WoWzers!

Of the Tabletop, and other, lesser varieties.

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FoS
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby FoS » Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:38 am UTC

Sooooooo apart from the whiney nerdrage about PvP what do you guys think about the initial information about Ulduar?

I'm hoping that first encounter is a real mean motherfucker. Call me an elitist but I like to know the only other people in the instance aren't 12year olds polluting ./1
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Maseiken
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Maseiken » Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:52 am UTC

I'm looking forward to tha LOOOOOOOORE.
Particularly Thorim.
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Pizzashark » Fri Feb 20, 2009 12:27 pm UTC

I dunno, fighting Thorim is probably gonna be pretty lame. Ever notice that pretty much all the major players in the War3 storyline end up going batshit insane so we can kill them for purples? Kael went crazy and we killed him (twice.) Illidan went crazy(er) and we killed him. Seeing a pattern here?

That said, I'm looking forward to vehicle-based battles. I could totally get into a boss battle that starts out like Battlefield and then ends with you chucking players onto the boss so they can finish him off, Shadow of the Colossus style.

EDIT: And, yeah, I'd like to see harder content... maybe the "hard mode" fights will appease that. I'm fine with stuff being made more accessible to folks who just aren't very good at the game (like DPS people who can't break 1500 DPS in NX25 with full NX10 epics), but I really enjoy taking on challenging content. Glory of the Hero, anyone?

EDIT2: Also, killing Yogg-Saron might be interesting. We already killed C'thun in AQ40. There's another Old God dead in Darkshore. Assuming we really killed C'thun (and not just a mortal avatar or whatever) and we'll really be killing Yogg-Saron, that leaves two Old Gods left. That might attract the attention of the Titans, and I doubt they'll be pleased with us mortals fucking shit up.
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FoS
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby FoS » Fri Feb 20, 2009 12:46 pm UTC

If we are going to be killing another old god and not just banishing him he better be fucking hard, ala C'thun.

None of this wussy stuff. Only Hardcore Bastards need apply.
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Pizzashark » Fri Feb 20, 2009 1:06 pm UTC

Heh, as long as "hardcore" doesn't mean "six nights of wiping a week until we get past this cockblock!" ;)
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bigstrat2003
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby bigstrat2003 » Fri Feb 20, 2009 2:11 pm UTC

Some Asshole wrote:You know what? Bad business practices happen all the fucking time. Americans are laid off while jobs are shipped overseas. Those Nikes you're wearing may have been made in a third-world sweatshop by children. Guess what? It's gonna fucking happen whether you like it or not, and you're better off accepting that and taking advantage of it than screaming and crying about something that isn't going to change within your lifetime.


So you just accept it when people are dicks in real life? I guess that's a major difference between you and me, then. Most of us don't just sit back and watch when someone is an asshole to someone else, and shrug our shoulders and say "That's how it goes".

Some Asshole wrote:YOU are the one that's acting childish. You're refusing to accept things because they don't fit your personal views on how things should be, and are pitching a tantrum and calling people names as a result of this. If you don't like PvP, then I strongly suggest you transfer to a PvE server and stop wasting everyone's time with your pointless whining.


That's the most fucking retarded thing said yet. You're reveling in the fact that you're an asshole to people, and I'm childish? It's not childish to point out that you're being an asshole. It's childish to be an asshole, and then try to justify it using lame excuses when someone calls you out on it.

This is ridiculous, and I'm done with this. You guys need to grow the fuck up, and realize that going around deliberately sabotaging people's fun and enjoyment of anything makes you a bad person. But I guess you never will.

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Maseiken
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Maseiken » Fri Feb 20, 2009 3:16 pm UTC

Some Asshole wrote:I dunno, fighting Thorim is probably gonna be pretty lame. Ever notice that pretty much all the major players in the War3 storyline end up going batshit insane so we can kill them for purples? Kael went crazy and we killed him (twice.) Illidan went crazy(er) and we killed him. Seeing a pattern here?

True, but we already have a proper villain in Loken, and we've already had plenty of plot twists in this storyline, having us kill Thorim would be needless and irritating.
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby bigstrat2003 » Fri Feb 20, 2009 3:24 pm UTC

Maseiken wrote:
Some Asshole wrote:I dunno, fighting Thorim is probably gonna be pretty lame. Ever notice that pretty much all the major players in the War3 storyline end up going batshit insane so we can kill them for purples? Kael went crazy and we killed him (twice.) Illidan went crazy(er) and we killed him. Seeing a pattern here?

True, but we already have a proper villain in Loken, and we've already had plenty of plot twists in this storyline, having us kill Thorim would be needless and irritating.


We might redeem Thorim, a la Kalecgos.

Also, on the subject of the Titans not being happy with us killing Old Gods... why would they care? They're opposed to the Old Gods too, they'd be happy with the mortals for doing work for them.

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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Jebobek » Fri Feb 20, 2009 3:32 pm UTC

I like the vehicle concept. Vehicles added to the game does not necessarliy make the content easier/harder, as long as you have the other boss battles have a typical gear check. This will allow a bit of fun in the game but will stop people with bad gear hiding behind vehicles for the entire dungeon. I would also not mind the first two boss battles being skill/gear checks (BWL, anyone?)

Anyone remember Captian Placeholder? He was the guy that warped you from Menethil when Blizz was trying to fix the damn boat problem.

I want to see Captain Placeholder bust through a wall Kool-Aid-Man-Style with a ship to help you out during a boss battle. Maybe have some people run up into the crashed ship to shoot cannons at the boss? This is the direction Blizz needs to go with in boss battles.
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Maseiken » Fri Feb 20, 2009 3:43 pm UTC

I remember Placeholder. I was actually really irritated when he was gone, suddenly I had to wait for boats?
What a gyp!
I dunno...
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby bigstrat2003 » Fri Feb 20, 2009 3:49 pm UTC

Jebobek wrote:I would also not mind the first two boss battles being skill/gear checks (BWL, anyone?)


That's a bad idea. In BWL, it led to silliness as people would smash their faces on Razorgore/Vael, and then cruise until Chromag. Difficult fights is fine, but they need to be more spaced out than that. Also, having the first fight be really hard is bad because it's too discouraging. Save the hard fights for the third boss, second boss at worst. There needs to be something you can feel good about while you work on the hard fight.

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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Jebobek » Fri Feb 20, 2009 4:05 pm UTC

bigstrat2003 wrote:
Jebobek wrote:I would also not mind the first two boss battles being skill/gear checks (BWL, anyone?)


That's a bad idea. In BWL, it led to silliness as people would smash their faces on Razorgore/Vael, and then cruise until Chromag. Difficult fights is fine, but they need to be more spaced out than that. Also, having the first fight be really hard is bad because it's too discouraging. Save the hard fights for the third boss, second boss at worst. There needs to be something you can feel good about while you work on the hard fight.
Thats a fair arguement, and a Wing-style dungeon (Naxx) would probably be in order to satisfy both of our arguements. Easy wings could have easier bosses and harder wings could provide an immediate challenge to hardcore raiders.

It would be nice if you didn't have to do ALL of the wings to hit the final bosses; maybe you only need to do 2/4 to move on, and those bosses would drop loot accordingly. Sort of like better gear with 3 drakes.
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby aaron » Fri Feb 20, 2009 5:31 pm UTC

playing with a disc priest friend now, and it's working a lot better than mage/rogue. some of the fights we've done have been incredibly hilarious - here's a couple:

we fought a mage/rogue team (our counter) and the rogue was too afraid to come over and open on my priest because i'd just counter open. likewise, i didn't want to go over to the mage and put myself in a bad situation. so, we waited. we waited until the orbs came up, but my priest and i completely forgot about them. so the mage grabs a stealth detect orb and all of a sudden both of us in vent are like "SHIT HE GOT AN ORB OH GOD" and started humping the pillar like mad to stay out of LOS. my priest forgot to get the other one, so the mage grabs it again. again, pillar humping (nagrand) ensues while we're both screaming like girls on vent. so we wait another minute or so, grab the orbs and my priest knocks the other rogue out of stealth and i get the opener. the mage is off somewhere trying to dps down my priest while i'm fucking up his partner. the other rogue ends up dying due to a clutch dismantle (i have a wep chain so it was only 5 secs when he dismantled me back) and we end up teabagging the rogue with his mage joining us. we armoried them later that night and the team had been disbanded.

resto shaman/warrior. the warrior falls out of the pipes (dalaran) while the shaman ghost wolfs over to us. i sap the shaman and we both move over to the warrior to start dpsing him down. priest misses a fear on the shaman (we laughed about that) and the shaman heals the warrior to pretty much full. then, something struck us

me: the warrior isn't doing anything.
priest: i think he's afk.
me: why are we hitting him then? let's go for the shaman.

10 seconds later, the shaman is lying face down in the dirt and the warrior is charging us, having returned from his afk. i can't believe crap like that still happens in the 1800s.

last one, i swear.

spriest/lock. i sap the lock and get on the spriest. cloak to clear a few dots and all of a sudden, i see a green ball whiz past my head

priest: did... did he just death coil you while you were cloaked?
me: yep.
priest: wow.

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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Enssel » Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:10 pm UTC

I remember a 3v3 match that came down to my warrior vs their hunter, which I won with a throwing weapon kill and 134 life remaining.

Arenas are fun but they don't really make for the kind of stories world PvP does; I still remember camping the menethil <-> darkshore boat with a few friends, pretending we were nice to lowbies and then mind controlling them off the ship once we got far out to sea. heh once I was fighting this hunter who whored freezing traps underwater, slowly whittling him away; it got to the point where he started drowning, so instead of killing him I spammed hamstring until he drowned and took durability damage. There is nothing quite as awesome as winning a fight out of nowhere because your opponents suffocate.

(Also at least twice I've died on my undead warrior of drowning. It's not that I don't have a chance for air, but rather I don't even think about it... when he starts suffocating I think "what?? what the hell is this dot doing so much damage to me?" and then I have to check my combat log to see.)

I still have a level 50 priest who I don't ever play except to code addons. He stays at the bridge between arathi and wetlands MCing people who try to cross off, between UI reloads.

Some of my fondest memories are of showing up an hour early to raids with buddies just to spend the time griefing BRM, where like all endgame raiding and much of the 50+ instancing took place. A few times we even got alliance raids to zone out to fight us, heh. There's not really a focal area for world PvP like that anymore... imo that's where Wintergrasp fails, it's not really "world PvP" so much as "outdoor AV (with tanks)."

I want to reroll a rogue because the ganking power sounds incredible, and because imo rogues have the most well rounded chance of winning a 1v1 fight in general.

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Re: WoWzers!

Postby SecondTalon » Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:52 pm UTC

We're all done with the ganking argument, right?
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby aaron » Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:04 pm UTC

i think so

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Maseiken
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Maseiken » Sat Feb 21, 2009 2:18 am UTC

Lord, I hope so.
I get enough of that kind f conflict actually playing the game.
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Enssel » Sat Feb 21, 2009 2:27 am UTC

Totally unrelated but I have been playing through Planescape, and I'd always read that guy's name as "Dak'klon." Thank god for your sig or I would still be in the wrong.

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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Haistfu » Sat Feb 21, 2009 3:58 am UTC

So much tangent.
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Pizzashark » Sat Feb 21, 2009 10:42 am UTC

bigstrat2003 wrote:Also, on the subject of the Titans not being happy with us killing Old Gods... why would they care? They're opposed to the Old Gods too, they'd be happy with the mortals for doing work for them.


Well, the Tribunal of Ages event in Halls of Stone implies that if the Old Gods were killed, it would fuck Azeroth something royal. Presumably this is why the Titans didn't do the job themselves.

EDIT: ST, you're late to the party.
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby aaron » Sun Feb 22, 2009 1:47 am UTC

dk/pally is sooo rigged. when we win against them, it's always because of a 5 minute game that involves trying to split them and killing ghouls and oh god the pain

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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Haistfu » Sun Feb 22, 2009 4:51 am UTC

DK/Pally isnt too bad if youŕe patient.
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby aaron » Sun Feb 22, 2009 7:54 am UTC

i'm not though.

theory the undying

sup.

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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Haistfu » Sun Feb 22, 2009 5:46 pm UTC

What kinda DPS are you pulling as a rogue? Everyone on my server seems to think that rogues are gimped, and most of the DPS Ive seen seems to support that =\
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby SPsnow02 » Sun Feb 22, 2009 11:58 pm UTC

Hey everyone, I used to play rogue back in Vanilla WoW, and I absolutely DESTROYED dps with a Combat Daggers spec. The spec was based off of Heavy Backstab damage and talents that boosted backstab's crit % and Seal Fate which provides 2 Combo Points when your combo point moves crit. With all those points you can keep Slice and Dice up all the time and use lots of Eviscerates.

I tried to remake this for WOTLK (raiding),

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/cla ... 0000000000

Critique and Ideas?
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby aaron » Mon Feb 23, 2009 1:33 am UTC

you'd be too energy starved with that build. you're missing a crucial combat energy regeneration talent in the combat tree, so you'd pretty much be sitting on your hands waiting for that 60 energy to regen waiting for that next backstab. on top of that, backstab scales too poorly in wotlk. you'd probably be better off with a mutilate build, which offers a great energy regeneration talent as well as incredible CP generation

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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Haistfu » Mon Feb 23, 2009 3:35 am UTC

Theres also the fact that evis sucks for everything but pvp to consider.
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Gelsamel » Mon Feb 23, 2009 4:43 am UTC

I imagine a heavy sub build might actually use evis a lot. Once you put in enough points to get your INSANE combo gen (honor among thieves) you don't have enough to get envenom or imp poisons or anything so after your rupture is on the target you only have evis to dump combos into (and you really do have ridiculous combo points from Honor Among Thieves, unless they changed it).
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Haistfu » Mon Feb 23, 2009 4:48 am UTC

They nerfed HAT with 3.09 or 8, I believe.
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Gelsamel » Mon Feb 23, 2009 4:53 am UTC

Haistfu wrote:They nerfed HAT with 3.09 or 8, I believe.


I guess I'm not really all that surprised.
"Give up here?"
- > No
"Do you accept defeat?"
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"Do you think games are silly little things?"
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"Is it all pointless?"
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby aaron » Mon Feb 23, 2009 6:20 am UTC

it's still a really good single target build but you need a really stacked group with insane amounts crits that only high end guilds can offer

they fixed the part where each rogue in a group gave a combo point - ie 1 crit gave 3 combo points each for 3 rogues with HaT

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Re: WoWzers!

Postby FoS » Mon Feb 23, 2009 11:10 am UTC

Haistfu wrote:They nerfed HAT with 3.09 or 8, I believe.


Even Nerfed HAT is still pretty decent.


Meh, I want 6 nights of wiping type bosses. It's frustrating but in the end it's completely worth it.

Vashj and Kael kills are still way up there on my list of epic wow moments.
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Allenr » Mon Feb 23, 2009 4:47 pm UTC

Vash was my favorite boss fight in BC, although I didnt get to do it much because I only pugged it. On one kill, I was one of 4 people left alive, tank, healer, and 2 dps, we had to finish her off which took about 30 second of people yelling 1% in vent.

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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Chen » Mon Feb 23, 2009 5:21 pm UTC

FoS wrote:Meh, I want 6 nights of wiping type bosses. It's frustrating but in the end it's completely worth it.

Vashj and Kael kills are still way up there on my list of epic wow moments.


I doubt the 6 nights of wiping is going to occur unless you're in a very weak guild (which isn't the impression I'm getting). If very good guilds are wiping 6 nights in a row on something the mediocre/average guilds are never going to beat it.

Now that said, I'd fully expect that the "hard" mode fights in Ulduar WILL end up being wipefests, and ideally even for the high end guilds out there, to give people something to strive towards, without alientating the less hardcore by cockblocking the normal progression through the instance.

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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Haistfu » Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:26 pm UTC

My guild cant even swing Sarth + 2 yet and Im one of 4 dps consistently doing over 4000 dps single-target. I blame our horrible, horrible, loot system.
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Pizzashark » Tue Feb 24, 2009 5:47 am UTC

A proper loot system is very important, especially for progressing guilds. Stay away from DKP - all that system does is encourage people that are there to hoard points so they can get the one upgrade they really really want (like a Betrayer of Humanity) while passing over all the other upgrades they actually need. Our guild used a rank-based loot system (in that officers+veteran members were the highest and received priority, regular members were next, and raw recruits were at the bottom of the chain and were limited to one drop per run until they made regular member status) and it worked well for us.

Unfortunately, my guild's largely fallen apart due to raiding drama. Our original GM stepped down in late TBC due to both RL stuff (his son had just been born) and our raid leader wanting to be the big kahuna. Flash forward into LK and pretty solid progress into NX25 (up to KT), and the raid leader/GM steps down, citing that he refuses to be GM if things can't be done exactly how he wants them done - I don't know what he was babbling about, but he's a total control freak, so I wasn't surprised. Our original GM steps up and takes the reins again, but we lose a couple of folks over drama related to the RL stepping down (he-said-she-said shit.) Some of these other folks were officers, so we promote some promising newer members who had proven in the past that they were willing to step up and take responsibility the positions. This causes more drama among some of the other remaining (LAZY) members, who insisted they should have been given the positions due to seniority, even though the newer members were putting in a fuckton more effort than they were (farming mats for consumables, donating to the guild bank, leading raids in absence of officers, etc etc.) These jealous cockbites promptly gquit and spread a bunch of shit about nepotism and favoritism. Eventually things fell apart, all starting because the former raid leader is/was a jealous douche. Apparently he'd log on during raid times, refuse to raid (because he wasn't allowed to lead), and just taunt people and spread a bunch of shit. Ridiculous.

I cancelled my subscription today. I've got a little over two weeks left on the current pay cycle, so we'll see if I can find something fun to do with WoW in that time, otherwise I'll probably just take a couple months off until 3.1 and Ulduar (and hopefully some PvP balance changes) arrives.
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Gelsamel » Tue Feb 24, 2009 5:53 am UTC

DKP is fine. Every systems has it's ups and downs but DKP is one of the better ones honestly.
"Give up here?"
- > No
"Do you accept defeat?"
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"Do you think games are silly little things?"
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"Is it all pointless?"
- > No
"Do you admit there is no meaning to this world?"
- > No

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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Pizzashark » Tue Feb 24, 2009 7:19 am UTC

The only issue is that it starts people saving up those points for the big items instead of spending them on the items they actually need for proper raid progression. That Betrayer of Humanity sure is nice, but your DPS is going to be better with, say, an Armageddon and full ilvl 213 epics than a BoH and ilvl 200 epics.
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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Gelsamel » Tue Feb 24, 2009 7:50 am UTC

Some Asshole wrote:The only issue is that it starts people saving up those points for the big items instead of spending them on the items they actually need for proper raid progression. That Betrayer of Humanity sure is nice, but your DPS is going to be better with, say, an Armageddon and full ilvl 213 epics than a BoH and ilvl 200 epics.


But people are going to be stupid in every situation (ie. regardless of the loot system).
"Give up here?"
- > No
"Do you accept defeat?"
- > No
"Do you think games are silly little things?"
- > No
"Is it all pointless?"
- > No
"Do you admit there is no meaning to this world?"
- > No

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Re: WoWzers!

Postby Pizzashark » Tue Feb 24, 2009 7:59 am UTC

Oh, no doubt. If you have free rolls they whine about shitty luck; if you use any form of loot council, they cry about favoritism. But DKP tends to encourage this behavior more than most other forms of loot systems.
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