You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

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Yuri2356
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Yuri2356 » Tue Oct 21, 2008 1:00 pm UTC

Random832 wrote:
Yuri2356 wrote:
Random832 wrote:How the f am I supposed to make things out of sterling silver? stupid mayor

3 Silver + 1 copper, in Ore or bar form.


Right, but I have neither. (incidentally, I heard somewhere that Galena counts as silver ore for this even though it's only a 20% chance if you smelt it straight-up)

Yeah, Galena and Tetrahedrite can both count as Silver Ore when making alloys. (This means you can smelt 1 tetra into two Billon, netting you material worth 12 for an ore normally worth an average of 4.)

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Thadlerian » Tue Oct 21, 2008 1:11 pm UTC

Random832 wrote:(incidentally, I heard somewhere that Galena counts as silver ore for this even though it's only a 20% chance if you smelt it straight-up)

Yeah, I kept extracting and smelting Galena large-scale to make my king a throne room of lead, and I just couldn't comprehend how I'd suddenly ended up with 200 silver bars.

Other news: My previously mentioned Elf Kill-o-Matic functions wonderfully. I've rid the world of nearly two dozen pointy-eared swindlers, including their diplomat (boy, was he hard to kill - ran like a maniac). I've also used it effectively for taking out goblin ambushers. And a number of my own, incidentally. Oh well, accidents do happen.

Especially to hammerers. Somehow.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby drunken » Tue Oct 21, 2008 2:07 pm UTC

God help me, the the DF forums have been up and down (mostly down) for too long, I can't bear it.

Also:
Yuri2356 wrote:
Phen wrote:I'm trying to figure how to use my lava, myself. No bauxite, unfortunately...

Well, if you want to use it offensively all You need is some Nickel/Iron pumps and a decent drainage system in place.


Pumps can be made of anything to pump magma, it is a bug/exploit I believe. I always use nickel or steel just to help my own sense of realism but you can make them out of wood and copper. Also if you have a magma proof floodgate with a non magma proof mechanism: If the gate is closed when the magma touches it nothing will be damaged. If the magma touches the gate when it is open the mechanism will burn off and you will not be able to close it again.
***This post is my own opinion and no claim is being made that it is in any way scientific nor intended to be construed as such by any reader***

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Xaddak » Tue Oct 21, 2008 2:30 pm UTC

People keep mentioning it, is nickel magma proof?
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Yuri2356 » Tue Oct 21, 2008 2:37 pm UTC

Yes. Both Nickel and Nickel-silver (2Ni + Cu + Sn) are magma proof.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby SecondTalon » Tue Oct 21, 2008 2:53 pm UTC

Huh.. for some reason I was thinking it was only Adamantine, Steel, and Bauxite that were magma proof.

Oh, and imp bones.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Xaddak » Tue Oct 21, 2008 2:56 pm UTC

Isn't iron magma proof too?

Are imp bones seriously magma proof, or are you joking?
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Random832 » Tue Oct 21, 2008 3:47 pm UTC

drunken wrote:God help me, the the DF forums have been up and down (mostly down) for too long, I can't bear it.

Also:
Yuri2356 wrote:
Phen wrote:I'm trying to figure how to use my lava, myself. No bauxite, unfortunately...

Well, if you want to use it offensively all You need is some Nickel/Iron pumps and a decent drainage system in place.


Pumps can be made of anything to pump magma, it is a bug/exploit I believe. I always use nickel or steel just to help my own sense of realism but you can make them out of wood and copper. Also if you have a magma proof floodgate with a non magma proof mechanism: If the gate is closed when the magma touches it nothing will be damaged. If the magma touches the gate when it is open the mechanism will burn off and you will not be able to close it again.


Which is annoying because there's no bauxite on most maps that have magma. It should really allow making mechanisms out of metal.

SecondTalon wrote:Huh.. for some reason I was thinking it was only Adamantine, Steel, and Bauxite that were magma proof.

Oh, and imp bones.


From the raws, the list of materials (bones aren't in matgloss, so I'll take your word on imp bones) that have a melting point higher than magma's temperature (which, for the record, is 12568 [2,600°F/1,427°C] - I don't know how that was determined; probably through experimentation with modded materials to see what could take it and what couldn't): nickel, nickel silver, steel, iron, platinum (NOT native platinum nuggets), bauxite, adamantine, raw adamantine - of those, only bauxite and raw adamantine are stones (suitable for mechanisms), the rest are metals. Notably, native platinum nuggets cannot be used for this, despite being usable as a stone generally; its melting point is not defined.

Technical details on what magma will and won't melt: furniture-wise, it will melt things it is on the same tile as. So, it's on the same tile as a floodgate and its mechanism when it passes through the floodgate, so it'll melt whatever non-magma-safe items are there. But, a screw pump operates by teleporting fluid from the "source" square to the "destination" square; no fluid actually passes through the pump itself. So the pump can be made of wood.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Xaddak » Tue Oct 21, 2008 6:47 pm UTC

I just started a fortress with the group name, "The Cudgel of Clarity". Translation? "Dwarven Cluebat".
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby SecondTalon » Tue Oct 21, 2008 6:50 pm UTC

Xaddak wrote:Isn't iron magma proof too?

Are imp bones seriously magma proof, or are you joking?

Well, a bunch of dwarves and imps got into a fight which resulted in all of them falling into the magma below. The imp bones were all that remained. That was.. at least four years ago.
Spoiler:
bones.JPG
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Phen » Tue Oct 21, 2008 7:14 pm UTC

On a slightly different topic, has anyone ever used their fortress/royal guard for anything? For me, all they ever do is just train, eat and sleep. Waste of manpower.
I've decided not to make any for my new fort.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Random832 » Tue Oct 21, 2008 7:15 pm UTC

SecondTalon wrote:
Xaddak wrote:Isn't iron magma proof too?

Are imp bones seriously magma proof, or are you joking?

Well, a bunch of dwarves and imps got into a fight which resulted in all of them falling into the magma below. The imp bones were all that remained. That was.. at least four years ago.
Spoiler:
bones.JPG


I got around to looking it up in the raws - [BONE_HEATDAM_POINT:14000] - which is 4,032°F (2,222°C), well above the temperature of magma.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby SecondTalon » Tue Oct 21, 2008 7:17 pm UTC

Phen wrote:On a slightly different topic, has anyone ever used their fortress/royal guard for anything? For me, all they ever do is just train, eat and sleep. Waste of manpower.
I've decided not to make any for my new fort.

For when mandates aren't met, they're useful for tying people to the justice chains so the Hammerer doesn't go apeshit and kill them. I say chains, because tied to chains the prisoners seem to get regular meals. In cages, it appears they are forgotten about until they die. Also, when tied to chains, they can be cheered up by things (Like a lovely waterfall, for example. So make your prison by the waterfall is what I'm saying)

Also, if they're all wrestlers, they make excellent sparring partners for your military. Armed with crossbows, they make excellent Berserker stoppers, if you have an inkling that may become an issue.

So, yes, I use them.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby annals » Tue Oct 21, 2008 7:59 pm UTC

drunken wrote:Pumps can be made of anything to pump magma

WRONG. So, so wrong. I can still hear the screams...

Unless you were referring to the block part of the pump. In that case, yeah.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Yuri2356 » Tue Oct 21, 2008 8:02 pm UTC

SecondTalon wrote:I say chains, because tied to chains the prisoners seem to get regular meals. In cages, it appears they are forgotten about until they die. Also, when tied to chains, they can be cheered up by things (Like a lovely waterfall, for example. So make your prison by the waterfall is what I'm saying)

You can also give them access to a bed and booze-pile, to make them that much more comfortable.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Mo0man » Tue Oct 21, 2008 8:35 pm UTC

I'VE TAMED A DRAGON! However, I worry about letting it out of its cage
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby SecondTalon » Tue Oct 21, 2008 8:49 pm UTC

Mo0man wrote:I'VE TAMED A DRAGON! However, I worry about letting it out of its cage

It's been a while (pre 40x) since I checked the changes, but last I knew - if the dragon killed anyone, don't let it out of it's cage. If the dragon did not kill anyone or anything, it's fine.

I honestly am not 100% on what'll happen if the dragon killed an animal.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Random832 » Tue Oct 21, 2008 9:59 pm UTC

annals wrote:
drunken wrote:Pumps can be made of anything to pump magma

WRONG. So, so wrong. I can still hear the screams...

Unless you were referring to the block part of the pump. In that case, yeah.


As long as the pump part isn't flooded, it shouldn't burn up
e.g. you want

Code: Select all


# PP~
~~###

not

#~PP~
~~###


If you let the pump output flow around and cover the input part of the pump, it'll burn up (I haven't tried it, but it's what makes sense from the principles I know) Though I'm not sure what you mean by "can still hear the screams" - what casualties could a pump failure have possibly caused?

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Soralin » Tue Oct 21, 2008 11:06 pm UTC

drunken wrote:Pumps can be made of anything to pump magma, it is a bug/exploit I believe. I always use nickel or steel just to help my own sense of realism but you can make them out of wood and copper. Also if you have a magma proof floodgate with a non magma proof mechanism: If the gate is closed when the magma touches it nothing will be damaged. If the magma touches the gate when it is open the mechanism will burn off and you will not be able to close it again.


Yeah, currently constructions are basically indestructible, and the part of the pump that you can't walk through counts as a construction. And it currently doesn't treat the magma as actually going through the device, just disappearing from one side and appearing on the other. If the magma gets onto the other part of the pump though I think it might destroy it. You can use this for some absurdities currently, like making a construction out of wood, or ice even, and pouring magma through it without damage.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby drunken » Tue Oct 21, 2008 11:09 pm UTC

Random832 wrote: what casualties could a pump failure have possibly caused?


lol. well theres magma perma flood of the entire fortress...
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Random832 » Wed Oct 22, 2008 2:27 am UTC

drunken wrote:
Random832 wrote: what casualties could a pump failure have possibly caused?


lol. well theres magma perma flood of the entire fortress...


How the hell could a _pump_ failing cause that? I'm really having trouble imagining it.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Yuri2356 » Wed Oct 22, 2008 2:48 am UTC

Then you're not thinking Dwarven enough.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Random832 » Wed Oct 22, 2008 4:50 am UTC

Yuri2356 wrote:Then you're not thinking Dwarven enough.


No, seriously. A pump moves fluid to places it's not. A pump failing cannot cause fluid to move anywhere it could not already reach.

Seriously, could you spell it out for me? Maybe draw a diagram?

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Azrael001 » Wed Oct 22, 2008 4:51 am UTC

Maybe one fails when others don't. magma is flooded into one part of the fortress, but not out again...
23111

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby annals » Wed Oct 22, 2008 9:13 am UTC

Random832 wrote: what casualties could a pump failure have possibly caused?


Well, I was curious whether a sand floor would become a glass floor after magma flowed over it, you see, so I was going to pump magma into a sand pit, let it sit for a bit, then pump it back out again (this was done with a slapdash embark, not an established fortress). I can't remember exactly how I set it up, so maybe my walls weren't tight enough or something, but the minute magma started flowing through the pump, it...exploded. Instant death for one or two unlucky dwarves, the rest got out with only their psyches damaged. I managed to finish the experiment, despite occasional tantrums, and consider the sacrifices insignificant in the face of knowledge gained for dwarf-kind.

Ha!! Ahahahaha!!!!! Ha*hem*. Excuse me.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Random832 » Wed Oct 22, 2008 12:23 pm UTC

Ah. I didn't take the possibility of the pump _exploding_ into account - I assumed it would have just burned away.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Xaddak » Wed Oct 22, 2008 12:30 pm UTC

annals wrote:
Random832 wrote: what casualties could a pump failure have possibly caused?


Well, I was curious whether a sand floor would become a glass floor after magma flowed over it, you see, so I was going to pump magma into a sand pit, let it sit for a bit, then pump it back out again (this was done with a slapdash embark, not an established fortress). I can't remember exactly how I set it up, so maybe my walls weren't tight enough or something, but the minute magma started flowing through the pump, it...exploded. Instant death for one or two unlucky dwarves, the rest got out with only their psyches damaged. I managed to finish the experiment, despite occasional tantrums, and consider the sacrifices insignificant in the face of knowledge gained for dwarf-kind.

Ha!! Ahahahaha!!!!! Ha*hem*. Excuse me.


So did it work?
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby SecondTalon » Wed Oct 22, 2008 6:38 pm UTC

A fortress of mine using the strategy Vaniver suggested a while back of making Up/Down staircases whenever possible.

Some gibberish got on the map, mostly visible at the 15th level. No idea what happened there.

Though a ton of the map is hollowed out, there's really very little going on. 14/13 are the busiest layers, what with the stockpiles being on 14 and most of the workshops on 13. 12 just has the living tower and food stockpiles on the left/bottom of the map (and a tree farm on the right bottom), 11 is more of the living tower, and the magma work area/garbage dump. 10-8 are just the living tower, with a small tree-farm on 9 and the animal pit on 9/8. 7 has the Royal Quarters, and 6 has the Barracks... as well as more of the Living Tower.

So, though it's stretched out, it's not really that large of a place.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Thendash » Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:42 pm UTC

The only thing I can think of that's bad about that design is if a dwarf gets pushed back during a fight in the halls, then he's gonna be screwed because he's going to fall all the way to the bottom.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Yuri2356 » Thu Oct 23, 2008 12:17 am UTC

Thus, floor hatches.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Random832 » Thu Oct 23, 2008 2:09 pm UTC

Skofo wrote:A roguelike with no Linux support?

HA HA, no thank you.


Apparently to get the mac version written, all that was needed was for Kobold Quest (which IIRC has the source available) to be ported; someone on the Penny Arcade forums did it and now there's a mac version of DF.

So... yeah.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby 4=5 » Thu Oct 23, 2008 2:27 pm UTC

This guyis trying to figure out how to commercially hunt mermaids. The current plan is a giant killing ground idea. http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=25967.0

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby annals » Thu Oct 23, 2008 2:36 pm UTC

Xaddak wrote:
annals wrote:
Random832 wrote: what casualties could a pump failure have possibly caused?


I was curious whether a sand floor would become a glass floor after magma flowed over it


So did it work?


No. :(
And the tiny text wasn't that tiny....

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Xaddak » Thu Oct 23, 2008 2:39 pm UTC

annals wrote:
Xaddak wrote:
annals wrote:
Random832 wrote: what casualties could a pump failure have possibly caused?


I was curious whether a sand floor would become a glass floor after magma flowed over it


So did it work?


No. :(
And the tiny text wasn't that tiny....


Your tiny text was just laughter, not a yes or no...
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby annals » Thu Oct 23, 2008 2:51 pm UTC

Xaddak wrote:Your tiny text was just laughter, not a yes or no...


Yeah, sorry, that bit was addressed to anonymod who LTB'd it.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Xaddak » Thu Oct 23, 2008 6:11 pm UTC

I modified my raws so the only stone layers are limestone, chalk, marble, and obsidian. I also modified hematite and limonite to appear in clusters instead of veins.

The bottom several layers of my current map are "rock". Nothing specific. Just "rock". Value 0, weight 14466 (just over 18x normal stone weight). I am amused and confused. Shouldn't it have made the lower layers out of one of the four I left to it?
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Yuri2356 » Thu Oct 23, 2008 6:16 pm UTC

There are probably constraints on where those layers can actually form, leaving the game with nothing to draw from.

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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Xaddak » Thu Oct 23, 2008 6:17 pm UTC

True, but annoying.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Awia » Thu Oct 23, 2008 6:20 pm UTC

What do I do with a lone art_image-10.dat file when I download a save, I can't for the life of me get it to work.
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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Postby Xaddak » Fri Oct 24, 2008 1:59 am UTC

Who wants to guess why my dwarves won't drink out of the well?
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