Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby Jesse » Mon Sep 27, 2010 5:26 pm UTC

psion wrote:I just watched your tournament games, Jesse, and I found something that really hurts your economy. Your orbital command is always late. Always always always build it immediatley after your first barracks finishes. Next, always use at least your first two orbital spells on mules (you would opt for scan). Those two things are actually pretty huge, and if you fix them then I guarantee that you'll immediately feel a difference in how much more you're able to accomplish in the early game.


Cheers. I was always wondering how to work Orbital Command. Apart from that, my econ is miles ahead what it was in that tournament round, if I find a good game I'll upload a replay later.

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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby BlackSails » Mon Sep 27, 2010 5:32 pm UTC

Its not a super early gas. If you look at the build order on the TL website, you get the 2nd gas after your cybercore, at 19 probes. It could also be a lead into 1-base colossus, or high templar.

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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby Robstickle » Mon Sep 27, 2010 6:42 pm UTC

You, sir, name? wrote:This is very similar to TvT when you scout an early double gas, a single barracks and a single factory. It doesn't matter if you've cleverly hidden your starport in some obscure part of the map, I know you're building banshees, and plenty of marines and turrets will greet them when they show up.


I'm confused about your timings. How are you scouting them at the point when they have a factory up but quick enough for a second gas to be seen as fast? A scouting scv would just get killed by the 2 marines which should be there, a scan would be a mule wasted, a hellion would not get there quick enough for the double gas to be seen as weird. As a matter of fact if you scout a factory+double gas what makes you so sure they're not just planning to tank/viking you? I know that build is super gas heavy.
Last edited by Robstickle on Mon Sep 27, 2010 6:48 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby mutestorm » Mon Sep 27, 2010 6:47 pm UTC

psion wrote:We're straying far from my main point, but I'm saying that it doesn't matter that protoss and terran don't have the same production capability of zerg. In your example, just get an armory and a thor and you're fine against a first round of muta. There's really no reason not to. It doesn't matter that you can only get one thor or one colossus or one VR, because a zerg has to make a unit that counters it just to remain cost efficient and not get steamrolled, and that demands the entirety of zerg's advantage in their ability to tech switch. A zerg can't actually tech switch back and forth in a way that forces the other races to continually react; a zerg has to tech switch in order to stay alive. I mean, if the multiple production advantage was so powerful then I don't think zerg would be widely regarded as underpowered.

I'm not surprised that a lot of people don't understand zerg, and that's why I'm discussing it. It's complicated and interests me, and it has a lot of misconceptions from people who don't play it at a high level. I just sometimes wish it didn't suck.


It's really not so utterly simple as 'just get an armory and a thor,' just like you wouldnt simply make every tech building in your arsenal. dropping an armory and getting a thor is expensive and bad against all other forms of the zerg army. dropping an armory in RESPONSE to an expected muta attack is expensive and takes 5x as long as it would take you to build 5 mutas. Anyway, z balances out in that youre restricted to the number of things you can make per hatchery if larva are exhausted; this is the tradeoff. this is why it's not an all around advantage, just a different style of play for that particular race.

Robstickle wrote:
You, sir, name? wrote:This is very similar to TvT when you scout an early double gas, a single barracks and a single factory. It doesn't matter if you've cleverly hidden your starport in some obscure part of the map, I know you're building banshees, and plenty of marines and turrets will greet them when they show up.


I'm confused about your timings. How are you scouting them at the point when they have a factory up but quick enough for a second gas to be seen as fast? A scouting scv would just get killed by the 2 marines which should be there, a scan would be a mule wasted, a hellion would not get there quick enough for the double gas to be seen as weird. As a matter of fact if you scout a factory+double gas what makes you so sure they're not just planning to tank/viking you? I know that build is super gas heavy.


A lot of scanning goes on in tvt because of the lack of scouting ability. Besides, if hes going banshees he wont HAVE any tanks. Tanks are expensive that early, and theyd start building them well before they start making vikings.
Last edited by mutestorm on Mon Sep 27, 2010 7:41 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby Dasboard » Mon Sep 27, 2010 7:36 pm UTC

http://screplays.com/replays/dasboard/10051

A match me and Jesse played against some random guys. Our 4th placement match in 2vs2. We thought it was a rpetty cool game. ( Even though I was doing crap on several levels )

Enjoy. ( Or watch and crawl in frustration and suffering because of bad play )
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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby BlackSails » Mon Sep 27, 2010 8:25 pm UTC

mutestorm wrote:It's really not so utterly simple as 'just get an armory and a thor,' just like you wouldnt simply make every tech building in your arsenal. dropping an armory and getting a thor is expensive and bad against all other forms of the zerg army.


Are we talking about the same thors? Thors/hellion is great against everything zerg has before hive tech.

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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby You, sir, name? » Mon Sep 27, 2010 8:27 pm UTC

Robstickle wrote:
You, sir, name? wrote:This is very similar to TvT when you scout an early double gas, a single barracks and a single factory. It doesn't matter if you've cleverly hidden your starport in some obscure part of the map, I know you're building banshees, and plenty of marines and turrets will greet them when they show up.


I'm confused about your timings. How are you scouting them at the point when they have a factory up but quick enough for a second gas to be seen as fast? A scouting scv would just get killed by the 2 marines which should be there, a scan would be a mule wasted, a hellion would not get there quick enough for the double gas to be seen as weird. As a matter of fact if you scout a factory+double gas what makes you so sure they're not just planning to tank/viking you? I know that build is super gas heavy.


Well, there are three elements to early game scouting:
  1. Your 10-supply SCV (this is what checks for refineries).
  2. A sacrifical marine to see what's guarding their choke (small army in bunkers = something suspicious is going on, probably banshees). This should happen near the time when you...
  3. Spend your second OC energy on a scan which covers the middle of their base to scout what your marine didn't see.

Here is how I would draw conclusions from what I saw:
Early Double Gas + Rax + Factory + Techlabbed Starport = Banshees
Early Double Gas + Rax + Factory + Suspiciously small army = Banshees with hidden starport
Early Double Gas + An Armory = Thorships
Early Double Gas + Rax + Techlabbed Factory + Plain Starport + Suspiciously small army = Thorships with hidden armory
Last edited by You, sir, name? on Mon Sep 27, 2010 8:36 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby BlackSails » Mon Sep 27, 2010 8:32 pm UTC

While yeah, tanks will probably be at the choke, you cant assume the entire army will be there. HuK in particular is very good about spreading his army out everywhere, so he has lots of vision, you cant scan his army, and its hard to do sneaky things.

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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby You, sir, name? » Mon Sep 27, 2010 8:41 pm UTC

BlackSails wrote:While yeah, tanks will probably be at the choke, you cant assume the entire army will be there. HuK in particular is very good about spreading his army out everywhere, so he has lots of vision, you cant scan his army, and its hard to do sneaky things.


Analyzing scouting information is never a perfect science. For all you know, they could be building half their main in some other location. Even though it can be a ruse, you do have to work with what you've got.
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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby Spambot5546 » Mon Sep 27, 2010 8:48 pm UTC

You, sir, name? wrote:
BlackSails wrote:While yeah, tanks will probably be at the choke, you cant assume the entire army will be there. HuK in particular is very good about spreading his army out everywhere, so he has lots of vision, you cant scan his army, and its hard to do sneaky things.


Analyzing scouting information is never a perfect science. For all you know, they could be building half their main in some other location. Even though it can be a ruse, you do have to work with what you've got.

I saw a video once where the guy put his SCVs in his command center and then lifted off to a mineral site that is walled off. It put him a bit behind but allowed him to build without having to worry about early rushes.
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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby You, sir, name? » Mon Sep 27, 2010 9:30 pm UTC

Spambot5546 wrote:
You, sir, name? wrote:
BlackSails wrote:While yeah, tanks will probably be at the choke, you cant assume the entire army will be there. HuK in particular is very good about spreading his army out everywhere, so he has lots of vision, you cant scan his army, and its hard to do sneaky things.


Analyzing scouting information is never a perfect science. For all you know, they could be building half their main in some other location. Even though it can be a ruse, you do have to work with what you've got.

I saw a video once where the guy put his SCVs in his command center and then lifted off to a mineral site that is walled off. It put him a bit behind but allowed him to build without having to worry about early rushes.


Those mineral sites have fewer mineral spots, though, and therefore obviously put you at an eco-disadvantage. I've done it once when I botched defending from a 6pool, and I actually ended up winning the. But then, it was pretty close, and I mostly won because he assumed he was going to win and didn't expand as aggressively as he should have, so I managed to catch up and eventually win.
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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby mutestorm » Mon Sep 27, 2010 9:56 pm UTC

BlackSails wrote:
mutestorm wrote:It's really not so utterly simple as 'just get an armory and a thor,' just like you wouldnt simply make every tech building in your arsenal. dropping an armory and getting a thor is expensive and bad against all other forms of the zerg army.


Are we talking about the same thors? Thors/hellion is great against everything zerg has before hive tech.

thors are very easily surrounded once the hellion buffer is taken out by roaches. Even then their ground support is too slow for large supply size of a zerg army, at least in the scenario i provided. They have a high damage output, so they're obviously a good roach counter, but really are susceptible to the aforementioned surround. Thors are mainly used as a muta counter.

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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby psion » Mon Sep 27, 2010 10:18 pm UTC

mutestorm wrote:It's really not so utterly simple as 'just get an armory and a thor,' just like you wouldnt simply make every tech building in your arsenal. dropping an armory and getting a thor is expensive and bad against all other forms of the zerg army. dropping an armory in RESPONSE to an expected muta attack is expensive and takes 5x as long as it would take you to build 5 mutas. Anyway, z balances out in that youre restricted to the number of things you can make per hatchery if larva are exhausted; this is the tradeoff. this is why it's not an all around advantage, just a different style of play for that particular race.

thors are very easily surrounded once the hellion buffer is taken out by roaches. Even then their ground support is too slow for large supply size of a zerg army, at least in the scenario i provided. They have a high damage output, so they're obviously a good roach counter, but really are susceptible to the aforementioned surround. Thors are mainly used as a muta counter.

I'm not sure that I could disagree more. Every single thing that you said is wrong in some form. I don't know where to begin or if I should even bother.

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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby Jesse » Mon Sep 27, 2010 10:37 pm UTC

Dasboard wrote:http://screplays.com/replays/dasboard/10051

A match me and Jesse played against some random guys. Our 4th placement match in 2vs2. We thought it was a rpetty cool game. ( Even though I was doing crap on several levels )

Enjoy. ( Or watch and crawl in frustration and suffering because of bad play )


Oh god, we are so bad. At least I'm slowly figuring out that when my minerals are high, I can totally build more than 2rax,1factory,1port. Once I really get my skull around that so I'm always producing units and always keeping those minerals low, then I think I'll shoot out of bronze. I think I may have to turn the graphics down though, since big battles just chop terribly to the poitn I can't do any micro at all.

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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby rigwarl » Tue Sep 28, 2010 12:03 am UTC

Yea you'll see the pros do 2/1/1 or something if they're only on 1 base, but that's because they're good enough to constantly produce units. At lower levels I would definitely suggest getting extra production facilities to make up for not having 200 APM.

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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby mutestorm » Tue Sep 28, 2010 12:05 am UTC

psion wrote:I'm not sure that I could disagree more. Every single thing that you said is wrong in some form. I don't know where to begin or if I should even bother.

Okay, so after trying this out i rescind my comment. But I'll leave it up for reference. In my early times of sc2 I was turned off by thors because they got owned by lings, and i rarely used them in my mix after that.

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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby Xanthir » Tue Sep 28, 2010 1:14 am UTC

mutestorm wrote:
psion wrote:I'm not sure that I could disagree more. Every single thing that you said is wrong in some form. I don't know where to begin or if I should even bother.

Okay, so after trying this out i rescind my comment. But I'll leave it up for reference. In my early times of sc2 I was turned off by thors because they got owned by lings, and i rarely used them in my mix after that.

Yeah, thors are specifically bad against lings because of the overkill dropping their DPS through the floor. That's not a general weakness of thor against zerg, though.
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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby BlackSails » Tue Sep 28, 2010 5:00 am UTC

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/8615 ... pes-of-war

A really bizzare game - the enemy did two perpetual gas steals on me, so I went 2 gate zealots and killed him.

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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby Delbin » Tue Sep 28, 2010 7:27 am UTC

psion wrote:There's no way you could even afford two or three simultaneous productions of T2 on one base. Much like there's no way I could afford a sizable hydra army on two bases. But if you have even a single colossi then I can't engage your army with my hydra without doubling your army size. Another example: if you get one VR then I can be in trouble, but if I get two muta then I might tickle you a little. So, I don't really understand your point, unless it's just "zerg is different from protoss".
It seemed your original point was that players need to be ready for everything. I've been trying to illustrate that protoss just doesn't have that capacity and has to rely on gateway units to handle most things. Also, if someone goes DT, they have the base structures ready to transition easily into other strategies, so it's not a stupid thing to do, especially in 4v4.

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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby Dasboard » Tue Sep 28, 2010 8:01 am UTC

Jesse wrote:
Dasboard wrote:http://screplays.com/replays/dasboard/10051

A match me and Jesse played against some random guys. Our 4th placement match in 2vs2. We thought it was a rpetty cool game. ( Even though I was doing crap on several levels )

Enjoy. ( Or watch and crawl in frustration and suffering because of bad play )


Oh god, we are so bad. At least I'm slowly figuring out that when my minerals are high, I can totally build more than 2rax,1factory,1port. Once I really get my skull around that so I'm always producing units and always keeping those minerals low, then I think I'll shoot out of bronze. I think I may have to turn the graphics down though, since big battles just chop terribly to the poitn I can't do any micro at all.


Hahaha, that's when I thought watching the replay. We could've had those guys most of the game. If we only scouted more we would've known that. We also had huge amounts of minerals unused. And well, at that battle with the Mothership my screen just froze until most units were dead. Also, our teamwork is horrible. :D
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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby Swivelguy » Tue Sep 28, 2010 8:55 pm UTC

I have a question about how to combat specific cheese.

I'm in gold league, playing Terran 99% of the time, and usually build 10 depot, 12 rax, 13 gas. I walloff against toss, zerg, or random.

Against toss, and sometimes against zerg, the opponent's scouting worker will arrive around when I start my rax, and will attack the SCV building the rax. If I do nothing about this, their worker kills mine, the rax doesn't finish, and my build order is screwed. If I pull my worker off of the barracks, my build order is screwed. What's the right response here?

I seem to do best if I immediately pull the building SCV and have him attack the invading worker while simultaneously bringing a new SCV from the mineral line to resume construction. I usually lose this worker battle, because they get a few free hits in before I realize they're doing it, but I can finish off their worker with the second builder SCV or with my first marine. Is there a less disruptive counter?
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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby Spambot5546 » Tue Sep 28, 2010 8:58 pm UTC

Pull the worker off and send him away while bringing in another to resume construction. They'll follow the first worker and you can just lead the invader around or bring in a second SCV to kill it. Puts your build order out of whack by maybe 10 seconds.
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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby mike-l » Tue Sep 28, 2010 9:01 pm UTC

Swivelguy wrote:I have a question about how to combat specific cheese.

I'm in gold league, playing Terran 99% of the time, and usually build 10 depot, 12 rax, 13 gas. I walloff against toss, zerg, or random.

Against toss, and sometimes against zerg, the opponent's scouting worker will arrive around when I start my rax, and will attack the SCV building the rax. If I do nothing about this, their worker kills mine, the rax doesn't finish, and my build order is screwed. If I pull my worker off of the barracks, my build order is screwed. What's the right response here?

I seem to do best if I immediately pull the building SCV and have him attack the invading worker while simultaneously bringing a new SCV from the mineral line to resume construction. I usually lose this worker battle, because they get a few free hits in before I realize they're doing it, but I can finish off their worker with the second builder SCV or with my first marine. Is there a less disruptive counter?


I tend to pull one SCV from my line as soon as an enemy worker enters my base and have him chase him around until he leaves/my marine comes out and kills it. If he still attacks your SCV that's building, you'll pull ahead when your scv moves through the building it's working on. I suppose you could also repair your building SCV, but I've never found this necessary as usually as soon as I start attacking his he starts running around the base and leaves my builder alone.
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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby Ixtellor » Tue Sep 28, 2010 10:02 pm UTC

I finally made 4v4 random platinum.
I should hit #1 tonight, I just need 2 wins.

I have noticed that the quality of teamates has actually been worse though since I got promoted from Gold.

I am no longer surprised when at least 1 person in the game is beyond terrible and has no clue how to play SC.
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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby Jesse » Tue Sep 28, 2010 10:09 pm UTC

I won two more 1v1's in a row, although slightly less victory since they were both Terran, which is my easiest matchup, but still, I'm learning when to expand, still not quick enough on those unit-producing structures, so I'm sitting around with 1'000 minerals at times simply because I'm building stuff at every structure already. Getting better with my unit grouping too and am generally just feeling good about my play at the moment.

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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby BlackSails » Tue Sep 28, 2010 10:17 pm UTC

If you have extra money, throw down some more rax, or another cc, or some more bunkers/turrets.

Its not ideal, (Ideal would be to not run up extra money to begin with) but if you already have that build up, then try to get rid of it.

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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby Jesse » Wed Sep 29, 2010 12:50 am UTC

BlackSails wrote:If you have extra money, throw down some more rax, or another cc, or some more bunkers/turrets.

Its not ideal, (Ideal would be to not run up extra money to begin with) but if you already have that build up, then try to get rid of it.


Yeah, that's my plan, just to pay more attention to what my minerals are doing. Because really I'm still just doing 2 rax, one factory, two starport base play, even when I'm onto ym fourth expansion when I could easily support eight rax and another factory. Also means that when I have a large battle in the middle of the map that I can rebuild my army so quickly because of the large amount of unit producing structures.

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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby Avin » Wed Sep 29, 2010 2:39 pm UTC

I was playing around with a few things yesterday for fun.

  • Units that are on a timer (broodlings, infested terrans, changelings, mules, and hallucinations) cannot enter a Nydus Worm, nor be loaded into a transport. They CAN however all be neural parasited. So if you ever see an immortal exit a nydus canal, you can be sure it's not a hallucinated immortal :p
  • Uprooted spore or spine crawlers can neither enter a nydus canal, be transported, or be neural parasited.
  • A phoenix that is lifting a unit is invulnerable to neural parasite.
  • Interceptors don't seem to be able to be selected or targeted (I spent quite some time trying to neural parasite one. I only afterward watched this week's Funday Monday where Day9 made the same observation.)
  • If you neural parasite an infestor that has neural parasite researched, you may still only target enemy units with it, not your own. You can "chain" neural parasites if there are multiple enemy infestors in range.
  • You know how Thors are visible below a medivac? If you put them in an overlord with Ventral Sacs they are not visible. Obviously this requires extreme neural parasite usage, but it would be fun to win a FFA game as zerg by dropping a bunch of Colossi from Medivacs. :p
  • If you rally point a Nydus to an overlord with Ventral Sacs that is directly overhead, and unload units from the Nydus, they will automatically enter the overlord without ever showing up on your screen. This even works with Colossi: you would think that something as big as a Colossi moving from deep underground into the air would cause some sort of visible indication of what just happened, but no.
  • If you neural parasite a mothership, the original owner of the mothership cannot build another mothership still. (So there's no workaround to getting more than one mothership at a time.)
  • If you neural parasite a graviton-ed enemy unit, it will cancel the graviton.
  • I had already heard of this one elsewhere, but if you neural parasite a probe and a warp prism, and order the probe to start warping in protoss buildings in the field of the warp prism, and the warp prism later leaves, those protoss buildings will be considered perpetually powered without being in in any psionic matrix.

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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby BlackSails » Wed Sep 29, 2010 3:22 pm UTC

If you neural parasite an egg, it dies.

If you have a ton of banelings, and neural parasite a mothership, then vortex protoss army and toss your banelings into the vortex, all the ground units will die.

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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby mike-l » Wed Sep 29, 2010 4:10 pm UTC

BlackSails wrote:If you have a ton of banelings, and neural parasite a mothership, then vortex protoss army and toss your banelings into the vortex, all the ground units will die.


Oh I SO want to do this!
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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby psion » Wed Sep 29, 2010 4:23 pm UTC

You can't NP a phoenix that is lifting a unit? That's odd.

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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby You, sir, name? » Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:15 pm UTC

Ravens are seriously underrated units. Mass raven borders on cheese, but adding like four ravens to an army can make it so much more scary. I just DESTROYED a zerg player by walling him into his main with auto-turrets while I attacked his natural.
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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby Spambot5546 » Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:28 pm UTC

Man, to get that much gas you might as well have built a gas refinery on Harry Knowles's ass.
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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby BlackSails » Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:46 pm UTC

You, sir, name? wrote:Ravens are seriously underrated units. Mass raven borders on cheese, but adding like four ravens to an army can make it so much more scary. I just DESTROYED a zerg player by walling him into his main with auto-turrets while I attacked his natural.


Did you see the most epic FFA ever on Husky's channel? The pros from team liquid did an FFA, and TLO won by mass ravens. (Although i think HuK would have won easily if he had added some phoenixes to his carrier fleet, since they can kill ravens really quickly and outrun seeker missiles)



Anyway, funday monday. Apparently, carrier rushing is a viable strategy. Not only did many regular people succeed, but HuK beat two of the best terran players with the funday monday demand of "No expanding until you have a carrier in production"

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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby You, sir, name? » Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:53 pm UTC

I've been experimenting with stuff to use instead of marines, marauders and tanks for Day9's monday challenge. Conclusion: Reapers in bunkers are good against banelings. Like, insanely scary half of them wither away before they even make it up the ramp good.

Also, unrelatedly, did you know marines can stim while inside a bunker? Kinda neat, in that crack house sort of a way.
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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby BlackSails » Wed Sep 29, 2010 7:15 pm UTC

Bunkered reapers are awesome early game defense. They kill zealots, marines, zerglings, banelings, even hellions.

I think the easiest way to satisfy the challenge is CauthonLuck's 11 starport -> banshee build against zerg. If they only make 1 queen, there goes their entire mineral line.

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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby mike-l » Wed Sep 29, 2010 7:29 pm UTC

You, sir, name? wrote:Ravens are seriously underrated units. Mass raven borders on cheese, but adding like four ravens to an army can make it so much more scary. I just DESTROYED a zerg player by walling him into his main with auto-turrets while I attacked his natural.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pdLjI0_ ... r_embedded
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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby cmd » Wed Sep 29, 2010 7:44 pm UTC

[quote="Swivelguy"]I have a question about how to combat specific cheese.[quote]

I chuckled at that, but I shouldn't have. I have issues dealing with it sometimes as well :shock:

Like others suggested, especially against Terran and Protoss you should generally pull an SCV off to kill it due to proxy concerns.

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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby You, sir, name? » Wed Sep 29, 2010 10:13 pm UTC

mike-l wrote:
You, sir, name? wrote:Ravens are seriously underrated units. Mass raven borders on cheese, but adding like four ravens to an army can make it so much more scary. I just DESTROYED a zerg player by walling him into his main with auto-turrets while I attacked his natural.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pdLjI0_ ... r_embedded


Seen it, and worse still, had that done to me. How I raged as my army died to auto-turrets! In retrospect, I should have gotten ghosts.
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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby |Erasmus| » Wed Sep 29, 2010 10:48 pm UTC

You, sir, name? wrote:Ravens are seriously underrated units. Mass raven borders on cheese, but adding like four ravens to an army can make it so much more scary. I just DESTROYED a zerg player by walling him into his main with auto-turrets while I attacked his natural.

Spam a couple of turrets on top of sieged tanks, too. Great way to make them kill each other with splash. (Yeah, my ravens were working overtime against that heavy tank/cloaked banshee force I was up against).


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