Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

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EdgarJPublius
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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby EdgarJPublius » Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:15 am UTC

I've been playing BUG aggro in standard recently, and hating it. Ostensibly I should enjoy the deck, it has some unexpected and fun tech in it, most of my favorite cards and etc. But the reality of the deck was just not fun to play and every change I tried to make it better ended up either making it worse, or less fun.

So, I pulled it apart and started over with three new 2 color decks.
First, I rebuilt my GB aggro deck and then twerked it for the current standard environment, notably replacing Wolfir Avengers with Vampire Nighthawks, a little stressful on the color base, but not too bad, and the Nighthawk really adds a lot to the deck in terms of reach. And Deadbridge Goliaths with Corpsejack Menaces, which is slightly amazing, my new favorite play is T1 Arbor Elf, T2 Predator Ooze, T3 Corpsejack Menace. The Ooze grows out of control very quickly, Strangleroot's come back as huge 4/3 monsters and a Lotleth Troll with cards in hand is a significant threat.
Human Frailty in the sideboard is also nice, Human decks are a huge part of the current standard environment and many other decks run Human utility creatures like Avacyn's Pilgrim and Burning Tree Emissary, so even though the card is super narrow, it is well worth some sideboard slots.

Second deck is a hilarious UG Flash/Evolve deck, with Yeva and Master Biomancer at the top end. Evolve combat tricks never get old, and being able to flash in an entire blocking lineup, or avoid a Wrath by flashing in the team EOT off of Gyre Sage and a Yeva is very fun as well.

Elusive Krasis has been kind of an unexpected star in a couple of games. It's very easy to flash in enough blocker and evolve them big enough to stall out the more aggressive decks, and in those situations the unblockable guy with a fat butt can make a huge difference. It gets a third evolve trigger on most creatures (Fourth or fifth as well with a Master Biomancer and/or Zameck Guildmage) while being easily evolved itself, so not an unreasonable play early or late, dodges a lot of the removal in the format (especially once it's been evolved) and carries damage through an otherwise stalled game.

The deck doesn't really have a lot of reach though, especially against any kind of control. It basically relies on playing out lots of creatures at unexpected times and making them huge while keeping the opponent off balance. There are plenty of shaky slots I could use to give the deck some reach, I just don't know what to use.


The third and final deck is Suicide UB, featuring Duskmantle Seer and Vampire Nighthawk. I'm still working on this one, not sure whether to go for a more tempo focused build, or maybe a control/mill type thing. There are just too many options that look fun.
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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby KnightExemplar » Wed Apr 10, 2013 6:29 am UTC

I've been playing with a weird Esper deck. Early game, I try to survive a bit longer than usual with a combination of extort and hands of binding. (Ciphered onto a flier: Basillica screecher, Vampire Nighthawk, or Kingpin's pet). Comboing the extort on the Cipher trigger makes for a surprisingly stally early game. Best part of Hands of Binding + Flier usually forces the opponent to play more creatures or removal. Turn 4 or 5 rolls around and I Supreme Verdict, capturing card advantage if the opponent "dealt" with the creature in any real way. Bonus points if I managed to get one of my Blood Artists out before the board wipe... that is always nasty.

Endgame is Exquisite Blood / Vizkopa Guildmage combo for instant win. If both cards come out, a single life gained or lost will lead to instant-win for me. In practice, I've won games just extorting people to death off of Basillica Screechers + Hands of Binding, although this deck has major issues against Plainswalkers (especially Jace and Tamiyo).

Vs Lifegain, I don't care how much life they get. The endgame combo is instant win no matter what the opponent's life is. Swing with a lifelinker + 2nd ability from Guildmage. Many times, I can wait for the opponent to tap out while Exquisite Blood is out, and then play Guildmage + 2nd ability (5 mana total), swing for 1 dmg and instant-win off the combo. With 6 mana, I can play both abilities and instant-win as long as the opponent doesn't have instant-speed creature removal. (Lifelink + 2nd ability + Exquisite Blood).

Even then, there are plenty of ways of getting that 1 dmg (or 1 life gained) in to win the game:
* Blood Artist (if any creature dies this turn, I win)
* Duskmantle Seer's passive (if the opponent draws a non-land, I win)
* Extort
* Swing with a Basilica Screecher (if the opponent lets 1 dmg hit him, I win)
* Swing with Vampire Nighthawk (Lifelink ftw. If the Nighthawk so much as touches anything, I win)

Vs. Aggro is so-so. If Aggro gets a god-hand, I probably lose before anything goes off. Although, Hands of Binding / Basillica Screecher / Vampire Nighthawk are useful for stalling until the supreme verdict. If I get a supreme verdict off, its pretty much win from there.

Vs Midrange (including Junk), I feel confident with the deck. I'm running a few Orzov Charms for removal, and its been working out good enough. The Basillica Screecher + Hands of Binding deals with low-numbers of creatures pretty well.

Control is probably the deck's worst matchup: Important Plainswalkers shuts down Basillica Screecher + Hands of Binding completely, I can't Supreme Verdict their planeswalkers, and they Detention Sphere the Exquisite Blood. Second game, swap out the Blood Artists for Syndic of Tithes, grab some Duress, and opt for more spot removal (Orzov Charm / Tragic Slip). The more straightforward beatdown strategy seems to work decently.
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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby emceng » Thu Apr 11, 2013 5:40 pm UTC

Hey all. So we're doing a 3-color ally/enemy thing. So as the green seat, I again have to defeat blue and black, but I'm allowed to add allied colors to my deck - so green, white, red.

I had fun making an assemble the legion deck. Deck list is here, except I removed the guildgate and some refuges to get more basic land in there.

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost ... ostcount=8

Anyone have suggestions? I also was thinking Smoke might be useful in there. Maybe Wrath of God too. But I also don't want to screw over my allies, or make the game boring. I also don't want to spend more cash on this deck, but I have tons of commons and uncommons. So, more do you think this deck might work, and should I twerk it? I mean, mold adders could be awesome in this format(3 players casting blue, 3 casting black).
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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby Telchar » Fri Apr 12, 2013 6:00 am UTC

I think glittering wish is just begging to be abused. I'd run more in the main and run a more toolbox-y sideboard. The naturalize that populates out of Ravnica comes to mind. I'd try and run more hexproof or uncounterable creatures. Vexing Susher is good. If you have any, the red and green titans are probably pretty good in the match up. Sigarda also seems killer.
Zamfir wrote:Yeah, that's a good point. Everyone is all about presumption of innocence in rape threads. But when Mexican drug lords build APCs to carry their henchmen around, we immediately jump to criminal conclusions without hard evidence.

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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby emceng » Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:42 pm UTC

Ahh yeah. I have one vexing shusher I could throw in. I also have two Garruks I could put in. I don't know what to pull out though. I was thinking drop all 3 battlemages for another Thornscape and two adders. But after that? I like Glittering Wish, but there are so many 'good' cards, but not 'great' cards, that I could use it for.
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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby Telchar » Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:36 pm UTC

Those cards might not seem awesome, but having an answer to black's Gravepact when you need it turns enchantment removal into awesomesauce.
Zamfir wrote:Yeah, that's a good point. Everyone is all about presumption of innocence in rape threads. But when Mexican drug lords build APCs to carry their henchmen around, we immediately jump to criminal conclusions without hard evidence.

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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby headprogrammingczar » Fri Apr 12, 2013 8:48 pm UTC

emceng wrote:green, white, red


You get extra style points if you can work Palladia-Mors into the deck somewhere.
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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby KnightExemplar » Sat Apr 13, 2013 1:48 am UTC

Skullclamp is an asshole thing to do, lol. Banned in both Legacy and Modern, so I'd probably remove it if you're "just having fun". It'd be as if your blue opponent cast Jace the Mind Sculptor... except Skullclamp is more heavily banned than even Jace.

Your deck doesn't abuse Skullclamp correctly, but its still poor form to use such a heavily banned card IMO.
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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby b.i.o » Thu Apr 18, 2013 2:19 pm UTC

Aha! I have finally found a deck that is as much fun to play as standard BW tokens was before RTR arrived. It is...
Spoiler:
...modern BW tokens.

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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby emceng » Thu Apr 18, 2013 5:49 pm UTC

So played the RWG deck on Tuesday. I really like the Assemble the Legion deck, but it just didn't work in that format. My two opponents both had blue and black, so I either had stuff counterspelled, or creatures killed or mind controlled. First game I didn't have a card stay on the board for an entire round of play. I put something out, by the time it was my turn again, it was gone. Second game I nearly won. Took out blue, would have taken out black as well, but red took white down the turn before I did. Would have won playing a little differently oh well. Third game I tried a deck that I just threw together Monday night. Lots of multi-color stuff from Alara block. Then disintegrate, lightning bolt, and a ton of mana acceleration. It was a pretty fun deck too. Tied that game. Black and white went down, blue had 6 health left and nothing out. We were running out of time, but red would have done 4 damage on his turn, and I'd lightning bolt at the end.
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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby Telchar » Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:25 am UTC

Sooooo glad eggs got the banhammer....
Zamfir wrote:Yeah, that's a good point. Everyone is all about presumption of innocence in rape threads. But when Mexican drug lords build APCs to carry their henchmen around, we immediately jump to criminal conclusions without hard evidence.

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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby KnightExemplar » Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:14 pm UTC

How was the pre-release for all of yall?

I didn't get to go... I was busy last weekend. But it looked like a fun set to draft.
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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby phlip » Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:26 pm UTC

I've already typed my prerelease talkings up, so I'll just copy-paste them...
phlip wrote:I managed to 4-0 with Boros/Azorius - picking up the more aggro-tempo Azorius cards around a solid Boros base and crushed faces with it. The other prereleases I got a few 3-1s and 2-2s, and ended up 17-7 for the weekend, which I'm pretty happy with.

I also got quite lucky with the maze-running... for many of the prereleases I just happened to be in the guild that had by far the most people, and stomped the maze race. So I have 4 "Champion of the Maze" codes, and one "Maze Runner".

One 2-2 was a horrible 4-colour monstrosity... that surprisingly didn't have colour problems very often... with all 6 guildgates being useful, a Transguild Promenade and a Prophetic Prism I usually had my base 3 colours by turn 2 or 3, and the splash in enough time. I did however get screwed on mana quantity pretty much every game, stalling out on 2 or 3 in most games, with quite a few 4s in the deck. The games I won, my opponent also got starved of either land or spells, and I had time to recover. I don't feel like I got too unlucky, though, my deck wasn't very good, even when it hit its land drops.
The other 2-2 I was straight Selesnya... none of the other three colours seemed to be worth splashing. And that deck was reasonable... though I had some bad luck (and punted a couple of key games).

I haven't cracked my prize boosters yet, but just from what I opened in the prereleases, I have a handful of shock lands, Progenitor Mimic, Aurelia, 2 Clan Defiances, 4 of the maze runners (two twice, including the Polite Mind Sampler), a foil Putrefy, and a pile of other assorted rares, guild-logo tokens, signet badges, and alt-art Plains.

Good times. I had a lot of fun, and it starts to make up for missing all the GTC prereleases with the flu.

Re: rules interactions... I did hear after-the-fact about someone who had this "amazing combo" where they'd Agoraphobia a big guy, Runner's Bane it while its power was low, and then bounce the Agoraphobia to hand, to repeat on another creature. Unfortunately, that's not how Runner's Bane works - it's a restriction on what it's allowed to enchant, so if the enchanted creature ever goes above 3, the aura falls off as an SBA (just like animating a keyrune and enchanting it with an "Enchant Creature" - the aura falls off when it goes back to being just an artifact). I had to explain that a couple of times during the tournament, with the a couple of "Are you sure you want to put Runner's Bane on my Kraul Warrior/Beetleform Mage?" and a couple of hastily-retargeted spells...

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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby Bigtraine » Mon Apr 29, 2013 5:48 pm UTC

I played in two prereleases over the weekend. Went 4-0 (1st), 4-1 (4th) for an overall 8-1 on the weekend.

My first deck I chose Gruul and got paired with Golgari, but ended up going RGuw, playing straight RG with a blue splash for Ral Zarek (planeswalkers are good in limited, it turns out) and white for Advent of the Wurm. I played one Azorious guildgate, one Azorious Cluestone, one Selesnya Cluestone and one Izzet Cluestone to splash off of - might have been a little heavy on the cluestones but it gave me three sources of blue and three sources of white and I never had mana issues.

My second deck I went with Selenya and got paired with Orhzov. Not a great combo for me. My one match loss was pretty decisive and the 4 wins were mostly grind-em-out affairs.

Overall I like this sealed experience, I had a lot of fun playing this weekend.

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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby rath358 » Mon Apr 29, 2013 6:17 pm UTC

I went to a prerelease on Saturday. It was my first time playing Magic in a year or two. Very happy that I went.
I chose Azorius/Dimir. I pulled a Ral Zarek and a Master of Cruelties, which in theory more than pays for my $25 entrance cost. With help, I put together a blue white splash black splash red deck that performed decently. Went 4-3-0, which was enough to win an extra pack.
A good time was had.

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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby Telchar » Mon Apr 29, 2013 6:45 pm UTC

Went to the midnight release, went 3-1-1 and lost in the first round of top 8. Picked Simic and got paired with Izzet.

Ended up playing almost no green except for 3 Putrefy's (seems good) and I essentially played 5 color control with some burn, cyclonic rift, the izzet cyclops, and a few other tricksy removal/bomb spells. Overall I was pretty happy with the sealed format.
Zamfir wrote:Yeah, that's a good point. Everyone is all about presumption of innocence in rape threads. But when Mexican drug lords build APCs to carry their henchmen around, we immediately jump to criminal conclusions without hard evidence.

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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby Azrael001 » Tue Apr 30, 2013 3:15 am UTC

For the prerelease I got Boros/Azorius but I didn't get many good Blue cards, so I made a Naya deck and went 5 and 1 to be one of the players in the five way tie for first. The double Striking Hydra was the MVP though Madcap Skills and Assemble the legion were both pretty handy as well.

In the second one, I didn't do nearly as well, getting Rakdos as the alliance guild. I didn't get any removal in black, or really any good black cards, so I went with blue instead. The Azorius Champion and Dragon Shift were the two best cards I had. 3 and 3 put me at 15th place, just good enough to be the lowest ranking person to win cards.
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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby rmsgrey » Thu May 02, 2013 11:20 am UTC

For my Prerelease, I went Boros (I forget what my second guild was) and put together a slightly top-heavy mono-Boros deck. I won 8 out of my first 9 games, then got mana-screwed each game in the final round and lost the match 2-1 - and then discovered that the organisers had mis-entered my first-round result so I'd ended up facing easier opposition than I should have, while my first round opponent had been facing tougher opposition than he expected (actually, we were pretty evenly matched - he was my only other 2-1 and he won the friendly we played, so things could easily have gone the other way).

So, aside from that mixup, I had a pretty good tournament - highlights of the deck: Warleader's Helix (Lightning Helix for 4) and two copies of Gleam of Battle (6-mana enchantment: +1/+1 counter on each of my attacking creatures each combat)

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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby b.i.o » Sun May 12, 2013 8:21 am UTC

I love new limited formats where nobody has any idea what they're doing.

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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby Frimble » Sun May 12, 2013 4:43 pm UTC

b.i.o wrote:I love new limited formats where nobody has any idea what they're doing.

Me too, Their the best. I played a chaos draft the other day. Great fun although the power levels of the cards varied wildly.

Anyone else here play Commander EDH by the way?
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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby EdgarJPublius » Mon May 13, 2013 3:15 am UTC

b.i.o wrote:I love new limited formats where nobody has any idea what they're doing.



Absolutely. Before DGM dropped, my LGS did a couple of GTC-RtR-RtR and GTC-GTC-RtR drafts that were pretty crazy. Currently, they're letting pods choose whether they want to draft DGM-GTC-RtR or DGM-DGM-DGM.

Triple Dragon's Maze is an insane draft format
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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby phlip » Mon May 13, 2013 7:23 am UTC

EdgarJPublius wrote:Triple Dragon's Maze is an insane draft format

Play all the cluestones...

By my estimates, in triple-DGM, on average 40 will be opened at the table, in an 8-man draft. 5 per player, if they all take them about as highly as each other, potentially more if you prioritise them.

23 cluestones, 17 basics, deck built. Can't possibly lose.

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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby b.i.o » Tue May 14, 2013 11:28 am UTC

Everybody seems to think DGR is a format where you just play bombs and don't do anything until turn 5 or 6. This format may force you to play three colors, but it's still not anything like slow. There are SO MANY insane two drops at common/uncommon. Brushstrider, Daring Skyjeck, Gore-House Chainwalker, Shambleshark, Spike Jester, Syndic of Tithes, Tithe Drinker, Truefire Paladin, Wojeck Halberdiers, Burning-Tree Emissary, Deputy of Acquittals, Disciple of the Old Ways, Firefist Striker. And that's leaving off the guildmages, all of the rares/mythics, and plenty of other two-drops that you'd be very happy to have in any other limited format. Oh, right, and then there are the one drops: Boros Elite, Cloudfin Raptor, Dryad Militant (Savannah Lions! In two colors! With an upside! And it's not even close to the best one here!), Experiment One, Rakdos Cackler, etc.

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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby Kexizzoc » Fri May 17, 2013 12:22 am UTC

Odd question but does anyone on this thread live in Paris? I'm currently expatting for the next 2 months, and I just taught my girlfriend the game. The plus side is, French cards are a great way to pick up some obscure vocabulary.

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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby EdgarJPublius » Thu May 23, 2013 8:20 am UTC

Sticking with the GB ooze deck in standard right now. it does alright. Gaze of Granite is some nice sideboard tech against Tokens or Blitz decks.


Been playing around with Lazav in EDH. it's pretty hilarious. Stuff like Milling opponents out with multiple Consuming Aberration copies is fun, especially when I get to pick and choose from the best creatures for Lazav to become.
Stolen Identity is ridiculous with all my unblockable/evasive guys. Being able to put out two copies of Aberration and grind everyone a bunch of times is nice, but you can also use it to Legend rule enemy commanders or grab other nice utility creatures/artifacts.

Other than the Aberration, Chainer, Dementia Master has been an all-star, flashing opponents' creatures out of the graveyard for 3 life is awesome. I've found Kaalia decks in particular to be full of juicy targets, Avacyn is nice, as is having Aurelia out when my Aberrations get to 40+. Instant-speed Angel of Serenity is often a blow-out, as is Hellkite Tyrant stealing all the mana-artifacts.
But the best has to be Green decks running Vorinclex if I can copy it onto Lazav and then steal it from the graveyard, tripling my mana and enabling ludicrous Mind Grinds, Increasing Confusions and Sands of Delirium, filling graveyards with even more things to copy or steal.

EDIT: Oh yea, I saw a fun looking Mono-black infect control list for Modern that I have most of the pieces for, I'm thinking of ruining it by splashing Green for Abrupt Decay to augment the removal suite and maybe Blue for a little counter-magic since my collection is a little light on modern-viable hand-disruption. Basically, the deck is 28+ removal, hand-disruption and discard spells, two Runechanters Pikes and Phyrexian Crusaders, Vatmothers and Inkmoth Nexii
Thoughts? How does Tragic Slip or Virulent Wound stack up in Modern? The list runs 4x Disfigure and I'm wondering if it's worth the effort to track some down or if I can get away running the spells I already own. It seems like Disfigure would only be superior in a few matchups, and with the fat removal suite, it shouldn't be too difficult to trigger morbid on Slip. Also Virulent Wound is just silly, I love that card so much. Alternatively, maybe I just run Dismember?

Edit2:
WAT

Looks like my clone effects just got less useful in EDH
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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby rmsgrey » Thu May 23, 2013 2:18 pm UTC

EdgarJPublius wrote:Edit2:
WAT

Looks like my clone effects just got less useful in EDH


Well, on the down side, you can't kill your opponent's legends with them any more; on the upside, your opponent has to worry about you stealing the effects of his best creatures, and you can use Clone effects to disenchant Arrest victims...

I'm seeing two main negative reactions: "But the flavour!" and "Waaah, I can't use Clone as 'Destroy target legend even if it's untargetable and indestructible' anymore!". Entertainingly, they contradict each other - flavourwise, a shapeshifter copying a legendary creature should have no effect on the original - it certainly shouldn't make them both disappear in a puff of illogic!

The current legend rule was always a bit of an oddity - to fix the "Legends suck because it comes down to whoever plays theirs first locks the other copies out" problem, it made legend spells effectively "Either summon or destroy a powerful creature depending on whether he's already around". The new version at least says "Look, what we really want to do is stop you from having several copies of this effect around at once (without jumping through several hoops to arrange it) but we don't mind if each player has their own copy".

The new rule also reduces the perverse race-to-draw-a-specific-card aspect where the first to draw their copy blocks their opponent from using theirs.

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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby Frimble » Thu May 23, 2013 3:12 pm UTC

rmsgrey wrote:
EdgarJPublius wrote:Edit2:
WAT

Looks like my clone effects just got less useful in EDH


Well, on the down side, you can't kill your opponent's legends with them any more; on the upside, your opponent has to worry about you stealing the effects of his best creatures, and you can use Clone effects to disenchant Arrest victims...

I'm seeing two main negative reactions: "But the flavour!" and "Waaah, I can't use Clone as 'Destroy target legend even if it's untargetable and indestructible' anymore!". Entertainingly, they contradict each other - flavourwise, a shapeshifter copying a legendary creature should have no effect on the original - it certainly shouldn't make them both disappear in a puff of illogic!

The current legend rule was always a bit of an oddity - to fix the "Legends suck because it comes down to whoever plays theirs first locks the other copies out" problem, it made legend spells effectively "Either summon or destroy a powerful creature depending on whether he's already around". The new version at least says "Look, what we really want to do is stop you from having several copies of this effect around at once (without jumping through several hoops to arrange it) but we don't mind if each player has their own copy".

The new rule also reduces the perverse race-to-draw-a-specific-card aspect where the first to draw their copy blocks their opponent from using theirs.

A very good summery.

What I found more interesting though was the change to the way multiple lands get played in a single turn. Does that mean that I can't sacrifice my krosan wayfarer in my opponents turn to play an extra land? What about Sakura tribe scout?
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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby Telchar » Thu May 23, 2013 5:52 pm UTC

The rules changes definitely have more implication in modern and legacy but I don't think they are necessarily bad. Clone effects were used to counter sneak n show variants cheating emrakul and griselbrand into play. Honestly, I'd rather just have my own griselbrand.

The most interesting thing, imo, is how the esperblade variants mirror now. Using Jace to kill jace was definitely a thing but I see vindicate and maelstrom pulse seeing more play in these mirrors.
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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby EdgarJPublius » Thu May 23, 2013 7:57 pm UTC

rmsgrey wrote:I'm seeing two main negative reactions: "But the flavour!" and "Waaah, I can't use Clone as 'Destroy target legend even if it's untargetable and indestructible' anymore!". Entertainingly, they contradict each other


It's different groups of people having either reaction, you probably don't see a lot of people complaining about both at the same time (though there are always the internet-dwelling fans who are just adverse to change in general and will latch onto any criticism of the change they can find) The magic audience contains multitudes, a fact wizards has commented on many times in the past (see here, and here for example)


Honestly, I mostly like the change, it makes a lot of sense to me both flavor-wise and mechanically. Just the other day I was thinking it would be cool for magic to have a mechanic where each player could have one copy of a card in play but not multiples, that opens up valuable design and balance space, it probably also makes a lot more sense intuitively to new players (I know when I was first learning to play with planeswalkers, I often tried to 'refresh' them by playing a new one on top of one with only one or two loyalty left).

That said, I did like the old Legend rule as well. Most games that have some sort of Unique or Hero units have mechanics where both players can have theirs in play at the same time, but Magic was kind of unique itself in that there could really only ever be one copy of a legend or planeswalker out at the same time. I can understand why the change was made and even agree with it, but I would still like to maybe see some future cards that hearken back to the 'old' legend rule.

There will be some changes to how Legends are balanced though, especially in commander. A lot of Legends are build-arounds, you don't get the full advantage just having it in your deck or on the field. Someone who built their deck around Kaalia say, is going to get a lot more use out of it that someone who didn't.

Also, it makes Lazav less interesting and unique, since his whole schtick is basically being a copy of a creature that is 'immune' to being canceled out by the legend rule.

The new land rules are just weird. Seems to be solving a problem that didn't really exist and generating needless confusion along the way.
Last edited by EdgarJPublius on Thu May 23, 2013 11:16 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby rmsgrey » Thu May 23, 2013 9:06 pm UTC

EdgarJPublius wrote:The new land rules are just weird. Seems to be solving a problem that didn't really exist and generating needless confusion along the way.


I can sort of see the point of that one - the old land-drop rule was the sort of thing that's only intuitive to rules-lawyers - the sort of thing that makes damage on the stack look intuitive. Saying that you can use a card that lets you play one extra land per turn multiple times that turn as long as you can keep flickering it, so whenever you have something that lets you play one extra land per turn in play you must always specify which effect is letting you play each land you play (either the rules or an effect from a game object) means a lot of extra book-keeping for a very corner-case scenario.

The new rule: count up how many lands you're currently allowed to play this turn and compare that to how many you have played. If you've played at least as many as you're currently allowed, you can't play any more; if you haven't played as many as you're currently allowed yet, then you can play another one. Conceptually simpler, and avoids letting a corner-case warp play the rest of the time - and means you don't need to drag that part of the rules into the spotlight when people are playing the digital game.

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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby EdgarJPublius » Thu May 23, 2013 11:25 pm UTC

Somebody on reddit just pointed out that under the new Legends rule, Thespian Stage combo's very nicely with Dark Depths. BRB building Lands...
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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby phlip » Thu May 23, 2013 11:52 pm UTC

Frimble wrote:What I found more interesting though was the change to the way multiple lands get played in a single turn. Does that mean that I can't sacrifice my krosan wayfarer in my opponents turn to play an extra land? What about Sakura tribe scout?

No, it only affects times that you actually "play a land", in the normal way. So, your normal land drop for the turn, and things like Exploration or Urban Evolution that let you play additional lands. Not things like Krosan Wayfarer or Rampant Growth, whose effects just put a land onto the battlefield, rather than letting you "play an additional land".

Really the only time it makes a difference is when you play an additional land due to an effect, and then the effect that was giving you the ability to play that additional land goes away. Under the old rules, if you declared your land drop as the "additional" land drop granted by that effect, then it still counts as that when the effect goes away, and so you can still play other lands. Like with the example they used of Oracle of Mul Daya - if you have it out, you play one land, and the oracle dies - whether you can play a second land afterwards depends on whether you declared that land drop as your normal land for the turn, or your "additional" land. If it was your normal one, then you can't play another, because you're no longer allowed to play an additional one... but if it was your additional one, then you can still play your normal one. Which is just needlessly arcane. Under the new rules, it's the same either way - if you have Oracle out, you play one land, and the oracle does... you now have played 1 land this turn, and are allowed to play 1 land this turn, therefore no more land drops.

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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby Telchar » Sat May 25, 2013 9:40 pm UTC

EdgarJPublius wrote:Somebody on reddit just pointed out that under the new Legends rule, Thespian Stage combo's very nicely with Dark Depths. BRB building Lands...


After you use Thespian stage's ability, state based effects are checked and you must choose which Dark Depths to sacrifice. If you choose Thespian Stage, then it get's sacrificed while it's triggered ability is still on the stack. Then the trigger resolves, doesn't have a land in play to sacrifice, and goes away.
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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby EdgarJPublius » Sat May 25, 2013 10:29 pm UTC

yea, so you choose the original Dark Depths, then the trigger happens and Thespians Stage (which didn't come into play as Dark Depths so doesn't have any counters on it) is sacrificed and you get a 20/20
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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby mosc » Tue May 28, 2013 4:48 pm UTC

phlip wrote: if you have it out, you play one land, and the oracle dies - whether you can play a second land afterwards depends on whether you declared that land drop as your normal land for the turn, or your "additional" land. If it was your normal one, then you can't play another, because you're no longer allowed to play an additional one... but if it was your additional one, then you can still play your normal one. Which is just needlessly arcane. Under the new rules, it's the same either way - if you have Oracle out, you play one land, and the oracle does... you now have played 1 land this turn, and are allowed to play 1 land this turn, therefore no more land drops.

The later draws are the difference. If you play a big draw deck and use the oracle to lay a bunch of lands in the same turn, this change makes it a little harder for you. Removal can more effectively control your extra land drops.
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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby phlip » Wed May 29, 2013 3:24 am UTC

Sure, I'm not denying that it makes it worse for you as a player if you hit that edge case (or if you're playing a deck designed to exploit that edge case), I'm just saying the new rule makes a hell of a lot more sense, and is easier to understand and explain.

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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby EdgarJPublius » Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:10 am UTC

So, been playing around with my modern 'mono'-black infect list that currently looks like this:

Spoiler:
Creatures
  • 4x Deathrite Shaman (B/G)
  • 4x Phyrexian Crusader (1)(B)(B)

Artifacts
  • 2x Runechanter's Pike (2)

Instants
  • 4x Abrupt Decay (B)(G)
  • 4x Devour Flesh (1)(B)
  • 4x Funeral Charm (B)
  • 4x Virulent Wound (B)

Sorceries
  • 4x Inquisition of Kozilek
  • 4x Raven's Crime
  • 4x Sign in Blood

Lands
  • 4x Inkmoth Nexus
  • 4x Overgrown Tomb
  • 14x Swamp

Totals
  • Cards: 60
  • Creatures: 8
  • Lands: 22



Mostly played against legacy decks, but it held it's own, even against an (admittedly off-brand) Shardless BUG.

The deck is ridiculously fun. I've found that basically any hand with colored mana in it is playable, the hand disruption is enough to slow down even the most aggressive of decks and Deathrite Shaman allows for reliable ramping.

Raven's crime is especially effective, turning otherwise dead late land drops into more hand disruption. Even control opponents end up hellbent in short order and timely Funeral Charms can keep them off their draws.
Once a Phyrexian Crusader hits the table, it's almost always just a matter of time, but if all else fails, equipping a Pike to an animated Inkmoth Nexus is both fun and super-effective

I'm open to suggestions, especially for the sideboard
I probably need to switch the Virulent Wounds for Tragic Slips, if only because I find myself falling into the trap of chasing that 1 poison counter and throwing away too many cards trying to get it. Other stuff I'm less sure about.

I just wish more people actually played paper modern :/
Last edited by EdgarJPublius on Fri Jun 07, 2013 8:31 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby mosc » Fri Jun 07, 2013 6:44 pm UTC

That deck looks rather slow to me and also very easy to control. The protection from white and red on the crusader is your main threat but that's not really going to slow down a whole lot in my opinion. Black removal can kill him, which is increasingly popular in legacy. Name hosers also devastate your deck since it features only two different named offensive weapons (crusader and inkmoth). Inkmoth without it's activated ability is just a bad land.

I'll try to give some feedback but I have a hard time seeing this deck working as it stands much at all. Hand destruction is effective as a tempo or card advantage strategy, you are really featuring neither.
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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby Jesse » Fri Jun 07, 2013 8:47 pm UTC

Is it acceptable to talk about Duels of the Planeswalkers 2013 in here? I ask because I'm having hella fun in it (Still playing the campaign and unlocking decks/cards) and was hoping others also experience it and maybe want to play with me sometime.

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Re: Magic : The Gathering : The Thread : The Rename

Postby EdgarJPublius » Fri Jun 07, 2013 8:49 pm UTC

Yea, the paucity of threats concerns me a bit. The list I took my inspiration from ran Phyrexian Vatmothers as well, but that seems like the wrong choice to me. What about throwing a couple of Plague Stingers/Necropedes/Ichorclaw Myr in? Or even some Vector Asps? I've also considered a 1-or-2 of Skithiryx.
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Yes.

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