC

I'm actually trying to find a world with all civs but Dwarves. I've found 1, but it doesn't have any particularity awesome sites (Though it has a few decent ones. Note to self: open magma pit + Imps + Wolves + forest + last 7 Dwarves in the world = epic fail.)

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Phen » Thu Jan 29, 2009 11:10 am UTC

Looks like they get killed by beasts (that becomes enemies of them) or get killed by gobbos.

Just to make sure, the neighboring civilizations SHOULD come up when pressing c from the get-go, right? 'cause now, even using the standart settings, I get no neighbors other than dwarves. :/

I've found a dozen fun start locations with the normal parameters, but still no neighbors. *sniff*

...

Now I went through legends and found lots of human civs. Why do they still not show up, then?
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In war, one should seek to take and hold the high ground. From there, the enemy's movements are clearly visible, and he will struggle just to reach you, let alone fight you. High orbit is the highest ground there is.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Yuri2356 » Thu Jan 29, 2009 12:58 pm UTC

They won't actually appear until you've met them in-game. Once their caravans drop by you should be fine.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Xaddak » Thu Jan 29, 2009 7:07 pm UTC

I'm playing again, and making a tower that goes from the bottom z-level to as high as it needs to. It is pretty rockin' so far.

So far, from just below the surface to the bottom layer:

Farm and food workshops
Workshop layer 1
Workshop layer 2
Workshop layer 3
Magma pool to fuel workshop layer 3
Dining hall
Party hall
Water pool for wells in the party hall
Nobles quarters layer 1
Nobles quarters layer 2
Nobles quarters layer 3
Standard housing layer 1
Standard housing layer 2
Standard housing layer 3
Standard housing layer 4

Next I need to build a barracks and military training area on the surface and maybe even extending to z+1, and then a layer or two of jail cells above that, and then I think the rest will be... I don't know what. I was going to have the crypt be off to the side of the tower. I'm also going to dig a 5-tile wide moat around the tower and have it go from the surface to the bottom, and then just link it to the river so it always stays full, and let the water pool layer just feed off of the moat.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby InstinctSage » Thu Jan 29, 2009 9:05 pm UTC

I gave up building my tower when the caravans kept claiming my site was inaccessible. Bollocks! I had the trade depot on ground level on a map with NO elevation differences and I had 3 wide entrances in each direction. :roll:

Plus it was boring once my 14 elite champions were ready. Entertaining for a while, since I'd accidentally conscripted 3 pregnant women who carried their babies on patrol, which led to about 6 goblin snatcher events a season (Apparently they're way more common if babies are outside your fort, sensibly so). Only trying to snatch a baby from a squad of 7 elite champions is a quick way to get torn limb from limb.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Random832 » Thu Jan 29, 2009 9:10 pm UTC

InstinctSage wrote:I gave up building my tower when the caravans kept claiming my site was inaccessible. Bollocks! I had the trade depot on ground level on a map with NO elevation differences and I had 3 wide entrances in each direction. :roll:


What about trees? Boulders?

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby InstinctSage » Thu Jan 29, 2009 9:13 pm UTC

Could have been, I guess. I was flooring the whole thing but I can't remember if there was a boulder or tree just on the outside of the entrance that could have done it.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby SecondTalon » Fri Jan 30, 2009 2:11 am UTC

After you build a depot, shift+d (that is, D instead of d) will lay out which squares are passable by a wagon and which squares are not. Verrrrrryyyy useful in figuring out what's in the way.
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korora
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Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 10:15 pm UTC

Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby korora » Fri Jan 30, 2009 2:15 am UTC

The easiest way to ensure you have caravan access is to build a road three wide from your entrance to one of the boundaries. Roads build faster and take fewer stone than floors. You can also put statues along the road with two spaces between them, which I hear will force caravans to take the road instead of a random spot on the edge of the map.

Ninja'd by ST, but we said different things so it's cool.
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Phen
Posts: 1184
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 8:50 pm UTC
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark

Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Phen » Sat Jan 31, 2009 5:12 pm UTC

I eventually met some goblins, yay. Now I just can't decide on a defence layout... I made a wall around my wagon and dug strait down because of the skeletal goats lurking in the mountains and eventually build upwards too, partly to clear my fortress of stone and to make a temporary dining hall until I can think up a suitably epic one. I got water AND a chasm for the first time, so making a waterfall and getting power should be MUCH easier... Now I just can't figure out what to actually build.
I'm a wizard. We know these things.

In war, one should seek to take and hold the high ground. From there, the enemy's movements are clearly visible, and he will struggle just to reach you, let alone fight you. High orbit is the highest ground there is.


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