Nitpicky design failure (Merge'd Game Mechanics)

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Yuri2356
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Re: Nitpicky design failures in awesome games

Postby Yuri2356 » Wed Nov 26, 2008 4:16 pm UTC

That's one of the nicer things about the Public quests in Warhammer Online. Their first phase will just sort of sit there on the map, and will accumulate results from various passers-by. (The other phases are timed, so you're less likely to walk in on one of those half-done. And if it gets abandoned it'll soon reset.)

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Re: Nitpicky design failures in awesome games

Postby Dropzone » Fri Dec 12, 2008 1:50 am UTC

SecondTalon wrote:Any time in any game that lets you run and leap and clamber over obstacles that you're suddenly stuck by a waist-high fence. I'm more accepting of the invisible wall at the edge of a huge cliff that keeps you from running over the side and dying than I am of somehow unclimbable unjumpable fences, smaller than things you've jumped and climbed on before.

Going all the way back to the start of the thread here, but I was reminded of a particular variation of this while playing Jedi Outcast just now: vertical bars (or something similar) that somehow completely block your path, despite the HUGE gaps between them that your character could easily fit through. The example that reminded me was particularly appalling:

Spoiler:
jk2sp-2008-12-11-23-30-56-4.jpg
jk2sp-2008-12-11-23-30-56-4.jpg (89.4 KiB) Viewed 4334 times
I'm seriously supposed to believe that that gap is too narrow for him to fit through? One other example that I can think of off the top of my head:

Spoiler:
trl-2008-12-12-00-35-19-89.jpg
trl-2008-12-12-00-35-19-89.jpg (81.26 KiB) Viewed 4337 times

Also, another thing. Doors that you have to go through to progress, but which look exactly like the fake, unopenable kind of door. I've got stuck for ages in two different games (Jedi Outcast (again) and Tomb Raider Chronicles) because I was completely unaware that the door I was supposed to go through was actually a real door and not just part of the wall texture.

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Re: Nitpicky design failures in awesome games

Postby GhostWolfe » Mon Dec 15, 2008 12:47 am UTC

In the same vein as the "too narrow" gaps: objects made of pure plot device. In one of the earlier jedi games, you were locked in a large storeroom and to get out you had to find the one specific vent that you could "break" with your lightsaber. So you had to run around the perimeter of the room lightsaber'ing the grilles over the conviently man-sized ducts until one of them broke. The rest appeared scorched, but the correct one exploded (towards you) into three or four pieces.

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Re: Nitpicky design failures in awesome games

Postby Zuffox » Mon Dec 15, 2008 2:29 am UTC

Jebobek wrote:Achievements in online games. Too many people go off the normal behavior of, say, helping out the team, in order to farm points towards an achievement. I won't dismiss the unexplainable fun fascination of achievements, but in the online setting this is a big downside.

If we rephrase your peeve to something along the lines of Achievements that messes up the game with weird incentives, then I completely agree. It's also why I lament them being mandatory for developers to include on PS3 and Xbox 360 - one of the reasons I won't be making any games for said platforms if I am to preserve my artistic vision. :|

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Re: Nitpicky design failures in awesome games

Postby Amnesiasoft » Mon Dec 15, 2008 3:54 am UTC

Zuffox wrote:I won't be making any games for said platforms if I am to preserve my artistic vision. :|

Umm...make a single achievement for beating the game? And as far as I'm aware, they are not requirements, at least on the PS3.

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Re: Nitpicky design failures in awesome games

Postby BlackSails » Mon Dec 15, 2008 4:23 am UTC

Bad spawn systems. Im looking at you, CoD4 and 5.

Either I spawn on the other side of the map from everything, or I spawn right in the line of fire. (Not kidding, Ive spawned ON TOP of enemy grenades, without enough time to either run or toss them away.)

When I spawn I should
1) Spawn near my allies
2) Not spawn in the middle of a firefight

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Re: Nitpicky design failures in awesome games

Postby Whispering » Mon Dec 15, 2008 4:45 am UTC

Having to watch the same death sequence over and over i.e. Too Human. First time it was cool oh look I died and a Valkyrie came and took me to respawn...500th time I wish there was someway to skip the damn thing.
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Re: Nitpicky design failures in awesome games

Postby GhostWolfe » Mon Dec 15, 2008 6:08 am UTC

Pathing errors in games where you control more than one character. Seriously, just stay behind me when I'm moving. And for the love of god, please stop attempting to locate the most convoluted enemy-ridden paths you can find. Baldur's Gate wasn't too bad because you could hold down shift and click points along the path of travel every few feet; but as a general rule your other party members will go pull half the damn map because you walked between two rocks.

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Re: Nitpicky design failures in awesome games

Postby Zuffox » Mon Dec 15, 2008 1:21 pm UTC

Amnesiasoft wrote:
Zuffox wrote:I won't be making any games for said platforms if I am to preserve my artistic vision. :|

Umm...make a single achievement for beating the game? And as far as I'm aware, they are not requirements, at least on the PS3.

They will be in 2009. January-February-ish, from what I've read.

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Re: Nitpicky design failures in awesome games

Postby Endless Mike » Tue Dec 16, 2008 5:53 pm UTC

You can always make them completely stupid like the new PoP game where STARTING THE GAME gives you an achievement. No joke.

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Re: Nitpicky design failures in awesome games

Postby Amnesiasoft » Tue Dec 16, 2008 6:28 pm UTC

That's hardly a new thing. Simpson's Game did it too. As well as a couple others.

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Re: Nitpicky design failures in awesome games

Postby Nifar » Tue Dec 16, 2008 10:54 pm UTC

Or just have it be one of those games that give achievements for completing levels and/or reaching certain milestones in the game.
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Re: Nitpicky design failures in awesome games

Postby Whispering » Sat Dec 20, 2008 4:40 am UTC

Endless Mike wrote:You can always make them completely stupid like the new PoP game where STARTING THE GAME gives you an achievement. No joke.


Or watching the intro like the new Soulcaliber game.
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Re: Nitpicky design failures in awesome games

Postby Nifar » Sun Dec 21, 2008 12:51 am UTC

Or not skipping the training session, like Mirror's Edge.
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Re: Nitpicky design failures in awesome games

Postby headprogrammingczar » Sun Dec 21, 2008 3:09 pm UTC

Or four achievements just for beating the maps (L4D, no difficulty specified).
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Re: Nitpicky design failures in awesome games

Postby GourdCaptain » Sun Dec 21, 2008 5:33 pm UTC

The party member pathfinding in Fallout 3. I tend to take very... nonobvious routes to get around. Dogmeat won't follow, so I have to go back, grab him, convince him to follow me (black magic I cannot reliably perform) walk over a bridge, he falls down a hole and dies from fall damage. Or something (he just appeared to vanish.) I should not be spending the entire game walking backwards to make sure the dog isn't aggroing the wrong monster or stuck on the other side of a hill. Shows what I get for buying the PS3 version, probably (never heard anyone else having problems with it.)

Also, my nitpicky flaw with how I play video games. My horrible, horrible sense of direction. See me being unable to find the room with the bow in Ocarina without being lead by the nose by a friend. Or my inabilty to find anything in any First Person game, ever. Fallout 3 earned my undying love with the map system and marker setting, which I sometimes have to use to find Craterside Suppy in Megaton. Yeah, I suck.

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Re: Nitpicky design failures in awesome games

Postby Felstaff » Mon Dec 29, 2008 11:21 am UTC

Personal Pet-hate Pile of Peevery:

Assassin's Creed: The opening. The overbearing explanation. We get it, DNA has memory. Fire your scriptwriters or apply a hefty axe to the exposition. Also, may I please skip the training?
Clipping in games. Walking through someone and seeing hollow polygonal outlines of a player's arm shoot through the screen is uncannyvalleyism at its most infuriating. I see the reason for it in claustrogames like Left 4 Dead, which is just too much fun/frantic/fast-paced to care about these problems.
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Re: Nitpicky design failures in awesome games

Postby Xaddak » Mon Dec 29, 2008 1:08 pm UTC

I just want to point out that the Uncanny Valley is when something fake looks so real that it loops back and starts looking fake again, and creepy to boot, because it is so lifelike that all of the tiny, unimportant details (jaw movement, teeth, how the eyes blink) suddenly becomes massive flaws and ruin the effect.
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Re: Nitpicky design failures in awesome games

Postby Solid Freeman » Sun Jan 04, 2009 2:46 am UTC

Zuffox wrote:
Amnesiasoft wrote:
Zuffox wrote:I won't be making any games for said platforms if I am to preserve my artistic vision. :|

Umm...make a single achievement for beating the game? And as far as I'm aware, they are not requirements, at least on the PS3.

They will be in 2009. January-February-ish, from what I've read.


YES! :D

My nitpick is in Half-Life 2, with its "illusion of nonlinearity" that is usually excellent, but every so often is just confusing. The worst is in the beginning where a staircase that you have to climb to escape the metrocops is too dark for you to see it (on the PS3 version), I only knew it was there because I had previously played the segment on the PC, where the staircase was visible. At this point in the game, you don't have your flashlight. Actually, the PS3 version is way too dark overall; my flashlight was almost always on during Route Kanal.
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Re: Nitpicky design failures in awesome games

Postby Poochy » Mon Jan 05, 2009 3:31 pm UTC

Zuffox wrote:I won't be making any games for said platforms if I am to preserve my artistic vision. :|
I can think of an alternative solution: Make achievements for stuff like "Find the title screen". In the likely event that you can jump in the game, you can also have an achievement for "Find a way to defy gravity" that is earned the first time the player jumps. :lol:

Which brings me to my complaint: Achievements or rewards for "Do X N times". If you're skilled enough to pull it off once or twice, I see no point in proving you can do the same task another 42 times.
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Re: Nitpicky design failures in awesome games

Postby InstinctSage » Tue Jan 06, 2009 12:19 am UTC

I'm, pretty sure there's actually rules about achievements in that not all of them can be blatantly obvious, in addition they must not be unachievable (i.e. you'll never see achievements like "Get a no. 1 ranking on the leaderboards")

I agree on the online ones, though. A lot of them are royal pains.

I just had a really minor one that in retrospect isn't really attributed to design. Bioshock spoiler included free of charge!
Spoiler:
When finishing the EMP bomb you have to get the nitroglycerin charge from Kyburz's office, there is an audio log by Pable Navarro stating that "Kyburz's door code is the date of Australia Day." Kyburz being Australian that makes fair sense. What doesn't is the door code is 0126. Yes, Australia Day is January 26th, but here we use dd/mm/yy, so it should be 2601. That always bugged me, mostly because I hate hate hate mm/dd/yy, especially that one time the location settings on the SQL server were set to it and it ruined a month's worth of uploaded data. :evil:
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Re: Nitpicky design failures in awesome games

Postby Cryopyre » Tue Jan 06, 2009 4:29 am UTC

As I play SMAC, I realize how much easier the game would be if I could move in stacks or armies.
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Re: Nitpicky design failures in awesome games

Postby Ralith » Tue Jan 06, 2009 4:46 am UTC

No sniper's triangle in sniper-centric games :(
If I hit them in the heart it does less damage than the ear... *sighs*
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Re: Nitpicky design failures in awesome games

Postby Amoeba » Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:42 am UTC

Particularly taken from Halo 1/2 (not played 3 much):

Infinite ammo, particularly in vehicles. Makes the multiplayer far less interesting if someone has a tank that will never run out.
Not being able to hold two weapons at once when said weapon only takes one hand to hold (energy sword, that's you).

Edit: And sniper damage being equal across most parts of the body; if I shoot you twice in the leg, you should not die. That is obvious.
Jesus Christ you have confused me

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Re: Nitpicky design failures in awesome games

Postby Jack Saladin » Tue Jan 06, 2009 12:06 pm UTC

Edit: And sniper damage being equal across most parts of the body; if I shoot you twice in the leg, you should not die. That is obvious.

Err, yes, you really should. Hell, if it's a sniper rifle, one shot should do the trick no matter where it hits you. Especially the legs, considering how rapidly you'd bleed to death if one of those got blown open, not to mention shock. The leg is an extremely dangerous place to get shot/stabbed.

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Re: Nitpicky design failures in awesome games

Postby Ralith » Tue Jan 06, 2009 12:35 pm UTC

Bleeding to death is never instant, though. Are you telling me if I shoot you in the foot, you'll drop silently and die without making a noise?
I don't think so...
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Re: Nitpicky design failures in awesome games

Postby Amnesiasoft » Tue Jan 06, 2009 2:53 pm UTC

He's not saying you'l die instantly, just that you'll become very useless very instantly. Followed by death.

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Re: Nitpicky design failures in awesome games

Postby Amoeba » Tue Jan 06, 2009 6:42 pm UTC

Jack Saladin wrote:
Edit: And sniper damage being equal across most parts of the body; if I shoot you twice in the leg, you should not die. That is obvious.

Err, yes, you really should. Hell, if it's a sniper rifle, one shot should do the trick no matter where it hits you. Especially the legs, considering how rapidly you'd bleed to death if one of those got blown open, not to mention shock. The leg is an extremely dangerous place to get shot/stabbed.


But immediately with no blood whatsoever? I think not!
Jesus Christ you have confused me

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Re: Nitpicky design failures in awesome games

Postby yohanleafheart » Tue Jan 06, 2009 7:49 pm UTC

Poochy wrote:I'm playing Tales of Symphonia: Dawn of the New World, and it's a great game, but with one annoyance: I can't skip most cutscenes. There's a command to skip cutscenes, but it only works for those that are fully automatic (i.e. the ones where pressing A repeatedly doesn't advance the text nor make it go by faster), which is probably much less than 1 in every 10 or so cutscenes.


Persona 4 suffers from the same problem. Luckily there is no long cutscene between a save and the boss fight, until now at least, don't know if it will get worst latter. And there you can have a kind-of queue of circle press to spend the cutscene.
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Re: Nitpicky design failures in awesome games

Postby wst » Tue Jan 06, 2009 9:01 pm UTC

Jack Saladin wrote:
Edit: And sniper damage being equal across most parts of the body; if I shoot you twice in the leg, you should not die. That is obvious.

Err, yes, you really should. Hell, if it's a sniper rifle, one shot should do the trick no matter where it hits you. Especially the legs, considering how rapidly you'd bleed to death if one of those got blown open, not to mention shock. The leg is an extremely dangerous place to get shot/stabbed.
At least Americas Army got it right. You get hit there, you die slowly. You leave blood on the floor. Halo, you end up lying on the ground getting teabagged. Mind you, one's sim, one isn't, but still...

Forza Motorsport was great, other than the AI actually trying to kill you. On the last lap. Crippling your car. Even if you win after having a dead car, you lose loads of money because of damage. Gah!
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Re: Nitpicky design failures in awesome games

Postby Jack Saladin » Tue Jan 06, 2009 9:06 pm UTC

But immediately with no blood whatsoever? I think not!

Yeah, but in a mutiplayer FPS there's no practical difference between being killed and being immobilised and in incredible agony bleeding to death. And not many people want to roleplay the latter every time they get shot.

Bleeding to death is never instant, though. Are you telling me if I shoot you in the foot, you'll drop silently and die without making a noise?

Feet? I thought we were talking about legs?

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Re: Nitpicky design failures in awesome games

Postby Ralith » Tue Jan 06, 2009 10:40 pm UTC

I said NOTHING about multiplayer.
Games where you gotta take out a sentry- shooting him in the heart works BEST, really. NO chance of not killing in .1 seconds if you hit it.
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Re: Nitpicky design failures in awesome games

Postby Jack Saladin » Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:07 pm UTC

We were talking about Halo, and when you're talking about Halo you're probably talking about multiplayer.

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Re: Nitpicky design failures in awesome games

Postby Amnesiasoft » Wed Jan 07, 2009 12:51 am UTC

Who's to say the covenant don't have their heart in their ankle?!

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Re: Nitpicky design failures in awesome games

Postby InstinctSage » Wed Jan 07, 2009 1:28 am UTC

I find it humorous that people are playing Halo and looking for realism.

But heart shots should be built into more titles. I think it's just a niche that gets avoided because everyone is trained to go for headshots in games and saying "Oh, you can hit the heart too, that's good" winds up getting ignored for the most part. It becomes a lucky break when you shoot blindly into someone's chest, at least in gameplay terms.
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Re: Nitpicky design failures in awesome games

Postby Dantez » Wed Jan 07, 2009 7:49 am UTC

There is one awesome MMO, I won't name it, of course..and your avatar is a plane. Seriously, you are just flying, killing mobs and upgrading your "Gear"..but here is the most annoying thing, that exists almost everywhere. Yes, idiots from opposite fractions. I know, that the idea of PvP fight is quite awesome, but not on the room where I play, please.
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Re: Nitpicky design failures in awesome games

Postby Jack Saladin » Wed Jan 07, 2009 8:43 am UTC

InstinctSage wrote:I find it humorous that people are playing Halo and looking for realism.

But heart shots should be built into more titles. I think it's just a niche that gets avoided because everyone is trained to go for headshots in games and saying "Oh, you can hit the heart too, that's good" winds up getting ignored for the most part. It becomes a lucky break when you shoot blindly into someone's chest, at least in gameplay terms.

MGS has heart shots, as well as instant kill groin shots, which are even better.

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Re: Nitpicky design failures in awesome games

Postby Felstaff » Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:18 am UTC

More games should have a 'you get hit anywhere, you drop like a goddamn stone, cause hey, you've just been shot.'

Shot in the head? Drop lifeless. Shot in the toe? Drop in agony. Shot anywhere in between? Drop like a fat guy tripping. Man, I'm incapacitated when I bang my shin on a coffee table. I don't recoil with a slight jerk, an eurgh! sound, and a fleeting red haze surround my peripheral vision to inform me of this fact, before running at full pelt again; I drop screaming to the floor, clutching my shin, not caring that the sniper in the clock tower is reloading.

There's only two games I can think of where this happens; Rainbow 6, and Insomnia. And one of those isn't even a game.

Aside thought: 2015 is the year they introduce meatspace HUDs.
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Re: Nitpicky design failures in awesome games

Postby wst » Wed Jan 07, 2009 7:55 pm UTC

Felstaff wrote:Shot in the head? Drop lifeless. Shot in the toe? Drop in agony. Shot anywhere in between? Drop like a fat guy tripping. Man, I'm incapacitated when I bang my shin on a coffee table. I don't recoil with a slight jerk, an eurgh! sound, and a fleeting red haze surround my peripheral vision to inform me of this fact, before running at full pelt again; I drop screaming to the floor, clutching my shin, not caring that the sniper in the clock tower is reloading.
Hopefully tactile game-clothing will help the 'red sight' thing. Because it'll feel like a real bullet hitting you in the crotch, when someone shoots you there.

So if someone takes a machine gun to your crotch, it'll be pretty darn orgasmic, because it can't actually hit you with the force of a bullet...

But most people manage to sort of crawl a bit before they die. Or get medical help. Also, with the crappy 5.56 bullets that everyone 'good' seems to be firing, the 'baddies' are walking away unharmed (big pinholes, it'll form a knot of muscle to fill it in. Not nice, but not fatal), while the 'baddies' are using old Russian guns that fire beefy 7.62's that actually knock you over. Another story for another time. Black Hawk Down is a good summary of it though.
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Re: Nitpicky design failures in awesome games

Postby Endless Mike » Wed Jan 07, 2009 8:18 pm UTC

In WarioWare for Wii (Shake It? I forget the subtitle.) you can't play multiplayer until you've played some single player. Seems like not a big deal, but it's a Wii game, which means there's a good chance it shines the most in multi! And guess what? That's exactly what it does!


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