Left 4 fun (and Zombie Panic Source)

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Re: Left 4 fun (and Zombie Panic Source)

Postby Zuffox » Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:36 pm UTC

Bakemaster wrote:I find Smoker to be the most difficult Infected to learn to play, and to play effectively. Good grabs are a wonderful thing to see, but hard to pull off against a team of survivors that are relatively competent, except perhaps in certain rooms. And even the best grab doesn't generally mean anything unless the other survivors are trapped by a horde, or your hunters are synchronized well.

I think my biggest complaint about playing versus is that friendly fire damage is so incredibly low, and there are so few places where a horde can do any damage by itself because bashing in a corner is so very effective. You can boom the whole group of survivors without one of them taking damage, if they have a corner.

Playing a Smoker requires knowing where to pull from - e.g. No Mercy 5. It isn't as intuitive as a Hunter (save for wall-jumping and pouncing from a distance) and the Boomer. They also seem bugged oftentimes, be it hit detection or just being able to get that good-to-go red reticule that for some reason f's up on occasion.

Horde are also kinda gimped, considering closeting and sticking together in groups. Their sole priority seems to stop a team or slow them, as well as damaging people incapped, adding to the pressure of having to save them as soon as possible.

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Re: Left 4 fun (and Zombie Panic Source)

Postby Bakemaster » Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:06 pm UTC

That reminds me, I read somewhere a comment about doing something in order to make sure the tongue didn't break, but it wasn't clear what they were talking about. It seems the mechanics of smokers are not very well explained. Anyone have some tips? Even/particularly those that would seem obvious to the experienced?

All I really know is, wait for recharge, point at someone, click. Sometimes it works. Sometimes nothing happens.
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Re: Left 4 fun (and Zombie Panic Source)

Postby headprogrammingczar » Fri Feb 20, 2009 11:53 pm UTC

Bakemaster wrote:That reminds me, I read somewhere a comment about doing something in order to make sure the tongue didn't break, but it wasn't clear what they were talking about. It seems the mechanics of smokers are not very well explained. Anyone have some tips? Even/particularly those that would seem obvious to the experienced?

All I really know is, wait for recharge, point at someone, click. Sometimes it works. Sometimes nothing happens.

It gets blocked by everything, and they have a second or so to move. If they move around a corner/narrow pillar, it breaks. It even breaks on the pillars in BH2, which the tank can still throw rocks through. -_-
The trick is to wait for them to stop moving, or until they are moving in a direction with no obstacles.
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Re: Left 4 fun (and Zombie Panic Source)

Postby Zuffox » Sat Feb 21, 2009 1:17 am UTC

Is it possible to get a survivor who's already in the helicopter as a Tank (No Mercy 5)?

I know you can throw stuff, but that won't deal sufficient damage.

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Re: Left 4 fun (and Zombie Panic Source)

Postby ArchangelShrike » Sat Feb 21, 2009 2:22 am UTC

You knock them out with a thrown rock.

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Re: Left 4 fun (and Zombie Panic Source)

Postby Mo0man » Sat Feb 21, 2009 4:58 am UTC

also, if they're incapped inside the chopper, they aren't counted in the multiplier
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Re: Left 4 fun (and Zombie Panic Source)

Postby Gojoe » Sat Feb 21, 2009 7:31 am UTC

Re: Smoker.

Can you just shoot the tongue to break it?

Also, any tips for when you are the tank? Because I SUCK at benig the tank. I mean if you are going for person x, and they just backup, they move the same speed as you, so you cant catch them. So I throw a rock at them, and that is fine, but does not do much damage. Tips please!
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Re: Left 4 fun (and Zombie Panic Source)

Postby Zuffox » Sat Feb 21, 2009 2:06 pm UTC

Gojoe wrote:Re: Smoker.

Can you just shoot the tongue to break it?

Also, any tips for when you are the tank? Because I SUCK at being the tank. I mean if you are going for person x, and they just backup, they move the same speed as you, so you cant catch them. So I throw a rock at them, and that is fine, but does not do much damage. Tips please!

Don't rush it - unless you're on fire. Either you play around with them, or they play around with you. Open areas spell your imminent death.

Tanks don't do well without the help of other Special infected, and if you're lucky, the Survivors will be afraid to proceed, waiting for you to arrive. If you stay put in a safe location, your teammates will be able to dole out damage, while the other team are sitting ducks. It's often a mind-game of who baits whom in their own favourable location, such as the vents behind the elevator No Mercy 4, if you're a Survivor - assuming the Tank doesn't know how to block the one exit with the forklift.

If you DO run into them, there's nothing forcing you to keep chasing them. You might see a window to attack one or several of the Survivors, but if you find yourself in a current or imminent dangerous situation, retreat. Unless you're on fire.

Tanks can be killed easily by Tier-2 weapons, so don't read anything into the usual connotations tied with "Tank". It's a damage dealer and an incapacitator, but no one-man (monster, rather) army. Against a decent team, it's pretty meager without the help of other teammates.

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Re: Left 4 fun (and Zombie Panic Source)

Postby benbw » Sat Feb 21, 2009 10:26 pm UTC

This game still seems fun after coming back to it, but it is still annoying not to have helpful teammates. I think I might end up just buying it for my friends.


Also, I just want to point out that advertising something as the "offical xkcd l4d server" and then kicking xkcd members who have been in game for <5 minutes to make room is a little retarded.

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Re: Left 4 fun (and Zombie Panic Source)

Postby Zuffox » Sat Feb 21, 2009 11:44 pm UTC

benbw wrote:This game still seems fun after coming back to it, but it is still annoying not to have helpful teammates. I think I might end up just buying it for my friends.


Also, I just want to point out that advertising something as the "offical xkcd l4d server" and then kicking xkcd members who have been in game for <5 minutes to make room is a little retarded.

The xkcd server is tied to the Steam group, right? I never see it on the list. *sob*

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Re: Left 4 fun (and Zombie Panic Source)

Postby Mo0man » Sun Feb 22, 2009 9:11 am UTC

Today, I was out with my family, then was torn when people began to lag behind. We were too spread out, we gotta watch for hunters!
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Re: Left 4 fun (and Zombie Panic Source)

Postby Gojoe » Sun Feb 22, 2009 9:14 am UTC

Mo0man wrote:Today, I was out with my family, then was torn when people began to lag behind. We were too spread out, we gotta watch for hunters!
Did you point out the risks! I mean not only could they die, but they could kill the entire team!
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Re: Left 4 fun (and Zombie Panic Source)

Postby headprogrammingczar » Sun Feb 22, 2009 5:29 pm UTC

Zuffox wrote:The xkcd server is tied to the Steam group, right? I never see it on the list. *sob*

My fault. I haven't had time to keep the server up and running (I only have a laptop). If anyone else has a computer that can host it, I can help them set it up and show them the good mods/config scripts/etc.
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Re: Left 4 fun (and Zombie Panic Source)

Postby aion7 » Sun Feb 22, 2009 8:45 pm UTC

Mo0man wrote:Today, I was out with my family, then was torn when people began to lag behind. We were too spread out, we gotta watch for hunters!

Not to mention Smokers.
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Re: Left 4 fun (and Zombie Panic Source)

Postby Turtle_ » Sun Feb 22, 2009 9:24 pm UTC

How do you park a tank? And I'm not talking about the vehicle where you would just take out the keys.
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Re: Left 4 fun (and Zombie Panic Source)

Postby Zuffox » Sun Feb 22, 2009 10:19 pm UTC

Turtle_ wrote:How do you park a tank? And I'm not talking about the vehicle where you would just take out the keys.

Let the two first players have the rage meter run out, whereafter the AI takes over. Before it runs out (the second time), put it in a place you want it later. The AI won't engage, until it sees the Survivors.

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Re: Left 4 fun (and Zombie Panic Source)

Postby headprogrammingczar » Mon Feb 23, 2009 12:08 am UTC

Zuffox wrote:
Turtle_ wrote:How do you park a tank? And I'm not talking about the vehicle where you would just take out the keys.

Let the two first players have the rage meter run out, whereafter the AI takes over. Before it runs out (the second time), put it in a place you want it later. The AI won't engage, until it sees the Survivors.

Try it in the sewers of NM, in the left branch of that one unskippable tunnel. Incredible fun.
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Re: Left 4 fun (and Zombie Panic Source)

Postby Jahoclave » Mon Feb 23, 2009 11:59 pm UTC

Another good spot is nm4 up by where the witch usually spawns and the smoker tries to pull a guy down. There's a wall there the tank can break down. Park him in there. They come up for the witch, hit'em with a boomer, smoke'em, and tank'em. It's a bad day for them.

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Re: Left 4 fun (and Zombie Panic Source)

Postby Mo0man » Tue Feb 24, 2009 12:12 am UTC

Jahoclave wrote:Another good spot is nm4 up by where the witch usually spawns and the smoker tries to pull a guy down. There's a wall there the tank can break down. Park him in there. They come up for the witch, hit'em with a boomer, smoke'em, and tank'em. It's a bad day for them.

If they take a tank at the same time they take a witch, there are unlucky bastards.

Anyway, I was wondering which way you guys liked your tanks; coming in from the front, while the rest of the infected come in from behind, or having the other infected stay behind him to pick up any survivors he my have left in his wake
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Re: Left 4 fun (and Zombie Panic Source)

Postby Jahoclave » Tue Feb 24, 2009 12:49 am UTC

Mo0man wrote:
Jahoclave wrote:Another good spot is nm4 up by where the witch usually spawns and the smoker tries to pull a guy down. There's a wall there the tank can break down. Park him in there. They come up for the witch, hit'em with a boomer, smoke'em, and tank'em. It's a bad day for them.

If they take a tank at the same time they take a witch, there are unlucky bastards.

Anyway, I was wondering which way you guys liked your tanks; coming in from the front, while the rest of the infected come in from behind, or having the other infected stay behind him to pick up any survivors he my have left in his wake

My general method is to avoid the survivors' fire. A tank is a great chaos agent. Sure, it doesn't work so well when they up and hide in a corner, in which case, you need to go in (unless you can get them through those wonderful walls.). But in places like the finales, I try to just mess with them to force an error that my teammates can seize upon. And if my teammates score a hit I'll go and protect them from rescue. This way you'll get some incaps.

Basically, I think the tank is actually almost better if he doesn't go after the survivors, especially if they're all green. Just try to stay a live and keep the survivors moving around so that one of them will fuck up and get taken down.

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Re: Left 4 fun (and Zombie Panic Source)

Postby Durandal » Tue Feb 24, 2009 1:11 am UTC

Mo0man wrote:
Jahoclave wrote:Another good spot is nm4 up by where the witch usually spawns and the smoker tries to pull a guy down. There's a wall there the tank can break down. Park him in there. They come up for the witch, hit'em with a boomer, smoke'em, and tank'em. It's a bad day for them.

If they take a tank at the same time they take a witch, there are unlucky bastards.

Anyway, I was wondering which way you guys liked your tanks; coming in from the front, while the rest of the infected come in from behind, or having the other infected stay behind him to pick up any survivors he my have left in his wake

So many poor word choices in there...

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Re: Left 4 fun (and Zombie Panic Source)

Postby Jahoclave » Tue Feb 24, 2009 3:37 am UTC

Durandal wrote:
Mo0man wrote:
Jahoclave wrote:Another good spot is nm4 up by where the witch usually spawns and the smoker tries to pull a guy down. There's a wall there the tank can break down. Park him in there. They come up for the witch, hit'em with a boomer, smoke'em, and tank'em. It's a bad day for them.

If they take a tank at the same time they take a witch, there are unlucky bastards.

Anyway, I was wondering which way you guys liked your tanks; coming in from the front, while the rest of the infected come in from behind, or having the other infected stay behind him to pick up any survivors he my have left in his wake

So many poor word choices in there...

Either way, the objective is to rape. :wink:

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Re: Left 4 fun (and Zombie Panic Source)

Postby Jahoclave » Tue Feb 24, 2009 11:10 pm UTC

Did they do something in the past week. It just seems like everything is moving a hell of a lot faster and the infected respawn a hell of a lot quicker. Or is there some sort of new server thing. Even the visual effects seem better. I didn't screw with anything. So, what gives?

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Re: Left 4 fun (and Zombie Panic Source)

Postby headprogrammingczar » Wed Feb 25, 2009 3:24 pm UTC

Jahoclave wrote:Did they do something in the past week. It just seems like everything is moving a hell of a lot faster and the infected respawn a hell of a lot quicker. Or is there some sort of new server thing. Even the visual effects seem better. I didn't screw with anything. So, what gives?

The last update was in January. Maybe you were just playing on one of those "fast-as-hell" servers with the glitch that makes them run at double speed.
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Re: Left 4 fun (and Zombie Panic Source)

Postby Jahoclave » Wed Feb 25, 2009 9:56 pm UTC

headprogrammingczar wrote:
Jahoclave wrote:Did they do something in the past week. It just seems like everything is moving a hell of a lot faster and the infected respawn a hell of a lot quicker. Or is there some sort of new server thing. Even the visual effects seem better. I didn't screw with anything. So, what gives?

The last update was in January. Maybe you were just playing on one of those "fast-as-hell" servers with the glitch that makes them run at double speed.

Maybe, the odds of hitting two in a row though?

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Re: Left 4 fun (and Zombie Panic Source)

Postby Turtle_ » Wed Feb 25, 2009 11:52 pm UTC

Apparently there is a way to make the infected stop attacking you: URL tags are cleaner!.
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Re: Left 4 fun (and Zombie Panic Source)

Postby Zuffox » Thu Feb 26, 2009 12:22 am UTC

Pubbies make me want to kill myself.

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Re: Left 4 fun (and Zombie Panic Source)

Postby Jahoclave » Thu Feb 26, 2009 3:17 am UTC

Zuffox wrote:Pubbies make me want to kill myself.

Yes, they really do. Of course we're the horrid bad players because he got lucky with a glitch and got a guy killed, whereas, with three hunters and three people left he decided there was no need for him to be anywhere near the rest of us to pounce them. Yeah, we're the morons who can't play alright. I.Q. tests need to be incorporated into this game. You really can't compensate for stupid in it like you can in others.

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Re: Left 4 fun (and Zombie Panic Source)

Postby Serrin » Thu Feb 26, 2009 2:36 pm UTC

There's a great way for you to create, administer, and exclude based on your very own IQ list: the friends-only game.

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Re: Left 4 fun (and Zombie Panic Source)

Postby Jahoclave » Thu Feb 26, 2009 3:37 pm UTC

Serrin wrote:There's a great way for you to create, administer, and exclude based on your very own IQ list: the friends-only game.

Yeah, um, about that... Some of them do things like melee the gas station or ask what the plan is when a tank comes when they know that doing so always gets us killed. :wink:

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Re: Left 4 fun (and Zombie Panic Source)

Postby Zuffox » Thu Feb 26, 2009 4:39 pm UTC

Serrin wrote:There's a great way for you to create, administer, and exclude based on your very own IQ list: the friends-only game.

I can't speak on behalf of anyone else, but before Left 4 Dead, I had maybe three or four people on my friends list. Including those who didn't own Left 4 Dead.

This is the first Steam game which has prompted me to have a decent friends list. It's not like Live.

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Re: Left 4 fun (and Zombie Panic Source)

Postby ArchangelShrike » Thu Feb 26, 2009 5:55 pm UTC

Poll time! How fast do you clear out rooms, how many rooms do you clear and does it change depending on the game mode you're playing? I've noticed that Versus seems to go much faster than I originally expected it to, due to Infected pressure, but in campaign the groups I've played with generally look through every room they can, even if there are shortcuts (NM2 - jump through window onto trash bags, for example). In Versus I've had groups leave me behind while I was loading, such that I load up into the middle of Boomer bile and a Hunter pounce, while more successful groups wait for everyone to enter the game before moving an inch.

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Re: Left 4 fun (and Zombie Panic Source)

Postby BMW787 » Thu Feb 26, 2009 5:59 pm UTC

I find that when Im playing versus I try to move as fast as possible towards the next safe room. In the campaign though I usually search most rooms unless I have pain pills, a molotov/pipe bomb, and a health pack, and decent health. If I somehow miracously have all of those I dont search around too much.
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Re: Left 4 fun (and Zombie Panic Source)

Postby headprogrammingczar » Thu Feb 26, 2009 6:10 pm UTC

The difference is that health packs are more important when your stuff persists between maps. I enjoy the change of pace between campaign and versus. Just to start a small religious war, Expert is no fun. I like Advanced because it is less insane with common infected damage. If expert used the same common infected damage, but doubled the number of commons and special infected, I would be happy. Also, Jahoclave, get better friends. :wink:

Edit: lol word-filter
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Re: Left 4 fun (and Zombie Panic Source)

Postby ArchangelShrike » Thu Feb 26, 2009 6:23 pm UTC

I've done Expert with friends simply for RPG Collection Whor-Achievements, but I think I'd prefer L4D to be a little more lighthearted, mainly because I like having leeway when styles of gameplay don't match up between people. When it's Expert it becomes a yelling fest between chieftains trying to make the group win through usually different tactics (tank killing, corner melee vs weapons), which ends up with the group on the floor until one person bows down. With Advanced it's a lot easier to get through simply because a single mistake won't cost the group the whole round. But then again, there are some people I'd only play Expert with when given the choice because they're that awesome, and others I'd try to never play Expert with, because they never seem to relax during a game.

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Re: Left 4 fun (and Zombie Panic Source)

Postby BMW787 » Thu Feb 26, 2009 6:25 pm UTC

I haven't played on expert yet. I don't feel im ready. Plus advanced is so much fun. To start another religous war I think the campaign is more fun than versus. I like having me and some teammates against one common enemy than trying to face off against other people that usually kick my ass. I want to have fun, not be in a competition
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Re: Left 4 fun (and Zombie Panic Source)

Postby BigMcStrongmuscle » Thu Feb 26, 2009 6:55 pm UTC

I usually play on a pair of locally-linked Xboxen with three friends (usually two shotgunners, an assault rifle, and a hunting rifle). We have gotten pretty good at working together, to the point where we have to play Expert or we breeze through the campaigns. We've reached the finale in all four campaigns now, and have even survived one once or twice.

Personally (YMMV), I like expert way more than advanced. The regular zombie hits are brutal, so it becomes a lot more important to watch each other's back, and the Tank and the Witch are tons scarier when they one-hit kill you. Friendly fire is really nasty though - I wouldn't want to do expert with a team I hadn't played with before. The extra challenge is good though: IMO, games like L4D are less fun if you win all the time.

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Re: Left 4 fun (and Zombie Panic Source)

Postby Jahoclave » Thu Feb 26, 2009 6:57 pm UTC

BMW787 wrote:I find that when Im playing versus I try to move as fast as possible towards the next safe room. In the campaign though I usually search most rooms unless I have pain pills, a molotov/pipe bomb, and a health pack, and decent health. If I somehow miracously have all of those I dont search around too much.

Yeah, I think with versus it's really a matter of balance. Rush through the open attackable areas till you can get to another guardable area. Then go out, try to locate the boss infected so you can break their attack, kill them and then rush to the next safe area again. What I hate is the idea that you have to rush through the entire map just because of infected spawn time. It just gets people killed and puts you in a worse off position. You don't pick up nearly the number of pills and useful pipe bombs and molotovs. Plus if one guy gets hit from a zombie from behind he's now a couple of paces behind your group.

If you're paying attention enough that the boss infected really can't do much damage to you then it really doesn't matter how much they spawn. Being a tight group is much more important than speed.

As for expert. Meh, I've gotten to the second tank on the finales with bots.

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Re: Left 4 fun (and Zombie Panic Source)

Postby BMW787 » Thu Feb 26, 2009 7:00 pm UTC

Jahoclave wrote:As for expert. Meh, I've gotten to the second tank on the finales with bots.


Since you put it that way I should give it a shot. I think I was on expert once when I started a quick match on live. Thirty seconds after leaving the safe room I got attacked by a smoker. RIGHT after my teammates freed me a hunter pounced me. RIGHT after THAT a horde came out of nowhere and a Tank spawned and killed me. I stopped playing that level after that.
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ArchangelShrike
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Re: Left 4 fun (and Zombie Panic Source)

Postby ArchangelShrike » Thu Feb 26, 2009 7:14 pm UTC

I'm not sure what it is, but there also seems to be a inversely proportional law* where the more time you spend communicating, the less you get done. The most successful runs I've done on both sides have been with those that hardly talk at all - they know the rules of the game and simply need a couple of keywords like "on the lift" or "in the room" to figure out which direction we're going.

Witches should never be a problem by now because a) there should always be someone with a shotgun, and b) everyone should be able to do Crown'd, no exceptions. As long as you don't get royally screwed by a Tank/Witch/Horde with full Infected and a unused Boomer bile, Witches are easy enough to kill at point blank and easy enough with a hallway if you don't feel like Crown'd. Tanks are a bit harder, but it simply takes a bit of tactics and knowing how much room you've got and then you can take a Tank down with gunfire or fire(not recommended on campaign). The one big reason why I prefer Advanced over Expert is: do I want to spend 3+ hours finishing a campaign, or 1? There's only so much time left to sleep in the morning.

Expert with bots - easy enough, they kill almost any special Infected without a problem from 50 meters away. Just keep to a reasonable pace with the bots and stay with them, because you running ahead is recipe for disaster unless you're near a saferoom.

*Yes, there is a point where no communication takes win to nil, and talking at all times will lead to victory.


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