You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby SecondTalon » Fri Jun 20, 2008 4:15 pm UTC

The three year thing has never worked for me.. some come in superfast, some take six years to mature.

However, I've always needed the ground to be moistened first. Even in sand or clay or whatever, the ground has to have been muddied or turned into a greenhouse - That is, the above ground channeled out and bricked over with glass blocks so light still gets through. Of course, I tend to make my greenhouses where there was once a pool, so.. the ground around it gets muddied and usually turns into grass eventually.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Awia » Fri Jun 20, 2008 5:31 pm UTC

Aluminus wrote:Ok I've had enough of these animals.
I built an animal execution tower.


This is cruel, but oh so awesome, I need to try that.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Aluminus » Fri Jun 20, 2008 8:21 pm UTC

I think tower caps only grow underground but don't take my word for it.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Phen » Sat Jun 21, 2008 9:29 am UTC

I just made a tower-cap farm as well... But it's currently jjust a chamber with water in it, so I can't say anything yet.

In other news, I tried adventure mode... After wrestling a friggin' minotaur to DEATH with my drunk bodyguard, I decide to explore the caves a little more and run into a giant bat (I killed one of those on my way in with ease) which promtly bites me in the lung and kills me. ... ... What the fuck?
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Berengal » Sat Jun 21, 2008 11:27 am UTC

I like adventure mode. It's so fun to tear goblins limb from limb. It's also fun to fight all the horribly powerful monsters you see. Once, when I decided to assault a goblin fortress, I immediately encountered a demon. I tried to run away, but either the demon teleported/ran past me, or there was another demon that attacked me from the other side. Even though my blows sent regular goblins flying in a splatter of splat in a single hit, the few blows I managed to actually land on the demon just glanced away. It took some time killing me though, so I'd like to think I gave it a run for it's money.

There's also the time I encountered two giant cave spiders at the beginning of my adventure, and managed to kill both somehow after sacraficing a horde of drunks. I died in the process, but the fight with the last spider was epic. He tore my leg of just as I shot him through the heart. He then proceeded to eat various bodyparts of me until I bled to death. The very next thing he did was bleed to death as well. (I got lucky with the first spider and shot him through the heart with my first shot. He only managed to tear assunder two drunks before he died.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Phen » Sat Jun 21, 2008 12:32 pm UTC

I'm new to adventuring, but I thought I'd see what happened if I attacked the mayor after he had no more quests for me. I killed him and proceeded downstairs:
Spoiler:
Image
Apparantly, loam is pretty fucking dangerous


I'm not sure I can comprehend how awesome this game is.

EDIT: It's also just now I understand how dangerous flying iron bolts are.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby SecondTalon » Sat Jun 21, 2008 5:21 pm UTC

Phen wrote:In other news, I tried adventure mode... After wrestling a friggin' minotaur to DEATH with my drunk bodyguard, I decide to explore the caves a little more and run into a giant bat (I killed one of those on my way in with ease) which promtly bites me in the lung and kills me. ... ... What the fuck?

Phen wrote:EDIT: It's also just now I understand how dangerous flying iron bolts are.


Piercing Damage is harsh. And hardcore. Bypasses the Upper and Lower body and basically just does straight up organ damage.

Throwing is also overpowered. If you're sneaking, you can throw and the enemy has no idea where it came from. Only bad thing is that if you knock someone down, continuing to throw at them is useless, as you won't hit.

That's when you wait for them to stand up and hit them again, until they go unconscious. Then you sneak over and break their necks.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby 4=5 » Sat Jun 21, 2008 5:38 pm UTC

SecondTalon wrote:The three year thing has never worked for me.. some come in superfast, some take six years to mature.

However, I've always needed the ground to be moistened first. Even in sand or clay or whatever, the ground has to have been muddied or turned into a greenhouse That is, the above ground channeled out and bricked over with glass blocks so light still gets through. Of course, I tend to make my greenhouses where there was once a pool, so.. the ground around it gets muddied and usually turns into grass eventually.

with mine I just dug into sand and started planting
it worked perfectly

tower caps may be diffrent

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Xaddak » Sat Jun 21, 2008 5:52 pm UTC

Okay, so I tried adventure mode.

*sets skills and starts game*

*tries to walk around*

LAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAG. It was alternating between 100+ FPS, and then 1-3 FPS every time I tried to move, not to mention that it would take a few seconds for the game to figure out I had pushed a key, during which it was more or less locked up. Um, yeah. That is what we call "unplayable".
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby SecondTalon » Sat Jun 21, 2008 6:12 pm UTC

4=5 wrote:tower caps may be diffrent

.... we're talking about Tower Caps. What are you talking about?

Anyway, I should mention that on my greenhouse areas where the ground was wet, the tower caps only come in on the subterranean parts, not the parts under the glass.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Phen » Sat Jun 21, 2008 6:15 pm UTC

I think he's talking about normal farming...

Tower-Caps are the only trees to grow underground, as far as I know.
I'm a wizard. We know these things.

In war, one should seek to take and hold the high ground. From there, the enemy's movements are clearly visible, and he will struggle just to reach you, let alone fight you. High orbit is the highest ground there is.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby AKAnotu » Sat Jun 21, 2008 6:23 pm UTC

Xaddak wrote:Okay, so I tried adventure mode.

*sets skills and starts game*

*tries to walk around*

LAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAG. It was alternating between 100+ FPS, and then 1-3 FPS every time I tried to move, not to mention that it would take a few seconds for the game to figure out I had pushed a key, during which it was more or less locked up. Um, yeah. That is what we call "unplayable".

The game uses 3-d raytracing to figure out your line of sight. also, the delay is partly because of your agility. anything with higher agility gets to move/act before you.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Berengal » Sat Jun 21, 2008 8:18 pm UTC

Yeah, adventure mode can be slow at times. It's playable, but not much more on my machine. The initial hang lasts about a second, maybe two at times, and it plays okay from there on unless I hold a move button down in certain situations, at which point it hangs again.

My brother and I have started a small project building a similar environment, mainly because I feel DF can be too slow at times and that it's either horribly subtimized* or that it's too peculiar about it's results (doesn't fake it's results when it's viable to do so). It's not meant to be a contender for DF in any way (yet :P), just a way for us to learn more about D, openGL and teamwork, and also provide me with a basis for a rogue-like I've got in mind, but it could possibly be extended to something DF-like (I wish to make games, and Dungeon Keeper is the main inspiration).


*the opposite of optimized. I wish it's a real word. If not, I define it as the quality of being worse than the naive implementation.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Aluminus » Sun Jun 22, 2008 12:16 am UTC

In adventure mode, I tried exploring my first fortress (which failed spectacularly). It took me ten tries before I found the place, and then the last living (berserk) dwarf strangled me to death.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Benitosimies » Sun Jun 22, 2008 4:20 am UTC

Aluminus wrote:In adventure mode, I tried exploring my first fortress (which failed spectacularly). It took me ten tries before I found the place, and then the last living (berserk) dwarf strangled me to death.


Screaming "THIS IS A DWARF FORTRESS! THIS IS A DWARF! FORTRESSSSS!"?

I could see that.

In other news, gem windows don't friggin break. I could do a similar experiment with green and clear glass windows now that I'm doing a glass thing and I'm no longer as burned out on this game.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Aluminus » Mon Jun 23, 2008 12:49 am UTC

A dragon showed up and set fire to a hammerdwarf who then proceded to run around while on fire leaving a nice streak of ash and smoldering debris in his wake.
Oh, and it looks like the hammerdwarf ignited a macedwarf who then ignited a speardwarf who then ignited a champion, but not before the champion wrestled the dragon into several pieces.
Now they've all bled to death.
So that's a total of ten dead. (Not counting the cow crushed by the drawbridge. Sorry, cow.)
Would you believe there are still 16 champions left?
Now I just have to wait for the corpse-fires to die down.
EDIT: How is it possible for something to be on fire and rot at the same time?
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Vaniver » Mon Jun 23, 2008 2:08 am UTC

Aluminus wrote:EDIT: How is it possible for something to be on fire and rot at the same time?
Fireproof maggots?
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Numquam » Mon Jun 23, 2008 2:45 am UTC

Whoever got the addy mechanism should put it in a lava death chamber for nobles.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Aluminus » Tue Jun 24, 2008 12:03 am UTC

Dwarven Economy
Right now, it's a pain in the neck, but this thread over at the Bay12 forums has a host of awesome ideas to make it better.
Suggestions:
-Ability to set priorities on tasks. Dwarves will tend to do jobs that pay more. Rich dwarves will demand goods like food, wine, clothing and furniture; this creates jobs for dwarves who aren't doing much.
-The player manages a treasury and plays the role of 'dwarven government' which could give contracts for big construction projects (that huge road from one end of the map to the other, the wall and moat around the entrance, etc). If the government needs armor for the military, a few intrepid dwarves would set up workshops and begin supplying.
-Poor dwarves wouldn't starve, because even hauling jobs would still pay. Alternatively, a welfare system could be set up. Hungry and thirsty dwarves would drive up the price of food and wine, encouraging production to speed up. This leads to intelligent price-setting. Those nobles don't know anything about economics anyway, so let the dwarves set the prices.
-Inflation could occur if the value of the fortress doesn't match the number of 'dwarf dollars' in circulation (or in the treasury). This could generate an 'unsatisfied with the fortress economy' thought.
-Dwarves should want to do and buy things that make them happy. Happy thoughts would need a monetary value (they already have an integer 'happiness' value hard-coded, so this is ready to be set up).
-The dwarves who are actually making things in the fortress should have a role in setting their value. Working in a cluttered workshop would not only be inefficient and time-consuming, it would also make those things more expensive to produce.
-Story elements. Can you imagine reading the legends of dwarves who went rags to riches and back again? Of the gold-plated fortress that went bankrupt in 875?
-Economy modding. Want to add the [SOCIALIST] tag to the goblins? See what happens. How about assigning the elves as [ANARCHOCAPITALIST] I'm sure they'd looooove that.
Problems
The fun thing about DF right now is that the fate of the fortress is in your hands. If you don't give out enough jobs, then dwarves start to go nuts. Of course (our) government doesn't work like that. It's impossible to assign everybody individual jobs. With 175 dwarves running around, unless you have foreman.exe you are sunk. But the economy shouldn't be an AI system replacing the player. It's nice for the dwarves to do things on their own; how much control is too much or not enough?
DF does not need a market economy. A control-model economy is optimal. That way, the player (government) can mandate the construction and production of goods, because 'it's for their own good'. As Erk wrote: Fascism for all!
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Aluminus » Tue Jun 24, 2008 3:58 am UTC

(Unrelated)
I found out where your stuff goes when the goblins steal it.
Spoiler:
They stash it on the roof!
treasure_at_the_castle_of_hate.PNG
They leave it out in the rain?
treasure_at_the_castle_of_hate.PNG (67.24 KiB) Viewed 5284 times
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Upsilon » Tue Jun 24, 2008 4:02 am UTC

Is it possible to mine underneath a goblin fortress and collapse it in much the same way ST described collapsing your own fortress? Because that would be interesting...
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby SecondTalon » Tue Jun 24, 2008 4:15 am UTC

Yes.

Though I haven't done it myself. I did, however, seal off the entrance with a quickly built wall and flooded the place. Ended up with a few (very wet) goblins running around on the roof and a ton of dead goblins floating beneath. Whole thing took a while to drain out, though.. but I did build a couple of pits right by the door so that the heavy things (ie - Stuff, goblin bodies, weapons, etc) would get caught while the water flooded out.

That was fun.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Aluminus » Tue Jun 24, 2008 4:20 am UTC

Ninja'd succinctly by SecondTalon. Here's a movie that shows you how.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby FACM » Tue Jun 24, 2008 12:19 pm UTC

I collapsed a human castle, and about half the town surrounding it, once. It makes me wish dwarves were smarter about which tiles to channel out. They have a bad habit of digging a circle around themselves if you give them more than 1 row/column of stuff to dig out.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby hendusoone » Tue Jun 24, 2008 4:16 pm UTC

I downloaded this yesterday, and tried to play a bit before bed last night. Wow, confusing stuff. I'll have to read more of the tutorials/documentation/wiki.

I'm going to assume it will be totally worth it.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Xaddak » Tue Jun 24, 2008 4:30 pm UTC

hendusoone wrote:I downloaded this yesterday, and tried to play a bit before bed last night. Wow, confusing stuff. I'll have to read more of the tutorials/documentation/wiki.

I'm going to assume it will be totally worth it.


Very yes.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby SecondTalon » Tue Jun 24, 2008 5:55 pm UTC

hendusoone wrote:I'm going to assume it will be totally worth it.

Your life will be consumed by smiling faces, angry g figures assaulting your homestead, and an extreme overabundance of c 's running around your fort, killing vermin.

And the occasional superheroic blue or purple @. But mostly bitchy purple, gold, and grey @ making your life miserable.

All of this is assuming a bronze C, a green D, or a green H doesn't eat everyone first. Or that you let the & out of the depths.


Come back in a month and re-read this post, as for right now it's gibberish to you.. but in a month, you'll be all "Damn straight those & are fucking assholes. Fuck them!"
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Aluminus » Tue Jun 24, 2008 6:23 pm UTC

I'm not going back to the default tileset. No way.
Also, In adventurer mode, I'm wearing 10 shields. It's awesome.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Xaddak » Tue Jun 24, 2008 7:36 pm UTC

Like somebody else said: I don't understand how people use those other tilesets. They're a blurry mess of garbage. The default tileset is clean, sharp, and for anybody who has ever played a MUD, easy to adjust to, and not terribly difficult for those who haven't. I feel like I'm in the Matrix. "I don't see code anymore, man..."
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Berengal » Tue Jun 24, 2008 8:18 pm UTC

Xaddak wrote:Like somebody else said: I don't understand how people use those other tilesets. They're a blurry mess of garbage. The default tileset is clean, sharp, and for anybody who has ever played a MUD, easy to adjust to, and not terribly difficult for those who haven't. I feel like I'm in the Matrix. "I don't see code anymore, man..."

That goes for all the tilesets, basically. To me, I don't even notice the tileset someone's using anymore. It's like reading english written in the cyrillic alphabeth; no difference from reading it in latin (if you know both, obviously, which I do).
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Phen » Tue Jun 24, 2008 8:21 pm UTC

I'm using tilesets, too. I don't think I'd mind going back that much, though, but it's just nice...

I introduced someone to the game a few weeks ago... It consumed him totally (Not very good here, when it's time for exams...). He told me one night he forgot to sleep when playing the game, so he just played it all night untill the next evening. He told me he quit the game, because it was taking too much of his time and too little a challenge.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Aluminus » Tue Jun 24, 2008 10:49 pm UTC

I recommend the high density design.
Image
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Vaniver » Tue Jun 24, 2008 10:58 pm UTC

Aluminus wrote:I recommend the high density design.
I already see a lot of suboptimal choices. I'll upload something superior when I get back.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Berengal » Tue Jun 24, 2008 11:34 pm UTC

Meteorswarm wrote:I made a fractal cube that was something like 7x7x7 before, and held 256, but it was a pita to assign

I'll start now, but I won't make bedrooms for a while, so it's ok

Also, rooms should be nine squares or more, please

What?! That's room enough for three families! A KING would be THRILLED to live in such luxury!
Or I'm just hoarding space...
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Aluminus » Tue Jun 24, 2008 11:50 pm UTC

Dwarves get three-tile rooms.
One tile for the bed.
One tile for the coffer.
One tile because we're feeling generous.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Vaniver » Wed Jun 25, 2008 1:21 am UTC

Image
You've got vertical space. Use it. This version fits 32 per floor, but it's easy to scale up to whatever you need (at 32 a floor, you need 6 floors to be fine with a normal pop cap and nobles; at 48 a floor, you only need 4) by lengthening the radiating hallways.
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Xaddak
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Xaddak » Wed Jun 25, 2008 2:10 am UTC

http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index. ... oom_design

Scroll down to THLawrence's Living Pods.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Vaniver » Wed Jun 25, 2008 2:47 am UTC

Xaddak wrote:http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Bedroom_design

Scroll down to THLawrence's Living Pods.
I dislike that he's only got single-wide hallways for everyone, but that's generally not too much of a problem. I also just like having a central stairway, but pods four or five levels deep with a giant dining room on top is a pretty nice way to make a fortress.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Aluminus » Wed Jun 25, 2008 3:14 am UTC

I tend to dedicate one and only one floor to bedrooms, using the other levels for prospecting, or statue gardens or mausoleums. Dwarves have to walk a little further to get to the staircase from the outside ring of bedrooms, but it's usually not such a big deal.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Xaddak » Wed Jun 25, 2008 3:40 am UTC

Vaniver wrote:
Xaddak wrote:http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Bedroom_design

Scroll down to THLawrence's Living Pods.
I dislike that he's only got single-wide hallways for everyone, but that's generally not too much of a problem. I also just like having a central stairway, but pods four or five levels deep with a giant dining room on top is a pretty nice way to make a fortress.


I had problems with that at first too, but once you get to used to it, it is fantastic.

And if you use 3x3s, they have room for a bed, coffer, AND cabinet.
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