Starcraft 2 : The Dune II Clone

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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby You, sir, name? » Wed Sep 29, 2010 11:35 pm UTC

|Erasmus| wrote:
You, sir, name? wrote:Ravens are seriously underrated units. Mass raven borders on cheese, but adding like four ravens to an army can make it so much more scary. I just DESTROYED a zerg player by walling him into his main with auto-turrets while I attacked his natural.

Spam a couple of turrets on top of sieged tanks, too. Great way to make them kill each other with splash. (Yeah, my ravens were working overtime against that heavy tank/cloaked banshee force I was up against).


Can be done with MULEs as well.
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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby Xeio » Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:59 am UTC

Hrmmm, interesting build. He could have done way better with micro on the raves though, more PDDs, he let so many ravens die because he didn't use them very often or wandered out of their range.

Though "bob" should have gotten 1-2 counter ravens with HSM, that would have melted the raven ball (or ghosts for EMP). I'm not sure if I agree with HD that thors are the best option (I thought PDD hit thor shots too?)... though there aren't a lot of them, to be sure once they get that many ravens, he's definitely right though that the crucial moment was the secret expansion (in fact, 4 secret expansions, that's just a fail there from bob, you don't turtle when your enemy is turtling, you expand and out-macro). Though, I dunno, I'd probably have been super wtf if I was suddenly faced with an all raven build...

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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby psion » Thu Sep 30, 2010 4:35 am UTC

I just watched that. I wouldn't say the Ravens were even the issue. Yeah, EMP would have helped, but the main issue was the PFs. If PFs didn't require such a large amount of firepower to take out then he would have needed considerably less tanks, which would free gas to make stronger antiair. He could have sent 4 marines to each expansion and the Ravens would be too slow to defend, but as is, Pfs would easily kill them. So, I don't know, maybe even Marauders+Vikings would work. There's of course HSM, but magic box and stim micro could overcome it. The low gas cost of Marauders would allow a much higher army size with his economy, and splitting them up to hit multiple expansions could be devastating.

Ultras were nerfed, and I'm not the least bit surprised. I completely expected something like that to happen. I really need to switch races. I've got enough experience from playing a Shaman in WoW to not wait for a patch from Blizzard.

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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby rigwarl » Thu Sep 30, 2010 1:31 pm UTC

I recently switched races- well, not 100%, now I just play 2 and am working on the 3rd.

It's not as hard as it may seem, but you should do it in team games first. Also you can start with basic strategies such as mass barracks/gateways and then work your way up to using more advanced tactics.

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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby You, sir, name? » Thu Sep 30, 2010 4:49 pm UTC

psion wrote:So, I don't know, maybe even Marauders+Vikings would work. There's of course HSM, but magic box and stim micro could overcome it. The low gas cost of Marauders would allow a much higher army size with his economy, and splitting them up to hit multiple expansions could be devastating.


PDDs intercept both of their attacks... so, no. As PDDs take frickin' ages to expire, you can simply drop a bunch at your expansions and be safe from any such harassment.
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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby Chen » Thu Sep 30, 2010 5:16 pm UTC

You, sir, name? wrote:
psion wrote:So, I don't know, maybe even Marauders+Vikings would work. There's of course HSM, but magic box and stim micro could overcome it. The low gas cost of Marauders would allow a much higher army size with his economy, and splitting them up to hit multiple expansions could be devastating.


PDDs intercept both of their attacks... so, no. As PDDs take frickin' ages to expire, you can simply drop a bunch at your expansions and be safe from any such harassment.


A couple of ghosts along with vikings deal well with mass ravens. Even if they drop PDD if they don't have anymore energy they can't do anything threatening and you can just run the PDDs out of energy. Ravens do tend to clump up really well when they're in a big group so EMP is strong against them. In theory Thors too, but I find they're too slow to deal with them unless you have a HUGE number.

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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby psion » Thu Sep 30, 2010 5:50 pm UTC

PDDs are the least fearsome from mass ravens. It'll turn the tide of an army clash, but it won't defend an expansion by itself. The attack at 4 mins in part 2 could have been 25 marauders, so one PDD would defend less than one volley before it gets destroyed by a viking. Not very useful for 100 energy. HSM and autoturrets are scary, but marauders can always flee where thors and tanks can't. It then lends itself to medivac drops and army splits, just a lot more options than either mech or vikings I feel.

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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby You, sir, name? » Thu Sep 30, 2010 7:06 pm UTC

I just accidentally went mass raven in TvZ. My base was largely destroyed, but I escaped to an island expansion with a starport and two CCs. And so I started making ravens, as I had quite a bit of gas. The game was pretty close a couple of times, but in the end, I won. Mutalisks are ridiculously bad against ravens, as the zerg player soon learned. Mixing them with corruptors makes things quite scary though, as the mutas wear down PDDs in no time, and corruptors do A LOT of damage to ravens.

But still, I won. Go me!
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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby Dasboard » Fri Oct 01, 2010 3:29 pm UTC

This is ridiculous. I just got promroted to Silver. Here's what happened:

So I go 1vs1, I turn out to be Terran and the other guy is Zerg. I harras him a bit with hellion drops and stuff. Then I notice his Spire and start making some Vikings. Air harrasment follows. Turns out he managed to get more Mutas than I had Vikings. He comes to my base, I send my Command centre and stuff to a isle and when he finishes killing my main base he disconnects. You can see it coming from there. He doesn't come back, I win and on top of that I get promoted.

I didn't even want to be promoted. And not at all on such an unfair way. I'll be demoted soon enough I guess. ( After losing like 10 games in a row. '
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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby BlackSails » Fri Oct 01, 2010 3:38 pm UTC

Dasboard wrote:This is ridiculous. I just got promroted to Silver. Here's what happened:

So I go 1vs1, I turn out to be Terran and the other guy is Zerg. I harras him a bit with hellion drops and stuff. Then I notice his Spire and start making some Vikings. Air harrasment follows. Turns out he managed to get more Mutas than I had Vikings. He comes to my base, I send my Command centre and stuff to a isle and when he finishes killing my main base he disconnects. You can see it coming from there. He doesn't come back, I win and on top of that I get promoted.

I didn't even want to be promoted. And not at all on such an unfair way. I'll be demoted soon enough I guess. ( After losing like 10 games in a row. '


You dont get promoted become of any particular game. Also, once someone disconnects, they CANT rejoin.

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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby Dasboard » Fri Oct 01, 2010 3:53 pm UTC

It felt like it. I lost more than I won. Like 19 / 27. Aand.. I did not know that. Still, I don't think it's very fair way to win, or even promoted.
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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby mike-l » Fri Oct 01, 2010 4:03 pm UTC

So here's an interesting tidbit, and I don't think you should read anything at all into it.

But of the 62 matches in the GSL so far, there have been:

11 PvZ, Protoss has won 7 of them (64%)
13 TvZs, Terran has won 7 of them (54%)
23 TvPs, Terran has won 16 of them ((70%!!)
As well as 1 ZvZ, and 7 each of TvT and PvP.

So the 'least balanced' matchup has had the most balanced result, and the 'most balanced' has had the least. (As I said, you shouldn't read anything into it, sample size is tiny, there's heavy bias since this is a top end tournament, and lots of these games were not won because of the races played, eg IdrA's loss was because of some serious metagaming and had nothing at all to do with PvZ, and these heavily skew such a small sample size.)
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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby Robstickle » Fri Oct 01, 2010 4:20 pm UTC

Ye but one of those zergs is fruitseller.

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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby mike-l » Fri Oct 01, 2010 4:28 pm UTC

Robstickle wrote:Ye but one of those zergs is fruitseller.


Indeed :) I really hope he wins... I love watching him play. (He's also responsible for 50% of the wins of Zerg v Protoss :))
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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby Mo0man » Fri Oct 01, 2010 6:24 pm UTC

Dude is here to deal some Fruit. He crushes absolutely everything, it's beautiful.
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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby BlackSails » Fri Oct 01, 2010 6:58 pm UTC

mike-l wrote: IdrA's loss was because of some serious metagaming


Idra's loss was hilarious to me. Just the fact that his opponent planted a false build order because he knew Idra would practice against it....

He probably even just swapped accounts with someone, so he could practice his real build in secret, while the other guy used the colossus all in.

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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby mike-l » Fri Oct 01, 2010 7:08 pm UTC

BlackSails wrote:
mike-l wrote: IdrA's loss was because of some serious metagaming


Idra's loss was hilarious to me. Just the fact that his opponent planted a false build order because he knew Idra would practice against it....

He probably even just swapped accounts with someone, so he could practice his real build in secret, while the other guy used the colossus all in.


On the State of the Game 12 podcast idrA said that they had found each other's accounts and Lotze saw idrA preparing for his Colossus all in. I doubt it was planted, as that would require some huge counter-intel, but who knows what kind of crazy KGB stuff filters down to S. Korea :)
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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby Chen » Fri Oct 01, 2010 7:12 pm UTC

For someone who can't follow the GSL stuff from work, what exactly happened in this game idrA lost?

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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby BlackSails » Fri Oct 01, 2010 7:17 pm UTC

Chen wrote:For someone who can't follow the GSL stuff from work, what exactly happened in this game idrA lost?


Idra knew that Lotze, most of the time on Lost Temple vs zerg went for a 1-base colossus all in. Idra prepared accordingly, and had tons of roaches to stop the colossi. Then two void rays appeared, and he gged.

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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby Mo0man » Fri Oct 01, 2010 7:38 pm UTC

Well, when your opponent says, in an interview, that he's been watching your build orders and has been working to counter them, you damn well better change it
Edit: By the by, this is the greatest match I think I've seen. http://www.gomtv.net/2010gslopens1/vod/1144
Game two, I think was the best, but you have to pay for it to see it. Oh, and in case you didn't know, you have to create an account to watch it
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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby mike-l » Fri Oct 01, 2010 8:10 pm UTC

Mo0man wrote:Well, when your opponent says, in an interview, that he's been watching your build orders and has been working to counter them, you damn well better change it
Edit: By the by, this is the greatest match I think I've seen. http://www.gomtv.net/2010gslopens1/vod/1144
Game two, I think was the best, but you have to pay for it to see it. Oh, and in case you didn't know, you have to create an account to watch it


Did he tell anyone besides Artosis before the actual match?

Anyway, in game one he countered the expected build and it won. In game two, Lotze faked doing his collosus build, making the robo where idrA would scout it, but never produced anything from it. Instead he made a single pylon and starport in a hidden corner of the map, nowhere near his base. idrA had planned to go mass roach and upon scouting the robo went through with it. He then proceeded to lose the entire match when he failed to scout a 'hidden' expo on metalopolis until it was almost entirely mined out, or the 'hidden' pylon next to one of his expos, even after warped in units killed it 3 times. I'd imagine he was pretty on tilt after game 2, but his loss had nothing to do with his race, he got out metagamed in game 2 and played poorly in game 3.

The Cool vs LiveForever game above is really great. Up til now I thought the TLO v Hyperdup G1 was the best, but Cool is just awe inspiring.
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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby Robstickle » Fri Oct 01, 2010 8:44 pm UTC

BlackSails wrote:
mike-l wrote: IdrA's loss was because of some serious metagaming


Idra's loss was hilarious to me. Just the fact that his opponent planted a false build order because he knew Idra would practice against it....

He probably even just swapped accounts with someone, so he could practice his real build in secret, while the other guy used the colossus all in.


That's not what happened, he did intend to do the collosus build but then he found out that idra knew about it so he changed up.

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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby Mo0man » Fri Oct 01, 2010 8:56 pm UTC

I knew about Idra saying that he was ready for Lotze's build orders before the match, but to be honest, I'm not entirely sure whether it was in an actual interview or if Artosis was talking about it later on in some other thing
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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby Robstickle » Fri Oct 01, 2010 8:59 pm UTC

Ah I found the interview of Lotze after he beat idra. And I'm pretty sure Idra only told a few people. He wouldn't reveal something like that in an interview. All Lotze needed to do was look at idra's profile and see that he was practicing against it with a roach build. Honestly Idra needs to smurf more or something. Perhaps steal Tasteless's account.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmes ... _id=153148

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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby psion » Fri Oct 01, 2010 10:17 pm UTC

Cool was pretty lucky to have gotten to the the semifinals, but getting to the finals was definitely not luck. Tomorrow should be quite interesting.


edit: Wow... The Happy Ultralisk

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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby psion » Sat Oct 02, 2010 11:48 am UTC

The finals had pretty poor english audio, what with tasteless's cold, the korean commentators echoing through the stadium in the background, and the makeshift translator that said "This is hard."
Spoiler:
fruit 4-1
intotherainbow choked a bit, especially in the last game, but fruit basically dominated the series with gosu+1 play. I know he was saving that kulas build for the finals... it's so genius.

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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby mike-l » Sat Oct 02, 2010 4:33 pm UTC

psion wrote:The finals had pretty poor english audio, what with tasteless's cold, the korean commentators echoing through the stadium in the background, and the makeshift translator that said "This is hard."
Spoiler:
fruit 4-1
intotherainbow choked a bit, especially in the last game, but fruit basically dominated the series with gosu+1 play. I know he was saving that kulas build for the finals... it's so genius.


I've only watched the first 2 so far, but damn!

Spoiler:
Fruit Dealer is just a god! I wonder what this will do for the zerg population


The audio is mildly annoying, but it's still an amazing cast (probably better than some of their Ro64 casts). Now I just have to wait for them to finish encoding games 3+
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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby mutestorm » Sat Oct 02, 2010 5:55 pm UTC

Is there any place i can watch these, casted. all in one place?

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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby Mo0man » Sat Oct 02, 2010 7:31 pm UTC

gomtv.net is the official site, but you have to pay if you want to watch more than the first game in each series
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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby mike-l » Sat Oct 02, 2010 7:55 pm UTC

Does the 1.95 day pass give you access to all the VoDs for the day? If so it's well worth it, to watch the finals (which look to be all encoded now) and pretty much all of TLO, Fruit Dealer and idrA's games. (and I'll definitely be buying another $20 season pass for the next tourney, very worthwhile)
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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby You, sir, name? » Sat Oct 02, 2010 8:18 pm UTC

Is Fruit Dealer the official translation? I know I've seen Fruit Seller and Fruit Monger as well.
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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby Jesse » Sat Oct 02, 2010 8:50 pm UTC

Anyone else watch the hilariously epic FFA on Husky's Youtube channel?

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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby Robstickle » Sat Oct 02, 2010 9:16 pm UTC

You, sir, name? wrote:Is Fruit Dealer the official translation? I know I've seen Fruit Seller and Fruit Monger as well.


I think "A Fruit Dealer" is the exact translation but honestly "Zerg God" works too.

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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby mutestorm » Sat Oct 02, 2010 9:33 pm UTC

I think the second game of the first matchup was more rainbow's failure than fruitdealer's overpower. He was scared from the first game, which was just an overwhelming victory from fruit.

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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby mike-l » Sat Oct 02, 2010 11:13 pm UTC

mutestorm wrote:I think the second game of the first matchup was more rainbow's failure than fruitdealer's overpower. He was scared from the first game, which was just an overwhelming victory from fruit.


Great players make their opponents look like amateurs :) He did it in every matchup. Hell, he 6-pooled InCa on Kulas! How is that even possible?!
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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby mutestorm » Sun Oct 03, 2010 12:04 am UTC

He was outplayed in everything but the second game. I feel like the second was Rainbow in shock.

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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby |Erasmus| » Sun Oct 03, 2010 10:55 pm UTC

That first game of the final was incredible.

I really need to find myself a 2v2 partner. I hate playing with randoms. I just got paired with someone who just yelled at me the entire time to wall off the massive ramp at the front of both bases on War, then proceeds to get absolutely slaughtered by the first push of a few marines to break down his rocks...trying to tech straight to mutas against a terran/toss going heavy marine/stalker is just dumb. He was telling me to go mass marine (despite the fact tanks would be so good against that build) before I even put down my first depot, let alone a scout.

And I can't believe that I used to not like stim pack (back when I played the BW campaigns and never really did multiplayer)... Yay for false impressions that hurting your own units = can't be good.

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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby psion » Mon Oct 04, 2010 12:37 am UTC

No luck on sea. It's kind of par for the course to get bitched at in 2s random. I've had people bitch at me and call me a newb even though after they leave I manage to turn the game around and win. I usually completely ignore my teammate and hope that he carries his weight.

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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby Hawknc » Mon Oct 04, 2010 12:50 am UTC

|Erasmus| wrote: I can't believe that I used to not like stim pack (back when I played the BW campaigns and never really did multiplayer)... Yay for false impressions that hurting your own units = can't be good.

I've been trying hard to remove this notion from my brain, even though I generally play Protoss. Tempted to switch back to T for a bit just to see if I can manage to win a few more now that I have a decent number of games under my belt.

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Re: *geek-gasm* IT'S OFFICIAL!! (Starcraft 2)

Postby BlackSails » Mon Oct 04, 2010 3:47 am UTC

Me (lowish diamond), and two of my friends (mid gold) just beat an arranged team of 3 mid-diamond players.

They went for 4 gate, and my friend's managed to delay them with siege tanks. However, unknown to the enemy, I had gone for an 18 nexus into carriers. On a map with cliffs all over the place.

We then also won a really good game. The enemy rushed me, with zerglings and two players of MMM, and killed my main. I had gone for an 18 nexus again though, and got my first carrier out as their rush hit me. We barely managed to hold it off, then we went back and forth a bit. Once I got a mothership out though, it was all over for them. I vortexed about 50 hydras, then my friend's took their tanks and sieged them up. It was a massacre.


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