You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

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Goldstein
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already

Postby Goldstein » Tue Nov 23, 2010 7:45 pm UTC

He obviously meant to post that in the Wagon Fortress thread.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already

Postby SecondTalon » Tue Nov 23, 2010 7:52 pm UTC

I'd only play that if you can caulk them and float them across the river. But then we're playing Oregon Fortress, and everyone's going to die of dysentery and insanity. Possibly both. Insane dysentery is a hell of a disease.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already

Postby Menacing Spike » Tue Nov 23, 2010 7:56 pm UTC

spupy wrote:
Menacing Spike wrote:I tried making a wagon civ.

In legends, they changed kings and generals every year. They also got pillaged repeatedly by goblins and dwarves.
Oh and "The defenders were lead by the wagon Ineth Luckstricken" sounds really really hilarious.
In fortress mode, my 7 peasant wagons scuttled at the first frame, leaving but a few logs. Settlement crumbled to it's end, etc.


I don't understand your post - what do you mean with "wagon civ"? Wagons instead of dwarves? WTF?


Yes, a civilization of wagons. How is that not clear?
edit: According to a bay12 forumer, the only way to prevend the scuttling into logs is to use... zombie wagons! ... ... wut
Last edited by Menacing Spike on Tue Nov 23, 2010 8:04 pm UTC, edited 2 times in total.

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Goldstein
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Don't bother with Wagon Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Goldstein » Tue Nov 23, 2010 8:00 pm UTC

It is a little unclear.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already

Postby Menacing Spike » Tue Nov 23, 2010 8:57 pm UTC

Undead wagon hero in adventure mode.

"Your equipement is ready blah blah blah ask your friends where to go blah blah..."
"You have been scuttled."

So being undead doesn't prevent the scuttling. Eh...

Next adventurer (wagon demigod *snicker*) is "average sized for a wagon".
Vision lost, ability to stand lost.
His front, his back, and his wheels are in good shape.
His features? "A rolling platform for carrying passagers and cargo".
No inventory.

And a soon as a step elapses... immediate scuttling.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already

Postby spupy » Tue Nov 23, 2010 9:44 pm UTC

Menacing Spike wrote:Undead wagon hero in adventure mode.

"Your equipement is ready blah blah blah ask your friends where to go blah blah..."
"You have been scuttled."

So being undead doesn't prevent the scuttling. Eh...

Next adventurer (wagon demigod *snicker*) is "average sized for a wagon".
Vision lost, ability to stand lost.
His front, his back, and his wheels are in good shape.
His features? "A rolling platform for carrying passagers and cargo".
No inventory.

And a soon as a step elapses... immediate scuttling.


What the hell is going on? Is this some mod? A new feature in 31.18? Why wagons exactly?
Also, to reiterate: wat?
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already

Postby SecondTalon » Tue Nov 23, 2010 10:04 pm UTC

It's not a new feature, it's not anything really special. You've been able to adjust the properties of the starting civilization for some time. Usually people package these up as Mods. This one simply replaces the playable characters from dwarves to wagons which the game treats as creatures. Which is why they can move.

The problem comes in because the game is probably checking for the animals to tow it, as that's how creature wagons work, and without the creatures to tow it, it scuttles on move. Which would explain why your starter wagon just sits there, while NPC wagons explode when you kill the ponies pulling it.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already

Postby Menacing Spike » Tue Nov 23, 2010 10:09 pm UTC

SecondTalon wrote:It's not a new feature, it's not anything really special. You've been able to adjust the properties of the starting civilization for some time. Usually people package these up as Mods. This one simply replaces the playable characters from dwarves to wagons which the game treats as creatures. Which is why they can move.

Yes.

The problem comes in because the game is probably checking for the animals to tow it, as that's how creature wagons work, and without the creatures to tow it, it scuttles on move. Which would explain why your starter wagon just sits there, while NPC wagons explode when you kill the ponies pulling it.


No, it doesn't have to move; even with the "wait one step" command, an adventurer wagon scuttles.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already

Postby Meteorswarm » Wed Nov 24, 2010 12:16 am UTC

Menacing Spike wrote:No, it doesn't have to move; even with the "wait one step" command, an adventurer wagon scuttles.


I think that the starter wagon isn't actually a wagon but is a special building.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already

Postby mrbaggins » Wed Nov 24, 2010 2:00 am UTC

Well, I'm about to get into this. Had a go many years ago, going to try again.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already

Postby Levi » Wed Nov 24, 2010 2:29 am UTC

Wait a minute... are you saying that wagons are listed in the creatures file in the raws?

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already

Postby SecondTalon » Wed Nov 24, 2010 4:32 am UTC

.. yes? How else would they exist? Wagons are treated as creatures by the game.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already

Postby Levi » Wed Nov 24, 2010 4:41 am UTC

Damn my preconceived notions about things their categories. I figured they were some sort of separate thing, but now that I think about it it does make sense that they would be treated as creatures. Now I'm thinking I should see if I can edit the megabeasts and make them multiple tiles across...

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already

Postby Ghavrel » Wed Nov 24, 2010 5:11 am UTC

Levi wrote:Damn my preconceived notions about things their categories. I figured they were some sort of separate thing, but now that I think about it it does make sense that they would be treated as creatures. Now I'm thinking I should see if I can edit the megabeasts and make them multiple tiles across...

I want to say that the multiple tile thing isn't contained in the raws. I vaguely recall a great deal of frustration about this.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already

Postby MarkH » Fri Nov 26, 2010 7:45 pm UTC

How do I start a new game without abandoning my fortress?

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already

Postby Josephine » Fri Nov 26, 2010 7:59 pm UTC

you can only have 1 fortress or adventurer per world. You can back up the save then abandon, but otherwise you should generate a new world.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already

Postby Technical Ben » Fri Nov 26, 2010 8:36 pm UTC

Am I a bad person for wanting a more streamlined game? Don't get me wrong, I like the gameplay, but it starts to get ridiculous when you realise it might get into "left shoe/right shoe" territory soon.
As in, it add no gameplay or simulation to be able to queue up a build of a right shoe, instead of a left one. When you can just queue "a pair of shoes" and have it take twice as long.

I tend to give up on most of the fortresses. For all this survival business, I've not even met my first monster or attack. It takes long enough just to put the influx of dwaven gate crashers somewhere. :/
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already

Postby Levi » Fri Nov 26, 2010 10:12 pm UTC

The ambushes start small around the middle to end of year two, IIRC. It depends on how much wealth your fortress has, so if you don't make a million crafts then it might be different for you. I think the longest I've gone without an attack is two years, maybe three, and the shortest around 3 seasons or a little longer. I usually am sieged in year four or five. With regard the left shoe/right shoe thing: I usually ignore clothing because my awesome dining hall means the dwarves don't care. For armor, I just make two and don't think about whether I got a right and left one.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already

Postby Josephine » Fri Nov 26, 2010 10:34 pm UTC

The ultimate goal is to be controlling the leaders of the fortress, a power-behind-the-throne kind of thing. In that case, you'd end up with "outfit this squad with that material" and the dwarves would handle the rest. You can look at the shoes, but you wouldn't have to manually order them made individually.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already

Postby Technical Ben » Fri Nov 26, 2010 11:50 pm UTC

nbonaparte wrote:The ultimate goal is to be controlling the leaders of the fortress, a power-behind-the-throne kind of thing. In that case, you'd end up with "outfit this squad with that material" and the dwarves would handle the rest. You can look at the shoes, but you wouldn't have to manually order them made individually.


Yep. A "build all these things" list would be great. Like a gah. Macro. Just drag and drop a pre configured construction list, and press repeat. Buttons like "find trees" would be so much easier/convenience then selecting each tree/area. Granted, the other way is also good. But there is just far too much micro management, when the code shows it can already do it itself.
I suppose it's because I like the "simulation" parts of games as much as the "creation/control" part. But if I leave a dwarf for more than a second he is likely to eat his own hand out of boredom.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already

Postby Levi » Sat Nov 27, 2010 1:04 am UTC

There is a manager screen under j-m. You won't be able to do things like tell dwarves to build a castle, but you can give out orders to do workshop tasks.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already

Postby Coin » Sat Nov 27, 2010 1:33 pm UTC

Yeah, selecting "Make me 20 right socks" and then "Make me 20 left socks" isn't too much trouble.
Besides, when it really matters is when your blood splattered, half-crazed dwarven berzerker comes out of a fight with an undead five headed titan with fire coming out it's ears, wearing only a sock, a pair of tattered spider silk trousers and a steel helmet that's when it matters that he's not just wearing a pair of socks!
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already

Postby spupy » Sat Nov 27, 2010 1:51 pm UTC

Coin wrote:Yeah, selecting "Make me 20 right socks" and then "Make me 20 left socks" isn't too much trouble.
Besides, when it really matters is when your blood splattered, half-crazed dwarven berzerker comes out of a fight with an undead five headed titan with fire coming out it's ears, wearing only a sock, a pair of tattered spider silk trousers and a steel helmet that's when it matters that he's not just wearing a pair of socks!


Wait, don't tell me that there is separate production for left and right items in the latest version?
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already

Postby Coin » Sat Nov 27, 2010 5:53 pm UTC

spupy wrote:
Coin wrote:Yeah, selecting "Make me 20 right socks" and then "Make me 20 left socks" isn't too much trouble.
Besides, when it really matters is when your blood splattered, half-crazed dwarven berzerker comes out of a fight with an undead five headed titan with fire coming out it's ears, wearing only a sock, a pair of tattered spider silk trousers and a steel helmet that's when it matters that he's not just wearing a pair of socks!


Wait, don't tell me that there is separate production for left and right items in the latest version?

Sorry, my mistake: There is not a separate production for left and right items.
I don't know how the left/right designation comes about but I know that an artifact glove I have was made as a right handed glove.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already

Postby Rakysh » Sat Nov 27, 2010 6:41 pm UTC

Most things get made in pairs; artefacts are weird.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already

Postby Josephine » Sat Nov 27, 2010 6:50 pm UTC

Artifact gloves are kind of interesting. Remind me of this guy.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already

Postby Technical Ben » Mon Nov 29, 2010 1:06 pm UTC

I'd only noticed them in the trade window/supplies window. Although a bit hyperbole I was pointing out how you can get lost down the rabbit hole if you are not careful.
I suppose that is why people want a GUI. Being able to move windows around or stack them, as in WOW or Eve Online, would help no end. Or drag and drop for Dwarfs to beds to assign quickly. The names are not even in alphabetical order. :/

[edit]
Officially given up on the game. Combat is broken (among other things. ;).
So you get a massive hoard attacking, and your dwarfs decide to run outside to get some water. Or that the arm that they lost is now refuse, so needs to be cleaned up. Then they all jump off a cliff because a cat got eaten. Or decide that the river looks the best place to get rocks from. :|
I'd probably be able to cope if it did not crash my computer everytime one of my traps actually activates.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already

Postby Wnderer » Mon Nov 29, 2010 8:44 pm UTC

Technical Ben wrote: Combat is broken (among other things. ;).

Not really. But I've given up goblin wars and build fortresses on islands because sieges seem to always lead to tantrum spirals.
Technical Ben wrote: So you get a massive hoard attacking, and your dwarfs decide to run outside to get some water. Or that the arm that they lost is now refuse, so needs to be cleaned up.
This can be avoided by forbidding outside refuse, death items, etc. But at least its funny and quick.
Technical Ben wrote: Then they all jump off a cliff because a cat got eaten.
Dwarf Tantrum is stupid and the worst part of the game. It's annoying to have a couple of dwarfs die, look over at Dwarf Therapist and see you have a few miserable dwarfs and realize the game is over. I've built the waterfalls, the legendary dining rooms, prisons etc. but always if there are more than two or three miserable dwarfs they will quickly expand to about ten. The number of miserable dwarfs will then stay around ten as miserable dwarfs die and create new miserable dwarfs. The fortress then takes a long annoying time to die.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already

Postby savanik » Mon Nov 29, 2010 9:36 pm UTC

I never bother with making new clothes for my dwarves, so they end up running around naked, like the Celts, except for that one guy wearing the Artifact Steel Left Sock, embroidered with pictures of dwarves lifting up the dwarves, menacing with onyx spikes with onyx rings.

I don't often have the Dwarf Tantrum Spiral of Death - I suspect this is mostly due to the fact that I run with heavy-handed population control. Start off with a max of 15 dwarves to get things going and all until I get everything built up. Only small goblin squads happen by that my one or two military dwarves rip to shreds. Only later does it get to where I'll open the floodgates and let 200 people in.

Heck, one of my favorite game styles is 'NO IMMIGRATION' which means you get your initial seven, and everybody else has to be raised from children. It's a fun challenge, and a lot more reasonable than dealing with than a flood of 50 dwarves in one wave because some guy made an artifact ring out of marble and cave spider silk. Hrm. Maybe I should just turn off artifacts. I do seem to run into a fair number of problems with them.

Right now my major gripe is that Stonesense and the like aren't compatible with .18 - at least Dwarf Therapist is!
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already

Postby SecondTalon » Mon Nov 29, 2010 9:58 pm UTC

Huh. Since I figured out the Mass Dining Hall, Meeting Area With Waterfall Action, and Super Awesome Cooks Making Super Awesome Food And Drink tricks, I've not had miserable dwarves. Even the dwarf who just lost her husband, five children, and two best friends. Because goddamn was that a good Roast.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already

Postby Okita » Mon Nov 29, 2010 10:32 pm UTC

SecondTalon wrote:Huh. Since I figured out the Mass Dining Hall, Meeting Area With Waterfall Action, and Super Awesome Cooks Making Super Awesome Food And Drink tricks, I've not had miserable dwarves. Even the dwarf who just lost her husband, five children, and two best friends. Because goddamn was that a good Roast.


Planning in advance really makes Dwarves less miserable than before with creating a planned waterfall etc.

Also you can get do a bit of triage by shifting the higher quality furniture to unhappy dwarves.

And remember, losing is fun!

I forget that a lot. Actually I still keep up to Dwarf Fortress and love it but haven't actually played the game in a long time... mostly because I spend more time planning out fortresses in my head than actually playing the game. I have problems.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already

Postby Ghavrel » Mon Nov 29, 2010 11:33 pm UTC

I've never had a tantrum spiral. Probably because the first order of business is to smooth the entire fortress and then set my now close-to-legendary engravers to work carving depictions of cats, cheese, and horrifying demons on every square inch of the walls and floors.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already

Postby EmptySet » Mon Nov 29, 2010 11:53 pm UTC

Okita wrote:Planning in advance really makes Dwarves less miserable than before with creating a planned waterfall etc.

Also you can get do a bit of triage by shifting the higher quality furniture to unhappy dwarves.


You should be able to order the expedition leader to hand out Dwarf of the Month awards or something. Or set up an actual dwarf therapist's workshop, with a comfy granite throne and ink blots.

But yeah, I haven't really found tantrum spirals to be an issue as long as you remember to hand out fancy furniture, engrave everything, and make sure you've got a bunch of different food and booze.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already

Postby Levi » Tue Nov 30, 2010 12:39 am UTC

I screwed up the well for my hospital. I took enough precautions that there wasn't any flooding, but now I have a useless 5x5 room full of water, plus a pump system that failed to fix it because I was trying to be lazy and did it wrong. I have a well now, but I also have a bunch of pipes that will be in the way if I want to expand :evil: Also they make things look ugly.

NEW DEVELOPMENTS: A full three quarters of my 20-dwarf military were wounded in their first ambush-defense. I think my hospital setup is working properly. Most of them are back on their feet now, but a couple have infected wounds so we'll see how that turns out. I am happy to report that there has only been one death as a result of hospitalization, and that was due to a tantruming dwarf starting a fist fight with one of the sleeping patients so is arguably not the hospital staff's fault.

EVEN NEWER DEVELOPMENTS: I think I ran into a bug. Just as my steel production was getting into gear, all of my smelters suddenly decided that the giant piles of wood and coal in front of them don't exist any more.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already

Postby mrbaggins » Sat Dec 11, 2010 7:00 am UTC

First serious fortress...

7 dwarves. Killed one learning how cave-ins work whilst clearing a roof for an aboveground/inside farm plot. Then I got 4 migrants. Kinda disappointing. Then 4 more... woopee. Then 5. Oh yay.

Then I got goddamned 24 of the bastards. Luckily I've got 400+ food stocks. I sure as hell don't have enough rooms for em though.

I haven't got ANY metal industry up yet (I have 3 anvils, charcoal and heaps of bituminous coal and iron ores though). I have no military, other than about 7 trained war dogs and some traps. I have 1 bit of leather (will slowly increase, as now my animal population is large and breeding) with a high master leatherworker migrant. I have a migrant with all the blacksmithing skills at level 8. I think it's time to designate some of these cheap slave labor dwarves some more experimental tasks.

So at least 10 of these new guys are going into the military. One has a bunch of decent fighting skills, and two are decent marksdwarves.

But I'm starting to run dangerously low on certain seeds... Not entirely sure why... I don't even let them cook plants at all anymore (Dwarven syrup roasts!) and still my seed stockpile is diminishing... Maybe a dwarf is eating them?

Hopefully next caravan brings heaps of cave seeds. I asked for some. I'm also harvesting every shrub I can lay midget hands on.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already

Postby Rakysh » Sat Dec 11, 2010 7:08 pm UTC

All your seeds are locked up in food- you only get the seed once it's eaten. As your stockpiles go down, your amount of seed will increase, no worries. If you're really about to run out, brew some stuff.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already

Postby SecondTalon » Mon Dec 13, 2010 7:19 am UTC

Doesn't cooking destroy the seeds, or did that get changed and I missed it?
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already

Postby Rakysh » Mon Dec 13, 2010 7:24 am UTC

Yeah, but you can get them back from raw plump helmets. He said he'd stopped cooking them, so basically he just has to wait/brew.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already

Postby Menacing Spike » Mon Dec 13, 2010 7:31 am UTC

SecondTalon wrote:Doesn't cooking destroy the seeds, or did that get changed and I missed it?

[redacted]
Last edited by Menacing Spike on Mon Dec 13, 2010 5:19 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already

Postby Ghavrel » Mon Dec 13, 2010 9:29 am UTC

Menacing Spike wrote:
SexyTalon wrote:Doesn't cooking destroy the seeds, or did that get changed and I missed it?


Cooking the seeds - yes, cooking the helmets - no.


Cooking helmets destroys seeds.
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