Now That I Think Of It... (Pokemon Red/Blue)

Of the Tabletop, and other, lesser varieties.

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Which Pokemon did you pick the first time?

Bulbasaur
44
34%
Squirtle
44
34%
Charmander
43
33%
 
Total votes: 131

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Kag
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Re: Now That I Think Of It... (Pokemon Red/Blue)

Postby Kag » Sat Mar 22, 2008 4:48 am UTC

I'm pretty sure you can find them in the safari zone.
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Gelsamel
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Re: Now That I Think Of It... (Pokemon Red/Blue)

Postby Gelsamel » Sat Mar 22, 2008 5:34 am UTC

In any case parasect sucks D:<

Anyway, Ninjask and Yanmega are decent bug pokemon in newer generations. Ninjask is probably the best all around opening pokemon because you can baton pass his speed boost and any swords dances you manage to get off while substituting.
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Re: Now That I Think Of It... (Pokemon Red/Blue)

Postby Blatm » Sat Mar 22, 2008 7:59 pm UTC

I just finished off the E4 in Blue. As expected, it was trivial with Gyarados (L46ish), Kadabra (L43ish), and the 3 birds (all level 51ish). I also had a Venusaur with me, but I didn't use it. It would be harder, and therefore a better game if the AI were any good, but they're not. I can see unintelligent pokemon found in the wild not always making the best move, but it's bothersome to see me reduce one of Lance's pokemon to only a sliver, and then have him use something dumb like growl (or the level 62 equivilent for the leader of the E4, so leer). I hope this was fixed in later games.

Then I went off and caught Mewtwo.

I doubt I'll continue playing now, though. There's not much left to do. So far, my pokedex is up to 65ish, but if I took the time to level them up and evolve them, I could be much closer to completion, but that seems tedious. Not counting ones I'm missing from evolution, I'm missing about 10 + their evolutions + the ones I can't get (e.g. Charmander, Ekans).

I never thought it was very appealing to try and get them all, just tedious. Maybe I'm wrong though, because I never tried.

I also doubt many people have gotten all 150, as it requires a good amount of resources. (I'm sure I'll promptly be proven wrong though).

Maybe I'll play through G/S now...

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Re: Now That I Think Of It... (Pokemon Red/Blue)

Postby Amnesiasoft » Sat Mar 22, 2008 10:52 pm UTC

Blatm wrote:I also doubt many people have gotten all 150, as it requires a good amount of resources. (I'm sure I'll promptly be proven wrong though).

Or just a copy of both games and enough gameboys to choke a horse (1 Pocket, 3 Color, 1 Advance).

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Re: Now That I Think Of It... (Pokemon Red/Blue)

Postby Jack Saladin » Sat Mar 22, 2008 11:37 pm UTC

I hope this was fixed in later games.

Hell no they haven't. Even in Diamond the AI refuses to take into account anything about the battle - fighting a water Pokemon? Use Water Sport, of course! Fighting an electric type? Get yours out and use Spark repeatedly!

Sigh. The entire game is incredibly, painfully easy just because of how stupid the AI is. They really need a "Hard" mode. Hell, they need a "Normal" mode.

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Re: Now That I Think Of It... (Pokemon Red/Blue)

Postby __Kit » Sat Mar 22, 2008 11:54 pm UTC

The game is easy, but you wouldn't believe how retarded some people are ATM we have 5 people on our bus that are playing it each about 15, and they really struggle, but yeah a hrad mode would be great.

Bulbasaur represent, I only liked him because no one else did.
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Gelsamel
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Re: Now That I Think Of It... (Pokemon Red/Blue)

Postby Gelsamel » Sun Mar 23, 2008 2:54 am UTC

Fearbears?! wrote:
I hope this was fixed in later games.

Hell no they haven't. Even in Diamond the AI refuses to take into account anything about the battle - fighting a water Pokemon? Use Water Sport, of course! Fighting an electric type? Get yours out and use Spark repeatedly!

Sigh. The entire game is incredibly, painfully easy just because of how stupid the AI is. They really need a "Hard" mode. Hell, they need a "Normal" mode.


Except for Battle Tower...

Battle Tower is actually REALLY hard without a perfect group with perfect skills and perfect EVs.
"Give up here?"
- > No
"Do you accept defeat?"
- > No
"Do you think games are silly little things?"
- > No
"Is it all pointless?"
- > No
"Do you admit there is no meaning to this world?"
- > No

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Re: Now That I Think Of It... (Pokemon Red/Blue)

Postby ParanoidDrone » Mon Mar 24, 2008 4:17 am UTC

I picked Bulbasaur my first time through because I heard that it was immune to the poison from Weedle's Poison Sting. Of course, it meant that it was immune to the poison status, but I thought it meant that it was immune to the attack. >_<

On the other hand, I still pick Bulbasaur when replaying Blue or LG, since it just rapes the first two gyms. (The early ones are always the hardest imo. Exception granted for Whitney and her <censored> Miltank.)

At the risk of going slightly off-topic (I'm too lazy to read all the replies to see where the conversation's going atm.), my Silver starter was Cyndaquil, I actually can't remember who I used in Sapphire (I know it wasn't Torchic...), and I picked Piplup in Diamond.

Wow, I brutally raped and abused parentheses and then murdered their family there, didn't I? o_o
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Re: Now That I Think Of It... (Pokemon Red/Blue)

Postby TheAmazingRando » Mon Mar 24, 2008 6:32 am UTC

I always picked Bulbasaur. Razor Leaf FTW.
But he wasn't my main. I finished Red with a lvl 100 Pidgeot and a lvl 100 Dragonite.
I don't even like Pidgeot, I don't know why I got him so high.

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Re: Now That I Think Of It... (Pokemon Red/Blue)

Postby Amnesiasoft » Tue Mar 25, 2008 12:36 am UTC

ParanoidDrone wrote:Wow, I brutally raped and abused parentheses and then murdered their family there, didn't I? o_o

I've seen and done worse. Far, far worse.

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Re: Now That I Think Of It... (Pokemon Red/Blue)

Postby ParanoidDrone » Tue Mar 25, 2008 12:45 am UTC

I'm getting mixed signals from my brain. Do I or don't I want to see it?

**** it, do you have any examples? *prepares blindfold in case of emergency*
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Re: Now That I Think Of It... (Pokemon Red/Blue)

Postby Ishindri » Tue Mar 25, 2008 12:53 am UTC

I had Yellow Version. Nevertheless, in my copy of Leaf Green, I chose Bulbasaur. Grass-types for the win. My favorite type is invariably Psychic, though.
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Re: Now That I Think Of It... (Pokemon Red/Blue)

Postby Gelsamel » Tue Mar 25, 2008 1:57 am UTC

Gardevoir \m/

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Favourite Pokemon

Oh yeah, Shiny Gardevoir

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<3
"Give up here?"
- > No
"Do you accept defeat?"
- > No
"Do you think games are silly little things?"
- > No
"Is it all pointless?"
- > No
"Do you admit there is no meaning to this world?"
- > No

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Re: Now That I Think Of It... (Pokemon Red/Blue)

Postby ParanoidDrone » Tue Mar 25, 2008 2:37 am UTC

Gelsamel wrote:*Gardevoir stuff*

*glomps Gelsamel*

Finally, another Gardevoir fan! ^_^
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Re: Now That I Think Of It... (Pokemon Red/Blue)

Postby cephalopod9 » Tue Mar 25, 2008 6:20 am UTC

Bulbasaur is the cutest.
Also sleep powder + leech seed FTW.
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Re: Now That I Think Of It... (Pokemon Red/Blue)

Postby IceBurner » Tue Mar 25, 2008 7:21 pm UTC

Charizard was my pick and I played all the way through, but Red/Blue weren't technically mine. My first was Yellow so ...

There are no direct negative effects from delaying evolution. The only loss might be any moves on a the higher form's list but not on the lower's. Exmple: Charizard gains flying type and learns Wing Attack, but not Charmander or Charmeleon.

The myth that traded pokemon don't gain as much in their stats is also untrue:

Stats work like such:
A pokemon always has at least 10 HP and 1 in every other stat. Bare minimum starting point so the game engine won't crash.

On top of this, every individual species/evolution has a set of base stats.
Interesting side note:
Spoiler:
If you ever hear about pokemon being in "tiers" this comes from adding up the base stats of each pokemon. When you do, there are pretty obvious "groups" with stats adding up to about the same total and a bit of a gap between them. Mewtwo and such are 100 points ahead of most pokemon, even other "legends". Every starter pokemon ends up with something a little higher than most wild pokemon and has the exact same total base stats, just distributed differently.


Here's where we starts to see variation: Added are up to 16 (32 in GBA and DS) extra stat points from "genes", also called "Inherant values" or IV's. These are randomized and set when encountered or when an egg reaches the "making a lot of noise, about to hatch!" phase. They never change. The whole breeding business can pass on up to 3 IV's from between the two parents, in addition to those mvoes and such.

Then there's where YOU inflluence stats: "effort value" or EV. Every time your pokemon gains EXP they also gain EV points. Unlike experience, EV points are given per the species KO'd regardless of level, and such points go toward individual stats. Examples: Pidgey +1 Spd EV pts, Pidgeotto +2, Pidgeot +3. Geodude 1 Def EV pts, Graveler +2, etc). Divide the # of EV points in one stat by 4 to get the bonus toward that stat.
Nitty-gritty details:
Spoiler:
In GB and GBC games, you could always gain EV points until maxed in every stat. The best way to ensure this was to fight Unown as each one KO'd gave +1 EV point in every stat. Max of 256 EV points in each stat. The game only recalculates current stats on level up, or upon being removed from storage. If you hit level 100 before maxing out EVs, the only way to get any addtional EVp to be counted was to visit a Pokemon Center. Use the computer to store the pokemon, exit it, and then go back and withdraw it. This is known as "The Box Trick".

In GBA and DS games, you have a cap of 512 total across all stats and 256 in each stat, so you can only max out two at best. Pokemon stop gaining EXP at therefore EVp at level 100! Any EV training must be completed by level 99 at the latest. The Macho Brace doubles the EVp gained by the pokemon holding it, and the EXP Share also shares EV points...too bad they can't be used together!

Vitamins each add 10EVp to the stat they say they affect. Not sure about in GB/GBC, but in GBA/DS, vitamins can no longer be used on a stat once it has 100 EVp. In GBA/DS the only way a level 100 pokemon can possibly gain any EVp is through vitamins and the box trick, assuming it has under 100 EVp in whatever stat you'd like to raise.

This is where the myth that traded pokemon gain lower stats comes from: the exp boost means they fight less battles to get to the same level as a non-trade, so they've gained less EVs and therefore look weaker. Doesn't mean fighting more can't correct that.

Finally, all stat information is stored by the game system as if for level 100, and then current stats are calculated using the pokemon's current level like a %. At level 5 a Pokemon has 5% of its final power. This affects absolutely everything but the minimum 10Hp/1 other stats.


Last thing I'd like to mention is that while normal NPC trainers suck, have no EV training on their pokemon, and use the wild pokemon AI, the gym leaders/Elite Four all use custom AI and their pokemon often have perfectly-rigged IV and EV bonuses. Honestly, I think Game Freak's pretty cruel hiding all this junk in a game marketed toward young children.

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Re: Now That I Think Of It... (Pokemon Red/Blue)

Postby Blatm » Tue Mar 25, 2008 10:41 pm UTC

cephalopod9 wrote:Bulbasaur is the cutest.
Also Toxic + leech seed FTW.


...Which will K.O. any pokemon in 4 rounds unless it's switched out.

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Re: Now That I Think Of It... (Pokemon Red/Blue)

Postby ParanoidDrone » Tue Mar 25, 2008 11:06 pm UTC

Blatm wrote:
cephalopod9 wrote:Bulbasaur is the cutest.
Also Toxic + leech seed FTW.


...Which will K.O. any pokemon in 4 rounds unless it's switched out.

Except those immune to Toxic or Leech Seed (or both...). <_<
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Re: Now That I Think Of It... (Pokemon Red/Blue)

Postby Gelsamel » Wed Mar 26, 2008 2:53 pm UTC

Toxic + Leech Seed + Leftovers + an ability which regens HP in certain weather (is this combo possible?)= ouchies.

Anyway, you forgot Natures in the recent games IceBurner.

Also IceBurner, I'm pretty sure that the Elite Four/Gyms don't have Perfect IVs/EVs, maybe some, but the only time I've come across perfect EVs/IVs (ie. a pokemon outspeeding my 30 Spd IV, 252 Spd EV Weavile without scarf/buffs) was in Battle Tower.
"Give up here?"
- > No
"Do you accept defeat?"
- > No
"Do you think games are silly little things?"
- > No
"Is it all pointless?"
- > No
"Do you admit there is no meaning to this world?"
- > No

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Re: Now That I Think Of It... (Pokemon Red/Blue)

Postby IceBurner » Wed Mar 26, 2008 3:46 pm UTC

Actually, I just didn't want to get into natures, but since it's come up it's pretty simple: In Advance and DS generation pokemon games, every pokemon has a 32-bit integer which is essentially its virtual genetic code. It determines just about everyting, including gender, IVs, the spots on Spinda, what Wurmple will evolve into, which inherent ability it gets, shiny-ness, the type of pokeblocks it likes, and also "natures".

A "nature" is made to sound like a personality trait, such as "bold", "calm", "timid", "quirky", etc. They actually raise one stat and lower another by 10%. There's essentially a table with Attack, Defense, Speed, Sp Atk, & Sp Def, going across both axes. The stats on one axis are raised and the stats on the other are lowered, and each one of these intersections is given a name, as noted above. Where a stat meets itself is one of the five "neutral" natures.

Regarding NPC trainers, the Kanto elite four in Fire Red/Leaf Green do have "stacked" stats, since Lance's Aerodactyl can outspeed a less-than-perfect timid Jolteon at the same level. The elite four might not be EV trained, but the trainers in places such as battle tower sure are. The area leaders in the Stadium, Colosseum, , etc. battle facilities are definitely set up to have optimal IVs/EVs. While most of the opponents there aren't perfect, they're set up to be more challenging than the losers you battle all game long in the portable titles.

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Re: Now That I Think Of It... (Pokemon Red/Blue)

Postby Aradae » Wed Mar 26, 2008 5:20 pm UTC

I just learned about all that and I'm wondering, why do they keep them hidden stats? Obviously those are pretty significant factors in breeding/training/raising your pokemon and to get the most out of the game you have to know them. So why don't they just have something in the game that can tell us the IV's and EV's of a pokemon.
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Re: Now That I Think Of It... (Pokemon Red/Blue)

Postby ParanoidDrone » Wed Mar 26, 2008 7:19 pm UTC

Gelsamel wrote:Toxic + Leech Seed + Leftovers + an ability which regens HP in certain weather (is this combo possible?)= ouchies.

Ludicolo. Leech Seed + Toxic + Leftovers + Rain Dish.
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Re: Now That I Think Of It... (Pokemon Red/Blue)

Postby thecommabandit » Wed Mar 26, 2008 8:34 pm UTC

I picked Charmander the first time because that's who Ash picked in the TV show. My first Red cartridge (I had two) was bought from Canada when I was nine and I loved it dearly until one day it spazzed out on me and all the tilesets were wrong - I turned it on one day to find myself on a bike without the bike music playing and a mish-mash of tiles all around that were completely random =(

I've been playing Emerald the past few days (I picked Treecko because he looked the least lame). It's nifty but I forgot to save and consequently lost about three hours of play including that dark/ghost pokémon that eats gems that you find in a cave. Took me about nine more Great Balls to catch another one. I've got my lovely Leonard the Magikarp back though, and once I get the Exp. Share from the president of Devon he'll be an ass-kicking serpent in no time.
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Re: Now That I Think Of It... (Pokemon Red/Blue)

Postby IceBurner » Wed Mar 26, 2008 11:52 pm UTC

My guess is that Game Freak keeps most of the info hidden to keep from turning off the primary audience -- young kids. They have added some features in each game which indirectly give away very minimal information about hidden stats.

The move "Hidden power" changes strength and type with the IVs of your pokemon. It's possible to determine what possible IV spreads it could have if you are able to determine the strength and type of hidden power. It's easy enough to determine the type by hitting a wild Kecleon with Hidden Power. Save, teach the TM to your pokemon, smack one around, and then reset after writing it down or memorizing the result.

There's one person someplace in Emerald, in Battle Frontier I believe. They will tell you what your pokemon's "best feature" is, saying something like "Oh yes, definitely its speed!" What this NPC actually does is tell you which stat the pokemon's highest IV is in. Using a table that can be probably found several places online by now, you can use the exact phrase he utters to get a rough idea of that hidden stat's value.

Battle Frontier also has some other gimmicks you can use to determine other hidden stats, but I can't recall them offhand.

Also, there's a woman in Slateport in Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald who will give each pokemon a "ribbon" once they've hit the max of 512 EV points. The ribbon is a trophy-type award, like you earn in from the pet shows. If they're not maxed she will tell you to "put more effort into it!"

If you want to EV train a pokemon that has earned EXP before, Emerald and the DS games have berries that will subtract 10 EVs from a given stat's amount. They're the ones which say "may lower <insert stat here>". This feature is only in Emerald, DIamond and Sapphire (maybe the Wii title too). This is only a neccesary consideration in GBA and DS generation games. There was no overall cap on EV points in Red/Blue/Yellow and Gold/Silver/Crystal, so you could always max EVp for every stat. That is, unless your eyes bled and you lost your mind first.

There are pokemon stat calculators available on various websites. If you've kept track of EV points gained, or used ONLY the Day Care (gives EXP w/no EVp) or Rare Candies to level a pokemon to 50, you can use that to figure out IVs nearly dead-certain, and then check the type of Hidden Power to clinch it. Since I have so many games, Pokemon Box, and Gamefly, I'd stockpiled nearly 40 of the darn things before I finally got tired of the utter madness I endeavored toward.

Finally, if you crave vs action but all the stuff I've written seems utterly retarded and time-consuming, there's Pokemon NetBattle Online for PCs. It's online pokemon VS which cuts out 99% of the crap; just pick your pokemon, its moves, and stats (even hidden ones) and fight. It's mostly text-based with limited graphics and no animation, but then again so are (most of) the official games -- and NB moves faster. Since the only situations you'd ever need to go to such anal lengths for are competetive battling or taking on Battle <facility name here>, NetBattle is a great time-saver and convenience.

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Re: Now That I Think Of It... (Pokemon Red/Blue)

Postby Aradae » Thu Mar 27, 2008 12:31 am UTC

Sounds insane. I think I'm fine though just playing without knowing the knitty gritty details. As long as I know the basics and the logic of the whole stat system (fight speedy pokemon, increase speed), I think I'll be just fine. Who knows, it may just be a lot more fun not knowing and just experimenting. I really have no idea how to get a lot of the Pokemon or what levels they may do so. I guess ignorance is bliss because I get kind of excited when I figure it out for myself without looking online or in a guide.

Thanks for the details however.
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Re: Now That I Think Of It... (Pokemon Red/Blue)

Postby cephalopod9 » Fri Mar 28, 2008 12:25 am UTC

Sleep powder + leech seed lets you swap out for weaker, injured pokemon, which is what I like. If I remember correctly pokemon can't be poisoned and asleep.
I don't remember my ivysaur learned toxic anyways. (I gave it the everstone, because venasaur isn't cute). I should get to finishing that game...
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Re: Now That I Think Of It... (Pokemon Red/Blue)

Postby thecommabandit » Fri Mar 28, 2008 10:40 am UTC

I don't know about that, I've had pokemon in a few combinations of paralyzed, asleep, poisoned and confused (only ever two at a time though since most pokemon don't have enough moves for that).
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Re: Now That I Think Of It... (Pokemon Red/Blue)

Postby IceBurner » Fri Mar 28, 2008 3:21 pm UTC

Pokemon can only have one "visible" negative condition at a time. These bad conditions are are visibly indicated in the status readout, like the way it read "PSN" for poisoned condition in older games. This includes poison/toxic poison, paralysis, freeze, burn, or sleep. Confusion, stat-down, leech seed, and other bad conditions that don't show in the status area can all stack.

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Re: Now That I Think Of It... (Pokemon Red/Blue)

Postby Mo0man » Tue Apr 01, 2008 2:00 am UTC

thecommabandit wrote:I've been playing Emerald the past few days (I picked Treecko because he looked the least lame).

Isn't the pic you see at the beginning that stupid T stance?
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