Supreme Commander

Of the Tabletop, and other, lesser varieties.

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Gowerly
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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby Gowerly » Mon Mar 02, 2009 8:46 am UTC

The Scathis, Mavor, Ylona Oss (t4 nuke) and Paragaon (res gen) have nearly identical costs and buildtimes. All are in the range of 250k Mass.
and ACU: don't be silly. ASFs >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ints.
ASFs have a variable speed:
Ints: 10 (195m/s) - 15 (293m/s)
ASFs: 8 (156m/s) - 25 (488m/s)
As you can see, the ASFs have a greater varable speed, and this is in the normal FA game. The will ALWAYS track.
Also, most ASFs have incredible frontloaded damage, meaning they will shred any air experimental in one or two passes with even something like 40 of them. They're ridiculously good.
I will throw up a replay tonight/tomorrow of an FFA I hosted (but didn't play in, commentary again). You will need the map "Standing Stones" to watch it, though, so get both map packs:
First one - Info and previews
Second one - Info and previews
The quality of maps ranges from maps with zero mass spots for reclaiming craziness, to ones with an insane number for turtle power.
There'll be another FFA on that map in the future, but without the ability to get past t1 mass extractors. FFAs suffer with eco teching.
You may be able to get the FFA from the vault by searching for me (Gowerly), Zulan, _PINK (he quit midway through), Zock, Ridley_, Adlermann, Krinto (quit midway through) or Bhaal.

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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby ACU-LP » Mon Mar 02, 2009 11:59 am UTC

Variable speed my ass. I have never seen an ASF go slower or even get close to tracking an interceptor.
But those are some damn good maps.
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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby Gowerly » Mon Mar 02, 2009 12:25 pm UTC

I have. They have limited deceleration, though, so if they're too close, they'll still overshoot.
You can see ASFs tracking strat bombers, t2 Fighter bombers (same speed as t1 ints), Asswashers, etc.

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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby ACU-LP » Mon Mar 02, 2009 1:15 pm UTC

Hmmm. I'll have to do some testing.
Also, anyone else realised that the UEF fighter/bomber is really just an excuse to have a bomber that has wings that change position; I had one attacking an enemies lightest transport aircraft. It did.....well....not much at all really.
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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby Gowerly » Mon Mar 02, 2009 1:30 pm UTC

They have good hitpoints. I think they have to change modes to shoot at land and air.
Their DPS, however, isn't much more than a t1 int. This due to the fact that they do a decent ground damage.

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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby ACU-LP » Mon Mar 02, 2009 1:36 pm UTC

I'd say less than a T1 int; two interceptors, 5 bomber/fighters. The bomber/fighters were told to attack one of the interceptors. All five bomber/fighters went down, one of the interceptors had lost 12 health.
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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby Gowerly » Mon Mar 02, 2009 2:06 pm UTC

What.
What were you doing? Did you tell the F/B's to fly away at the same time? There's no way 2 t1 ints should have won that:
An int has ~ 300HP and does ~ 50DPS
a t2 F/B has ~1200 HP and does ~ 150DPS
the ints should have been creamed, unless you mean ASFs, or the F/Bs were too busy attacking the ground.

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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby ACU-LP » Mon Mar 02, 2009 2:25 pm UTC

Hmmm...maybe its caused by one of the mods.
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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby headprogrammingczar » Mon Mar 02, 2009 5:26 pm UTC

ACU-LP wrote:Hmmm...maybe its caused by one of the mods.

This is precisely the reason I prefer Vanilla SupCom. For all the imbalance it has, it also has the fewest game-breaking flaws. Also, ASFs have always behaved for me; I don't know what you guys are complaining about.
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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby Gowerly » Mon Mar 02, 2009 6:31 pm UTC

I think Vanilla had enough of its own. More people play(ed) FA, so more were found. It's surprising how many there are in FA, though!
Vanilla's balance is so incredibly bad, though, that I will always stick with FA.

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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby Texas_Ben » Mon Mar 02, 2009 9:57 pm UTC

What game-breakers are there in FA?

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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby aireoth » Tue Mar 03, 2009 2:39 pm UTC

I haven't had my Sup-com out since last year, is there any decent mods for it yet. Not overly concerned about balance, Total Annihilation was always about the crazy numbers of units and massive artillary rather then balance in my games.

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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby ACU-LP » Tue Mar 03, 2009 3:26 pm UTC

Many mods are good, they're generally scattered throughout the thread. Vanilla or FA?
In either case, get the latest sorians AI and 4th dimension mod.
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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby Gowerly » Tue Mar 03, 2009 4:15 pm UTC

Texas_Ben wrote:What game-breakers are there in FA?

I'm not going to go around spreading them!

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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby Phen » Wed Mar 04, 2009 4:46 pm UTC

Yay, I got the QuadV thingy working! I wish I had found that place earlier... There's tons of replays there, for fpses too! Yay!

:D

Now I'm going to watch the supcom matches. Gowerly, you better be good.
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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby Gowerly » Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:56 am UTC

I'm only in the more recent supcom ones. I played in a couple of the earlier FFAs. I was a bit of a noob then.

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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby LuNatic » Fri Mar 06, 2009 6:30 am UTC

I haven't played this in around 8 months. Have GPG fixed the AI yet?
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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby Gowerly » Fri Mar 06, 2009 9:45 am UTC

Enemy AI? No. You can get Sorian or Duncane's AI if you insist on playing against the computer.
Unit AI, for the most part, is fine, unless everyone's got 1000 units.

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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby alexjhh » Tue Mar 17, 2009 2:46 pm UTC

Any tips for better UIs? The vanilla one is, well, horrible...
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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby Gowerly » Tue Mar 17, 2009 3:47 pm UTC

you talking about Supreme Commander or Forged Alliance?
If the former, Press Alt + Down Arrow in game to get a more minimal UI.

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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby ACU-LP » Tue Mar 17, 2009 11:09 pm UTC

And in the latter, as long as you change the settings to unlock the Ui, press alt + left or right to change to a different factions interface.
I only yesterday played some of vanilla. I hadn't realised how different it was to FA.
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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby ACU-LP » Wed Mar 25, 2009 5:40 am UTC

*BUMP*
I'm still having trouble with ASF tracking, but the Janus weakness appears to have been fixed for me since the last mod I downloaded.
One of the mods I'm testing out now is freaking ridiculous; one particular unit takes 11-12 minutes to build, but is effectively an experimental UEF bomber; it looks like an atlantis with huge wings strapped on. It has minimal anti-air but is not too slow (faster than a czar). But when it gets near enemy ground units; it spams bombs beneath it. As in, it sweeps across an enemy base carpet bombing it to hell. And then if they knock it out of the sky, it explodes in a UEF nuclear explosion.
I built 5 of them and my RAM usage jumped by 10%. Ridiculous.

Also, anyone know of any mods which block the use of tactical missile launchers? I am sick of the computer spamming them.
I Am Raven wrote:Math is like a penis: it can be very satisfactory, but also a pain in the ass.
Red vs Blue wrote:Wash: That was the worst throw ever. Of all time.
Caboose: Not my fault. Someone put a wall in my way.

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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby Gowerly » Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:25 pm UTC

build TMD?
I can tell you how to make your own mod to stop them being built?

Hijacking:
http://forums.gaspowered.com/viewtopic.php?t=35624

double checking times for DST (this weekend, EU fans)

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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby ACU-LP » Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:43 pm UTC

1. I don't know how to make mods.
2. Most of the time I can defend against the tactical missiles at my base (although no matter how many tmd's you have, when they fire 10 missiles at once at you, then the tmds have tendency to all attack the same missiles letting the others wander through and massacre your shields and then bases.
3. Most of the time its the fact that whenever I send even large groups of experimentals, the area gets spammed by 100s (I kid you not) of missiles and even experimentals can't take that kind of insane damage.
I Am Raven wrote:Math is like a penis: it can be very satisfactory, but also a pain in the ass.
Red vs Blue wrote:Wash: That was the worst throw ever. Of all time.
Caboose: Not my fault. Someone put a wall in my way.

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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby headprogrammingczar » Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:54 pm UTC

You can outrange them with your own artillery. By the time they get to the point where their TML defense is ridiculous, you have 1-2 T3 Static Artillery. Use those to weaken their shields and send some mobile artillery to finish off what is underneath. There is also always air units. T3 Bombers blow the living shit out of everything not flying.
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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby ACU-LP » Wed Mar 25, 2009 1:00 pm UTC

Well, I ban game ending units, which include tech 3 artillery. Also, aircraft attacks normally work, however they not only have them spammed across their firebases which are themselves spammed to hell and back, but throughout their base (wherein aircraft are ripped apart by sams). I can deal with defending against them, but not attacking them. It is my major qualm with sorians AI. Although one good counter was a particular mod which made them auto-launch, which meant you could spam them as well and not have to micro them.
See the thing is, I like to have battles where its really close and one side only just wins over another, other than just total and utter turtling till someone spams 100's of gunships/bombers/ASFs/experimentals and then steamrolls their opponent.
I Am Raven wrote:Math is like a penis: it can be very satisfactory, but also a pain in the ass.
Red vs Blue wrote:Wash: That was the worst throw ever. Of all time.
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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby Texas_Ben » Wed Mar 25, 2009 1:24 pm UTC

Play as Cybran and use their T3 assault bot... the loyalist, I think it's called? Sends the missiles right back to where they came from!

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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby ACU-LP » Wed Mar 25, 2009 1:38 pm UTC

Yes, but only one every 10 seconds or so. Think of this as more of a one every 2 seconds. Spaced two units apart. Everywhere.
I Am Raven wrote:Math is like a penis: it can be very satisfactory, but also a pain in the ass.
Red vs Blue wrote:Wash: That was the worst throw ever. Of all time.
Caboose: Not my fault. Someone put a wall in my way.

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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby headprogrammingczar » Wed Mar 25, 2009 11:51 pm UTC

See, your problem is that you don't allow game-enders. Granted, you have a good reason for it, but it still causes problems. The same thing comes out of removing siege tanks in Starcraft because they outrange everything, including detector LOS. Just "unban" game-enders and adjust your rules accordingly.

Edit: You referred to Sorian's AI in your post. I don't know how to fix Sorian's silliness.
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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby xkcijik » Thu Mar 26, 2009 8:15 am UTC

Personally dont really like this game, it suck my pc's memoery each time i play, and take a very very long time to build and finish a battle. The lagging hard out as well....overall, if you dont have a fast internet, super computer, it just a bad idea to play it.
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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby Gowerly » Thu Mar 26, 2009 10:44 am UTC

ACU-LP wrote:Well, I ban game ending units, which include tech 3 artillery. Also, aircraft attacks normally work, however they not only have them spammed across their firebases which are themselves spammed to hell and back, but throughout their base (wherein aircraft are ripped apart by sams). I can deal with defending against them, but not attacking them. It is my major qualm with sorians AI. Although one good counter was a particular mod which made them auto-launch, which meant you could spam them as well and not have to micro them.
See the thing is, I like to have battles where its really close and one side only just wins over another, other than just total and utter turtling till someone spams 100's of gunships/bombers/ASFs/experimentals and then steamrolls their opponent.

Play a game that only allows T1, you get incredible micro battles that way.
when I get home, if I'm awake still, I'll make a mod that disables TMLs.

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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby ACU-LP » Thu Mar 26, 2009 11:14 am UTC

xkcijik wrote:Personally don't really like this game, it sucks up my PC's memory each time I play, and takes a very long time to build and finish a battle. The game lags badly as well....Overall, if you don't have a fast internet and a super computer, it is just a bad idea to play it.
One, I fixed your english. No offense if it is not your first language, but if it is....Grrr.
But there is a reason for this processor and memory intensiveness; it allows battles to occur on rather epic scales and allows an actually intelligent AI that has to rely on actual scouting to see you. If I remember correctly, I think its the only game in which the computer has to gather intelligence on you rather than just knowing where you are. And it does so very effectively.
Sure, it may take a supercomputer to run, but that's the thing, so do most computer games these days.
Gowerly wrote:Play a game that only allows T1, you get incredible micro battles that way.
when I get home, if I'm awake still, I'll make a mod that disables TMLs.
Heh, I've done that before. Doing those kinds of battles is fun, but if its not enough of a challenge, you can spawn the enemy an experimental and let the good times roll.
Also, if you do manage to do that. THANK YOU!
I can imagine if you could make a match where you couldn't build strategic missile defense systems, but could build one launcher (at a time) things could get quite interesting; you'd have to have multiple independent bases operational. But that would be extremely hard.
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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby Texas_Ben » Thu Mar 26, 2009 12:05 pm UTC

ACU-LP wrote:I can imagine if you could make a match where you couldn't build strategic missile defense systems, but could build one launcher (at a time) things could get quite interesting; you'd have to have multiple independent bases operational. But that would be extremely hard.

It would be interesting even without a 1-launcher limit... Assuming nobody gets nukes way sooner than anyone else, you have a sort of MAD thing going one where you don't want to launch your nukes because they might have a base or a silo somewhere you don't know about.

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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby Gowerly » Thu Mar 26, 2009 3:40 pm UTC

With regards to CPU overheads: Just play against people. I guarantee it's much more fun. There's usually one kind of game in a mode that you'll like.

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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby Phen » Thu Mar 26, 2009 5:59 pm UTC

Hey Gowerly, do you know the reason is for the lack of new games at QuadV? Is the game just not played so much anymore, or what?
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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby Gowerly » Thu Mar 26, 2009 6:21 pm UTC

The game's not played all that much and Deman, the main caster, does the COD4 casts, as well, of which there are many more.

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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby Gowerly » Thu Mar 26, 2009 6:55 pm UTC

I made you a mod.
Goes in <Personal>\My Games\Gas Powered Games\Supreme Commander Forged Alliance\Mods.
<Personal> is, in general, "My Documents"

This works in the sense that I, personally, cannot build TMLs. Whether the AI can try or not is something else. It might crash. Let me know how you get on. I basically edited the blueprint for the TML so that it was unbuildable.

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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby ACU-LP » Fri Mar 27, 2009 11:09 am UTC

Heh, I was expecting it to either crash, or when I got to a point in its normal defensive layout where there'd be a tml, it would just get stuck.
But it decided option c was best; that the commander would just not do anything right from the start. Though (I guess its because its a seperate AI system to the acutal functioning of a unit to the auto-attack) it was interesting to observe that any units sent near would be attacked.
Also, even if you take control of their side and build them some stuff such as engineers, etc, they all stay still as well.
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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby Gowerly » Fri Mar 27, 2009 11:22 am UTC

That's pretty crazy. All I did was recreate the TML unit. Oh well, I'll try something different. I think I know what to do this time.
Allow the TML, but give it a build power of 0. It'll never actually make any missiles.

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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby Gowerly » Fri Mar 27, 2009 10:02 pm UTC

Try this
Tested with AI, all works.
You can build TMLs, but they have no build power, and as the AI doesn't assist them, they will never fire a missile at you.


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