Supreme Commander

Of the Tabletop, and other, lesser varieties.

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ACU-LP
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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby ACU-LP » Sat Oct 04, 2008 7:43 am UTC

You've had seven AI's going at once?
I admit I have too, but I destroyed them as fast as possible so that I could finish it. Never again.

I never really found mercys to be a problem; they have too little health to get to their destination.
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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby headprogrammingczar » Mon Oct 06, 2008 12:53 am UTC

So what is your trick to dealing with mercies?

Also, I just almost finished a game of Betrayal Ocean. God, that map is huge.
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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby headprogrammingczar » Tue Oct 07, 2008 10:25 pm UTC

Sorry for the double post, but it needed a bump.
So I got it working on my laptop, and thanks to my bizzare ass-schedule, the only times I can play are friday night (EST) and Tuesday or Wednesday morning until 2 (EST). Thanks to my laptop working smoother than my desktop, I can actually play on a real-sized map with more than a 1v1! If we can't get enough people to buy the game, we can VPN and I can PM my CD key (won't work multiplayer, so my scruples remain untarnished).
Edit: SCU manager is a lifesaver!
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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby ACU-LP » Tue Oct 07, 2008 11:04 pm UTC

Wait a second, does the cd key work more than once?
Then my brother and me could play this and halo on a lan connection.

Generally I deal with mercies by not facing them at all; the AI's dont like using them in high enough levels to get through my defenses (yay for turtling), and human opponents generally think they are a waste of resources; I play large maps against humans (and often the mercies dont have enough fuel, especially if I see them on radar and keep scrambling fighters towards them; causes them to zigzag their path. Gives me enough time to build my defenses and economy to turtle level before they arrive.
I Am Raven wrote:Math is like a penis: it can be very satisfactory, but also a pain in the ass.
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headprogrammingczar
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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby headprogrammingczar » Wed Oct 08, 2008 12:55 am UTC

The key works because LAN does not do CD checks. Other games are not so nice (ahem...). Sins of a Solar Empire works the same way, as does any game made by Blizzard. I can go on...
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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby ACU-LP » Wed Oct 08, 2008 3:17 am UTC

kewl, all I need then is a CD hack. (which I can get).
Damn Halo 2 Vista requiring online activation as well as a cd key
I Am Raven wrote:Math is like a penis: it can be very satisfactory, but also a pain in the ass.
Red vs Blue wrote:Wash: That was the worst throw ever. Of all time.
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Amnesiasoft
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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby Amnesiasoft » Wed Oct 08, 2008 4:45 am UTC

Actually, as far as I can tell, Live lets you be online with the same CD key in multiple places. I assume that will be changed at some point...

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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby ACU-LP » Wed Oct 08, 2008 5:39 am UTC

Amnesiasoft wrote:Actually, as far as I can tell, Live lets you be online with the same CD key in multiple places. I assume that will be changed at some point...

The activation after entering the cd key is directly through microsoft, and not live (at least it seemed to be when I did it). I will have to experiment when my brother builds his computer.

Am I the only one who thought that the walls in supcom were a bunch of shit. They couldnt block shit. All they were good for was showing your base boundries and making things look all neat and tidy. I must admit though, if you plan ahead you can figure out when a stealthed experimental is coming at you; have lines of wall on paths of attack to your base. When the wall dissapear without reason, they're either being attack or have just been crushed by an experimental.
If you're playing no intel, this can be very handy.

Then again, if you're UEF (or have their tech), an expensive but much more effective wall is that of the fatboys.
A huge wall, with immense firepower and decent range, and can almost completely support your land unit needs.

I love sending a wall of fatboys to my opponents base and then setting the camera angle so that they run over it.
Looks like something from a movie, until you go into the tank when it passes you over....
I Am Raven wrote:Math is like a penis: it can be very satisfactory, but also a pain in the ass.
Red vs Blue wrote:Wash: That was the worst throw ever. Of all time.
Caboose: Not my fault. Someone put a wall in my way.

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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby EdgarJPublius » Wed Oct 08, 2008 6:39 am UTC

you know the solution to Fatboys? Monkeylord spam. As many fatboys as you can build, I can build more monkeylords for less faster.

In fact, Monkeylord spam solves pretty much every problem.

Although, on non-assassination games, a ninja-commander is also pretty awesome, just avoid omni-sensors and it's an invisible killing machine. Best thing I've ever done, waltzed a ninja-commander right into an enemies resource farm (complete with defensive turrets and an omni sensor) and let my enemy destroy his own resource farm at the expense of my commander (protip, don't do what he did, always spread your resources out). His economy never recovered and I had a quantum gateway so the loss of my commander was minimal.
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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby ACU-LP » Wed Oct 08, 2008 7:48 am UTC

EdgarJPublius wrote:you know the solution to Fatboys? Monkeylord spam. As many fatboys as you can build, I can build more monkeylords for less faster.

In fact, Monkeylord spam solves pretty much every problem.

Although, on non-assassination games, a ninja-commander is also pretty awesome, just avoid omni-sensors and it's an invisible killing machine. Best thing I've ever done, waltzed a ninja-commander right into an enemies resource farm (complete with defensive turrets and an omni sensor) and let my enemy destroy his own resource farm at the expense of my commander (protip, don't do what he did, always spread your resources out). His economy never recovered and I had a quantum gateway so the loss of my commander was minimal.

No intel games + cybran commander = NINJA!
The only things to avoid are experimentals and commanders (as they have in built omni).
All your opponent sees is some small pulses and a motherfucking red laser of death appearing from nowhere. AI get confused, humans go 'wtf?' and attempt to attack the area.

That is one of my major gripes with supcom; you cant tell a unit to attack ground.
For units with splash damage, and spammy turtle defense, you can get a bunch of rapid artillery to shell the entrances to your base and little will get through; like in old ta.

*EDIT: New version for 4th dimension mod; 4.92 for FA. Includes some good changes. YAY
I Am Raven wrote:Math is like a penis: it can be very satisfactory, but also a pain in the ass.
Red vs Blue wrote:Wash: That was the worst throw ever. Of all time.
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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby Phen » Wed Oct 08, 2008 11:49 am UTC

What's this 4th dimension mod?
I'm a wizard. We know these things.

In war, one should seek to take and hold the high ground. From there, the enemy's movements are clearly visible, and he will struggle just to reach you, let alone fight you. High orbit is the highest ground there is.

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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby headprogrammingczar » Wed Oct 08, 2008 12:01 pm UTC

ACU-LP wrote:That is one of my major gripes with supcom; you cant tell a unit to attack ground.

You actually can, and I got seriously fooled by this until I learned better. In startcaft and etcetera, you press 'a' for attack move. In SupCom, it is ctrl-shift-rightclick. It turns out that 'a' is the attack-ground button.

Also, will 1.92 work if we have vanilla?
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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby ACU-LP » Wed Oct 08, 2008 12:17 pm UTC

Phen wrote:What's this 4th dimension mod?

Look earlier in the thread for my review on what it is, plus reviews on other such stuff (like a non-stock AI, etc)

headprogrammingczar wrote:
ACU-LP wrote:That is one of my major gripes with supcom; you cant tell a unit to attack ground.

You actually can, and I got seriously fooled by this until I learned better. In startcaft and etcetera, you press 'a' for attack move. In SupCom, it is ctrl-shift-rightclick. It turns out that 'a' is the attack-ground button.

Also, will 1.92 work if we have vanilla?

There are versions for both vanilla and FA. FA ones are newer (i.e. 1.92, and vanilla one are older, but they still have roughly the same thing)
Also, FA is really cheap at the moment. I can get it for an equivalent of about $25 US here in Australia. Sometimes cheaper.
Lots of mods, maps, and other such fun stuff can be found at
http://supremecommander.filefront.com/
I cant seem to find 4th dimension's specific website at the moment....Not exactly sure why; it had a full changelog and explanation, videos etc.
Here is a youtube video for the mod; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4tA4LR6EYY
I Am Raven wrote:Math is like a penis: it can be very satisfactory, but also a pain in the ass.
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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby headprogrammingczar » Wed Oct 08, 2008 1:01 pm UTC

Well, I'm strapped for cash right now what with classes, so unless someone can lend me their copy, I will be stuck with vanilla, which has some balance issues, and turtling is waaay too easy.
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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby ACU-LP » Wed Oct 08, 2008 1:35 pm UTC

headprogrammingczar wrote:Well, I'm strapped for cash right now what with classes, so unless someone can lend me their copy, I will be stuck with vanilla, which has some balance issues, and turtling is waaay too easy.

At least the mods are free
I Am Raven wrote:Math is like a penis: it can be very satisfactory, but also a pain in the ass.
Red vs Blue wrote:Wash: That was the worst throw ever. Of all time.
Caboose: Not my fault. Someone put a wall in my way.

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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby Gowerly » Thu Oct 09, 2008 10:54 am UTC

I've pretty much forgotten how to play vanilla.
Also, standard units or none at all. I've not played a unit mod that's worth playing. People's choice of "balance" is generally terrible and biased towards their favourite faction (usually UEF for some reason). 4th Dimension was no different. As someone that plays for the early game, making more and more uber units is just ridiculous, and the ACU "upgrades" were beyond silly! I can see why it would appeal to those that just want to tech and tech and launch massive armies at each other, but as someone that likes to cheese, attack early and raid, playing a tactical and strategic game from beginning to end, I find these mods to not be geared towards me.

Vanilla mercies were uber until they were patched to uselessness. In FA they're generally useless. Have some ints patrolling and maybe some random t1 mobile aa and they're dead. You need 5-8 for an ACU assassination and that's quite the expense, especially as in FA you can simply tech to restorers and eat your opponent that way.

FA is the game supcom should have been. If you get FA, you'll find you simply can't play it the same way as vanilla. I suggest if you can acquire it somehow, watching some replays (1v1s are generally good to watch for learning how to harass, 2v2s and 3v3s for how to control maps [make sure its of decent players]) will really help you on your way. I can teach you as well, if you like.

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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby ACU-LP » Thu Oct 09, 2008 11:22 am UTC

Gowerly wrote:I've pretty much forgotten how to play vanilla.
Also, standard units or none at all. I've not played a unit mod that's worth playing. People's choice of "balance" is generally terrible and biased towards their favourite faction (usually UEF for some reason). 4th Dimension was no different. As someone that plays for the early game, making more and more uber units is just ridiculous, and the ACU "upgrades" were beyond silly! I can see why it would appeal to those that just want to tech and tech and launch massive armies at each other, but as someone that likes to cheese, attack early and raid, playing a tactical and strategic game from beginning to end, I find these mods to not be geared towards me.

Vanilla mercies were uber until they were patched to uselessness. In FA they're generally useless. Have some ints patrolling and maybe some random t1 mobile aa and they're dead. You need 5-8 for an ACU assassination and that's quite the expense, especially as in FA you can simply tech to restorers and eat your opponent that way.

FA is the game supcom should have been. If you get FA, you'll find you simply can't play it the same way as vanilla. I suggest if you can acquire it somehow, watching some replays (1v1s are generally good to watch for learning how to harass, 2v2s and 3v3s for how to control maps [make sure its of decent players]) will really help you on your way. I can teach you as well, if you like.

Personally I found 4th dimension good for early games. The low level units were faster, and if used properly, can take down many a tech 2 / tech 3 unit, sometimes even experimentals without having to be (too) en masse.
I Am Raven wrote:Math is like a penis: it can be very satisfactory, but also a pain in the ass.
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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby headprogrammingczar » Thu Oct 09, 2008 3:13 pm UTC

I just formed the xkcd clan. Join and we can try to get some small games going before we try game nights.
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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby Gowerly » Thu Oct 09, 2008 3:59 pm UTC

on GPGNet? I will always be a QSquid, but I'm usually on in the evenings (UTC) as Gowerly. I'm in purple near the top, if you're on Halcyon.

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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby ACU-LP » Wed Oct 15, 2008 12:39 pm UTC

Yay, a new mod for all four factions. However it, like all the others seems to be tilted towards the UEF.
*goes off to test thing that looks like atlantis with wings*
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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby Gowerly » Wed Oct 15, 2008 1:11 pm UTC

Well, you know, UEF experimentals are arse compared to the other 3 factions ;)

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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby Xaddak » Wed Oct 15, 2008 1:17 pm UTC

Gowerly wrote:Well, you know, UEF experimentals are arse compared to the other 3 factions ;)


Being able to kill people right through shields from 80km away with the Mavor disagrees with you.

Being able to sneak around and produce firebases behind enemy lines, and act as a mobile air staging/artillery platform with the Fatboy disagrees with you.

Being able to... well, no, the Atlantis really does kind of suck.

-----

Am I the only one who thinks that omni sensors are overpowered? They cover such a massive area with their "no cloaks for u lol" effect, and correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the standard Cybran doctrine supposed to be "sneak around, ambush, run away, sneak around, ambush, run away", etc? It just seems to me like the omni sensors breaks a good portion of the Cybran strategy, and much smaller but still significant portions of the other faction's strategys as well.
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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby ACU-LP » Wed Oct 15, 2008 8:38 pm UTC

About the omni, indeed you are right, and many mods change this.
If you let someone have the time and resources to build a mavor, you deserve to lose. (This has been said before)
The atlantis, barring the megalith is the most powerful submarine and has sufficient power to knock out anything but a megalith. However, several can be made in the time of one megalith, so you can still rule the seas.
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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby BumpInTheNight » Wed Oct 15, 2008 11:10 pm UTC

Damnit, you guys just convinced me to buy Forged Alliance. :)

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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby Amnesiasoft » Wed Oct 15, 2008 11:42 pm UTC

ACU-LP wrote:If you let someone have the time and resources to build a mavor, you deserve to lose.

You've obviously never seen the way my friend plays the game. He has managed to build a Mavor in under a minute. Multiple times.

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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby Azrael001 » Wed Oct 15, 2008 11:46 pm UTC

That doesn't seem physically possible.
23111

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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby Xaddak » Thu Oct 16, 2008 12:01 am UTC

A minute from the start of the game, or from the start of construction of the Mavor? Because if you slap enough T3 engineers and SCUs on there, I can see the latter happening.
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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby ACU-LP » Thu Oct 16, 2008 12:12 am UTC

Getting a mavor under construction within a minute of gameplay is impossible without mods.
Building a mavor in under a minute, is still really really hard considering its build time.
Also, if you let them get enough resources to be able to build one within a minute, you were dead anyway.
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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby Xaddak » Thu Oct 16, 2008 3:21 am UTC

ACU-LP wrote:Getting a mavor under construction within a minute of gameplay is impossible without mods.
Building a mavor in under a minute, is still really really hard considering its build time.
Also, if you let them get enough resources to be able to build one within a minute, you were dead anyway.


Having a lot of resources doesn't equate to winning. You have to use them, too.

And can everyone stop saying "let them" do this? Sometimes your opponent will do something you tried and failed to stop. You didn't "let" them do anything.
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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby ACU-LP » Thu Oct 16, 2008 4:50 am UTC

Well, especially in FA, 4th dimension mod, resource farming is hard and innefective.
If they have a large farm; you can easily set off a chain reaction of exploding generators despite heavy defense.
If not, they must be spread pretty thin, hence you should be able to take back some areas, or at least prevent them from keeping them
I Am Raven wrote:Math is like a penis: it can be very satisfactory, but also a pain in the ass.
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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby EdgarJPublius » Thu Oct 16, 2008 6:23 am UTC

Xaddak wrote:
ACU-LP wrote:Getting a mavor under construction within a minute of gameplay is impossible without mods.
Building a mavor in under a minute, is still really really hard considering its build time.
Also, if you let them get enough resources to be able to build one within a minute, you were dead anyway.


Having a lot of resources doesn't equate to winning. You have to use them, too.

And can everyone stop saying "let them" do this? Sometimes your opponent will do something you tried and failed to stop. You didn't "let" them do anything.


If your enemy can gather enough resources to build a mavor, whether he does it over time, or waits until he has enough Engies+SCs to build it in under a minute, you have lost twenty dollars and my self respect. At that point, they can use those resources to kill you in any number of ways, with or without a mavor.
The level of income disparity there has to be for you enemy to be able to even consider building a mavor is an indicator that you have failed.
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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby Amnesiasoft » Thu Oct 16, 2008 7:43 am UTC

ACU-LP wrote:If they have a large farm; you can easily set off a chain reaction of exploding generators despite heavy defense.

Not if you set them up right.just one tile is enough to keep a chain reaction from starting, and that one tile distance between things can be filled with storage units. A fully linked set of storage units also increases the output of the generator by 50%.

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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby ACU-LP » Thu Oct 16, 2008 10:17 am UTC

Amnesiasoft wrote:
ACU-LP wrote:If they have a large farm; you can easily set off a chain reaction of exploding generators despite heavy defense.

Not if you set them up right.just one tile is enough to keep a chain reaction from starting, and that one tile distance between things can be filled with storage units. A fully linked set of storage units also increases the output of the generator by 50%.
However, though using all those storages is efficient, the way I play causes me to need that unit count.
I Am Raven wrote:Math is like a penis: it can be very satisfactory, but also a pain in the ass.
Red vs Blue wrote:Wash: That was the worst throw ever. Of all time.
Caboose: Not my fault. Someone put a wall in my way.

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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby headprogrammingczar » Thu Oct 16, 2008 12:38 pm UTC

I'm thinking we should have a game night Friday at 8 (EST). With any luck, we will finish in time to migrate over to the TF2 night if we have one.
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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby BumpInTheNight » Fri Oct 17, 2008 4:42 am UTC

Okay, anyone know what the deal is with why Forged Alliance runs like a slug when you have the multiple rings of 'visual/range/sensors' etc enabled on units you have selected? Like really how much more is it taking to visually display a few circles around stuff to me vs just having the engine know it. Am I just just facing a weird anomaly here? 70+FPS when I don't have anything highlighted vs 20fps when I do.

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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby ACU-LP » Fri Oct 17, 2008 11:33 am UTC

BumpInTheNight wrote:Okay, anyone know what the deal is with why Forged Alliance runs like a slug when you have the multiple rings of 'visual/range/sensors' etc enabled on units you have selected? Like really how much more is it taking to visually display a few circles around stuff to me vs just having the engine know it. Am I just just facing a weird anomaly here? 70+FPS when I don't have anything highlighted vs 20fps when I do.
When I display all unit's ranges etc at once, it slows down too. I'm guessing thats to do with some awkward coding.
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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby Dr Strangelove » Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:39 pm UTC

I played this game for a while at a friend's place. And it just seemed really...meh. It wasn't bad, certainly not, it was just...bland. Little units that all look much the same, maps where terrain does not play a significant part. Just...not my cup of tea. Anyone else have the same feeling?
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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby ACU-LP » Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:47 pm UTC

Dr Strangelove wrote:I played this game for a while at a friend's place. And it just seemed really...meh. It wasn't bad, certainly not, it was just...bland. Little units that all look much the same, maps where terrain does not play a significant part. Just...not my cup of tea. Anyone else have the same feeling?
How long did you play? And what sort of situation?
An engaging way to start playing the game is to play the first forged alliance mission. It throws you straight into the action, and you have to learn quick. It is more fun that way.
There are plans for units that can effect terrain and weather effects such as dust storms for later versions (however these are unconfirmed rumors).
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Gunfingers
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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby Gunfingers » Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:59 pm UTC

Supreme Commander is different from many other RTSs, in that in most RTSs you operate at the tactical level. Small unit stuff, where you want to take the high-ground and maneuver your units in a specific way to get the best out of their damage.

SupCom operates at the strategic level. You don't care about the high-ground at that point, that's for low-level combat leaders (or, in this case, is simply programmed into the robots). Your job is supposed to be simply getting the army raised and giving attack orders. I'm grossly over-simplifying, of course, but that's why many of those little details are not as prevalent in this game.

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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby ACU-LP » Tue Oct 21, 2008 1:28 pm UTC

What gunfingers said.
However, you can always hold low level, low cap matches on small maps so as to still be able to play at the tactical level.
I found that the ice campaign level for UEF where you have to save the science lab, etc. When you are assaulting the main enemy base, hills and such are vital to your success.
I Am Raven wrote:Math is like a penis: it can be very satisfactory, but also a pain in the ass.
Red vs Blue wrote:Wash: That was the worst throw ever. Of all time.
Caboose: Not my fault. Someone put a wall in my way.


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