... the Kingdom Hearts thread

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Re: ... the Kingdom Hearts thread

Postby Bulvox » Mon Sep 21, 2009 6:38 am UTC

I ended up getting Kingdom Hearts 2 first, so I beat that game, and now I'm working on the original. I'm up to the Colosseum, trying to beat Cerberus.
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Re: ... the Kingdom Hearts thread

Postby ^_^ » Sun Jun 06, 2010 12:32 pm UTC

Ah man, I had forgotten just how awesome Kingdom Hearts was, and just started it again today. Beyond. Amazing.
Never got around to playing KH2. I feared for my sanity in the case that it was terrible, as so often happens with sequels. However, think I might finally give it a go after I finish the original again :D

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Re: ... the Kingdom Hearts thread

Postby Box Boy » Sun Jun 06, 2010 5:07 pm UTC

SPOILERS IN LIGHT BLUE. NOT ANYMORE, PAST ME!

I always found the gameplay in II to be some what lacking in nearly all areas when compared to the original, along with the
Spoiler:
return of the Disney villains to be ridiculos, with the exception of Hades.
I also think the worlds are no where near as good as they used to be with only three exceptions
Spoiler:
(Pride Lands, Hollow Bastion (Still not as great as the first) and the final level)
because they had virtually no exploration value, were linear as Hell and none of them had the same general feeling of "This is a large, open world which has a variety of places to see, visit and experience, and dozens of small secrets to discover."

On the pro side, the plot is good, SYNTHESIS NO LONGER SUCKS MONKEY TESTICALS, the camera is finally bearable, the story is quite a bit more engaging, we start to get closure on many old issues, Sora looks 'Pimpin' in his new outfit, there are new, great, unique, summons, brand new fighting styles, Limit Breaks (!!!!) are now available and the new minigames are more fun than the old.

It really is a mixed bag.

(I didn't mention graphics and music because, as a Square game, you should know these are great)
Last edited by Box Boy on Sun Jun 06, 2010 5:52 pm UTC, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: ... the Kingdom Hearts thread

Postby Jorpho » Sun Jun 06, 2010 5:40 pm UTC

Box Boy wrote:SPOILERS IN LIGHT BLUE
Really, we have "spoiler" tags on this board, which is good, because some of us use SubSilver.

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Re: ... the Kingdom Hearts thread

Postby Vanguard » Sun Jun 06, 2010 5:46 pm UTC

I haven't beat either of them. The first was too difficult... The second was easier and I got farther but it still got too hard for me. The whole spell switching interface thing... I simply couldn't do. I just tried hacking and slashing my way through both games and it just doesn't work.
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Re: ... the Kingdom Hearts thread

Postby Box Boy » Sun Jun 06, 2010 5:48 pm UTC

Jorpho wrote:
Box Boy wrote:SPOILERS IN LIGHT BLUE
Really, we have "spoiler" tags on this board, which is good, because some of us use SubSilver.

Huh, I assumed you'd have to highlight the text to be able to comfortably read it on subsilver as well, and I truly detest the spoiler tag for any purpose beyond condensing long walls of text or images, so sorry.

In fairness, I did also give a warning.
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Re: ... the Kingdom Hearts thread

Postby Xanthir » Thu Jun 10, 2010 12:56 am UTC

So, you hate using spoilers for hiding... spoilers?

Curious.
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Re: ... the Kingdom Hearts thread

Postby Box Boy » Thu Jun 10, 2010 6:08 am UTC

I don't know why, but I prefer the method of marking spoilers used in websites like TvTropes compared to our spoiler tag. It just makes it look awkward to write about something with without leaving the spoilers uncovered because you have to insert of midway through paragraphs and sentences, and at the same time I think it works better for hiding large pictures and walls of text Instead.
It's just a pet peeve of mine.
But we're getting off topic now.
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Re: ... the Kingdom Hearts thread

Postby Veora » Thu Jun 10, 2010 9:56 am UTC

God i miss KH! My old PS2 still sits on my desk, i've lost all the wires, and memory cards (and games) for it. :< (What i wouldn't give to play it, wonder if the emulator works better yet, otherwise i might take a trip to ebay!) i loved the duel-weild and a few of the worlds in KH2 (Lion King, Mulan) but KH1 is just so much closer to my nolstalgic heart!

Spoiler:
I remember HATING the fight against Rikku in the first KH was soso difficult first time :<
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Re: ... the Kingdom Hearts thread

Postby ^_^ » Fri Jun 11, 2010 1:13 am UTC

Oh man, my most hated fight at the moment is Squall and Yuffie at the Pegasus Cup. Being me, I just rush through the game not really levelling up more than necessary, meaning my pety level now makes them difficult to beat :roll: That coupled with the fact I have a physics exam in 24 hours I'm meant to be studying for. Whoooops. Might just come back and beat them after another world or two :D

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Re: ... the Kingdom Hearts thread

Postby Jorpho » Fri Jun 11, 2010 2:59 am UTC

What happened to KH3, anyway? I saw references to it years ago. Not that I'd be playing it without a PS3 anyway. (I suppose we did get 358/2 and Birth by Sleep.)

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Re: ... the Kingdom Hearts thread

Postby Rogenem » Fri Jun 11, 2010 3:23 am UTC

I'm still waiting for KH III as well. I've heard Nomura will be directing it, so we are all waiting for FFvsXIII come out, so he can dedicate his time to KH III.

Speaking of most hated battles, I've had KH II for a couple of years, but it only until less than a month ago that I managed to beat Sephiroth. It was a bit stressful.

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Re: ... the Kingdom Hearts thread

Postby Veora » Fri Jun 11, 2010 8:04 am UTC

Rogenem wrote:I'm still waiting for KH III as well. I've heard Nomura will be directing it, so we are all waiting for FFvsXIII come out, so he can dedicate his time to KH III.

Speaking of most hated battles, I've had KH II for a couple of years, but it only until less than a month ago that I managed to beat Sephiroth. It was a bit stressful.


never did manage it, i did, however find the KH2 fight alot easier than the KH version, probably becuase of the quick-time stuff
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Re: ... the Kingdom Hearts thread

Postby Box Boy » Fri Jun 11, 2010 11:25 am UTC

Sephiroth and the bonus boss in Agrabah (both KH1) are the only bosses I've ever had trouble with, however I was level ninety nine with all the top end equipment, stats and abilities when I fought Sephiroth in KH2 so I can't really comment on him as he was made piss easy.
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Re: ... the Kingdom Hearts thread

Postby Ukamoc » Fri Jun 11, 2010 4:06 pm UTC

I love the entire series, I get a weird sense of nostalgia playing them and will probably continue to support the series forever. But I feel the need to vent something.

I bought a copy (used, I think) of KH1 over a year ago, as the one I had was borrowed from a friend and I knew I'd have to give it back someday. He wanted it back a few weeks ago, and just yesterday I decide to crack out my copy. I hadn't cracked the plastic sticker seal on the case yet, since I didn't have the need to. I should've though, since when I opened it there was no game disc in it. Still sealed, manual inside, no disc. I'm devastated. I'm going to go plead to the gaming store I bought it from, hopefully they'll take pity on me...
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Re: ... the Kingdom Hearts thread

Postby ^_^ » Mon Jun 14, 2010 3:45 am UTC

Oh mannn. I hate when that happens. Never happened to me with a game, but it has with dvds a few times >.< It's so irritating! Good luck on getting a copy! I recently bought a used copy of KH too, seeing as how I foolishly lost my original one somehow -_- How typical of me haha

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Re: ... the Kingdom Hearts thread

Postby MessioticRambles » Wed Jun 16, 2010 6:50 am UTC

I'm going to acquire myself a copy of 368/2 Days sometime soon(no DS, just a PSP), and then get Birth By Sleep when it FINALLY comes out. Seriously, how does it take 9 months to translate a mainstream game? They originally had it to release on June 1st and have now postponed it until September. I REALLY shouldn't have looked at some videos on Youtube, ZOMG XEHANORT IS ACTUALLY...(no heart/another)....just about the only thing I don't know is why the hell Ven looks exactly like Roxas.
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Re: ... the Kingdom Hearts thread

Postby rmsgrey » Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:24 pm UTC

So, Kingdom Hearts III has been out for a while. I have somewhat mixed feelings about it. I had a lot of hopes that weren't satisfied, but there were also some things that weren't even on my radar, and the story does do the one thing that was consistently promised - it wraps up Xehanort's story. On the gameplay front, the general running around and routine combat are generally fun, there are some interesting mini-games (and some dull ones), there's ample collecting, the gummi ship has evolved yet further, world-specific companions now add to the party rather than displacing Donald and/or Goofy, and there's a whole lot of flash that happens all over the screen.

Deeper (and more spoilery) thoughts:

Story:
Spoiler:
The pacing is way off - there's some plot early on, then Sora goes to make a grand tour of the game's Disney worlds, with cut-scenes after each world that mostly just mark time, then, once the Disney worlds are out of the way, Sora finally gets allowed to go do something relevant to the plot, and then the plot rushes forward. Some things happen in the Disney worlds - the Organization members get introduced, though that's mostly for the benefit of those who haven't played the rest of the series - but you could pretty much skip everything from Twilight Town to Aqua's rescue without noticeable change to the plot.

Sora's reason for making the Grand Tour is never resolved - Sora's mission is to regain the Power of Waking before he can do anything useful, so he's wandering around visiting random Disney worlds because they're available. Periodically he'll say he wants to go try to rescue Aqua from the Realm of Darkness only to be told he can't go until he regains the Power of Waking. Then Sora runs out of Disney worlds, says, yet again, that he wants to go try to rescue Aqua, and is told to go for it - the only thing that's changed is that they've lost track of Riku and Mickey who've gone to the Realm of Darkness... And then, after Sora successfully saves Riku and rescues Aqua, and then Aqua and Sora go to Castle Oblivion and Aqua restores it to being the Land of Departure, we discover that Sora had the Power of Waking all along, so there was no reason for him to have gone looking for it in the first place.

The time-frame is a little unclear. We know there were about ten years between BBS and KH1, and a year between Sora losing his heart and Roxas rejoining him. An unknown time passes between the end of KH2 and Jiminy looking at his Journals to start coded, but coded can't take that long, it doesn't seem like there's much time that passes between coded and DDD, and KH3 picks up right where DDD ends. Officially, it's about a year from KH2 to KH3 (so 2 years from KH1 to KH3), but references to the passage of time are pretty vague and/or contradictory.

There are a number of things that are clearly just there to set up things for the future. For the most part, the Organization gets satisfying endings, and, overall, aside from the pacing issues, while the story isn't perfect, I'm okay with it.


World by world:
Spoiler:
Olympus finally gets around to telling the story of Hercules. It makes a decent tutorial. It would be nice to have a Coliseum again, but that's about the only issue with this world.

Twilight Town kinda returns, but it's seen a massive rebuilding effort for what's been, in universe, maybe a year since Sora last visited. We only get to visit Tram Common, the Woods, and the outside of the Mansion, plus the new Sewer zone. The break in the wall that connected Tram Common to the Woods no longer exists. Instead, the exit that used to lead to the Sandlot instead leads to the Sewer which, in turn, leads to the Woods, about where you entered them through the gap in the wall. Also, the enclosed courtyard on the South wall of Tram Common is no longer enclosed - the buildings around two sides of it have been removed, so, rather than the narrow stairs down, there's broad stairs down around two sides of it. It would have been nice to have the geography more consistent with KH2/Days and even more so to be able to revisit the Usual Spot and the Station (particularly with the potential to scale the Clocktower). As it is, Twilight Town feels a little underdone, though it is well populated with incidental NPCs.

Toy Box and Monstropolis are both pretty good. They're using the setting, rather than directly repeating the plot of a movie. Apparently, Pixar has said that the events are also in canon for their respective franchises. Toy Box lets you run around in mechs, which is fun. Monstropolis has Unversed rather than Heartless, which is okay. Young Xehanort and Vanitas are reasonable foils, and the Pixar characters get to be the ones to "defeat" them (Woody gives a speech at Young Xehanort, while Sulley disposes of Vanitas).

Kingdom of Corona is a movie-retread, with a number of key scenes omitted, so things mostly make sense if you don't know the movie, but there are some holes, and you'll get a lot more out of it if you are familiar with the movie already. You get to spend some time hanging out with Flynn and Rapunzel, and there are some nice touches early that help you connect with them (particularly Rapunzel).

Arendelle is another movie-retread, but this time only a couple of key scenes actually happen on camera (including two musical numbers). I'm not a huge fan of this world, partly because you never really engage with the movie plot - you chat with Elsa briefly, but don't change the fact she's running away; you interact with Anna, Olaf, Sven and Kristoff, but only to escort them up the mountain; you team up with Marshmallow to rescue Elsa, but only end up mopping up Hans's Heartless after Anna's already saved Elsa. Meanwhile, your quest for most of the world is to climb the mountain to talk to Elsa - twice you make it to the top, only to get chucked off by a cutscene, and then decide to head down the mountain to talk to Elsa, and then reach her and the world ends before you get to talk to her. You get given a photo-quest when you arrive in the world to take a photograph of the Ice Palace, but, despite making it there twice, you never get the chance to take a photo until you return to the world after having completed it. On the other hand, I do like that Larxene is right, and successfully keeps Sora from ruining things by butting in.

100 Acre Wood is present. It feels like it's mostly there to tick a box. The mini-game (and there is just the one, though it comes with variants) is okay, but I much prefer the broader range of games from KH1/KH2, even if they're not individually as good.

The Caribbean is one of my favourite worlds this time around. It could almost be a stand-alone game in its own right. The plot is complete gibberish - it just about makes sense if you're familiar with the movies - but even there you need to squint at it. The great crab hunt is okay, the ship-sailing and combat is fun, and the island exploration has its moments, but the whole thing as a contrast to the rest of the game makes a refreshing change, and it's at least competently done.

San Fransokyo feels a bit short, but very wide - the obvious comparison is with Spiderman - a mostly open (if small) city to explore. The ensemble cast each get their moments to shine. It's a little disappointing to get a dark Riku rather than data Riku given the similarity of Darkubes to Bug Blocks. I do like the story here.

Keyblade Graveyard and the cutscenes leading into it have some issues - there's a lot of ludonarrative dissonance in there, like when you get to play as Aqua, completely thrash Vanitas, then the moment the cutscene starts, Vanitas curb-stomps Aqua. Then Terra-Xehanort demonstrates that he's massively powerful and can face 7 Keyblade wielders (three of them Masters) without breaking a sweat - Sora's the only Keyblade wielder to do anything against him, and his attack is completely shut down - it takes Goofy to be able to make him pause, and then Donald's kamikaze desperation move to actually defeat(?) him. And then, having defeated the KH3 equivalent of KH2's 1000 Heartless battle, the survivors of Terra-Xehanort's attack get killed by a Shadow-swarm - the sort of enemy Sora, Donald and Goofy handled way back in Twilight Town, near the start of the game, and Riku, Aqua and Mickey have faced at various times in the Realm of Darkness (where they're supposedly stronger).

The Final World. This is cool. My only reservation is with the stars being so missable - particularly the Namine scene. The whole bit with collecting Soras is interesting - showcasing all of Sora's animations. The Lich battles, on the other hand, overstay their welcome. The Lich isn't particularly difficult, but it is annoying.

Keyblade Graveyard reprise. Firstly, it's confusing whether people remember/realise that there's been a time-loop here. If you missed Namine in TFW, then having Lingering Will turn up is also completely out of nowhere. Apparently he takes a lot out of Terra-Xehanort since Aqua and Ventus can hold their own against him and Vanitas later. The whole Light of the Past bit is legitimately awesome, even if it's still dubious that the great Shadow-Swarm is really beyond the powers of the 9 Guardians without their help. And then the heroes are surrounded and faced by overwhelming odds for the fourth time, only to be saved by a miracle yet again, partly to give Yen Sid an opportunity to shine, but mostly to strip Donald and Goofy away so Sora can team up with various people in the upcoming sequence. And then things get good - I really like the Clashes, both as a solid boss rush, and with the individual cutscenes (which don't quite make sense, but I'm willing to forgive having the other enemies step back and take a breather off-screen rather than interrupting Sora's conversations with their fallen comrades). Having everyone get their moment of closure and Sora getting to "save" most of them is something I really like, and there's clearly some setup for the future with several people finally remembering things they would have known all along if only Nomura had planned this far ahead way back when they were first being introduced.

Scala Ad Caelum feels like a major missed opportunity - or, possibly, something being saved for a later reveal. There's just enough revealed to establish that it's a very important world, with a story behind it, but nothing is explored - it just serves as a boss arena.


Side quests:
Spoiler:
Cooking is okay, though the ingredient hints get annoying after a while. My biggest beef is that there's a lot of load-times between minigames that last, what? 5 seconds? 10? And even more load time on the way in and out of the Bistro. I'd be a lot happier with it if it was more streamlined in terms of getting from "I'm at a save point and wonder whether I have enough ingredients to make something?" to cooking something (or not cooking) and if you could retry a failed attempt with less wait time.

Lucky Emblems are a nice game-long side-quest. There are times when it would be nice to have Donald and/or Goofy actually follow through on their promise and "point out the next one", and times when it would be nice if they actually pointed it out in a more useful manner than just "it's somewhere near wherever I was when the sound file triggered"...

The Flantastic Seven, I'm not so sure about - the idea of having the minigames is fine, but having limited amounts of unique ingredients as the reward is a little irritating if you botch a cooking attempt with them. Some of the minigames are more irritating than others. And there's a significant load time between failing and retrying.

The whole Gummi Ship side of the game is significantly expanded. Photographing the constellations is fine, collecting the treasure spheres is good, the encounters/battles are the equivalent of the Gummi missions from KH2. The two things that I'm less positive about are: the fragment collection, which means either systematically scouring 3D space, or flying around aimlessly hoping to stumble across them; and Gummi space being the main source of Keyblade upgrade materials, through flying around aimlessly destroying random space rocks...

Moogle photo requests are mostly fine - it's annoying that some of them are unlocked at the start of a world, but impossible to capture until after you've completed the world's story - the Ice Palace in Arendelle and the festival in Corona.

Classic Kingdom games, I've not yet got around to trying, but they look like fun - I played a number of Game & Watch games back in the day, and I've seen play-throughs of them.


Final Fantasy:
Spoiler:
There are shop moogles. There's a quasi Versus XIII in Verum Rex. Seifer and sidekicks get mentioned in background chatter in Twilight Town. Some constellations in the Gummi Ship portions are named for Final Fantasy enemies. There's a cactuar statue in Toy Box. Unless I'm forgetting something, that's it for Final Fantasy characters in KH3. It would have been nice to get some more references to characters that previously played a major part in the series' plot. After all, not only have the FF characters disappeared from Twilight Town, they're also conspicuously absent from Radiant Garden (where Ienzo has taken over the computer room and the Hollow Bastion Restoration Committee has entirely disappeared) and Destiny Islands (where Sora, Kairi and Riku's childhood companions have apparently given up on the island over the last year or two...).

My cynical theory is that they didn't want to include more controversial FF characters like Lightning, Hope, Vaan, Penelo, etc - and XV was too recent to draw from - but also didn't want to draw attention to their omission by including classic characters (let alone introducing more old favourites).


The Kairi thing:
Spoiler:
Kairi is completely screwed over in the narrative (yet again) - she finally gets to wield a Keyblade, but when Xemnas grabs her, she puts up less fight than Belle did against Xaldin back in KH2. And then Master Xehanort casually "kills" her because he thinks Sora isn't trying hard enough... Even granted that she had to be "killed" in order to set Sora up for the next game, she could have put up a bit more of a fight in the process.


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