Minecraft

Of the Tabletop, and other, lesser varieties.

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blalobw
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Re: Minecraft

Postby blalobw » Tue Nov 22, 2011 9:29 pm UTC

I don't recall if there was a video or not, all I did was read the explanation.

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Re: Minecraft

Postby blalobw » Tue Nov 22, 2011 10:49 pm UTC

Steax wrote:Now here's one thing. I know carts will pile up at various stations, so what I want to do is launch them all back at spawn (with me in a rear cart) and let them all return to the main dispenser. This means there needs to be a mechanism that automatically pushes carts in (instead of the current pressure plate trapdoor method) but has a delay to let people leave (or people might get stuck in the dispenser, which would be far from good).


Sadly it doesn't work that way, occupied minecarts travel faster than unoccupied ones so you'll bump into them and stop.

One of my first ideas was a section of track with slopes and boosters such that whereever the cart unloaded and lost momentum it would either be on a booster and get boosted forward, or the slope would roll it forward onto the booster. That way whenever anyone passed them on the track they would progress towards thier destination. At this point I think that such a track is not possible. (Note my use of reverse psychology to trick someone into solving this problem thinking that I'll be displeased if I'm proven wrong.)

The solution I posted is one possible way to make freight trains work.

EDIT: I just thought of another way! Basically you use two parallel tracks, one with powered rails spaced for storage carts and the other with powered rails spaced extra wide so that the average speed of the occupied cart is as slow as the freight train.

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Re: Minecraft

Postby SecondTalon » Tue Nov 22, 2011 10:53 pm UTC

There's also the issue of chunks loading and whatnot. If the cart travels more than 9 chunks away from a player, it'll... cease, basically, until a player comes near. And I don't think momentum is stored, so you just suddenly have a dead cart on the tracks.

Speaking of - how big of a pain would it be to prevent empty carts from traveling too far from the Terminal at Spawn? Something to basically catch them and route them back to a storage area?
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Re: Minecraft

Postby Steax » Tue Nov 22, 2011 11:41 pm UTC

blalobw wrote:EDIT: I just thought of another way! Basically you use two parallel tracks, one with powered rails spaced for storage carts and the other with powered rails spaced extra wide so that the average speed of the occupied cart is as slow as the freight train.


I hate you. Now I have to build 4-tracked routes.

... Yay!

SecondTalon wrote:Speaking of - how big of a pain would it be to prevent empty carts from traveling too far from the Terminal at Spawn? Something to basically catch them and route them back to a storage area?


I'd love to find a way to do that, but it depends on detecting empty carts... The only way I can think of would be to have a passenger hit a button within n seconds, but then we lose the idle-ability of minecart travel.
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Re: Minecraft

Postby SurgicalSteel » Tue Nov 22, 2011 11:50 pm UTC

Hit a button at the beginning of your trip once that keeps the gate open for x amount of time, x being long enough for the cart to travel past the empty off ramp?
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Re: Minecraft

Postby Feylias » Tue Nov 22, 2011 11:56 pm UTC

Steax wrote:
blalobw wrote:
SexyTalon wrote:Speaking of - how big of a pain would it be to prevent empty carts from traveling too far from the Terminal at Spawn? Something to basically catch them and route them back to a storage area?


I'd love to find a way to do that, but it depends on detecting empty carts... The only way I can think of would be to have a passenger hit a button within n seconds, but then we lose the idle-ability of minecart travel.
I...may be missing something, but couldn't it simply have off-ramps every so often that only go straight if triggered by a preceding detector rail? Carts without passengers will thus veer of and go into a holding area for other processing?

I'll test this when I get home.

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Re: Minecraft

Postby Magnanimous » Tue Nov 22, 2011 11:57 pm UTC

blalobw wrote:So you can push minecarts with a wall in between you and them? Neat!

I can't get this to work... Maybe I'm just doing something wrong.

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Re: Minecraft

Postby Xerillum » Wed Nov 23, 2011 12:36 am UTC

Maybe there's a way to use the different speed of the passenger carts vs the empty carts? Maybe a t-junction where carts moving from one direction pass through, but carts coming from an opposite direction get removed. Behind this t-junction is a hill tall enough that empty carts can't pass over it, but passenger carts can.

I tested this in creative mode, and it seems to work great. I haven't optimized the placement of powered rails, though, and I only tested it with a few carts. Also, it takes up some amount of vertical space.

Spoiler:
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Last edited by Xerillum on Wed Nov 23, 2011 12:49 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Minecraft

Postby The Scyphozoa » Wed Nov 23, 2011 12:45 am UTC

So the issue is getting minecarts back to spawn, right? And someone has to be near them?

Why not just have someone carry the minecarts?
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Re: Minecraft

Postby blalobw » Wed Nov 23, 2011 12:47 am UTC

Xerillum wrote:Maybe there's a way to use the different speed of the passenger carts vs the empty carts? Maybe a t-junction where carts moving from one direction pass through, but carts coming from an opposite direction get removed. Behind this t-juction is a hill tall enough that empty carts can't pass over it, but passenger carts can.

I'll test it out and post pics.


That is both brilliant, simple, highly likely to work, and cheap to build!

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Re: Minecraft

Postby SirBryghtside » Wed Nov 23, 2011 12:49 am UTC

Got 1.8 now, should be coming back on the server soon :)
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Re: Minecraft

Postby blalobw » Wed Nov 23, 2011 12:57 am UTC

The Scyphozoa wrote:So the issue is getting minecarts back to spawn, right? And someone has to be near them?

Why not just have someone carry the minecarts?


There actually seem to be three minecart related things under discussion.

A freight system to move massive quantities of stuff back to the communarium.

Dealing with empty carts on the rails.

And of course returning empty carts to Grand Central.

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Re: Minecraft

Postby MrMonkey » Wed Nov 23, 2011 1:55 am UTC

Map Updated :D

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Re: Minecraft

Postby Feylias » Wed Nov 23, 2011 2:44 am UTC

If you have a cart moving FULL speed downhill over a detector rail, as in this youtube clip, or like the picture here:
Spoiler:
2011-11-22_17.17.28.png
Got it!
you can get the carts carrying passengers to consistently go a different way than the ones that don't.

It took some doing to get the player to go straight and the empty carts to turn. Note the wire connecting the detector rail to the inverter to the intersection.

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Re: Minecraft

Postby Steax » Wed Nov 23, 2011 3:23 am UTC

So for the 3 matters that bla mentioned:

1. Getting freight around. Problem: They're ridiculously slow. And by ridiculous, I mean ridiculous. If you have 2 powered rail at a terminus with a button, sometimes it even fails to launch at all - the cart doesn't make it off the second powered rail before the button dies. I had to put powered rail every 5 blocks to get them to work consistently. Feel free to check the south line of the Skyway to see for yourself.

2. Dealing with empty carts. Still not sure.

3. Returning empty carts. The posted methods look awesome!

And thanks for the updated map! That's really new.
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Re: Minecraft

Postby SurgicalSteel » Wed Nov 23, 2011 4:23 am UTC

The flag for ... um ... uh ... my as yet to be named area.
2011-11-22_23.00.12.png


I didn't see anybody else using this pattern. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
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Re: Minecraft

Postby _infina_ » Wed Nov 23, 2011 4:41 am UTC

The Helpful Nomads are still deciding on a flag.
Spoiler:
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Re: Minecraft

Postby Magnanimous » Wed Nov 23, 2011 4:42 am UTC

Steax wrote:1. Getting freight around. Problem: They're ridiculously slow. And by ridiculous, I mean ridiculous. If you have 2 powered rail at a terminus with a button, sometimes it even fails to launch at all - the cart doesn't make it off the second powered rail before the button dies. I had to put powered rail every 5 blocks to get them to work consistently. Feel free to check the south line of the Skyway to see for yourself.

Sorry if this has been brought up before, but can't you use powered minecarts with coal for freight? Just have a train of one minecart (with passenger), an arbitrary number of storage carts, and one powered cart in the back. Or more, if you need to get up hills.

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Re: Minecraft

Postby Steax » Wed Nov 23, 2011 6:16 am UTC

That works, but I dislike having to spend coal for fuel. Compared to gold for power rail, though, it might indeed be the only solution. I just don't like the lack of control with powered carts, as well as the difficulty of getting them to turn around.
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Re: Minecraft

Postby Magnanimous » Wed Nov 23, 2011 6:24 am UTC

The wiki says that one coal powers it for about four minutes, which is most likely enough to make it anywhere on the server. They're currently glitched in 1.8.1 though, so wait until the server updates.

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Re: Minecraft

Postby Steax » Wed Nov 23, 2011 6:45 am UTC

Powered carts it is. I wonder if I could punch a track to the Green and kidnap all of Gana's cattle.
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Re: Minecraft

Postby Kain » Wed Nov 23, 2011 7:52 am UTC

But, but... gold is renewable now...
And yes, coal is too, of sorts, but everyone knows charcoal is only intended for torches :)
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Re: Minecraft

Postby The Scyphozoa » Wed Nov 23, 2011 7:59 am UTC

Sure gold is renewable. With an average of 108 zombie pigmen killed per powered rail. I'm not even sure how nether spawning really works, but if it's the same for zombie pigmen in the nether as it is for most baddies in overworld, you could probably make some kind of zombie pigman grinder.

But still, 108 kills on average just for one piece of powered rail.
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Re: Minecraft

Postby Kain » Wed Nov 23, 2011 10:53 am UTC

Of course, one could also mine gold, which is pretty much useless for anything other than powered rails :)

Also, yay! Sheared sheep remember their color! Now does anyone know if they regrow their wool?
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Re: Minecraft

Postby Jahoclave » Wed Nov 23, 2011 8:15 pm UTC

Kain wrote:Of course, one could also mine gold, which is pretty much useless for anything other than powered rails :)

Also, yay! Sheared sheep remember their color! Now does anyone know if they regrow their wool?

I read something somewhere about them eating grass and then regrowing wool--I don't know if that's actually in the game yet, but it seems a little silly to not have sheep regrow wool. Or, at least you'd think that'd be something they'd have actually thought more important than dicking around with how the sky works.

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Re: Minecraft

Postby jestingrabbit » Wed Nov 23, 2011 9:46 pm UTC

The Scyphozoa wrote:Sure gold is renewable. With an average of 108 zombie pigmen killed per powered rail. I'm not even sure how nether spawning really works, but if it's the same for zombie pigmen in the nether as it is for most baddies in overworld, you could probably make some kind of zombie pigman grinder.


You can't drown or lava them to death, so that leaves falls, and I think you'd need pistons to push them off. So, a huge array of ledges with pistons firing periodically, or pressure plate triggered, to dump them down a fall high enough to kill, or a series of falls. And then collection would be pistons pushing the gold to a single point. That's a lot of pistons. Plus, you'd need/want to avoid whatever problems ghasts would probably cause.
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Re: Minecraft

Postby Magnanimous » Wed Nov 23, 2011 9:57 pm UTC

I feel like it'd be easier to just make a big spawning room and run in periodically run in with a diamond sword and kill everything.

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Re: Minecraft

Postby The Scyphozoa » Wed Nov 23, 2011 10:18 pm UTC

But then you risk your own life if you ever venture outside the tunnels, because the others will be pissed.

And when the server updates you can drown them. Someone needs to get the Silk Touch enchantment and collect ice blocks. Then break them without silk touch in the Nether.
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Re: Minecraft

Postby Meteorswarm » Wed Nov 23, 2011 10:36 pm UTC

Jahoclave wrote:And Narnia now has its first automated melon harvester. Soon to be about four of them plus three pumpkin harvester. That is, assuming a certain Meteor's slime spawner didn't have such cowardly slimes that they refuse to show themselves.


That entire spawner only caught the edges of four slime chunks. Still, I collected many slime balls from excavating, and you're welcome to take what you need from the chest at the bottom of the staircase. If you want to repay me, feel free to dig some shafts down to bedrock :D

Meem1029 wrote:So thanks to an idea of Rirez's, the sugar farm is now afk friendly (ish). It runs on underground redstone so that it pulses once every while. I'll probably make the while longer in the near future, but I only had so many repeaters. Also, try not to go underground around that area immediately under any structures or to the left behind the center. It's all covered in redstone wiring that I've killed by flooding it multiple times.


For really long periods, you should make a redstone clock like the one that powers Ganalef's cobblestone jenny, and hook it to a tape; at its slowest, one tick happens every four seconds, and you could put up to 48 blocks on the tape with only 4 pistons, so that'd be a 192 second cycle, or about 3 minutes. You could even make that tape drive another tape, for another up to 48-times slowdown, and it's all stable with respect to server shutdown and such. I could even build it for you!

blalobw wrote:Up until now the best auto-reseting invisible secret door I saw used a stream of water released when the door was opened to wash away the redstone torch used to open it.


I have one of these. It's a super-simple model that takes advantage of a natural non-flat section of Castle Impenetrable's wall; I'd be happy to show you if you didn't tell anyone else where it is.
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Re: Minecraft

Postby tHe_kiiD » Wed Nov 23, 2011 11:54 pm UTC

Meteorswarm wrote:
Jahoclave wrote:And Narnia now has its first automated melon harvester. Soon to be about four of them plus three pumpkin harvester. That is, assuming a certain Meteor's slime spawner didn't have such cowardly slimes that they refuse to show themselves.


That entire spawner only caught the edges of four slime chunks. Still, I collected many slime balls from excavating, and you're welcome to take what you need from the chest at the bottom of the staircase. If you want to repay me, feel free to dig some shafts down to bedrock :D


where can we get these slime balls you speak of? I could in exchange dig for you.

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Re: Minecraft

Postby Magnanimous » Thu Nov 24, 2011 12:21 am UTC

I've been playing around with redstone... Here's a little surprise for someone going up a ladder.
Attachments
2011-11-23_14.16.24.png
2011-11-23_14.16.41.png

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Re: Minecraft

Postby Jahoclave » Thu Nov 24, 2011 12:25 am UTC

Ah. I did take one stack. I'll do something for you at some point. I was working on excavating some actual chunks at the bombing range.

The yogscast finally responded:http://www.reddit.com/r/Minecraft/comments/mnau9/yogscast_response_to_notchs_twitterings/

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Re: Minecraft

Postby Steax » Thu Nov 24, 2011 2:18 am UTC

Kid, it appears that something blew up near your chests. I've collected the items back into several (unorganized) chests, but haven't been able to repair the structural damage. I'll try that in a few minutes.
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Re: Minecraft

Postby Meteorswarm » Thu Nov 24, 2011 2:19 am UTC

Jahoclave wrote:Ah. I did take one stack. I'll do something for you at some point. I was working on excavating some actual chunks at the bombing range.


Cool. The slimes gather near the doorway, across from the doorway on the opposite wall, and in both corners on the left side as you're standing in the doorway looking at the room. What I've been doing is digging down a 2x2 column, and then looking around (it has to be daytime to cut through the bedrock fog) to see if there are slimes. A single giant slime will yield about 20 balls, so it's prety lucrative, but they don't spawn all the time.

The elevator near the bottom is also a quick way back up. Make sure to read the instructions, though.
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Re: Minecraft

Postby Jahoclave » Thu Nov 24, 2011 4:04 am UTC

Meteorswarm wrote:
Jahoclave wrote:Ah. I did take one stack. I'll do something for you at some point. I was working on excavating some actual chunks at the bombing range.


Cool. The slimes gather near the doorway, across from the doorway on the opposite wall, and in both corners on the left side as you're standing in the doorway looking at the room. What I've been doing is digging down a 2x2 column, and then looking around (it has to be daytime to cut through the bedrock fog) to see if there are slimes. A single giant slime will yield about 20 balls, so it's prety lucrative, but they don't spawn all the time.

The elevator near the bottom is also a quick way back up. Make sure to read the instructions, though.


Yeah, I've used the vator a few times.

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Re: Minecraft

Postby Steax » Thu Nov 24, 2011 4:39 am UTC

Jahoclave wrote:Yeah, I've used the vator a few times.


Uh?


...



Oh, right, elevator. Was that supposed to push you all the way to the snowy surface level, though?

I can see this becoming a cruel joke for Roos, though.
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Re: Minecraft

Postby Meteorswarm » Thu Nov 24, 2011 4:56 am UTC

Steax wrote:
Jahoclave wrote:Yeah, I've used the vator a few times.


Uh?


...



Oh, right, elevator. Was that supposed to push you all the way to the snowy surface level, though?

I can see this becoming a cruel joke for Roos, though.


Because the lag in communicating with the server, the elevator doesn't work as usual. But, if you get shoved inside a block, and log out and back in, it moves you up into the first open space. So I filled the elevator shaft with gravel, and you *should* pop out at the top of the shaft. If you go somewhere else, well, that happens too...
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Re: Minecraft

Postby The Scyphozoa » Thu Nov 24, 2011 5:51 am UTC

Jahoclave wrote:Ah. I did take one stack. I'll do something for you at some point. I was working on excavating some actual chunks at the bombing range.

The yogscast finally responded:http://www.reddit.com/r/Minecraft/comments/mnau9/yogscast_response_to_notchs_twitterings/

Failing to make sure the URL parsed correctly? I expected better.
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Re: Minecraft

Postby Josephine » Thu Nov 24, 2011 7:46 am UTC

Blog: I got inspired earlier, and decided to do something big. Step 1 involves terraforming. I need to reshape this area
Spoiler:
toodamnbig.jpg
into a slowly sloping downwards caldera, and in the middle, build a huge mountain.

This could take a while.
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Re: Minecraft

Postby Steax » Thu Nov 24, 2011 8:08 am UTC

Josephine wrote:Blog: I got inspired earlier, and decided to do something big. Step 1 involves terraforming. I need to reshape this area
Spoiler:
toodamnbig.jpg
into a slowly sloping downwards caldera, and in the middle, build a huge mountain.

This could take a while.


And a lot of picks.

Meteorswarm wrote:Because the lag in communicating with the server, the elevator doesn't work as usual. But, if you get shoved inside a block, and log out and back in, it moves you up into the first open space. So I filled the elevator shaft with gravel, and you *should* pop out at the top of the shaft. If you go somewhere else, well, that happens too...


Yeah, I realized that. Doesn't this mean if you can time the elevator correctly, you can just place a few pistons as a base, and the rest solid stuff?
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