League of Legends

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Sokh
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Sokh » Fri Aug 27, 2010 1:31 pm UTC

Shaco nerfs were harsh but he's still going to be a viable and possibly quite strong choice. It's his play style more than anything that makes him the force he is. The majority of shaco players jungle and just the knowledge that he has a form of stealth and very possibly red buff forces you to play defensively. He's still going to be able to jungle (albeit slower than before) and still going to be able to stealth which means he's still going to be able to gank lanes. This will probably hinder his back dooring but that's not a bad thing.

Same with Hiemer imho, although he's taking a much larger hit and this will probably change his play style considerably. I think his ult should have been reworked and maybe his W and E given a buff or rework but we'll see how it pans out.

I started maining Udyr lately Utilitarion, I find he really excels as a jungler since he can gank extremely well with bear stance and red buff. If you want i'll go through my route and build.

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The Utilitarian
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Re: League of Legends

Postby The Utilitarian » Thu Sep 02, 2010 1:47 am UTC

BurningLed wrote:The clonesplosion is what makes 33% of AP shaco viable though :( At the very least, I was hoping they'd buff the AP ration on the boxes or shiv to balance out his viability a little. Oh well, hello newly-buffed Akali :D

Shaco doesn't NEED anything "balanced out" to be viable. Sokh's right, he's still a perfectly functional champ and a deadly one at that. Read the reasons behind the shaco nerf post on the LoL forums and I think it gives a pretty clear idea of why they were needed and why he's still a good champ. Bottom line is before he was just damned if you do, damend if you don't, where if you fight him, you lose, and if you run, you die.

I'd be curious to hear your Udyr jungle strat Sokh, even though I didn't end up buying Udyr after he stopped being free. Ended up buying Kog'Maw and now I'm playing around with Malzahar since he's free. I'm really liking the "come from nowhere with tons of magic damage" playstyle.
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setzer777
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Re: League of Legends

Postby setzer777 » Thu Sep 02, 2010 2:04 am UTC

Played Nunu recently with arranged team. One of my teammates was jungling, so I solo-laned against Akali and Kogmaw. I'm always amazed at how strong Nunu is early game! Harassing with ice shot easily kept them both away from minion line, and I even killed Akali twice when she got careless (one clean kill, one trade). Nunu does seem to fall behind later in the match however (though it was the first game I've ever gotten max stacks with Mejai's Soulstealer).
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Re: League of Legends

Postby The Utilitarian » Thu Sep 02, 2010 2:51 am UTC

setzer777 wrote:Played Nunu recently with arranged team. One of my teammates was jungling, so I solo-laned against Akali and Kogmaw. I'm always amazed at how strong Nunu is early game! Harassing with ice shot easily kept them both away from minion line, and I even killed Akali twice when she got careless (one clean kill, one trade). Nunu does seem to fall behind later in the match however (though it was the first game I've ever gotten max stacks with Mejai's Soulstealer).

I hear ya. Late game Nunu really only functions well as a meatshield and even then only so so. By 18 he's really just around for his ulti and maybe putting his buff on one of your carries.

That said, the difference he makes early game with his amazing harassing and survivability in lane can translate into a big difference in cash for your team. Nunu can make sure your carry Yi gets fed like no tomorrow and make it look easy. I find Jannia's the same way.
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Goldstein
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Goldstein » Thu Sep 02, 2010 7:16 am UTC

The Utilitarian wrote:Nunu can make sure your carry Yi gets fed like no tomorrow and make it look easy. I find Jannia's the same way.

Do you mean to say that there's some way in which a teammate's performance can affect your gold, or are you just referring to the case where they lane together?

My friend got me into this a while ago and I've toyed with a few characters. I ended up buying Annie as I typically like pure mages, but I found her playstyle really dull; really, I like playing control wizards in systems that are complex enough to make it fun, but Annie just has three 'drop damage on them' abilities and an awkward stun. During a recent week in which Corki was free, I picked him much to the protests of my friend, and I've really enjoyed playing as him since then. I get the impression that most players assume he's made of paper and that his ulti missiles have a long cooldown; the ability to valkyrie in, gatling gun whilst moving and fire off long-ranged missiles means I can often get the kill when my opponent backs out of a fight. I think my main sticking point is that I'm not cautious enough early game and sometimes end up with a death on my score sheet that really could be avoided.

Most of my runes/masteries are split between attack and defence - I have runes for attack power, attack speed, armour and magic resistance, which I feel is a mix worth going for so as to minimise diminishing returns and to get primary runes in each slot. I tend to build toward attack damage and speed, because I'm just never that impressed with the effects of ability power. The end result is that my basic attack is a lot more brutal than I give it credit for, and I end up messing about trying to hurt people by ability nuking when my main cannon could do most of the work for me. I should really give the ability power route a go; the wiki suggests Corki can make a good long-range harasser, but missiles get a mere +0.3 damage per ability power, so even 500AP is only a 50% damage increase at top level. I'd much rather AP increased the non-damage aspects of abilities such as duration, degree of slowing/blinding, perhaps range, etc.

I've had real trouble with Evelynn recently; even if I reveal her with Phosphorous Bomb, she can hide again before I finish her off and then there's nothing I can do but wait for the stun and nuke, which I rarely survive.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Sokh » Thu Sep 02, 2010 8:12 am UTC

I've really only found one situation where nunu is a strong pick and thats just to counter a hiemer in mid, consume has a lower CD than his turrets and can one shot them. But end game he really doesn't contribute much to the team outside of his ult and since the hiemer nerf he lost alot of his strengths. Blood boil is great on a carry but the extra damage you give them is outweighed by the general uselessness of taking nunu over any other support char. Nidalee can give a heal/IAS buff while still bringing other great utility and damage (bushwhack has saved me so many times when i can't afford a ward early game).

For Udyr jungling, I take AS marks and quints, dodge seals, and MR per level glyphs. For summoner spells I take Smite and Ghost and use a 0/21/9 mastery build. All the usual masteries except I take ardor which on most champs is nigh on worthless but the AS is really helpful for Udyr because of phoenix stance. Start off with cloth armour and 5 hp pots and head to golem, preferably having the mid and side lane spot for you to avoid ganks. Once golems up head in spam phoenix every CD, use an hp pot once you take damage and smite the golem at the end to finish it. Polish off the two small lizards and you should hit level 2 then take turtle stance, then head over to the wolf pack just below (or above depending on your starting side but from here I'll assume you're on the bottom half of the map. I'm sure you can work out how to do it if you start the other side :P) You'll be a bit short of mana at the start even with golem so don't worry if you have to wait a few seconds before heading in. Rotate between phoenix and turtle trying to swap towards the end of your passive buff to keep up the AS buff and dodge, it's a little tricky at first knowing which stance to commit to if you can only afford one more swap but you'll get a feel for it as you play Udyr more. From here head to the wraiths and by the time you take them down you should be level 3 where you'll take the second level of phoenix and smite should be off cooldown. You'll probably have popped another potion by now but you might be a little low still, pop another to top you off (without wasting any on over healing) and get ready to take the red lizard buff. You'll need to wait 5-10 seconds for mana but once you're ready head in and rotate phoenix and turtle and finish it off with the smite then finish off the two smaller creeps. You should be level 4 now or close to leveling. Take out the two small golems below lizard and put a point in bear stance when you level. Now assess the game quickly, check you have reasonable health and mana and see if any of the lanes have an over extended low health or squishy character. Communicate with your team and see if its possible to set up a gank. You'll have a little bit left on golem buff, a fresh red buff and bear stance, making you a fantastic early ganker. Assuming someone is suitable for a gank, get in a good position ( preferably coming from behind them) and co ordinate with your team mate to take them out. Switch to bear stance for the MS buff and don't be afraid to pop ghost to close the distance if necessary. Know your limits though, you're not the unkillable ganking machine you soon be just yet. It's better to have a failed gank with no one dieing than a gank where you die in the process, or worse a failed gank where you still die. After the gank, or if there was no one suitable ( it happens, don't try and force one if you can't see an obvious one) check to make sure there are no MIAs and head to their golem assuming you're not on deaths door. Again, smite should be ready to use that to finish off the golem and polish off the two small lizards and the wolves above. By now, you should be around 1k gold or more if you got a successful gank and it's time to head back and grab madreds (the one that does 500 damage to minions) and boots of speed. If you've got some more cash thanks to a gank or sneakily grabbing some last hits before heading back into the jungle, buy a ward or two and maybe a couple potions although potions soon lose their value thanks to turtle stances shield and regen. Wraiths should be back up so head there and wipe out that camp, by now you should be able to activate phoenix stance, then straight to turtle and kill them all from the phoenix stance activation aoe. Make sure its safe, then head to take out the dragon possibly warding down river to protect yourself from ganks. Do the usual rotating between phoenix stance and turtle stance till the dragon gets low, popping your potion if necessary then finish him off with a smite, giving your whole team some delicious exp and 130g. From here it's pretty much the same, rotate through the jungle till team fights break out, dropping wards at key places (I'll mention some at the bottom of the post) controlling the buffs and taking out dragon every time its up to give your team a definite and incredibly helpful level and gold advantage, and ganking as much as possible.

Item wise, after you've done the first trip back for the madreds and level 1 boots, head back sometime soon after to grab mercury treads if they have a lot of CC, ninja tabi if they have a few melee, or in the incredibly unlikely event they have almost all casters with only a couple stuns snares or taunts, boots of swiftness (though this will rarely if at all happen, I've never seen it come up) Once you have boots and madreds the rest of your build depends heavily on who you're against. Got some physical champs starting to get a little out of hand? Take sunfire cape and tank them to death with it's aoe passive and phoenix stance. Got some casters making life painful? Take a force of nature, which is also a great item thanks to its increased MS making closing the gap with bear stance easier. Do they keep opening up their burst with a disable? Take a banshees and put a spanner in the works. As you play more you'll get a feeling of what to buy vs certain champs and comps but largely you'll be buying items such as sunfire cape, force of nature, banshees and randuins. To be honest I don't often buy randuins but if you've got the cash to spare its a great asset to your team, and upgrading your madreds into a wriggle's lantern for the extra stats and a free ward can be worth it later on if you can spare the cash. The one thing I can't stress enough that you should buy is sight wards. Buy them, no seriously go buy them, go buy some now, like right now. They can save you from an impending gank, help you set up a gank if you see someone alone, save a tower if that Yi thinks hes being sneaking going through the jungle, keep an eye on dragon or neutral buffs, or spot a trap in that bush you were thinking of walking past. They'll soon pay for them selves over and over, map awareness and extended vision are the most amazing tools you could possibly have in a game like LoL. You'll be roaming around the map making you the prime candidate to place them, but suggest to your team mates to help you out later on once they've got their core items and are roaming around as well.

Skill leveling wise, I generally go R>W>R>E>R>W>R>W>R>E>E>E>E>W>W>Q>Q>Q. You might have to spend a point in W between all those Es. I can't remember but basically you want to max phoenix and get turtle to 3 then prioritise bear and finally put 3 points in Q because you have to and I suppose its ok at killing towers, just, yea tiger stance blows. For warding locations, try to keep one in front of dragon to keep and eye on his spawn and the enemy team if they go for him doing a similar thing at baron later on in the game. In bushes either side of mid, or the small bushes further out in the middle of the river to keep and eye on enemy movement and possibly save your carry from a gank in mid. Generally you just want wards in bushes near locations that your enemy might move through or nearby to your lanes to prevent ganks. Putting wards at neutral buffs and be a great idea since you have smite and can hide in the bush then steal last hit for the buff then punish the low health champ for entering YOUR jungle.

This is the first guide or anything I've written so if you still have questions or anything I'll answer them and add them into the post. This actually turned out a lot longer and better than I thought so any feedback would be cool, if it's positive I might post it on the LoL forums or leaguecraft.

Edit: changed masteries recommendation, much prefer the extra buff durations to the small bonus to smite and changed boots recommendation since I realised I was being a baddie when I wrote it before.
Last edited by Sokh on Wed Sep 29, 2010 11:49 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: League of Legends

Postby Sokh » Thu Sep 02, 2010 8:24 am UTC

Sorry for the double post but wanted to keep my guide separate.

Goldstein wrote:My friend got me into this a while ago and I've toyed with a few characters. I ended up buying Annie as I typically like pure mages, but I found her playstyle really dull; really, I like playing control wizards in systems that are complex enough to make it fun, but Annie just has three 'drop damage on them' abilities and an awkward stun.


Annie isn't that dull really, and the awkward stun is a huge part of her gameplay. Timing out your attacks and knowing when to build up and save your stun and when to just use it to carry on casting is a key part of knowing to play Annie. Using her stun with a tibbers during a team fight is devastating and can totally turn around what might seem like a lost team fight into a massacre in favor of your team. Try taking a point in molten shield at 5 to be able to cheaply build another stack of her passive ready to stun and harass with a Q stun followed up by W. Your opposing laners will soon learn to fear you when you have a cloud flowing round you (that indicates her next spell will stun) which you can use to scare them letting you last hit freely, or leave it on 4 stacks then quickly hit molten shield to get a stun ready and blast them with the combo when they don't expect you to have a stun ready.

Most of my runes/masteries are split between attack and defence - I have runes for attack power, attack speed, armour and magic resistance, which I feel is a mix worth going for so as to minimise diminishing returns and to get primary runes in each slot. I tend to build toward attack damage and speed, because I'm just never that impressed with the effects of ability power.


You'll probably find armour pen will increase your damage a lot more than AD or AS from runes, I think its been mathematically proven on the forums before.

I've had real trouble with Evelynn recently; even if I reveal her with Phosphorous Bomb, she can hide again before I finish her off and then there's nothing I can do but wait for the stun and nuke, which I rarely survive.


Early game invest in a vision ward, it'll reveal her while stealthed saving you from her ganks. Also, if she doesn't know it's there she may stand in a dangerous spot thinking you can't see her, allowing you and your laning partner to tear her to shreds. Outside of stealth she's incredible squishy and besides ravage she has little to no damage. Once people start roaming around wards will be less effective so someone will need to invest in an oracles which will totally negate her, stealth or not as soon as shes in range she'll get disabled and nuked before she can say "ohshioneofthemhasoraclesandcanseeme"

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Re: League of Legends

Postby Goldstein » Thu Sep 02, 2010 9:13 am UTC

I'm afraid I can't comment on your guide, it's beyond me, but I'm interested in the jungling idea as an additional XP route and might ask my Heimerdinger friend if he'd like to 2v1 occasionally while I nip off to jungle. I'm sure he'll be keen.

I understand the idea behind Annie's stun and I agree she's powerful, I just don't enjoy playing her as much as what I'd consider a 'proper' mage. "Use these spells right and you'll be rewarded with a stun" and "Cast this spell at the right time and you'll be rewarded with mana" are pretty artificial challenges thrown onto an otherwise repetitive character. I like more variation in the abilities - I really enjoyed playing as Gangplank for this reason, as he's got a little of everything going for him.

Sokh wrote:You'll probably find armour pen will increase your damage a lot more than AD or AS from runes, I think its been mathematically proven on the forums before.


Thanks, and I'll look into this, but Corki might be the exception here. He does an additional 10% true damage on each attack, so the effect of armour penetration is going to be reduced slightly and I figured I'd just avoid it. I will consider it though.

Vision wards are sounding pretty appealing right now. Will a vision ward I own/place reveal stealthed characters for my teammates too?
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Sokh » Thu Sep 02, 2010 9:31 am UTC

Yep, thats the beauty of wards, and why I really pushed them in my guide. They give the entire team vision of the surrounding area, much like how you can see the area around your creeps even if your whole team is the other side of the map. Vision wards are more expensive and will also allow you to see invisible units around it. Oracles will essentially turn you into a walking vision ward, as long as the guy with oracles is in range of the invisible unit, all his team mates can see them too. This is why mid to high tier, eve is seen as worthless since she can be easily spotted out of stealth and annihilated.

Regarding Corki, I had forgotten his passive. He might be better off with AS then but I can say with 99% certainty that AD will be pretty bad. I think I looked at the runes once and even if you get scaling per level ones, at 18 its only something like 20 damage. Arp vs AS though you may need to look into, I don't have the experience with him to make anything more than an educated guess.

You should definitely give jungling a try, it really helps the team. It means someone gets a 1v2 lane and will greatly out level their opponents which makes for a fantastic advantage, they get more chance to last hit and as a result more gold, killing dragon often and early gives your team more gold and exp than the enemies, and controlling the buffs around the map gives a fantastic advantage. Remember you don't always need to take them yourself, I often call someone out a lane if they're nearby and not busy to grab a red or blue buff if I don't need it. Theres nothing more beautiful than calling kog maw out from mid to grab red then charging out the bush and destroying his lane opponent that got cocky and had a pop at the tower.

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Re: League of Legends

Postby Goldstein » Thu Sep 02, 2010 10:03 am UTC

Thanks, you've really opened my eyes about some of the finer points of the game :) I'll crack open Excel when I get home and look into changing my runes, read up on the consumables and see if I can't get in some jungling instead of hopelessly trying to push towers in the early game.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Sokh » Thu Sep 02, 2010 10:11 am UTC

No worries mate, been playing for a couple months now? Really bad at tracking time. I always end up doing this in games, reading up on a tonne of info from sites and learning as much as I can even if my skills in game don't mirror my knowledge :P

If you wanna see some jungling first hand or play around in some practise games or something feel free to add me in game, user names same as on the fora.

And btw never push a tower early game, let them push to yours by only going for last hits, then you have the cover of the tower to last hit from safely, and they're far away from their tower and easier to gank if they make a mistake.

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Re: League of Legends

Postby Goldstein » Thu Sep 02, 2010 10:53 am UTC

Last-hitting makes sense. One thing I've been wondering a while: Do I get just the same XP from a kill as I do from being in the area when the creature dies? I suspect so, but it feels a little counter-intuitive after every other character-progression game so it's hard to get used to changing playstyle for this.

I'll add you when I can; Goldstein was taken when I signed up, so I ended up with the less fortunate title of Cockstein.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Sokh » Thu Sep 02, 2010 11:13 am UTC

My friend argues that you get more exp if you deal damage to the minion but I've never come across anything supporting this and not tested it myself. But I'm fairly sure you get the same if not very similar exp for just being in the area, it's split between all allies in the area which is why the 1v2 lane on a junglers team levels faster as they're not sharing exp like their opponents. If you do get more exp its a minuscule amount and being able to fight near your turret far outweighs it. I'd say last hitting is one of the hardest things to get used to when you first start LoL but its also one of the most important, along with learning when to give up on a kill and when to retreat back to your tower if you suspect a gank.

Nice user name, surprised its not banned :P Though I was once grouped with an Ezreal called cockgobbler.

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Re: League of Legends

Postby The Utilitarian » Sat Sep 04, 2010 2:08 am UTC

Played a truely epic game on Malphite this morning and i'm pleased to say that since the rebuild he's a really useful char now. It helped that I had some good allies and that the enemy team was mostly physical dps, which plays to Malph's tank strengths but still.

Might try an AP build on him soon and see how well that goes.

And yea, to get damage out of your runes Armor Pen or Magic Pen Marks are your best choice.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Goldstein » Tue Sep 07, 2010 8:02 pm UTC

Thanks for the tip against Evelyn, Sokh. I'd bought an Oracle before my first encounter with her, and from then on all I had to do was right-click. It, uh, also gave me a good view of what was going on when she tried to stealth right by my tower to last-hit me. I can't help but think she would have died either way in that case, though.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby setzer777 » Tue Sep 07, 2010 10:18 pm UTC

Goldstein wrote:Thanks for the tip against Evelyn, Sokh. I'd bought an Oracle before my first encounter with her, and from then on all I had to do was right-click. It, uh, also gave me a good view of what was going on when she tried to stealth right by my tower to last-hit me. I can't help but think she would have died either way in that case, though.


Yeah, don't towers reveal invisible?
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Goldstein » Wed Sep 08, 2010 7:06 am UTC

Yeah. They also hit really hard.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby The Utilitarian » Wed Sep 08, 2010 11:04 pm UTC

Malzahar buff right after he's not free anymore -_- I loved playing him and now he'd have a useful ulti! Man he needs to go on sale so I can buy him with my leftover riot points. I don't want to have to save up 6300IP for him, and besides I've got two more flat HP quints to buy. So expensive!
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Gelsamel » Sat Sep 11, 2010 12:53 pm UTC

I dislike the trend in the metagame that Riot is, well, essentially forcing on the game. People say it's a fotm but it isn't. It's clear from the trend of heros like Olaf/Garen/Vladimir (even Xin/MF/Kogmaw to a lesser extent) that they're making the metagame, whether they mean to or not, more focused on bulky DPS.

How can a glass cannon Twitch hope to keep up with the likes of Garen or Olaf unless he too bulks up (and maybe gets a bloodrazor).

It's forcing the metagame to be so linear and single goaled as opposed to varied based on team comp and enemy tactics. As a phys DPS you basically have to get a Mandreds (or be Poppy), then get HP. Because if you don't, you won't kill Garen/Olaf/Vladimir quick enough or survive long enough to kill them.

Edit: I'm looking forward to Irelia assuming the rumors are true. v-13 for my League of Legends... <3
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Re: League of Legends

Postby setzer777 » Sat Sep 11, 2010 2:18 pm UTC

It does seem like there is a trend towards more bulky dps, but I don't think it's the only viable strategy by any means. Aoe teams and stun teams still seem very powerful. A glass cannon like Twitch can still devastate the opposing team, he just needs a good tank and cc to tie them up long enough.

Personally, I'm glad dps is getting bulkier. Soloqueue seems slightly better now that I don't have to worry about my entire team being squishy as hell. I think a lot of the bulkier dps is stronger in less organized play, but is outclassed by more specialized roles in a well coordinated team. I think the issue is that most teams only need one carry (with everyone else being tank or support), but everyone in soloqueue wants to play dps, so they are making tankier dps heroes that sacrifice damage (Garen and Olaf will never touch the damage late-game Tristana or Twitch can do) for the ability to not die in two seconds to the opposing carry.

Btw, I know I'm at a lower level of play, but does AD Kog'maw seem OP or what? When I have him on my team, we always win if the game runs long, even if we were losing fairly substantially beforehand. His crazy range plus late game damage just seems to destroy opposing teams.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Goldstein » Sat Sep 11, 2010 2:21 pm UTC

The whole game is just people hitting each other, so it stands to reason that your character should generalise for best effect, however dull that makes the gameplay. While you want to go DPS, there comes a point where your damage output is greater if you increase your health rather than your damage. For tanks, the reverse is true.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Gelsamel » Sat Sep 11, 2010 3:33 pm UTC

Mandred's Kogmaw rips everything apart. He will probably get nerfed at some point. Personally I think Mana Regen Artillery Spam Wall of Pain is really fun on Kogmaw.

Edit: Any comments on the new hero? It seems to be an expy of v-13. Minus the warping in swords thing.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby The Utilitarian » Sat Sep 11, 2010 4:11 pm UTC

I'm not so sure about this push towards "bulky dps" that folks are talking about. Good Twitch, Yi, or Ashe players can still mop up a game. Personally it just seems like people are getting more wise against Carry characters like Twitch and trying harder and harder to starve them early on. As people play more and more cautiously to avoid these kinds of dps monsters, tougher, less gear dependant characters gain steam.

Also Miss Fortune would represent a clear break from this so called trend. She's a glass cannon by anyone's definition.

As for the Mandred's Razor Kog'maw build I'm really against it. I play Koggy quite a bit and I have a lot more success with the ridiculously hard hitting Void Ooze/Artillery combos of an AP build. 6 seconds of extreme range/super damage is nice and all but the first thing any guide will tell you is not to go right for the tanks, since you want to get the dps carries down first. Well if you're attacking low hp carry characters your 10% hp per shot (minus magic resist!) could actually end up being far LESS effective than AP kog's nukes (especially since the Caustic Spittle buff), or another range dps like Tristana's straight damage.

I'd much rather have a harder hitting ultimate on Kog. It allows you to deliver more consistant on demand damage and lets you take out that annoying Ez who's just out of reach of anything else. There's nothing worse than being in your hardcore AD build but in a situation where the only thing that's reachign your enemies is the ulti, and it's so weak you could ignore it thanks to your build.

Frankly I think a lot of the reason people under-value AP kog-maw builds is because they don't realize how much more value his ulti gets from Mpen than it does from AP. the flat Mpen from Haunting Visage makes a huge difference when combined with your runes and scorc's boots.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Gelsamel » Sat Sep 11, 2010 4:30 pm UTC

And as someone who has come up against an Kog Artillery, Ashe Volley wall of pain... the pressure is ridiculous. Even if you're dodging well it still means you can't do crap. They can keep you at bay for ages, keep you tower hugging forever.

Anyway, it's certainly true that the glass cannons will do more than the bulky dps but the existance of bulky dps is still skewing the game towards high HP. As Goldstein said it's often beneficial to pick up HP here and there rather than DPS on a glass cannon. But I think that situation is cropping up more and more often with the introduction of so many bulky DPS champs. I'm not sure I'm a fan of focusing the metagame towards a single style like this.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Goldstein » Sat Sep 11, 2010 4:49 pm UTC

You know what I'd like to play? Some sort of support mage.

He wouldn't do any damage and he'd be made of paper. He'd have a low-cooldown short range teleport, a meditate ability for mana much like Yi's health regain, and his ultimate would be something like a 4-second stun. For a passive, he could be immune to silence. I guess he needs another attack, so either something that cripples armour and MR, or some means of moving the opponent around. I suppose it'd help if he had some sort of area effect spell, since he'd be relying on someone else to deal damage and so often be assisting a champion in what would otherwise be a 2v1 fight. What I'm trying to say is that four abilities aren't enough, and I want loads of crazy utility spells that don't deal any damage in isolation. It'd probably be best to just play a different game.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Gelsamel » Sat Sep 11, 2010 5:01 pm UTC

Yeah I'd really like a really weird utility character. Every skill should be situational but the 4 skills should cover most situations. And have dual uses like Anivia's Frost Ball thing and also have inventive uses like Anivia's wall. Anivia is clearly the closest but then she has a silly straight forward nuke and a maelstrom which isn't as straight forward but it's still too straight forward to be what I'm looking for.

I think the new incoming character is going to be my favourite for a while now.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Goldstein » Sat Sep 11, 2010 5:14 pm UTC

I had a few games as Anivia. The wall's cool, reminds me of my Ultima Online days and got me one or two kills, but it's pretty fiddly to cast and by the time it's down you end up with people on the wrong side of it. Still, I was pleased to see an ability that didn't damage, buff or heal.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby The Utilitarian » Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:34 pm UTC

If you want to play a support mage you want to play Janna or Taric. They're amazing lane partners early on and they can completely turn a teamfight in the late game.

With Janna you get a team movement bonus, HUGE hp absorbing shield you can cast on your friends that also increases their damage (great AP ratio too) massive range/radius AE stun (with enough damage to wipe out a minion wave), a slow nuke that provides you with extra move speed while it's ready, and for her ultimate a massive knockback for your enemies and channeled heal over time for your allies. Fantastic.

With Taric you regen your mana as you melee so you can provide support forever. You've got a heal with a (new and improved) great AP ratio that ALSO heals you when you cast it. You've got a stun for up to 2 seconds even with a single rank, you've got massive armor that also provides armor to your allies and you can explode for big ae damage and reduced armor on your enemies (amazing when coupled with high dps chars like Ashe or Yi), and finally your ulti continually heals you and provides you and your allies with bonus attack damage.

Janna feels more like a support "mage" and Taric's a bit more of a support "tank" but they're both amazing support role characters.

If you like being a supporter play one of these people and you will make your team-mates awesome.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby BlackSails » Sun Sep 12, 2010 5:45 am UTC

setzer777 wrote:
Btw, I know I'm at a lower level of play, but does AD Kog'maw seem OP or what? When I have him on my team, we always win if the game runs long, even if we were losing fairly substantially beforehand. His crazy range plus late game damage just seems to destroy opposing teams.


Thats what happens when I play bloodrazor kogmaw. I usually go like 1-4 or so until I get bloodrazor, then from there I just murder everything. Once I get up to >2 attack speed, everything just dies.

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Re: League of Legends

Postby Gelsamel » Sun Sep 12, 2010 5:49 am UTC

Janna is certainly interesting, but I didn't have much fun with Taric.

Actually Soraka was my main for quite a while, but now that Riot dessimated healing (and healing is Soraka's one trick pony) Soraka isn't so useful in comparison to Taric/Janna, especially considering her Starcall spell requires her be in ULTRA MEGA DEATH RANGE of the enemy to be of any use.

Actually I've been playing Nidalee a bunch too, she is amazing. I was playing around with the builder and with ridiculous items that you'll never get (Zhon+5x Archangel's + Mana Runes, better than AP with 5x Archangels, and AP/Mana masteries) you can get her heal upto about 2k (+60% aspd) and her Spear hitting like 2k at the end of it's range.

Ninjaed: Yeah, Bloodrazor Kog is crazy.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Sokh » Sun Sep 12, 2010 4:09 pm UTC

Bloodrazer Kog can do a terrifying amount of damage but he's a complete glass cannon. What I've found good at countering him is having some wards about so you can see where their team is just before a team fight and getting an assassin character (akali or kassasdin work perfectly for this) to sneak round the back and hide in some bushes till the fight starts. A couple seconds in when people have set their focus on targets, they port in, proceed to obliterate kog then port out again. Kass can do this fairly well and I think akali can use her ult on a friendly ward but I might be thinking of Kats shunpo. MR is your friend vs BR kogs though, his E ability and BR are magic damage so just a banshees will help incredible amounts.

I used to play Janna a tonne before the meta game shift and I absolutely loved her. Flash and her ult can win games and her shield can be put on two people at once with some CDR and timing which can make your carry and another dps both more survivable and more deadly. About the recent meta game, I think its close to changing soon. With the recent Kog buffs making him tear through the bulky dps chars, the assassin chars coming in to stop Kog, and a new support champ on the horizon, teams will be changing I think. Though this totally depends on the new champ and how decent s/he is.

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Re: League of Legends

Postby Gelsamel » Sun Sep 12, 2010 4:34 pm UTC

Speaking of; Wards on Kat are amazing. If you're quick you can often drop a ward and shunpo to safety, or just have wards already preestablished spots to help you shunpo out of danger.

Edit: Plus, you pretty much needs wards anyway to help get ganks at baron/dragon or defend them as well as jungle ganks.

Edit2: Support champ on the horzion? League of Legends Wikia says the next champ up is Irelia a Melee Physical DPS (Gets ASPD bonus vs multiple opponents but is susceptable to CC) and seems to be an expy of v-13 (making her instantly my favourite character). Might be incorrect but it's supposedly from an issue of PC Gamer.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Sokh » Sun Sep 12, 2010 5:26 pm UTC

Wards are mandatory in every game, no question on that. I'd heard from a couple people that the new champ was a melee/support champ, may be wrong though. Just have to wait for a leak or something then I guess, but I still think the tanky meta game will shift soon.

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Re: League of Legends

Postby Gelsamel » Sun Sep 12, 2010 7:53 pm UTC

Sokh wrote:Wards are mandatory in every game, no question on that. I'd heard from a couple people that the new champ was a melee/support champ, may be wrong though. Just have to wait for a leak or something then I guess, but I still think the tanky meta game will shift soon.


I linked a supposed leak up above.

For convenience;

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Irelia/Background
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Sokh » Sun Sep 12, 2010 8:05 pm UTC

Cheers, for some reason the fora stopped emailing me about this thread being posted in so I missed a bunch.

Looking at that description I'm already terrified of her, but not being on the enemy team. I can just imagine baddies buying her and rushing in 1v5 trying to kill the whole enemy team alone "BUT I GETZ XTRA ATK SPEEDDDZZ" But as usual, I'll reserve judgement till I see them in game. Was kinda hoping it was a support char, all the current support chars are too squishy for the current meta except maybe Morgana but its debatable whether she can really be classed as support.

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Re: League of Legends

Postby The Utilitarian » Mon Sep 13, 2010 11:39 pm UTC

Sokh wrote: Was kinda hoping it was a support char, all the current support chars are too squishy for the current meta except maybe Morgana but its debatable whether she can really be classed as support.

Once again I'll sing the virtues of Taric. Support character extraordinate and tough as nails.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby BurningLed » Tue Sep 14, 2010 12:16 am UTC

Has anybody checked out the custom skin department the game has? I've downloaded plenty off of Leaguecraft, though I definitely have a couple of favorites (Dullahan Mordekaiser looks insane.)

I haven't done much myself other than recoloring, like punk/silver Blitzcrank and emerald Anivia (Just those, since they're all one color and it's pretty easy to do. Having problems with Blitz's rocket grab though -- I can get the hands to look fine normally, and during the grab itself, but in a split second after the cast but before the hand actually launches, it flashes back to its original yellow color before going back to metallic slate and I can't seem to find the .dds file to change that.
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Re: League of Legends

Postby Sokh » Tue Sep 14, 2010 7:27 am UTC

The Utilitarian wrote:Once again I'll sing the virtues of Taric. Support character extraordinate and tough as nails.


Huurrppp a deerpppp. Somehow forgot about the best support char currently in game >.< He really is amazing. His heal is pretty strong and has a very respectable AP ratio, the stun is utterly game changing and his passive armour bonus can make a subtle but definite difference. His ult.... eehhhhh it's okay, but when you have such great normal skills you can't ask for too much from your ult. It's ok for knocking down towers or short fights but anything longer and you just oom yourself too fast.

I've looked at a few custom skins but never bothered downloading any until the other night. Downloaded white knight poppy, and it looks utterly amazing. It's made by the same guy that did the bilgewater Katarina skin that was recently added to the game by Riot.

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Re: League of Legends

Postby zaneman05 » Thu Sep 16, 2010 4:54 am UTC

Hey, I play League of Legends on a frequent basis, maining vladimir and ezrael, I need a group of intelligent competent players to play with regularly with coive comm, anyone interested?

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Re: League of Legends

Postby Gelsamel » Thu Sep 16, 2010 7:56 am UTC

So it turns out the new champ is a support champ and she looks crazy awesome (totally getting her) I imagine Irelia is after, maybe.

Edit: Also been playin' Janna, she is awesome. Infinite escapability :D
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