Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Of the Tabletop, and other, lesser varieties.

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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby SecondTalon » Thu Feb 17, 2011 11:41 pm UTC

Vaniver wrote:
Menacing Spike wrote:You could just mention he easily slaughtered heroes far more renowned and better equipped than the party. Or put a ripped apart kraken near his lear or... or something.
"You mean there's great loot there? Let's go!"

For a signal to be effective, both parties have to understand what it means. Developing that language is an important task that should be taken seriously, especially when a TPK is on the line.
The draon has shown force, then demanded and received tribute from a [farmer|small farming community|village|small town|large town|city|major city|small nation|several small nations/large nation|the western continent]

If the 4th level party goes after the dragon taking a cut from the Major City's profits, they deserve the TPK for being fucking stupid. Hell, they probably couldn't take out the dragon who's doing good to get a tribute from a single farmer or small farming community unless it's a "dragon" by way of Ghost Image and a goblin shaman or something.

There's no need for Heroic Paragon Epic language. Not unless you have /consider as being a valid Standard Action. Not in the "Trying to give a grander sense of scale without sticking a 'Loot Me NAO' sign on everything" method of worldbuilding. Now, when the party starts getting in to actual research on the subject and doing some asking around.. sure, break out that sort of language then. But until then, it should be enough for a <10 level party to know that the Dragon's holding a city or two under it's sway to keep them from rushing off after it.

And hell, even if they are of the appropriate level, if they don't do recon, they.. continue to deserve the TPK.
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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby Age of Fable » Fri Feb 18, 2011 4:46 am UTC

BlackSails wrote:How do you plan to run away from something that is faster than you, stronger than you, and can cast more powerful spells than you? Trying to flee from a dragon at low level is like basically like trying to flap your arms and fly. Sure, the mechanics are all there, but its just not happening.


Once again, no, that's not how the evasion rules work.

And, once again, none of this is either helping or answering the question (or based on the rules set I'm using).
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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby Age of Fable » Fri Feb 18, 2011 4:51 am UTC

SecondTalon wrote:But I wouldn't want to keep coming back to a game that was 3d6 in order as it's going to be... way the hell too imbalanced. Shelia the Great (lowest stat, 15 Wis) is going to carry the party on her own while Tim the Tiny (Highest Stat 8 Cha) is going to be .. at best... bait.


This is wrong.

Wisdom of 15 gives clerics a bonus to XP. Having the highest stat of 8 means you won't get a bonus to XP (you can raise one to 9), and have -1 to hit with missile weapons only.

That, and a character with high Con will have +1 to Hit Points and a character with low Con will have -1.

You're arguing against a rules system other than the one I specificially said I was using.

I don't think it's even true in the rules system you're imagining I'm using, because it has a rule about re-rolling 'hopeless characters'.
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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby EmptySet » Fri Feb 18, 2011 12:37 pm UTC

If a character with scores of 18 18 17 15 17 16 is only marginally better than character with 3 5 4 7 6 8, what's the point of even having those scores? They would be completely irrelevant if your players rolled anything approaching the expected range. It would be much simpler to just assume everyone is average, and the effect on gameplay would be barely noticeable. Except for the fact that it would be much faster because there wouldn't be a pile of useless information cluttering everyone's character sheet.

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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby Age of Fable » Fri Feb 18, 2011 12:44 pm UTC

EmptySet wrote:If a character with scores of 18 18 17 15 17 16 is only marginally better than character with 3 5 4 7 6 8, what's the point of even having those scores? They would be completely irrelevant if your players rolled anything approaching the expected range. It would be much simpler to just assume everyone is average, and the effect on gameplay would be barely noticeable. Except for the fact that it would be much faster because there wouldn't be a pile of useless information cluttering everyone's character sheet.


I more or less agree with this.
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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby Chen » Fri Feb 18, 2011 1:38 pm UTC

Age of Fable wrote:Once again, no, that's not how the evasion rules work.

And, once again, none of this is either helping or answering the question (or based on the rules set I'm using).


Even if it doesn't help I gotta wonder how those evasion rules actually work then. If you "encounter" a dragon I find it hard to find a reasonable way to escape it short of magic or maybe fast horses (depending on edition and relative speeds).

Age of Fable wrote:
SexyTalon wrote:But I wouldn't want to keep coming back to a game that was 3d6 in order as it's going to be... way the hell too imbalanced. Shelia the Great (lowest stat, 15 Wis) is going to carry the party on her own while Tim the Tiny (Highest Stat 8 Cha) is going to be .. at best... bait.


This is wrong.

Wisdom of 15 gives clerics a bonus to XP. Having the highest stat of 8 means you won't get a bonus to XP (you can raise one to 9), and have -1 to hit with missile weapons only.

That, and a character with high Con will have +1 to Hit Points and a character with low Con will have -1.

You're arguing against a rules system other than the one I specificially said I was using.

I don't think it's even true in the rules system you're imagining I'm using, because it has a rule about re-rolling 'hopeless characters'.


Note he said 15 was the first person's LOWEST stat and 8 was the HIGHEST stat the other person rolled.

Forget hopeless characters though. Back in 2nd ed (which may still not be the same system you're using) the difference between an 18 Stat and a 10 stat was HUGE. 18 dex was -4 AC (which was good, stupid Thac0) and I think a +2 missile adjustment, compared to no bonus at 10. 18 Str was something like +1 hit/+3 damage. 18/00 Str was +3 hit/+6 damage. When there were not many things to increase damage dealt by melee that makes a BIG deal. Again 10 was no bonus. Having greater than 15 or 16 in your prime stat gave you bonus exp which was an even bigger kick to those who rolled low. Not only are you less effective in combat due to stats, you also level slower.

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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby Age of Fable » Fri Feb 18, 2011 2:37 pm UTC

Forget hopeless characters though. Back in 2nd ed (which may still not be the same system you're using...[lengthy discussion of 2nd edition]


I specifically said what system I'm using. I could repeat myself, but what good would it do? Someone who ignores one post will probably ignore another.
Last edited by Age of Fable on Fri Feb 18, 2011 2:54 pm UTC, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby SecondTalon » Fri Feb 18, 2011 2:48 pm UTC

1st. Which honestly, is something I've not really played, but I've glanced over the rules. That's the days of Race and Class being the same thing.

Not that D&D's ever really been designed with role playing in mind, but that edition would have been around the time the notion of role playing was being codified. Could be that people are more accustomed to having a wider variety of roleplaying options (Whadayamean, I can't be a Dwarven Wizard... why not?)

On the one hand, I keep approaching it from the viewpoint of someone wanting to design a specific concept and keep it going throughout a story, possibly forcing the DM to adapt to things I want to do.... so let me look at it from the other way by asking a question :

What are you having your players do? What's the campaign about?
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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby bigglesworth » Fri Feb 18, 2011 2:51 pm UTC

There's some unknowns here:

Do the people you're running it for want to campaign on something else? Some people just don't want to commit to something big.

Are you just dungeon-bashing? I'd get bored with that personally, but have no problem with a game where characters are killed every other game.
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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby Zalzidrax » Fri Feb 18, 2011 9:24 pm UTC

A 1st level party has as much chance of surviving an encounter with a dragon as an ant has at surviving an encounter with a human.

In other words, pretty darn likely.

Unless you're playing a game where the sole purpose of the entire world is to kill the players, a dragon's going to have it's own business. Why even bother to notice a couple inconsequential vermin? I mean red dragons are kind of assholes, but if you, say, hid under a rock when you say something large flying in the distance rather than making yourself a target of opportunity, then the worst you get is maybe having to escape a small brushfire if the dragon is feeling sadistic and even bothers to notice the party.

Or maybe if you're good at thinking on the fly, you encounter a red dragon in human form, intent on bringing about war and destruction to the kingdom, and a few gold hungry people with more brains than brawn could help that situation along...

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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby McCaber » Fri Feb 18, 2011 9:31 pm UTC

Zalzidrax wrote:a few gold hungry people with more brains than brawn


That's ... not most of my PCs.
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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby Vaniver » Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:29 pm UTC

SecondTalon wrote:If the 4th level party goes after the dragon taking a cut from the Major City's profits, they deserve the TPK for being fucking stupid.
Again, this is clear from your perspective, and I make no comment on whether or not games should be run this way, but I strongly recommend ensuring your party has the same perception of risks that you do through a method other than teaching them through punishment.

Age of Fable wrote:And, once again, none of this is either helping or answering the question (or based on the rules set I'm using).
You've gotten two answers: first, people like crafting their characters rather than being handed them (by you or by the dice), and second, communication between DMs and players is difficult. They don't need to be used to the opposite to misunderstand you.
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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby BlackSails » Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:35 pm UTC

Zalzidrax wrote:A 1st level party has as much chance of surviving an encounter with a dragon as an ant has at surviving an encounter with a human.

In other words, pretty darn likely.

Unless you're playing a game where the sole purpose of the entire world is to kill the players, a dragon's going to have it's own business. Why even bother to notice a couple inconsequential vermin? I mean red dragons are kind of assholes, but if you, say, hid under a rock when you say something large flying in the distance rather than making yourself a target of opportunity, then the worst you get is maybe having to escape a small brushfire if the dragon is feeling sadistic and even bothers to notice the party.



Because in this world, those inconsequential vemin could actually be high level wizards with the power to tear holes in reality, or creates from hell itself in human shape. Its stupid to ignore a potential threat, and most dragons have intelligence and wisdom far beyond any human being ever.

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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby Menacing Spike » Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:02 pm UTC

BlackSails wrote:
Zalzidrax wrote:A 1st level party has as much chance of surviving an encounter with a dragon as an ant has at surviving an encounter with a human.

In other words, pretty darn likely.

Unless you're playing a game where the sole purpose of the entire world is to kill the players, a dragon's going to have it's own business. Why even bother to notice a couple inconsequential vermin? I mean red dragons are kind of assholes, but if you, say, hid under a rock when you say something large flying in the distance rather than making yourself a target of opportunity, then the worst you get is maybe having to escape a small brushfire if the dragon is feeling sadistic and even bothers to notice the party.



Because in this world, those inconsequential vemin could actually be high level wizards with the power to tear holes in reality, or creates from hell itself in human shape. Its stupid to ignore a potential threat, and most dragons have intelligence and wisdom far beyond any human being ever.


If an ant could potentially kill me with it's mind, I would stay way clear, but hey.

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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby Xeio » Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:17 am UTC

Menacing Spike wrote:If an ant could potentially kill me with it's mind, I would stay way clear, but hey.
Dragons are also (generally) greedy, and highly territorial. You don't trespass on a dragon's turf if you don't want to be roasted to a crisp (or melted, or frozen, or whatever the color of the dragon you happen to be fighting's powers are'd). It won't just ignore you because you're first level, and it might if it thinks you're a high level (though probably not if you're threatening it's hoard).

Granted, there are also dragons that are relatively nice (albeit rarer), but it's much more a situational thing, and they still generally don't like random people wandering into their lairs to say hello.

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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby Menacing Spike » Sat Feb 19, 2011 8:52 am UTC

Xeio wrote:
Menacing Spike wrote:If an ant could potentially kill me with it's mind, I would stay way clear, but hey.
Dragons are also (generally) greedy, and highly territorial. You don't trespass on a dragon's turf if you don't want to be roasted to a crisp (or melted, or frozen, or whatever the color of the dragon you happen to be fighting's powers are'd). It won't just ignore you because you're first level, and it might if it thinks you're a high level (though probably not if you're threatening it's hoard).

Granted, there are also dragons that are relatively nice (albeit rarer), but it's much more a situational thing, and they still generally don't like random people wandering into their lairs to say hello.


I was talking about the random encounter dragon! The party walking into the lair without precautions is fucking stupid and deserves to die, for the reasons you outlined.

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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby Chen » Mon Feb 21, 2011 12:57 pm UTC

BlackSails wrote:Because in this world, those inconsequential vemin could actually be high level wizards with the power to tear holes in reality, or creates from hell itself in human shape. Its stupid to ignore a potential threat, and most dragons have intelligence and wisdom far beyond any human being ever.


Well most of the powerful wizards probably aren't walking anywhere for one thing.

A group of adventurer's walking/riding through the wilderness is actually a GREAT target for an older dragon. They probably aren't high enough level to teleport which means they are either really low level and no threat at all, or are medium level and a minor threat, but with the high possibility of magic and gold to add to its hoard. Unless high level characters normally wander the wildernesses of said world I'd imagine a logical dragon would attack small groups of people if it was a greedy bastard (which many of the chromatic ones are).

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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby Menacing Spike » Mon Feb 21, 2011 1:35 pm UTC

Chen wrote:A group of adventurer's walking/riding through the wilderness is actually a GREAT target for an older dragon. They probably aren't high enough level to teleport which means they are either really low level and no threat at all, or are medium level and a minor threat, but with the high possibility of magic and gold to add to its hoard. Unless high level characters normally wander the wildernesses of said world I'd imagine a logical dragon would attack small groups of people if it was a greedy bastard (which many of the chromatic ones are).


But... but they could be munchkins, abominations created when dozens of PrCs are stuffed and twisted onto the shape of a man, and fire empowered split twin rays of enfeeblement until it becomes a sobbing, crumpled mass. Would you take this risk?

@below: For a monster, clearly, no. Unless you have a friend to ressurect you and you can make more than the cost between each death.
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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby Goldstein » Mon Feb 21, 2011 2:14 pm UTC

Are you trying to claim that roaming around killing indiscriminantly doesn't pay in the D&D world?
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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby Yakk » Tue Feb 22, 2011 8:33 pm UTC

Chen wrote:
BlackSails wrote:Because in this world, those inconsequential vemin could actually be high level wizards with the power to tear holes in reality, or creates from hell itself in human shape. Its stupid to ignore a potential threat, and most dragons have intelligence and wisdom far beyond any human being ever.
Well most of the powerful wizards probably aren't walking anywhere for one thing.

A group of adventurer's walking/riding through the wilderness is actually a GREAT target for an older dragon. They probably aren't high enough level to teleport which means they are either really low level and no threat at all, or are medium level and a minor threat, but with the high possibility of magic and gold to add to its hoard. Unless high level characters normally wander the wildernesses of said world I'd imagine a logical dragon would attack small groups of people if it was a greedy bastard (which many of the chromatic ones are).
This presumes "MMO" style worlds, where a PC-type-group is "typical" and "common".
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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby Chen » Tue Feb 22, 2011 9:07 pm UTC

Yakk wrote:This presumes "MMO" style worlds, where a PC-type-group is "typical" and "common".


Not really. If its a "realistic" world with few adventurers, the dragon gets a quick snack for practically no effort, if its a regular commoner group or a windfall if its a lower level adventuring group (in terms of their treasure). The only risk is the higher level adventuring group and my point was that those that would be a threat to the dragon rarely travel by horse/foot anyways.

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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby Yakk » Tue Feb 22, 2011 9:13 pm UTC

There is the ant problem. Why bother eating the humans?

I suppose eating small groups of humans can be enough to discourage more of them moving in. But it could also provoke large groups of humans (who may be enough to threaten the dragon). (if large groups of humans aren't enough to threaten the dragon, and small groups of humans are interesting enough to bother eating, why not eat a city?)
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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby EmptySet » Tue Feb 22, 2011 11:27 pm UTC

Yakk wrote:There is the ant problem. Why bother eating the humans?


Because they're delicious! And nutritious! Also, they have free gold, and you know what dragons are like with that. It's like popcorn walking into your house and offering you $5 if you eat it, when you have a crippling compulsion to collect $5 notes.

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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby hendusoone » Wed Feb 23, 2011 12:52 am UTC

Eh, maybe the dragon's on its way back from raiding a castle, its belly already full of delicious soldiers and nobles, carrying as much gold as its encumbrance allows?

I mean, were I the dragon, I'd be wanting a nap and just keep on flying.
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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby Menacing Spike » Wed Feb 23, 2011 7:26 am UTC

hendusoone wrote:Eh, maybe the dragon's on its way back from raiding a castle, its belly already full of delicious soldiers and nobles, carrying as much gold as its encumbrance allows?

I mean, were I the dragon, I'd be wanting a nap and just keep on flying.


But what if you are a crack addict and they carry your delicious drugs?

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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby Chen » Wed Feb 23, 2011 12:32 pm UTC

Don't forget that a lot of the chromatic dragons are cruel and evil too. The joy of killing an eating humanoids might play a role as well.

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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby Glmclain » Sat Mar 05, 2011 8:15 pm UTC

So guys, listen the fuck up. I am playing a Dwarf Fortress D&D Campaign. I goddamn repeat. A Dwarf Fortress D&D Campaign. Holy fucking shitballs, it's a sandbox, we got dragons out the ass, there are Balrog pits, there are Goblin Sieges, there's base building, it's fucking Dwarf Fortress. In Dungeons and Dragons. Fuck.
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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby Menacing Spike » Sat Mar 05, 2011 8:19 pm UTC

Glmclain wrote:So guys, listen the fuck up. I am playing a Dwarf Fortress D&D Campaign. I goddamn repeat. A Dwarf Fortress D&D Campaign. Holy fucking shitballs, it's a sandbox, we got dragons out the ass, there are Balrog pits, there are Goblin Sieges, there's base building, it's fucking Dwarf Fortress. In Dungeons and Dragons. Fuck.


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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby EmptySet » Sat Mar 05, 2011 11:42 pm UTC

Volunteer to keep track of the party's inventory and then keep records at the highest level of precision. You'll be superdwarvenly tough in no time.

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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby BoomFrog » Tue Mar 15, 2011 1:39 am UTC

So I'm getting kinda tired of D&D and want to try a different system. Our group only has about 4 hours to play (including eating dinner time) so I'd like something that handles fighting a lot faster so we can have a reasonable amount of time for other things. I'd be DMing (GMing I guess actually...) and we'd probably start with a one shot and then keep playing if we liked it. The things I'm considering:

1) Parinoia
2) Call of Cathulu
3) Shadowrun setting but using FUDGE dice rules, especially glossing over a lot of the matrix and astral projection details.

I've never played any of these systems (except a little shadowrun a long time ago). Anyone have any recommendations or comments on these games?
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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby Levi » Tue Mar 15, 2011 2:25 am UTC

Paranoia sounds hella fun. I've been trying to convince my group to play it after we finish our current campaign.

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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby bigglesworth » Tue Mar 15, 2011 2:26 am UTC

It's fun but I definitely wouldn't want to play it as a game of more than two or three sessions.
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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby Ixtellor » Thu Mar 17, 2011 4:12 pm UTC

I was going back through the whole neverwinter nights series as a fighter.

quick question: Is it worth becoming a weaponmaster, or better to stay straight fighter?
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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby Chen » Thu Mar 17, 2011 4:23 pm UTC

Ixtellor wrote:I was going back through the whole neverwinter nights series as a fighter.

quick question: Is it worth becoming a weaponmaster, or better to stay straight fighter?


I think weapon master was almost strictly better than regular fighter. There aren't enough feats to take in NWN and extra feats are the only benefit a fighter has over a weapon master. If I recall you only take weapon master up to level 6 or 7 though; you stop when the only extra things you get at higher levels are more uses of Ki strike.

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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby Ixtellor » Thu Mar 17, 2011 4:45 pm UTC

Chen wrote:
Ixtellor wrote:I was going back through the whole neverwinter nights series as a fighter.

quick question: Is it worth becoming a weaponmaster, or better to stay straight fighter?


I think weapon master was almost strictly better than regular fighter. There aren't enough feats to take in NWN and extra feats are the only benefit a fighter has over a weapon master. If I recall you only take weapon master up to level 6 or 7 though; you stop when the only extra things you get at higher levels are more uses of Ki strike.


Sounds good.
Although there are skills like epic str, epic hitpoints, etc that you can take 10 times each. I imagine there are more than enough feats to make the fighter extras worth it.

The extra X1 crit looks good on weaponmaster though. Not sure if its worth 20% extra exp for my whole career though.
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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby Chen » Thu Mar 17, 2011 5:11 pm UTC

Ixtellor wrote:
Sounds good.
Although there are skills like epic str, epic hitpoints, etc that you can take 10 times each. I imagine there are more than enough feats to make the fighter extras worth it.


I don't think you get Epic feats with a fighter that much faster than any other class. Unless its changed in NWN, the bonus feats fighters get level 1-20 cannot be used on Epic feats, regardless of your character level.

The extra X1 crit looks good on weaponmaster though. Not sure if its worth 20% extra exp for my whole career though.


Where'd the extra XP come from? Prestige Classes don't count towards multiclass penalties which is the only thing I can think of that would give an exp penalty in D&D.

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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby Menacing Spike » Thu Mar 17, 2011 5:33 pm UTC

Speaking of NWN2, the warlock has unlimited cold, spiked tentacles that paralyze, deal a large amount of damage in a area, stay for a long time and can be stacked at the same place.

Better get 10 cold and blunt DR on your tank though, or he'll get instantgibbed if he goes into the tentacle mass.

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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby Levi » Thu Mar 17, 2011 8:55 pm UTC

Invisibility spell + berserk dragon + city = fun

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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby Antimony-120 » Sun Mar 20, 2011 6:41 pm UTC

A discussion came up of traps in IRC some time ago. I'd personally like to mention one of my all time old favourites.

Put a pressure trap somewhere near the entrance to your dungeon. It should take enough pressure that the party won't trip it on their way in. The DC to spot it should be moderate, the DC to disarm it should be very, very high. But it's easily avoidable if you just walk on the edges of the hall way. For more fun, if they do spot it you can act like they got a really high roll and even inform them that there's a pressure trap, (roll again, it won't affect anything, bu for apperances sake), but it looks like the springs are broken, it'd take way more than the weight of the party to set it off.

The rest of the dungeon proceeds as normal. At the location of the main loot stash put in some warning (preferably poetic) about greed and losing what you already had. Allow the players to loot as they will. Make sure there is a least one item that is very valuble, but very heavy. Put the inscription ON THIS OBJECT if at all possible.

(note if the party is in the habit of using magic to leave dungeons, placement of the trap may have to be shifted to far enough into the dungeon, or place an exit route that is easy, and takes them to the entrance, just before the trap)

On the way out the party should be carrying the object because, since when did players leave loot behind? Give the party their rolls to detect the trap (try to DC it so they have a fighting chance to see it, their rolls are lowered by 2 if they didn't see it on the way in, and raised by 2 if they did. If the PLAYERS remember the trap is there, they automatically detect it).

If they walk across the trap, it splashes the entire party in what I usually call "the effluence of creation of the philosophers stone", which is a substance that has the exact opposite effect. Namely, it turns anything gold it touches into lead. Add in other effects (Depowers all magic items, corrodes armour, silver to pewter, etc.) to taste. Enjoy the wails as the players find all their loot turned to some very useless (and mildly toxic) lead.

For those with players that might think of such things, you can hide it a little more. For example you could have it be set to go off on "detect evil" for a good party (or vice-versa), and have the item have some sort of evil alignment on it. Or you could hide the trigger inside the item. You could put the inscription on the wall and ignore the item. You could put the trap UNDER all the loot, and have it go off when pressure is removed (aka the Indiana Jones trap).

Just remember, if the players aren't terrified of your scheming, you're not doing your job as a DM.
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Re: Dungeons and Dragons (and other tabletop RPGs)

Postby El Spark » Sun Mar 20, 2011 9:17 pm UTC

You're an evil mastermind from hell, and I salute you by stealing your idea and making it my own.

/hands over a cookie.
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