Supreme Commander

Of the Tabletop, and other, lesser varieties.

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headprogrammingczar
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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby headprogrammingczar » Tue Oct 21, 2008 9:03 pm UTC

Terrain is still an enormously important aspect. In addition to the obvious terrain exploits (creating bottlenecks, amphibious attacks), you can use hills as walls by building inside its "shadow". For example, on Isis, build your radar right behind the dirt wall, as close as you can to a steep slope. Tanks can't get it, arty can't get it, hell, even bombers can't get it unless they pass from the side or behind. Certain slopes make certain attacks less potent too. Arty shooting onto the back end of a hill has lower accuracy because the slope makes time delay to impact more significant. bumpy terrain makes Cybran units useless, and there is no simple elevation advantage. You need to place them below the inflection point of the hill if the enemy is close, or at the peak of the hill if they are far away. I can continue...

Edit: who's up for a game tomorrow afternoon? It is the only opening in my strange schedule for a while.
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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby EdgarJPublius » Tue Oct 21, 2008 9:29 pm UTC

headprogrammingczar wrote:Terrain is still an enormously important aspect. In addition to the obvious terrain exploits (creating bottlenecks, amphibious attacks), you can use hills as walls by building inside its "shadow". For example, on Isis, build your radar right behind the dirt wall, as close as you can to a steep slope. Tanks can't get it, arty can't get it, hell, even bombers can't get it unless they pass from the side or behind. Certain slopes make certain attacks less potent too. Arty shooting onto the back end of a hill has lower accuracy because the slope makes time delay to impact more significant. bumpy terrain makes Cybran units useless, and there is no simple elevation advantage. You need to place them below the inflection point of the hill if the enemy is close, or at the peak of the hill if they are far away. I can continue...

Edit: who's up for a game tomorrow afternoon? It is the only opening in my strange schedule for a while.


I am 100% free tomorrow afternoon (barring the likely occurence of unforseen events)
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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby Azrael001 » Tue Oct 21, 2008 9:31 pm UTC

I may try to play, though if the game is big and lasts more than an hour my computer will likely overheat and shut down. I hear that that is a major problem for Toshiba laptops.
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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby headprogrammingczar » Tue Oct 21, 2008 9:55 pm UTC

So it looks like we will be playing then. So far we have:
*headprogrammingczar
*C4Pottery (not on this forum)
*EdgarJPublius
*Azrael001
*3:00 EST
*Fields of Isis(?)
*No-Rush off
*unit cap 1000
*Assassination
*No prebuilt units

Anything I missed?

Edit: Azrael, one way to fix the problem is to pause frequently. The game state timer can get ahead of the actual data (some sort of problem with their threading system) and when the gap gets too big, it crashes. Try pausing late into a game. It should continue for a few seconds (at a higher frame rate than before). Once I figured this out I was able to play indefinitely. Another performance issue is the AI. In addition to being processor heavy (ignore whatever the wiki page says), it also has debilitating logic bugs that make some of the AI's unable to get to tech 3.
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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby Azrael001 » Tue Oct 21, 2008 10:25 pm UTC

I think that my problem is a hardware problem rather than a software one. There was a time that everything worked fine.

Also what will I need to download to be copatible with everyone else?
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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby EdgarJPublius » Wed Oct 22, 2008 3:39 am UTC

I might be going out to lunch with my brother tomorrow, so I might not be able to make it.

If I can, then I'd prefer a larger map for a four person game, 20x20 at least.
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I wrote:Does Space Teddy Roosevelt wrestle Space Bears and fight the Space Spanish-American War with his band of Space-volunteers the Space Rough Riders?

Yes.

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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby Mane » Wed Oct 22, 2008 7:32 am UTC

I...don't really like Supcom, for me, someone who waited several years for it, the release of the game was rather...weak, the factions didn't have the flavors described in the original previews, the game requires a retard amount of everything to run correctly (which I don't have, and don't have the means to drop 1000s to upgrade to those levels), and the lack of developer support after the disaster of FA, just killed the game for me.

I mean, there were some big things, and some minor things, but in general it seemed like terrain was only really important if GPG had fucked up the units in the first place, like the Rhino's inability to fire at any sort of angle, or any of the laser turret based units firing at targets they couldn't hit while others walked up on them.

I mean, it's been nearly a year since SC:E has first hinted about, and as far as I can tell from the official forums, most people, including some of the Devs, have moved on, ether to other games with the company, or just in general.

All-in-all, I can't say I really like supcom, and frankly, I look at as a sort of 'how not to do' a game; don't over sell of hype it, don't talk about shit in your game years before it's released, if you can't be sure it will be in there when it's released, don't abandon your game, don't listen to player's on their opinions on how the game should be balanced, and finally, would it kill them to have maps that weren't just mirrored terrain and to include bridges/water transports?

I'm not saying I didn't have good times with the game, but to me it's pretty much dead--I'll keep a weather eye out for Experimental, but somehow I think that's been put into developer hell.

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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby ACU-LP » Wed Oct 22, 2008 7:59 am UTC

Mane wrote:*psuedo-rant*
Sure, SupCom has had its problems, but FA a disaster? Also, as I have said many times before; there are many mods that build upon faction 'flavours'. Also, I dont think I've found a game which I cant say similar things about (on the level of what is wrong with them). And if you think that it was over-hyped, then I have one word for you; PS3. And whilst I'm at it, for crappiness Xbox 360. These are entire consoles that suck on a level MUCH greater than that of SupCom. Sure it has its problems, but is it really that bad when you compare it to other games?
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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby headprogrammingczar » Wed Oct 22, 2008 12:11 pm UTC

Azrael001 wrote:I think that my problem is a hardware problem rather than a software one. There was a time that everything worked fine.

Also what will I need to download to be copatible with everyone else?

Just open GPGNet and let it do its thing.
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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby ACU-LP » Wed Oct 22, 2008 12:20 pm UTC

Whenever I log into GPG-net. All it says is that its going to download the latest patch. It wont let me go anywhere until it has, yet nothing happens on my end. No patch comes through. It doesnt even start.
I Am Raven wrote:Math is like a penis: it can be very satisfactory, but also a pain in the ass.
Red vs Blue wrote:Wash: That was the worst throw ever. Of all time.
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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby headprogrammingczar » Wed Oct 22, 2008 2:54 pm UTC

ACU-LP wrote:Whenever I log into GPG-net. All it says is that its going to download the latest patch. It wont let me go anywhere until it has, yet nothing happens on my end. No patch comes through. It doesnt even start.

It is updating the GPGNet client, which takes friggin forever. Just let it go for about an hour, and if it doesn't do that, you can do a manual patch. Just google the update file for v1.5.225.1. Once that is done, log on and it will autopatch the game, which will have progress indicators.
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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby headprogrammingczar » Wed Oct 22, 2008 5:44 pm UTC

I'm ready now. If anyone wants to join, hurry.
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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby Azrael001 » Wed Oct 22, 2008 6:28 pm UTC

I am now going online.

I can't remember if my GPG name is Cadell, or Cadell001

It is Cadell.

What are the names of everyone else?
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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby EdgarJPublius » Wed Oct 22, 2008 6:42 pm UTC

I'm on, but apparently I have been banned from every public chat channel for some reason?

My username's zephyr256k
Roosevelt wrote:
I wrote:Does Space Teddy Roosevelt wrestle Space Bears and fight the Space Spanish-American War with his band of Space-volunteers the Space Rough Riders?

Yes.

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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby Azrael001 » Wed Oct 22, 2008 6:44 pm UTC

I am in Halcyon, perhaps you can join it now?
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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby EdgarJPublius » Wed Oct 22, 2008 6:47 pm UTC

it says I've been banned
Roosevelt wrote:
I wrote:Does Space Teddy Roosevelt wrestle Space Bears and fight the Space Spanish-American War with his band of Space-volunteers the Space Rough Riders?

Yes.

-still unaware of the origin and meaning of his own user-title

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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby Azrael001 » Wed Oct 22, 2008 6:49 pm UTC

That is regrettable.

Can you start a game called xkcd, and I'll join?

The scheduled time is almost upon us, the others should be here soon.

Edit: I have sent a friend request. This should make things easier.
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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby EdgarJPublius » Wed Oct 22, 2008 6:51 pm UTC

go it
Roosevelt wrote:
I wrote:Does Space Teddy Roosevelt wrestle Space Bears and fight the Space Spanish-American War with his band of Space-volunteers the Space Rough Riders?

Yes.

-still unaware of the origin and meaning of his own user-title

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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby EdgarJPublius » Wed Oct 22, 2008 7:05 pm UTC

alright, I'm on, I'm now Emperor_Norton_I I can chat and I'm patching
Roosevelt wrote:
I wrote:Does Space Teddy Roosevelt wrestle Space Bears and fight the Space Spanish-American War with his band of Space-volunteers the Space Rough Riders?

Yes.

-still unaware of the origin and meaning of his own user-title

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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby Azrael001 » Wed Oct 22, 2008 7:07 pm UTC

I have created an xkcd channel. People should go there.
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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby Azrael001 » Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:12 pm UTC

I lost my connection mid game. Awesome.

That is all.
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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby EdgarJPublius » Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:49 pm UTC

ypur side wasn't doing so good anyway, we beat them with a Mavor just before my army of monkeylords was ready
Roosevelt wrote:
I wrote:Does Space Teddy Roosevelt wrestle Space Bears and fight the Space Spanish-American War with his band of Space-volunteers the Space Rough Riders?

Yes.

-still unaware of the origin and meaning of his own user-title

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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby Mane » Wed Oct 22, 2008 9:57 pm UTC

ACU-LP wrote:
Mane wrote:*psuedo-rant*
Sure, SupCom has had its problems,

Sup com, the original un-rebalanced game, didn't have that many problems compared to FA.

but FA a disaster?

first, the introduced a new faction, which wasn't needed.
Second, they rebalanced the game completely because of a few people whining that PDs/AA/eco farms were too strong
Thirdly, they turned the game into more or less a t2 rush, that is, if you survived past T1; T3 was an unlikely goal to reach, although it could be done in skilled hands.
Nerfing, in general, is miss-handed by the Devs, rather then nerfing a unit to make it not op, they nerfed to the point were it was powerless, case and point, the Mercy.
Introduced a bunch of useless, or nearly useless, units, like sniper bots, or those god-awful firebeetles or weird anti-shield tanks of the Aeon.
And, some of these new units feel like re-hashing of old units, for a different fraction, like the Seraphim's T4 bot, and the super nuclear launcher.

Also, as I have said many times before; there are many mods that build upon faction 'flavours'.

I shouldn't need a third party mod to do what the developer should have done in the first place.

SupCom. Sure it has its problems, but is it really that bad when you compare it to other games?

Yes.
Take, for example, Sins of a Solar Empire, this game is really what Supcom should have been about, unique play styles for each fraction, while not compromising balance.

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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby headprogrammingczar » Thu Oct 23, 2008 2:01 am UTC

EdgarJPublius wrote:ypur side wasn't doing so good anyway, we beat them with a Mavor just before my army of monkeylords was ready

That was YOU? I thought you guys didn't show up, so I started the game with what I thought were different people...
Anyway, next game will be FFA on one of the "lake" maps, same time next Wednesday (2:00 EST). Let me know you guys are XKCD when you join, so I can add you to the clan. I always use headprogrammingczar, except for TF2 because I am borrowing from a friend.
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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby EdgarJPublius » Thu Oct 23, 2008 2:12 am UTC

We thought nobody else had showed up so we joined a different game too.

I don't think you were in ours though.
Roosevelt wrote:
I wrote:Does Space Teddy Roosevelt wrestle Space Bears and fight the Space Spanish-American War with his band of Space-volunteers the Space Rough Riders?

Yes.

-still unaware of the origin and meaning of his own user-title

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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby ACU-LP » Thu Oct 23, 2008 12:24 pm UTC

Woo! New 4th dimension update (4.93) that fixed a couple of bugs (namely aircraft not being able to fire upon an air factory). And also a function that allows you to turn off their explosion animations (for processing power I'm guessing, because they're too awesome to turn off otherwise)
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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby Gowerly » Tue Oct 28, 2008 9:52 am UTC

Damn, I stop paying attention and miss all this.

The eco farming in vanilla was dire. Land control was unimportant (Unconquerable vs.. er, I forget) showed that owning 3/4 of the map with mexes wasn't as useful as just building a fab farm. Useless. FA is the way. More action, more spam (which is fun), more crazy strategies (trust me, they work).
I'm not too fond of 4th D. It seems to be a masturbatory mix of progressively more powerful units, and I simply don't seem to enjoy playing it.
Phantoms are good fun, though, if anyone wants something that's not a normal game ;)
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Re: Earlier post about UEF exps not sucking. They do.
You don't "sneak" with a fatboy against anyone who's any good. You never build a mavor, really, the game shouldn't really be lasting that long (at least not the ones I play).
Yeah, there are some balance issues with the game, but it's still one of the best games I've ever played.
I'm also Gowerly on the GPG forums, I'm usually discussing some kind of eco or unit mathematics.

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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby Gowerly » Tue Nov 25, 2008 12:27 pm UTC

Double post, gasp.
Alright, so, after finding a way to upgrade a mass fabricator (it's been in since vanilla!), it reminded me that I've not played any of you guys on here.
Do any of you use GPGnet? Post your usernames!

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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby SecondTalon » Tue Nov 25, 2008 1:31 pm UTC

Or they could use the thread at the top for that purpose.
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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby Gowerly » Tue Nov 25, 2008 3:10 pm UTC

Oh yeah. My apologies.
Sadly, this isn't done, though. Supposedly there's an xkcd channel on GPGnet when people are on, but I've not seen it, which should tell me something :(

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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby headprogrammingczar » Tue Nov 25, 2008 9:12 pm UTC

I'll get on tomorrow. PM me. I'm on as headprogrammingczar.
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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby Phen » Tue Nov 25, 2008 10:56 pm UTC

Wish I had spotted that someone was planning a game earlier. I've picked the game up again, but I havn't actually played any humans, yet... Afraid I'll get wtfpwn'd too hard.
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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby Gowerly » Wed Nov 26, 2008 2:06 pm UTC

You probably will, but it's the best way to learn. Watch some of the replays for good inital build strategies.

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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby Phen » Wed Nov 26, 2008 10:29 pm UTC

The primary reason for buying FA was getting to watch replays. :D And, say, I think I saw your name in a replay I just watched...
I'm a wizard. We know these things.

In war, one should seek to take and hold the high ground. From there, the enemy's movements are clearly visible, and he will struggle just to reach you, let alone fight you. High orbit is the highest ground there is.

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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby headprogrammingczar » Wed Nov 26, 2008 11:57 pm UTC

Gowerly wrote:You probably will, but it's the best way to learn. Watch some of the replays for good inital build strategies.

The build order I use is mex-2 power generators-factory-more mexes
Then I have the engineers build power while my commander finds every mass deposit on my side of the map.
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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby ACU-LP » Thu Nov 27, 2008 12:15 am UTC

And that is why I will never be able to effectively take on human opponents; I'm too weak in the early game and others will take hold of that (and no rush doesnt give enough room to move). Also, even sorian AI doesnt stock up mass armies of experimentals (ok, it does 2 megaliths and 6 spiderbots at once, but these can be taken out by nukes), whereas people can.
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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby Gowerly » Thu Nov 27, 2008 11:20 am UTC

headprogrammingczar wrote:
Gowerly wrote:You probably will, but it's the best way to learn. Watch some of the replays for good inital build strategies.

The build order I use is mex-2 power generators-factory-more mexes
Then I have the engineers build power while my commander finds every mass deposit on my side of the map.

Vanilla yes, ish, FA no.
Vanilla build order, IIRC is power, power, mex, mex, fac, then more power and mexes, rush to t2, get a t2 engineer and build t2 power and t1 fabs until you have all the mass in the world (it's more efficient than mexes, stupidly)

FA build order: fac, power, power, mex, mex (forego the power if you can get to and build a hydro before the 5th mex is finished), then get all the mexes. Comm has the build power of 2 t1 engineers, and the fighting power of 20 t1 tanks, so do the math there.


Phen wrote:The primary reason for buying FA was getting to watch replays. :D And, say, I think I saw your name in a replay I just watched...

If I ran up to someone and blew up, or speed upgraded my acu to t3, got in a transport, landed in their base and t1 pd spammed their entire base, that was probably me, yes.

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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby ACU-LP » Mon Dec 08, 2008 7:34 am UTC

I just noticed that there was apparently an announcement for a second Supreme Commander.
Shall we dare attempt to anticipate its content?
I Am Raven wrote:Math is like a penis: it can be very satisfactory, but also a pain in the ass.
Red vs Blue wrote:Wash: That was the worst throw ever. Of all time.
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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby headprogrammingczar » Mon Dec 08, 2008 2:19 pm UTC

We already know the game mechanics will consist of "big, awesome, explodey things". The real question is will this one's largest maps be actually playable on mid-level computers?
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Re: Supreme Commander

Postby ACU-LP » Mon Dec 08, 2008 8:25 pm UTC

Well, if its still stupidly processor intensive, I can survive, but if they can find a way round the ram application problem, it'd be brilliant.
And make the size differences bigger. Like really, REALLY huge experimentals.
I Am Raven wrote:Math is like a penis: it can be very satisfactory, but also a pain in the ass.
Red vs Blue wrote:Wash: That was the worst throw ever. Of all time.
Caboose: Not my fault. Someone put a wall in my way.


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