Warlocks (Spellcaster, Waving Hands, etc)

Of the Tabletop, and other, lesser varieties.

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GreedyAlgorithm
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Re: Warlocks (Spellcaster, Waving Hands, etc)

Postby GreedyAlgorithm » Fri Nov 07, 2008 12:56 am UTC

My strategy seems to be predominantly SPFPSDx with the same delayed on the other hand, or paralysis on the other hand, usually after an invis. I've found this experimentally, by noticing I do it in almost every game.
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Re: Warlocks (Spellcaster, Waving Hands, etc)

Postby Phen » Fri Nov 07, 2008 1:15 am UTC

I'm curious to find out if most of the warlocks use programs to easier see the sequences available. I really like this game anyhow, and I'm beginning to find out some combinations that flow easily into each other, which is nice. I'm glad I mostly fight newbs like myself, though. :)
I'm a wizard. We know these things.

In war, one should seek to take and hold the high ground. From there, the enemy's movements are clearly visible, and he will struggle just to reach you, let alone fight you. High orbit is the highest ground there is.

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Re: Warlocks (Spellcaster, Waving Hands, etc)

Postby xade » Fri Nov 07, 2008 1:29 am UTC

I think a lot of folk should use something while they're getting a feel for the game.

I certainly speeds up the learning process.

But it shouldn't take too many games under your belts before you remember the various options availiable. :)

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Re: Warlocks (Spellcaster, Waving Hands, etc)

Postby Phen » Fri Nov 07, 2008 3:12 am UTC

Well, I always end up playing late at night if there's any action at all, so I tend to be sleepy and not notice as much as I could have...

Xade, could you tell me what difference the "melee" tag does?
I'm a wizard. We know these things.

In war, one should seek to take and hold the high ground. From there, the enemy's movements are clearly visible, and he will struggle just to reach you, let alone fight you. High orbit is the highest ground there is.

xade
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Re: Warlocks (Spellcaster, Waving Hands, etc)

Postby xade » Fri Nov 07, 2008 3:43 am UTC

any game with more than two players involved gets rated as a melee. :)

You can have up to 6 players at once...

nawglan
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Re: Warlocks (Spellcaster, Waving Hands, etc)

Postby nawglan » Fri Nov 07, 2008 4:04 am UTC

This gesture evaluator might be of some interest to you guys. Saw you were developing your own, and figured I'd point you to one that is more developed. I personally don't use it, but I know some that do. It requires the Greasemonkey addon to firefox if I remember right.

http://code.google.com/p/warlocks-gesture-evaluator/

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4=5
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Re: Warlocks (Spellcaster, Waving Hands, etc)

Postby 4=5 » Fri Nov 07, 2008 4:22 am UTC

welcome, (I've joined your forum but it'll be a bit 'till the admin approves it)
has there ever been an attempt at making a warlocks playing AI?

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Re: Warlocks (Spellcaster, Waving Hands, etc)

Postby Berengal » Fri Nov 07, 2008 4:53 am UTC

There's some discussion about it on the page xade linked to. I skimmed it briefly, but it seemed to agree with what I already thought: That making an AI is too much trouble than it's worth. Of course, I'm not well versed in AI, so I might be missing something that's obvious to those who are...
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Re: Warlocks (Spellcaster, Waving Hands, etc)

Postby nawglan » Fri Nov 07, 2008 5:03 am UTC

Main issue with an AI is lack of inputs. The archived version of the game does not preserve, on a turn by turn basis, things like health, monsters active (and their health / targets), and gestures as entered (not after being affected by charm, confusion, etc.).

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Re: Warlocks (Spellcaster, Waving Hands, etc)

Postby Berengal » Fri Nov 07, 2008 5:57 am UTC

It does store what happens each turn, just not in very-easily computer readable format. The text feedback is stored, and shouldn't be too hard to parse, and given that, and a working implementation of the game itself, it's possible to recreate battles with every detail preserved. Also, the AI could easily store his own battles in a database of his own. Input is the least of the troubles in creating an AI...
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Re: Warlocks (Spellcaster, Waving Hands, etc)

Postby BoomFrog » Fri Nov 07, 2008 9:47 am UTC

Game 68160 wrote:BoomFrog says "I spent several hours looking at that website tring to figure out if I should charm you or the ogre...".

...

BoomFrog casts Charm Monster at himself.

/forehead slap
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nawglan
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Re: Warlocks (Spellcaster, Waving Hands, etc)

Postby nawglan » Sat Nov 08, 2008 1:07 am UTC

Berengal wrote:It does store what happens each turn, just not in very-easily computer readable format. The text feedback is stored, and shouldn't be too hard to parse, and given that, and a working implementation of the game itself, it's possible to recreate battles with every detail preserved. Also, the AI could easily store his own battles in a database of his own. Input is the least of the troubles in creating an AI...


Those games are only on ravenblack's site for a short period of time. I run an archive at http://lurch.homelinux.org where only the full=1 version of the game is stored. No links to each turn, etc. So, it is a little difficult to do, but not entirely impossible. (I'm working on such a beast now. It's for the rewrite of the archive...)

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Re: Warlocks (Spellcaster, Waving Hands, etc)

Postby Lamhslea » Sun Nov 09, 2008 12:55 am UTC

I've been working on a simple Perl script to show all possible gestures that can be made from a current hand, and was hoping to make some improvements on it before releasing it, but I figure I've been waiting too long, and if I make any substantial improvements I'll just upload the new one.

This is the first program I've made other than a few Project Euler challenges and the exercises at the end of each chapter in Learning Perl, so I hope there aren't any problems with it.

There are 2 files in the Sequencer folder, the program itself and a text file called SpellList that has all the spells and their gestures in it, so if new gestures and/or spells come out you can easily add them in. You must run the Sequencer program in the same directory as the SpellList file.

After you execute the file it will prompt you for LH: and then RH: after you enter them it will show potential spells that can be made from each hand in the following format:
Hand:Gesture - Spell - Turns until spell can be cast

If you have any problems with it let me know!

Oh, I've no experience running Perl scripts in Windows, so I'm not sure how well this will work out for you. To try and make it easier I've also uploaded a .zip archive.
Attachments
Sequencer.tar.bz2
(1.36 KiB) Downloaded 60 times
Sequencer.zip
(1.55 KiB) Downloaded 60 times

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Re: Warlocks (Spellcaster, Waving Hands, etc)

Postby Babam » Sun Nov 09, 2008 1:17 am UTC

Hehehe, I feel sorry for Maknud, he/she is about to die and needs food badly
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Re: Warlocks (Spellcaster, Waving Hands, etc)

Postby BoomFrog » Tue Nov 11, 2008 10:07 am UTC

Oh shit, Mr.Maroon has a Finger of death lined up with no one to stop him in melee 68036. I wonder who he is going to zap?
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Re: Warlocks (Spellcaster, Waving Hands, etc)

Postby Phen » Tue Nov 11, 2008 10:34 am UTC

Haha, kudos to him. It'll probably be me, with my luck.
I'm a wizard. We know these things.

In war, one should seek to take and hold the high ground. From there, the enemy's movements are clearly visible, and he will struggle just to reach you, let alone fight you. High orbit is the highest ground there is.

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Re: Warlocks (Spellcaster, Waving Hands, etc)

Postby BoomFrog » Tue Nov 11, 2008 1:31 pm UTC

Okay, I need a clarification on invisibility. You can be attacked the turn you go invisible, but the rules seem to imply that you can be attacked the turn you become visible as well? So your gestures are hidden for three turns but your guarded from attacks for only two turns? Or are you protected from targeting all three turns?
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4=5
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Re: Warlocks (Spellcaster, Waving Hands, etc)

Postby 4=5 » Tue Nov 11, 2008 7:23 pm UTC

I don't think you can be attacked on the third turn

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Re: Warlocks (Spellcaster, Waving Hands, etc)

Postby BoomFrog » Wed Nov 12, 2008 12:03 am UTC

Well, it says,
Invisability wrote:His gestures cannot be seen by his opponents, and he cannot be attacked by any monsters or hit by any target-specific Spells, although they can be directed at him in case he becomes visible prematurely
Why would this ever come up unless you can target the warlock the turn he's becoming visible?
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Re: Warlocks (Spellcaster, Waving Hands, etc)

Postby nawglan » Wed Nov 12, 2008 1:51 am UTC

I think that Dispel Magic would give a monster a chance to hit the turn a player becomes visible (due to the dispel).

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Re: Warlocks (Spellcaster, Waving Hands, etc)

Postby BoomFrog » Wed Nov 12, 2008 9:52 am UTC

ahh, I see now. Dispel magic would not allow gestures to be seen but would allow attacks because the invisibility ends between these events. got it, thanks.

Btw, something that took my by surprise. Don't forget that counter spell grants a shield as well so if you CS on your opponent he can't be hurt by your attacking creatures that turn.
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Re: Warlocks (Spellcaster, Waving Hands, etc)

Postby SPsnow02 » Thu Nov 13, 2008 3:28 am UTC

I just joined and have played a few games, I enjoy its complexity :D

I've got sequencing my spells down now, but I'm still horrible at pick up on what other are trying to cast >.<

And someone caught me with a Permenant Invisibility >.<
Rawr!

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Griffin
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Re: Warlocks (Spellcaster, Waving Hands, etc)

Postby Griffin » Thu Nov 13, 2008 1:07 pm UTC

Well, here goes nothing... GlyphGryph enters the fray, and tries to figure out how to play.
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Re: Warlocks (Spellcaster, Waving Hands, etc)

Postby Chrismclegless » Thu Nov 13, 2008 11:55 pm UTC

That melee was fun. Who's up for another?
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Re: Warlocks (Spellcaster, Waving Hands, etc)

Postby BoomFrog » Fri Nov 14, 2008 6:42 am UTC

Good game Xade, that was really fun. I love how this game has perfect knowledge and is 100% automatically fair. Makes it like playing chess. Hmm, I wonder what a version of chess where you move simultanously would be like...

Also, I noticed the scoring system. If you have zero points currently there is no possible downside to playing a ladder game instead of friendly, so I vote all us new players should just dive into the ladder system and play mostly ladder games.

SPsnow02 wrote:I just joined and have played a few games, I enjoy its complexity :D

I've got sequencing my spells down now, but I'm still horrible at pick up on what other are trying to cast >.<

And someone caught me with a Permenant Invisibility >.<


Using the evaluator programs linked to earlier is a great help at the beginning. And FYI permanent invisibility could be thwarted by dispel magic. Still sucks though.
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Re: Warlocks (Spellcaster, Waving Hands, etc)

Postby Chrismclegless » Fri Nov 14, 2008 5:03 pm UTC

I've had a potentially interesting idea, though I'm not sure quite how well it would work. How about team games? Say, 2v2 to start with, to see if it works. I think this would bring in some different tactics - do you cast that permanancy on yourself or your teammate, knowing that he's got haste or amnesia lined up? Do you really want to cast that firestorm, knowing that even though you'll be safe, your teammate will get fried?

I think this'd work best if there was plenty of communication between teammates, so xkcd pms would work.

One slight problem is that if a team wins with both players still alive, the battle would continue, and one would end up having to surrender, hurting his statistics even though he won. Therefore I think we should play it as a V.Friendly game. If you both surrender at once, what happens?

If anyone else is interested, sign up here. For simplicity, first signup gets me as a teammate.
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Re: Warlocks (Spellcaster, Waving Hands, etc)

Postby Phen » Fri Nov 14, 2008 5:54 pm UTC

Team game sounds fun.

I don't know if mrmaroon is from xkcd, but I think it was a bit ambitious for his to go for another finger of death, when he's made himself so visible.
I'm a wizard. We know these things.

In war, one should seek to take and hold the high ground. From there, the enemy's movements are clearly visible, and he will struggle just to reach you, let alone fight you. High orbit is the highest ground there is.

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Re: Warlocks (Spellcaster, Waving Hands, etc)

Postby GreedyAlgorithm » Sat Nov 15, 2008 1:20 am UTC

Yes, I've been wanting to try a team game for a while. Count me in. --Maknud
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Re: Warlocks (Spellcaster, Waving Hands, etc)

Postby Chrismclegless » Tue Nov 18, 2008 12:27 pm UTC

No-one else up for a team game?
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Re: Warlocks (Spellcaster, Waving Hands, etc)

Postby BoomFrog » Wed Nov 19, 2008 9:09 am UTC

I would join a team game.
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Re: Warlocks (Spellcaster, Waving Hands, etc)

Postby Chrismclegless » Wed Nov 19, 2008 1:13 pm UTC

OK, I'll send out the challenges now. Teams are Phen & Me VS Maknud & BoomFrog
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Re: Warlocks (Spellcaster, Waving Hands, etc)

Postby GreedyAlgorithm » Wed Nov 19, 2008 5:14 pm UTC

All right! What are the rules for this thing? Should we communicate, only communicate via a shared forum (like this thread), not communicate at all? The winner is the last team with someone left standing?
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Re: Warlocks (Spellcaster, Waving Hands, etc)

Postby Chrismclegless » Wed Nov 19, 2008 7:25 pm UTC

I reckon we can work out a general plan, and then not communicate again after that. Otherwise the game will slow down quite a lot.
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Re: Warlocks (Spellcaster, Waving Hands, etc)

Postby GreedyAlgorithm » Wed Nov 19, 2008 7:47 pm UTC

I'm fine with not communicating regarding big strategy discussions, but what about noting who you're targeting with a counterspell/mindspell to avoid cancellation? That just takes a PM using the extant Warlocks "you can send one note to a person at a time" system.
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Re: Warlocks (Spellcaster, Waving Hands, etc)

Postby Chrismclegless » Wed Nov 19, 2008 7:52 pm UTC

OK, that makes sense. We'll say you're allowed to mention who you're targeting.
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Re: Warlocks (Spellcaster, Waving Hands, etc)

Postby xade » Thu Nov 20, 2008 12:28 am UTC

BoomFrog wrote:Good game Xade, that was really fun. I love how this game has perfect knowledge and is 100% automatically fair. Makes it like playing chess. Hmm, I wonder what a version of chess where you move simultanously would be like...

Also, I noticed the scoring system. If you have zero points currently there is no possible downside to playing a ladder game instead of friendly, so I vote all us new players should just dive into the ladder system and play mostly ladder games.


Same. It's completely fair, there's no who-goes-first-wins mentality involved.

And you hit the ladder system nail on the head. there's no downside to playing ladder matches. In fact, the ladder system on it's own is a terrible way to rate people. It just really rates streaks. :)

Also, check out the warlock forums if you're interested in team battles, as there's a number of teams over there who would be willing to get in the ring. :D

Also, the 2v2v2 match is starting to pick up a little popularity...

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Re: Warlocks (Spellcaster, Waving Hands, etc)

Postby Phen » Thu Nov 27, 2008 4:19 pm UTC

Aw, all of my three games are going so sloooow now. Breaks the flow.
I'm a wizard. We know these things.

In war, one should seek to take and hold the high ground. From there, the enemy's movements are clearly visible, and he will struggle just to reach you, let alone fight you. High orbit is the highest ground there is.

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Re: Warlocks (Spellcaster, Waving Hands, etc)

Postby BoomFrog » Tue Dec 02, 2008 10:24 am UTC

yeah, that does suck. I try to stay away from more then one melee at a time for that reason. But when I have three fast games going I tend to not get any work done that day, AND do badly in all three games because I get confused. The way this game is set up is really sutible for slow games. I'd be interested to see a 'realtime' version set up, with like a two minute timer for moves.

You can always watch the challenges and find two more games. Try joining a challenge of someone who was recently active.
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Re: Warlocks (Spellcaster, Waving Hands, etc)

Postby 4=5 » Mon Nov 02, 2009 10:55 pm UTC

Last edited by 4=5 on Tue Nov 03, 2009 9:11 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Warlocks (Spellcaster, Waving Hands, etc)

Postby Phen » Mon Nov 02, 2009 11:27 pm UTC

Shame it died down. I was frustrated that the battles stopped because people didn't take their turns. Guess I should give it another shot... So I'm up if anyone wants to battle with me. Preferably newbs like me :P
I'm a wizard. We know these things.

In war, one should seek to take and hold the high ground. From there, the enemy's movements are clearly visible, and he will struggle just to reach you, let alone fight you. High orbit is the highest ground there is.


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