Bioshock Infinite

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Ralith The Third
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Re: Bioshock Infinite

Postby Ralith The Third » Tue Apr 02, 2013 6:13 pm UTC

Spoiler:
It's foreshadowed in some of the harder-to-find voxophones. One references "What happens to the man after he has been baptised? The old man just goes away" or something like that that in retrospect fits into the ending. Couple others, too.
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Re: Bioshock Infinite

Postby omgryebread » Tue Apr 02, 2013 6:23 pm UTC

There was foreshadowing for the ending, it's just impossible to catch without having seen the ending already.

Spoiler:
Booker not knowing about Columbia (he's from a different world, one where he didn't create Columbia), and a lot of the Voxphones. Comstock's stuff about his baptism hints at it heavily. Even Booker seems to realize subconsciously that the debt he's paying isn't gambling debt but towards Anna. Especially notable in the voxphone he leaves while dying.


Chen wrote:
Spoiler:
That does seem to lead to a pretty bad grandfather paradox (since he needed Elizabeth FROM Columbia to take him back to the baptism place to drown him) but hey most time travel stories have this problem so I tend to let it go.


Spoiler:
Elizabeth's powers extend beyond just normal time traveling stuff though. She appears capable of manipulating them directly, it seems implied that the Vox Populi started winning in one timeline because she wanted it to happen and created that timeline. And older-Elizabeth was altering timelines that weren't her own.

Not to mention there are things constant across the universes and things unstuck entirely from the timelines. So you could kind of explain the ending by saying that Elizabeth forced the drowning to occur for every single baptised Comstock regardless of what happens in that timeline or any other timeline.

The first Elizabeth is also never shown to disappear. You could argue the character still exists like the Luteces, outside of time and unaffected by what happens in any timeline. I'm not a fan of that, because it lessens the emotional impact of Elizabeth's actions at the end killing DeWitt, Comstock, and effectively herself, leaving behind only a timeline with an unbaptised DeWitt and Anna.



General thoughts: The gameplay was solid but somehow shallow. It wasn't really standout combat. The vigors were kinda boring honestly. Several were functionally similiar crowd control. The single damage oriented vigor was quite easily outshone by guns. Bucking Bronco let you shut down roomfuls of enemies and pick them off at your leisure. I'm hoping hard mode introduces more depth, but I can't imagine anything being more effective than just spamming crowd control and lots of bullets.

On the story:

Spoiler:
Overall it was excellent. The time travel was confusing but ultimately not the point anyway. It served as an excellent backdrop for the three main characters and their story. I liked the ending a lot.

The one quibble I had with the story was the political plotline. It balanced the factions by making both comically evil. That's much less interesting than a balanced storyline where both sides are morally ambiguous or good in concept but hopelessly flawed. But then again, the political story is only a broader setting for the time-travel story which is only the framework for the moral and personal drama of Book, Comstock and Elizabeth.
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Re: Bioshock Infinite

Postby Ralith The Third » Tue Apr 02, 2013 6:36 pm UTC

One could make the argument that
Spoiler:
the political groups being so melodramatic was because of Elizabeth directly affecting the timelines, and pushing them to be that way from her own conceptions, sort of like what happened with Lady Comstock
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Re: Bioshock Infinite

Postby ProZac » Tue Apr 02, 2013 6:36 pm UTC

Ralith The Third wrote:
Spoiler:
It's foreshadowed in some of the harder-to-find voxophones. One references "What happens to the man after he has been baptised? The old man just goes away" or something like that that in retrospect fits into the ending. Couple others, too.

Spoiler:
I think one of the major ones is the war museum part. If Comstock is Booker, Slate is a little incorrect about "Comstock rewriting his own history."

omgryebread wrote:
Spoiler:
The first Elizabeth is also never shown to disappear. You could argue the character still exists like the Luteces, outside of time and unaffected by what happens in any timeline. I'm not a fan of that, because it lessens the emotional impact of Elizabeth's actions at the end killing DeWitt, Comstock, and effectively herself, leaving behind only a timeline with an unbaptised DeWitt and Anna.


Spoiler:
I know it didn't show the final Elizabeth disappearing, and there was that bit after the credits... but I think it was implied that Booker had to end his life before the baptism took place. Timelines diverge at the point of the baptism with "The one who walked away" and "The one who was baptized". Killing Comstock wouldn't work because he could jump universes and always cause problems. As such, the only way to prevent him was for him to never exist, therefore, Booker dying before the baptism 'split' could ever happen. I suppose this would leave options for universes where Booker never went to the baptism in the first place...

Finally,
Spoiler:
mostly on gameplay, but spoilers so I can use scenario examples. I hate when games imply a sense of urgency... but still give you an area (or worse, actually put things in that area) to explore/find. The point when Elizabeth runs away from you (and eventually gets grabbed), the part where she's in the tower getting tortured: These are moments where I want to play the game "in character" and just barrel through enemies and go as fast as possible... but pragmatic me is like "She's fine, all scripted, I need to collect these Silver Eagles, hot dogs, salts, upgrades, etc first"

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Re: Bioshock Infinite

Postby SlyReaper » Tue Apr 02, 2013 6:41 pm UTC

Spoiler:
While this game is about alternate realities, are there no realities where Booker gets baptised and doesn't turn into a power-mad bastard?
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Re: Bioshock Infinite

Postby ProZac » Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:25 pm UTC

SlyReaper wrote:
Spoiler:
While this game is about alternate realities, are there no realities where Booker gets baptised and doesn't turn into a power-mad bastard?

Spoiler:
Certainly. But infinite possible realities and all that. The only way to prevent infinite possibilities though is to prevent it from even being an possibility in the first place.

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Re: Bioshock Infinite

Postby ArgonV » Thu Apr 04, 2013 8:04 pm UTC

I don't really have a problem with the ending, since
Spoiler:
the implied grandfather paradox might be undone. Because in the end, you see every other Elizabeth/Anna dissappear, except for yours. So maybe she's a inter-universal constant, like the Luteces. That'd mean only the Bookers that accepted the baptism and became the Comstocks get killed and the other can have somewhat of a happy ending.


What confused me more:
Spoiler:
are they traversing universes or merging them? Let's take the first instance, looking for Chen Lin. As soon as you travel through the tear, the soldiers killed previously are in a Schrödinger state so to speak, being alive but remembering being dead. This is written off to the tears, because they were dead in the parallel universe you left. However, given how these multiverses appear to be handled in the game (every decision creates a different multiverse), shouldn't there have been plenty of multiverses were these particular soldiers are long dead already? Yet they suffered no ill effects before the tear, just after you went through. But they were pretty far away.

Booker getting nosebleeds and alternate memories makes sense, since he actively travels through the tear and his two selves superimpose, being the dead hero of the Vox and being the alive rescuer of Elizabeth. Elizabeth herself probably is pretty much exempt, being the catalyst and all. However, the soldiers never travel through the tear, so how come they remember being dead?

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Re: Bioshock Infinite

Postby emceng » Thu Apr 04, 2013 8:34 pm UTC

Don't want any spoilers, but have to ask a question. So spoiler for maybe 5 minutes into the game.
Spoiler:
What's the deal with posession? Some times it will take a turret and make it permanently on your side. Usually(70%+) it wears off after what seems like an extremely short amount of time(20-30 seconds?)

I have the first upgrade that allows you to possess people. I've gotten quite a ways in(18 of the video view-scope things used).
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Re: Bioshock Infinite

Postby Koa » Thu Apr 04, 2013 11:36 pm UTC

ArgonV wrote:What confused me more:
Spoiler:
are they traversing universes or merging them? Let's take the first instance, looking for Chen Lin. As soon as you travel through the tear, the soldiers killed previously are in a Schrödinger state so to speak, being alive but remembering being dead. This is written off to the tears, because they were dead in the parallel universe you left. However, given how these multiverses appear to be handled in the game (every decision creates a different multiverse), shouldn't there have been plenty of multiverses were these particular soldiers are long dead already? Yet they suffered no ill effects before the tear, just after you went through. But they were pretty far away.

Spoiler:
Merging. If they were traversing, there would be no special links between individuals. The 'other you' in the alternate reality would be someone else; no memory overlaps or anything. I'd guess that the soldiers weren't far enough away, and for a moment they existed in both realities while they merged.


emceng wrote:Don't want any spoilers, but have to ask a question. So spoiler for maybe 5 minutes into the game.
Spoiler:
What's the deal with posession? Some times it will take a turret and make it permanently on your side. Usually(70%+) it wears off after what seems like an extremely short amount of time(20-30 seconds?)

I have the first upgrade that allows you to possess people. I've gotten quite a ways in(18 of the video view-scope things used).

Just a bug I think. They might have figured that the beginning of the game was the hand-holding section where it doesn't wear off, and then much later in development added more turrets to that section but forgot to flag them.

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Re: Bioshock Infinite

Postby omgryebread » Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:53 am UTC

ProZac wrote:
Spoiler:
Certainly. But infinite possible realities and all that. The only way to prevent infinite possibilities though is to prevent it from even being an possibility in the first place.


Spoiler:
Maybe not. There are constants. There are no universes where Booker goes to Columbia and flips a tails, for example. It's quite possible that every baptised Booker becomes Comstock.
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Re: Bioshock Infinite

Postby emceng » Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:46 pm UTC

Koa wrote:
emceng wrote:Don't want any spoilers, but have to ask a question. So spoiler for maybe 5 minutes into the game.
Spoiler:
What's the deal with posession? Some times it will take a turret and make it permanently on your side. Usually(70%+) it wears off after what seems like an extremely short amount of time(20-30 seconds?)

I have the first upgrade that allows you to possess people. I've gotten quite a ways in(18 of the video view-scope things used).

Just a bug I think. They might have figured that the beginning of the game was the hand-holding section where it doesn't wear off, and then much later in development added more turrets to that section but forgot to flag them.


Except that doesn't explain what I've seen. First turret I hit didn't stay posessed. One slightly farther on did. Then the rest hadn't so I figured maybe it was supposed to be a limited time only. Then I just ran into one near the boardwalk that stayed posessed.
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Re: Bioshock Infinite

Postby Enokh » Wed Apr 10, 2013 2:20 pm UTC

ArgonV wrote:I don't really have a problem with the ending, since
Spoiler:
the implied grandfather paradox might be undone. Because in the end, you see every other Elizabeth/Anna dissappear, except for yours. So maybe she's a inter-universal constant, like the Luteces. That'd mean only the Bookers that accepted the baptism and became the Comstocks get killed and the other can have somewhat of a happy ending.




Spoiler:
Except it's not really "our" Elizabeth, right? She doesn't have the bird/cage pendant on, and when Booker turns around and sees her at the last scene he interrupts what he's saying with "Wait. You're not. . you're not. . .who are you?" and starts saying it before the second Elizabeth comes into view.

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Re: Bioshock Infinite

Postby Vaniver » Sat Apr 13, 2013 2:02 pm UTC

Thoughts about Bioshock that keep kicking around in my head:

I ought to join a choir.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I enjoyed standing still listening to the music in Bioshock more than much of playing the game, which suggests I ought to focus on gaming as a hobby less and music more.

That also made the parts at the beginning, where Booker is all "grump grump I hate preachers and pilgrims," much more grating.

Something that I never figured out:
Spoiler:
How is Elizabeth so well socialized? Who taught her how to talk? I mean, children have been locked away in rooms without human contact or raised by animals that don't talk before, and the results aren't pretty.
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Re: Bioshock Infinite

Postby Ralith The Third » Sat Apr 13, 2013 2:18 pm UTC

Vaniver wrote:Something that I never figured out:
Spoiler:
How is Elizabeth so well socialized? Who taught her how to talk? I mean, children have been locked away in rooms without human contact or raised by animals that don't talk before, and the results aren't pretty.

Spoiler:
When she was young, she could go through tears, and I believe Comstock visited her often, and that she had a *lot* of reading. She has many impractical ideas, as well.
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Re: Bioshock Infinite

Postby emceng » Sun Apr 14, 2013 4:12 am UTC

Finished the game tonight:
Spoiler:
1) Umm, I interpreted the ending differently than you guys I guess. Notice when all the other Elizabeths are disappearing? Music is playing, a note at a time. Each one disappears when I note plays. The scene fades to black with 'your' Elizabeth left, and then a final note plays. To me that implied she also disappeared. This might also explain the very end, with the door. With the 20 something Elizabeth gone, she's destroyed all the other time lines. You're back to a single one, where Dewitt didn't go Bible crazy, who has a kid, and won't give her up.

2) I think the airship fight was bugged for me. They dropped the patriots which were firing at the core, but no soldiers were around after the first few minutes. Basically I ended up sending the bird after airships and such, and easily knocked out the patriots. Then there were guys inside two small rooms near the front of the ship. I couldn't enter the rooms, so could only shoot into them, and the guys just kinda stood there getting shot.

3) I loved that it was an escort mission without every annoying aspect of escort missions

4) I think I missed a few too many voxaphones, because I still didn't entirely get what was going on with the Luteces.

5) The bird wasn't really explained either. Early on I was thinking maybe her mother had gotten brain transported into it or something.

Has anyone tried the 1999 version? Is it cool?
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Re: Bioshock Infinite

Postby Eseell » Sun Apr 14, 2013 4:52 pm UTC

emceng wrote:Finished the game tonight:
Spoiler:
1) Umm, I interpreted the ending differently than you guys I guess. Notice when all the other Elizabeths are disappearing? Music is playing, a note at a time. Each one disappears when I note plays. The scene fades to black with 'your' Elizabeth left, and then a final note plays. To me that implied she also disappeared. This might also explain the very end, with the door. With the 20 something Elizabeth gone, she's destroyed all the other time lines. You're back to a single one, where Dewitt didn't go Bible crazy, who has a kid, and won't give her up.

2) I think the airship fight was bugged for me. They dropped the patriots which were firing at the core, but no soldiers were around after the first few minutes. Basically I ended up sending the bird after airships and such, and easily knocked out the patriots. Then there were guys inside two small rooms near the front of the ship. I couldn't enter the rooms, so could only shoot into them, and the guys just kinda stood there getting shot.

3) I loved that it was an escort mission without every annoying aspect of escort missions

4) I think I missed a few too many voxaphones, because I still didn't entirely get what was going on with the Luteces.

5) The bird wasn't really explained either. Early on I was thinking maybe her mother had gotten brain transported into it or something.

Has anyone tried the 1999 version? Is it cool?

Spoiler:
The Elizabeth at the end, the one that drowns you, is not wearing the correct brooch.
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Re: Bioshock Infinite

Postby Vaniver » Sun Apr 14, 2013 6:17 pm UTC

Spoiler:
emceng wrote:1) Umm, I interpreted the ending differently than you guys I guess. Notice when all the other Elizabeths are disappearing? Music is playing, a note at a time. Each one disappears when I note plays. The scene fades to black with 'your' Elizabeth left, and then a final note plays. To me that implied she also disappeared. This might also explain the very end, with the door. With the 20 something Elizabeth gone, she's destroyed all the other time lines. You're back to a single one, where Dewitt didn't go Bible crazy, who has a kid, and won't give her up.
I interpreted the fade-to-black as "the last Elizabeth disappears" also, but I didn't know what to make of the final scene where Booker is alive and Anna is possibly in the other room.

The baptism choice had to happen before Anna was born (because otherwise Comstock would have had his own daughter), and it only makes sense to kill Comstock by drowning Booker before the Baptism choice (if you could drown just the Comstocks after the baptism, then you wouldn't need to drown Booker. Is that what the ending was supposed to be?). So Booker still alive, and knowing the name Anna, the primary interpretation left is "there aren't any Comstocks, and thus no Elizabeths," but that's not a satisfying interpretation.
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Re: Bioshock Infinite

Postby Cathode Ray Sunshine » Mon Apr 15, 2013 1:29 am UTC

Maybe it was just me, but I felt the game kind of penalized you in the last battle if you didn't get good weapons by the time you reach it. I think I had the machine gun and the repeater, and for the life of me I couldn't get past that fight. I'm sure the battle wasn't that difficult and I'm just not very good at it, but I wished I had more weapons lying around at that time.


Spoiler:
I thought there would be multiple endings because it's Bioshock, and the game sometimes gave you what I thought were game altering choices, like when you have to choose a necklace with either a bird or a cage, or if you choose to kill the Colonel or not. I also thought it might depend on what path I take to a lighthouse, if I'm not mistaken there were two paths leading to a lighthouse that materialize as you walk, but it's just one ending so it doesn't matter.The songbird dying hit me just as much as the actual ending. Also when I saw we were in Rapture my jaw hit the floor.There were also many things that at first I didn't even get, like the scene at the beach where Elizabeth's dancing they're playing Girls Just Wanna Have Fun! I didn't even pick up on that! I knew the song was in there because it was playing in the part where I discovered Fink's brother who was using the tears to steal music.


There's just SO much stuff in this game to be discovered. However, I must say that even though overall, Infinite is far better than Bioshock 1, I still prefer Bioshock's background story. There were a lot of voice recordings, backstory as to why Rapture was created and its citizens, and as awesome as Columbia was I didn't get that same feeling, but it's not very relevant because the game's main point is Booker and Elizabeth.

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Re: Bioshock Infinite

Postby Koa » Mon Apr 15, 2013 5:36 am UTC

Bioshock 1 has a more cohesive theme and setting. The plasmids are a part of the world that you gain access to, the combat is natural in that you're in a very hostile environment. In Infinite, the vigors feel vestigial and more of a result of some demographic expectations from the series. Columbia and its citizens are never made to be believable or relatable, as you mentioned. They just are.

Then there's the constant gun fights. The game has very powerful imagery, but there's definitely a disconnect if you choose to reflect on the imagery whatsoever and then are thrown into visceral Gears of War-like violence. The mood switch when you kill your first few enemies is almost comical. "Oh, I'm playing a vidya game. BOOM HEADSHOT! EL OH EL" It's like a lot of the deeper elements of the game are, by design, incidental. It's a typical FPS with a very elaborate coat of paint, which mostly worked well with the narrative of Bioshock 1, but not so much here. You can't just reskin a Splicer to be a baton-wielding police officer and expect everything to work out.

I suppose it all comes down to expectations though. I would never play Bioshock for the standard FPS experience. There are plenty of games that do it far better. If I were expecting a corridor shooter it would have gone beyond my expectations, and if it weren't a shooter I might have then been disappointed (or so they might think). As it is, I'm only really disappointed over some of the lost potential due to casting a wide net and playing to the standards, as opposed to letting the narrative breathe into the gameplay more naturally.

Spoiler:
Bioshock Infinite did some of the fights pretty well. I liked the chaos after going through the tears. I liked the museum. Conversely, I thought the songbird airship fight was much too game-y and uninteresting. The ghost bit seemed to be purely about lengthening the game and having a boss fight. It succeeded at that, I guess.

Cathode Ray Sunshine wrote:the scene at the beach where Elizabeth's dancing they're playing Girls Just Wanna Have Fun!

If you choose to wait and let a girl who has been imprisoned her whole life dance for a moment, Booker interrupts every few seconds with "Hey, um, Miss?" "Cut it out!" and etc. Again, I can't tell if 2k Marin wants me to experience a story or get a high score. The answer seems to be both and neither.

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Re: Bioshock Infinite

Postby Vaniver » Mon Apr 15, 2013 2:09 pm UTC

Koa wrote:Columbia and its citizens are never made to be believable or relatable, as you mentioned. They just are.
I had the opposite problem- I thought that the Columbians were too relatable. You basically show up to an awesome functioning city, murder everyone important, and supply weapons to a revolution that will probably destroy everything worthwhile about the city. Why am I supposed to sympathize with Booker, again?
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Re: Bioshock Infinite

Postby SlyReaper » Mon Apr 15, 2013 2:23 pm UTC

Vaniver wrote:
Koa wrote:Columbia and its citizens are never made to be believable or relatable, as you mentioned. They just are.
I had the opposite problem- I thought that the Columbians were too relatable. You basically show up to an awesome functioning city, murder everyone important, and supply weapons to a revolution that will probably destroy everything worthwhile about the city. Why am I supposed to sympathize with Booker, again?

You're not really. But the columbians did shoot first - he's just defending himself. Not his fault everyone decided to turn ridiculously hostile.
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Re: Bioshock Infinite

Postby velkito » Mon Apr 15, 2013 2:25 pm UTC

I've been unable to run it due to it insisting on DX11, and that my PC's on DX10. I'm running Vista, and while there seems to be some obscure workaround, it doesn't seem to work for me. Any suggestions on what to do?

If all DX-related shenanigans fail, any suggestions on how to gorge myself properly on spoilers?

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Re: Bioshock Infinite

Postby Cathode Ray Sunshine » Mon Apr 15, 2013 3:03 pm UTC

Vaniver wrote:
Koa wrote:Columbia and its citizens are never made to be believable or relatable, as you mentioned. They just are.
I had the opposite problem- I thought that the Columbians were too relatable. You basically show up to an awesome functioning city, murder everyone important, and supply weapons to a revolution that will probably destroy everything worthwhile about the city. Why am I supposed to sympathize with Booker, again?


An awesome functioning city that runs on opressing minorities, makes them live in poverty (ok can't remember if shantytown is in some other universe than the one you start in but I believe Fink just paid people with Fink money basically not letting them have any good stuff), tells them they're inferior and once in a while gather them up and throw baseballs at them. Now, I'm not saying that is this a realistic approach, but I understand their motives. As for the revolution, well looking back at it it's clear these people would have stopped at nothing till they completely destroyed everything the city stood for, but I'd say that a peaceful revolution in this case would never happen. Also they did try to kill me first :P

Something I never thought about was, why did the tears appear? I found voxophones where characters such as Fink talk about the tears his brother found, but now that I think of it I thought only Elizabeth was able to see the tears, but seems she's the only one able to interact with them. Also in Bioshock 1 the citizens were so strong because they kept to splice themselves constantly, but in Columbia apart from a couple of enemies, I seem to be the only one able to use vigor related powers, unless I'm misremembering. Seems odd that Fink was able to successfully market them because no one seems to have bought it.

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Re: Bioshock Infinite

Postby Vaniver » Thu Apr 18, 2013 1:03 am UTC

SlyReaper wrote:Not his fault everyone decided to turn ridiculously hostile.
You mean besides attempting to kidnap the equivalent of the President's Daughter?
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Re: Bioshock Infinite

Postby Cathode Ray Sunshine » Thu Apr 18, 2013 11:50 am UTC

But their attacks on you start before you even meet Elizabeth. If I'm not mistaken it all starts at the the raffle, since they see you have the mark of the false shepherd.

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Re: Bioshock Infinite

Postby SlyReaper » Thu Apr 18, 2013 7:56 pm UTC

Zero Punctuation summed it up: you get singled out as the guy who's destined to fuck everyone up, which forces you to fuck everyone up after they all turn on you for being the guy who's going to fuck everyone up. Prophecies are easy when they're self-fulfilling.
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Re: Bioshock Infinite

Postby Vaniver » Fri Apr 19, 2013 2:43 pm UTC

Cathode Ray Sunshine wrote:But their attacks on you start before you even meet Elizabeth. If I'm not mistaken it all starts at the the raffle, since they see you have the mark of the false shepherd.
It starts then, but that mark is significant because Comstock can see the future, and knows that you have the mark and are coming to capture Elizabeth.

SlyReaper wrote:Zero Punctuation summed it up: you get singled out as the guy who's destined to fuck everyone up, which forces you to fuck everyone up after they all turn on you for being the guy who's going to fuck everyone up. Prophecies are easy when they're self-fulfilling.
That's not quite the case- the prophecy is that you'll try to lead Elizabeth astray, which you do try to do, and the mass murder is incidental to that / their sacrifice to try and prevent you from stealing her.
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Re: Bioshock Infinite

Postby folkhero » Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:34 am UTC

Vaniver wrote: Why am I supposed to sympathize with Booker, again?

I don't think you are supposed to, not completely at least. The game reminds you several times that Booker is a violent man with a violent past. He did terrible things at Wounded Knee, was a Pinkerton and became a degenerate gambler. What takes place in the game is kinda a redemptive arc, since the players will (mostly) want to be the good guy with him and do the right thing and all that.
Spoiler:
Which gets to one of the game's major themes: the illusion of choice. The part you mention where you have to supply the Vox with weapons, for me at least, foreshadowed the part where you have to give Ann away. I didn't think it was the right thing to do, but it was the thing I had to do to keep the game moving. I have no idea if that was intentional, but when I got to the Ann part I felt like the game was rubbing my nose in the exact same emotion of feeling trapped that I had during the bit with the Vox guns.
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Re: Bioshock Infinite

Postby kinigget » Sat May 04, 2013 11:02 pm UTC

Xeio wrote:On the ending:
Spoiler:
I feel a bit mixed. I didn't hate it, but think it was a bit too out of left field. Somehow "Oh, yea, you're Comstock, but from a different reality" seems like they could have added some kind of foreshadowing to that (it wasn't so subtle that I missed it, right?). It makes me want to go back over the dialog to see if I missed something, but even the "I'm not you daughter" stuff, clearly Comstock knew she actually was his daughter... right?



Spoiler:
Uh, there was a shit ton of foreshadowing all through the game ( in fact, the very first thing you see on the screen on starting a new game is a quote from Rosalind Lutece about the mind manufacturing memories upon entering an alternate timeline). That said, figuring out what all that foreshadowing actually *means* is rather difficult.
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Re: Bioshock Infinite

Postby Cathode Ray Sunshine » Mon May 06, 2013 6:38 pm UTC

Spoiler:
There's also this voxopohone from Comstock

One man goes into the waters of baptism, a different man comes out, born again. But who is that man who lies submerged? Perhaps that swimmer is both sinner and saint, until he is revealed unto the eyes of man.


There's a lot of foreshadowing though, but I'm only on my second playthrough so I can't name them. There's one though that I do remember, it's after you rescue Elizabeth from the scientists and you decide to go kill Comstock, Booker says "I wouldn't just abandon you" and Elizabeth says "you wouldn't...would you?"

And all the "experiments" performed by the Luteces, like the flip of the coin to see what the outcome would be, along with old Elizabeth's claim that the songbird always stops you, means that the Luteces have been dragging different Bookers throughout realities in order to undo what they'd done. You can also see this with their dialogue in the beginning, Robert says you don't row because you've never helped them row, and Rosalind says all is futile since you don't continue conducting an experiment knowing you've failed.

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Re: Bioshock Infinite

Postby Woopate » Fri May 10, 2013 2:31 am UTC

Does anybody else have trouble playing this game for long sessions? 2 hours of play time and exhausts a part of my brain that few other games tend to, and I have the hints of a headache. I think it has something to do with the sound effects in combat. For this reason I have not yet finished it.

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Re: Bioshock Infinite

Postby Chen » Fri May 10, 2013 11:39 am UTC

Woopate wrote:Does anybody else have trouble playing this game for long sessions? 2 hours of play time and exhausts a part of my brain that few other games tend to, and I have the hints of a headache. I think it has something to do with the sound effects in combat. For this reason I have not yet finished it.


I get this in a lot of third person games. I imagine if you're constantly using the skyhook and/or charge skill it could get pretty bad.

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Re: Bioshock Infinite

Postby AvatarIII » Thu May 16, 2013 12:58 pm UTC

Anyone have any tips for the final battle? the rest of the game was easy, I can't seem to wrap my head around the correct tactic for this, i have probably put 4 hours or so into repeatedly trying to beat it, I am stubbornly refusing to lower difficulty.

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Re: Bioshock Infinite

Postby emceng » Thu May 16, 2013 1:10 pm UTC

Just do what I did - have the game bug out on you and have it be the easiest fight in the game. But sorry, can't really help you with that one, due to forementioned bug.
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Re: Bioshock Infinite

Postby Chen » Thu May 16, 2013 1:13 pm UTC

Mind Control works WONDERS on this fight. Using it on the biggest guys you can not only gets them to help you BUT insta kills them afterwards. It makes the fight significantly easier.

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Re: Bioshock Infinite

Postby AvatarIII » Thu May 16, 2013 1:38 pm UTC

Chen wrote:Mind Control works WONDERS on this fight. Using it on the biggest guys you can not only gets them to help you BUT insta kills them afterwards. It makes the fight significantly easier.


I'm an idiot, why the hell did I not think of that! Thanks!

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Re: Bioshock Infinite

Postby Chen » Thu May 16, 2013 2:05 pm UTC

Also don't use Songbird except on the big blimps. You always feel like "it'll recharge in time" and the minute after you use it, BAM another blimp appears.

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Re: Bioshock Infinite

Postby AvatarIII » Thu May 16, 2013 7:25 pm UTC

Chen wrote:Also don't use Songbird except on the big blimps. You always feel like "it'll recharge in time" and the minute after you use it, BAM another blimp appears.


yeah i think i have that aspect nailed, it was just not failing the mission i was having trouble with,

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Re: Bioshock Infinite

Postby Chen » Thu May 16, 2013 7:28 pm UTC

The mission is still pretty tough though. I found ammo was a major problem during it. The time I completed it successfully I had to kill a Patriot with melee attacks because I was out of ammo AND vigors. Fortunately it was attacking the core and not me so I didn't die. Of course Elizabeth tossed me a rifle precisely the moment AFTER I killed it....thanks dear :P

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Re: Bioshock Infinite

Postby folkhero » Fri May 17, 2013 12:06 am UTC

I used Murder of Crows more than the other vigors in the final battle IIRC. The initial crowd control is nice, obviously, and if you have it upgraded, the chaining is very good:
guy getting pecked-->dead guy--> trap-->guy getting pecked
It has a very good bang/buck ratio if used correctly.

Second most used was Shock Jockey to stun the Mechanized Patriots.

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