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Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 10:32 pm UTC
by Phen
Still havn't read about the nist blahblah, yet. I'm frustrated at how my champions die SO easily to bowmen, however, that I've just stop letting them out, maybe having them run up to any retreating enemies after they've been pelted by archers and the traps...

Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 10:49 pm UTC
by Yuri2356
Phen wrote:I'm still going with a fortress in the year 1065.
Unfortunately, it's only version 38-something, so I havn't got the new tools for making big constructions, which hampers my enthusiasm a bit... Still, I'm currently trying to make the draining system work for my new underground arena, and it was just elected mountainhomes, so I'm making rooms for the nobility as well. My goal is to make some big families, but it just goes so damn slowly... It's 13 years or something for a dwarf to grow into an adult, right? So even though they multiply like bunnies, it takes ages for the famility tree to spread much further...

12 years to mature. Bring a book.

Something else I want is something like Nist Akath, constantly harassed by enemies, to MAKE me train my guys up militarily.

Have you tried settling near a Goblin tower? Not nessescarily on the same screen, but a few map-squares away perhaps. That should dial up the encounter rate.

Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 11:52 pm UTC
by Xaddak
I don't believe it.

Image

Terrifying, magma pipe, sand, flux, one layer aquifer, flat plain. I do not believe it, but it is true!

Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 12:56 am UTC
by Kag
Yuri2356 wrote:12 years to mature. Bring a book.


Well, a sufficiently advanced fortress is more or less automated, so you could in theory just leave the game running for a day and let 100 or so years pass.

problems with this plan: whether you hit the cap or not, you're going to have to do some work for your increasing population.

Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 1:15 am UTC
by Yuri2356
Xaddak wrote:I don't believe it.

Image

Terrifying, magma pipe, sand, flux, one layer aquifer, flat plain. I do not believe it, but it is true!

Conglaturation!

Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 2:19 am UTC
by Xanthir
I just read all of Nist Athak. All 75 pages of it. At once.

It was glorious.

Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 2:39 am UTC
by Azrael001
It was indeed. I had to stop to eat and stuff. How annoying.

Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 2:53 am UTC
by Xeio
Xaddak wrote:I don't believe it.

Terrifying, magma pipe, sand, flux, one layer aquifer, flat plain. I do not believe it, but it is true!

Congradulations! You're going to die horribly.

Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 4:37 am UTC
by Xaddak
Actually, I accidentally left the gaming running while I went out to dinner... and then for a further three hours... and only two guys died, and once was in the first 30 seconds on the map because I wasn't paying attention and he got crushed by a falling ceiling tile.

Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 4:54 am UTC
by Azrael001
I remember why it is that I stopped playing. An annoying glitch.

Sometimes when I am scrolling around the map quickly (pressing the Numpad buttons fairly fast) the direction that I am pushing will become locked in, and I will have to fight just to keep the screen still. Saving and exiting is the only way (that I have found) to stop it.

Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:20 am UTC
by Xaddak
Azrael001 wrote:I remember why it is that I stopped playing. An annoying glitch.

Sometimes when I am scrolling around the map quickly (pressing the Numpad buttons fairly fast) the direction that I am pushing will become locked in, and I will have to fight just to keep the screen still. Saving and exiting is the only way (that I have found) to stop it.


I can safely say that has never happened to me... but I use the arrow keys like a sane person! =P

Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:25 am UTC
by Azrael001
The 'band variants have trained me to use the numpad. It is a hard habit to break.

Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 6:12 am UTC
by Xaddak
Okay, based on the embark map I had a few posts ago, anybody know why I am getting damp stone warnings while two layers under the aquifer?

Here's the screen again for reference:
Spoiler:
Image


(Edit)

Just did a test - there really is water leaking out of the walls. Two layers below the aquifer, in completely untouched rock. What is going on?!

Screw it, I'm savescrumming. I'm on this map so I can deal with crap that comes my way, but that doesn't include the game physics defying themselves for no reason whatsoever.

Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 11:04 am UTC
by Yuri2356
The aquifer layer may not be flat? Given the magma pipe, I think it's safe to say that some geology has happened out here.

Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 12:38 pm UTC
by Xaddak
Yuri2356 wrote:The aquifer layer may not be flat? Given the magma pipe, I think it's safe to say that some geology has happened out here.


You're right - the other two biomes have a second aquifer layer under the first. And I guess I get it, aquifer tiles leak water in five of six possible directions - all of them except up.

Still, very frustrating.

Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 1:01 pm UTC
by Phen
I can leave my fortress running by itself fine, but the game pauses now and then because of sieges and whenever someone has a child. Also gotta take care of the crazy nobels.

Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 6:33 pm UTC
by SecondTalon
Azrael001 wrote:I remember why it is that I stopped playing. An annoying glitch.

Sometimes when I am scrolling around the map quickly (pressing the Numpad buttons fairly fast) the direction that I am pushing will become locked in, and I will have to fight just to keep the screen still. Saving and exiting is the only way (that I have found) to stop it.


A combination of toggling num-lock on and off, repeatedly hitting the key that goes in that direction, and I think application of shift and alt fixes the problem.

Sadly, I can never remember which exact sequence does it.

Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 6:39 pm UTC
by Jebobek
Phen wrote:I can leave my fortress running by itself fine, but the game pauses now and then because of sieges and whenever someone has a child. Also gotta take care of the crazy nobels.
One of my favorite things to do in video games is to get an infinite loop (FFX2/FF12) or a self-sustaining game (Sim City) and let it go over night to see what happens the next morning. I hope there's a coding you can do to turn alerts and nobles off.

Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 8:36 pm UTC
by Yuri2356
Jebobek wrote:
Phen wrote:I can leave my fortress running by itself fine, but the game pauses now and then because of sieges and whenever someone has a child. Also gotta take care of the crazy nobels.
One of my favorite things to do in video games is to get an infinite loop (FFX2/FF12) or a self-sustaining game (Sim City) and let it go over night to see what happens the next morning. I hope there's a coding you can do to turn alerts and nobles off.

Well, for the nobles you could just ignore them. If the rest of the fortress is nice enough and your justice system is well staffed/equipped then failed mandates shouldn't have much of an impact. That, or just kill them off.

Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 8:41 pm UTC
by Phen
The nist akath link isn't working no more :(

Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 1:23 am UTC
by Xaddak
Google it!

Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 11:00 am UTC
by Phen
I did! Two first were dead and the third lead here! I'll admit that I was tired and didn't feel like putting in more research.

Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 3:06 pm UTC
by Xaddak

Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 4:56 pm UTC
by Skofo
A roguelike with no Linux support?

HA HA, no thank you.

Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 5:01 pm UTC
by Azrael001
This is not a rogue-like. Not even close... Well adventurer is almost close, but for the most part it is only similar in graphics. And even then DF is far superior.

Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 5:03 pm UTC
by Xaddak
Skofo wrote:A roguelike with no Linux support?

HA HA, no thank you.


http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index. ... ents#Linux

http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index. ... _Questions

Skofo, this is the second time I've seen you jump into a conversation and slather ignorance all over everything. No offense, but I'm just going to ignore you from now on, m'kay?

Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 5:23 pm UTC
by Awia
And even if it didn't have Linux support, there is this magical thing I like to call Wine, it allows you to run non-Linux programs in Linux, isn't modern software magical?

Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 7:03 pm UTC
by Xanthir
Actually, Wine *is* their Linux support.

Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 8:36 pm UTC
by Awia
Even then, it still still works. It's how I run it, and I've never had any troubles.

Ignore the fact I didn't know if there was any Linux support, even though I run Linux...

Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 8:39 pm UTC
by Skofo
Even so, this is a roguelike. A text-based roleplaying game, played in a terminal. One of the easiest types of games to program, and even easier to port it to run on a toaster.

Thing with Wine is that it takes up a lot of memory just to load it up, before even running anything through it. Plus you need a graphic card that supports Wine to use it. Being forced to run something as simple as a roguelike through Wine should never happen. It's like using the sun, a bunch of mirrors and a giant magnifying glass just to fry eggs, you know? Or making a glass necklace with sand and lightning.

I realize that Dwarf Fortress is one of the more memory-intensive roguelikes out there, but that is no excuse for it not having Linux support. Having the ability to run an application through Wine does not mean that it supports Linux, but rather Linux supports it.

Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 8:51 pm UTC
by SecondTalon
Alright, Toady hates Linux. Personally.

There, I said it.

Linux support will probably come along soon enough - when he's got more time to port it over. While technically you could say that aspects of this are a Roguelike, it's more akin to a text version of Sim City, with a built in copy of SimCopter.

Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 8:59 pm UTC
by Xaddak
Bah, ST posted while I was typing, but mine is more in-depth, nyah!

*sighs*

Well, I was GOING to ignore you.

DF is "text based" in the sense that the graphics are made out of text (mostly). However, the text symbols are icons used to display on a graphical screen, as seen here:

Image

Yes, it has messages that pop up at the bottom, as you can see. But for the most part, no, your main interaction with the game is through the screen there. That thing on the side is called a "menu" and as such, HAS to be in text. It definitely isn't text based in the sense of "n, c fireball zombie, flee, c teleport, drink fountain", etc. You don't enter commands through a terminal-style interface. Point disproven.

NEXT.

You say it is a roguelike. One of the classical features of a roguelike is that they are 2-D (according to Wikipedia). DF utilizes a nifty system called "z-levels". Using < and > changes your view up and down a z-level. The number of z-levels on a map is determined by the map itself - I believe the number is 15 above the highest point, and 15 below the lowest, and everything in between. So depending on if you're on a flat plain or a really steep mountain, you could have 30, 60, or maybe even more z-levels (although I think even 60 would be pushing it).

Now, the thing is: yes, DF has "adventurer mode" which could be described as a roguelike (even though Adventurer mode also makes use of z-levels to be 3D [and yes, it is 3D. It has 3 dimensions, even though the graphics are flat, hence the z-levels system]), where you play a single character and mill around in the world you have generated. But the namesake of the game is "Fortress mode", which is far more akin to Sim City, although much more complex and in-depth. Water flows semi-realistically. You have to place and control workshops of every flavour - mason, forge, carpenter, loom, clothier's, tanners, leatherworkers, kitchen, brewery, butchers, and so on and so on. You have to command military dwarves. You have to mine out your home, or build it above ground if you're a hippie elf. You have to keep an eye on your farms or other food production to ensure you don't run out, and god help you if you're on a glacier because your only source of drink will be alcohol, so you had better have brought something you can brew. You have to satisfy the inane production demands of nobles. You have to recruit a fortress guard to keep your nobles happy and keep the peace - think "police". You have to trade with foreign powers and the Mountainhomes. You have demons below, and giant eagles above, elephants outside the doors, and carp swimming through your rivers, all of which can prove deadly to an inexperienced dwarf. Oh yeah, and you're doing all of this while ensuring that each and every dwarf is in a good enough mood that they will continue working and not go insane and slaughter other dwarves and pets. Gee, that.. doesn't sound like a roguelike at all!

Another point? DF isn't MEMORY intensive (well, somewhat, but not nearly as much as most modern games), it is CPU intensive. In Fortress Mode, the game can be keeping track of up to 200 dwarves, their children, pets, and any monsters or other civilizations on the map. That's a whole lot of pathfinding to be done (plus keeping track of flowing water/magma, and I'm sure about a million other things).

The only thing you're correct about is "Having the ability to run an application through Wine does not mean that it supports Linux, but rather Linux supports it.", but even so: the game can be played under Linux, so I believe the phrase is "quit yer bitchin'." Now, since all you're really doing is whining about a game you clearly don't like and have no intention of playing, why don't you go away instead of coming back in here to disturb the discussion about the game over and over?

Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 9:11 pm UTC
by Skofo
Xaddak wrote:[whale-sized rebuttal essay]


Oh my. I believe I just got told!

Well done, kudos to you! It is obvious that you are the superiour one in this field of expertise. Rub the underside of your nose in pride.

So with that, I'ma scurry along now with my tail inbetween my legs and go play Dwarf Fortress under Wine. Good day!

In other news, I feel like I'm being watched.

Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 9:22 pm UTC
by Xaddak
Skofo wrote:
Xaddak wrote:[whale-sized rebuttal essay]


[sarcastic rubbish including invisible text]


*headdesk*

Yes. I do feel proud, because telling you off was my objective, I certainly wasn't trying to restore the peaceful conversation that existed earlier. Kudos right back at you for cleverly diving my purpose!

SO ANYWAY BAK ON TOPIC LOL!!1

I've got a group of archery targets set up with their "rooms" sized to stretch to the wall across from them, some 10 tiles away. The targets are every other tile, and thus, the rooms overlap considerably. I've also noticed I never seem to see more than two dwarves practicing archery at a time. Is the overlapping the reason why?

Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 9:24 pm UTC
by Awia
Oh my. I believe I just got told!

Well done, kudos to you! It is obvious that you are the superiour one in this field of expertise. Rub the underside of your nose in pride.

So with that, I'ma scurry along now with my tail inbetween my legs and go play Dwarf Fortress under Wine. Good day!
So err...you didn't even read up on the game before you started to spew evil evil words about it?

Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 9:26 pm UTC
by SecondTalon
I usually do a shooting gallery approach, where I have multiple tunnels leading down to the archery targets and each one it's own room

Code: Select all

**********
*X++++++++
**********
*X++++++++
**********
*X++++++++
**********
*X++++++++
**********
*X++++++++
**********


Of course, now that you mention it, I don't recall seeing more than one or two in there at a time. And each room has almost no overlap.

Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 9:33 pm UTC
by Xaddak
I just tried reducing all the targets to their own square, but it occurs to me that this does not leave a place for the dwarf to stand. I am now trying it with all the targets under one targets room like a dining room, although I am fairly certain this does not work.

Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 9:45 pm UTC
by Skofo
Awia wrote:
[NOT sarcastic rubbish, I was actually impressed!]
[baseless assumptions]


What makes you say that? Of course I have. I read under the 'Downloads' page of the Dwarf Fortress website that there is no Linux version of the download. That was essentially the subject of all the evil I've been spewing.

That, and I played it for a few months or so.

I just tried reducing all the targets to their own square, but it occurs to me that this does not leave a place for the dwarf to stand.

You need a space for the target, a space for a dwarf to stand on, and a space inbetween. This might be why your target-checkering makes your dwarves' archery training buggy.

Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 9:52 pm UTC
by Awia
Skofo wrote:
Awia wrote:
[NOT sarcastic rubbish, I was actually impressed!]
[baseless assumptions]


What makes you say that? Of course I have. I read under the 'Downloads' page of the Dwarf Fortress website that there is no Linux version of the download. That was essentially the subject of all the evil I've been spewing.

That, and I played it for a few months or so.
I was talking about you calling it a rouguelike, I should have quoted something more suitable.

Re: You gotta get into Dwarf Fortress if you haven't already.

Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 9:54 pm UTC
by Skofo
Awia wrote:
Skofo wrote:
Awia wrote:
[NOT sarcastic rubbish, I was actually impressed!]
[baseless assumptions]


What makes you say that? Of course I have. I read under the 'Downloads' page of the Dwarf Fortress website that there is no Linux version of the download. That was essentially the subject of all the evil I've been spewing.

That, and I played it for a few months or so.
I was talking about you calling it a rouguelike, I should have quoted something more suitable.


Is the slight mistaking of the official sub-genre of a game always this offensive to you?