The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Bacon Workshop

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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby Vaniver » Wed Jan 04, 2012 8:08 pm UTC

Halted Stream Camp, just north of Whiterun, is another location for Transmute.

emceng wrote:Ok question time: are they always in the same place?
Shouts are always in the same place.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby Shivahn » Wed Jan 04, 2012 8:55 pm UTC

I have just learned, through playing as my assassin, that things count as cleared when the head person is dead. Regardless of whether or not anyone even started to detect me, or I touched anything else.

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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby gmalivuk » Wed Jan 04, 2012 8:58 pm UTC

Yeah, they're always the same, and you'll always learn the three words weakest to strongest regardless of the order you go to the three places that have those words.

Also, you can get new shouts throughout the game by
Spoiler:
talking to the Greybeards, and by shouting in a settlement, which sometimes leads to a "letter from a friend" from a courier. The letter suggests a place you should check out to unlock a power only available to Dragonborn.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby Lostdreams » Wed Jan 04, 2012 9:13 pm UTC

Listen,
Spoiler:
I need to ask you to stop. That... shouting is making people nervous.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby emceng » Wed Jan 04, 2012 9:58 pm UTC

Gaaaah. The suspense is killing me, but I told myself no spoilers! I wait until after I'm done with the game to read about the stuff I missed - like the +300% speed boots of blindness.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby Jahoclave » Wed Jan 04, 2012 10:05 pm UTC

I had a no spoilers policy up until I couldn't find the exit to a dungeon and had a massive need for the
Spoiler:
thieves guild. What, I couldn't go five minutes in the game without stealing stuff. Honestly, I've hardly gotten anything done in 19 hours because I'm too busy stealing and selling everything to NPCs who need to have half a million gold to make my life easier. I really should just do things systematically room by room, house by house, city by city.

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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby Magnanimous » Wed Jan 04, 2012 10:22 pm UTC

So I've concluded that this quarter won't be too challenging and I'll have a decent amount of free time. Time to buy this, finally. My first character's gonna be Bing Bong The Archer, then I'll probably get creative.
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I played both Morrowind and Oblivion with bashing mods, and it just made a lot of sense... I'm rather disappointed that bashing isn't in Skyrim.

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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby SirBryghtside » Wed Jan 04, 2012 10:48 pm UTC

Are there even lockpicking spells in Skyrim? I haven't found any yet...
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby An Enraged Platypus » Wed Jan 04, 2012 11:29 pm UTC

SirBryghtside wrote:Are there even lockpicking spells in Skyrim? I haven't found any yet...


No, which is a shame.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby Shivahn » Wed Jan 04, 2012 11:50 pm UTC

There's the Tower stone, but...

Yeah, not worth it.

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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby gmalivuk » Wed Jan 04, 2012 11:56 pm UTC

Doesn't that let you automatically open anything up to Expert? How is that not worth it?
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby Box Boy » Wed Jan 04, 2012 11:59 pm UTC

gmalivuk wrote:Doesn't that let you automatically open anything up to Expert? How is that not worth it?

It's only once a day and you have to forefit the other stones - so to me it doesn't really seem worth it, and it gets worse as your skill levels up (and get the perks).
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby Shivahn » Thu Jan 05, 2012 12:09 am UTC

Yeah, I guess it could be worth it for some people. It's just that I, personally, have never run out of lockpicks and my number keeps growing indefinitely, and on top of that it's once a day, and the biggest thing is that you can't have another stone active while using it, so you're essentially getting one free opening of a not-hardest-category lock once per day at the opportunity cost of a minute of invisibility, or five seconds of paralysis on an opponent, or 15% increase in all skill increase rates, etc.

The only time it seems worth it to me is early-game when your lockpicking skill is terrible and you don't have many picks, but that's also the time when the skill boost stones are really nice.

Also, upon reading the wiki page on the Ritual stone, I've decided I need to try that out. Because it looks sort of amazing.

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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby Weeks » Thu Jan 05, 2012 1:49 am UTC

I like the Steed stone.

Too bad it doesn't help against Draugr Death Overlords with their Ebony bows and Ebony arrows.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby Weeks » Thu Jan 05, 2012 6:47 am UTC

The Ballad of Todd Howard.

No more needs to be said.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby Amnesiasoft » Thu Jan 05, 2012 7:14 am UTC

Shivahn wrote:Also, upon reading the wiki page on the Ritual stone, I've decided I need to try that out. Because it looks sort of amazing.

Oh it is. The best part is, when the spell ends with it, the corpses don't disintegrate like that single corpse reanimation spell.

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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby Magnanimous » Thu Jan 05, 2012 7:35 am UTC

Weeks wrote:The Ballad of Todd Howard.

No more needs to be said.

The last five seconds were hilarious. Not to mention the guy spinning on the bed.

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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby Jahoclave » Thu Jan 05, 2012 8:46 am UTC

My attempt to backstab a bear ended in miserable failure. You still lose this round mr. bear, but one day! ONE DAY I WILL STAB YOU FROM BEHIND!

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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby An Enraged Platypus » Thu Jan 05, 2012 10:41 am UTC

The Lord stone is my favourite. Delicious, delicious damage reduction.

Has anyone else found picking more than one offensive ability useless? Like taking one handed and bows - all things being equal, you get 50 bow and 50 sword when you ought to have 100 bow or sword.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby SirBryghtside » Thu Jan 05, 2012 10:55 am UTC

Yeah, I always use Tower, across all TES games (apart from Oblivion, where it was sucky). I usually go fighter, so that fixed it for Morrowind, and in Skyrim I don't want to level up too quickly by having too much lockpicking.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby emceng » Thu Jan 05, 2012 1:55 pm UTC

An Enraged Platypus wrote:The Lord stone is my favourite. Delicious, delicious damage reduction.

Has anyone else found picking more than one offensive ability useless? Like taking one handed and bows - all things being equal, you get 50 bow and 50 sword when you ought to have 100 bow or sword.


Nope. I like to be able to vary what I can do. I don't do both two handed and 1 handed weapons, but I still use bows when appropriate, or destruction spells when appropriate. Yes, I'm diluting the prowess of one. It gives me a more balanced character, and more fun things to do. You also have the issue of outleveling other skills. Let's say you want to get your archery up after your 1 handed is 100. At that point you have leveled quite a bit, so your archery damage is very low and it will take forever to kill things.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby Adam H » Thu Jan 05, 2012 4:34 pm UTC

The Steed Stone is obviously the correct stone to choose. :)
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby Lostdreams » Thu Jan 05, 2012 5:15 pm UTC

Adam H wrote:The Steed Stone is obviously the correct stone to choose. :)


Modifying carry weight was my only console experience and I didn't try it until I cleared out a few of the 3 area draugr-filled ruins and dwemer ruins. I collect books but I can't remember which ones I have at my house. Between picking up books and all of the rest of my hoarding tendencies I got tired of trying to manage my inventory every 3 minutes or make multiple trips back and forth to the dungeon I was clearing. It was killing my fun.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby An Enraged Platypus » Thu Jan 05, 2012 5:23 pm UTC

Just started a new character - trying an Argonian with Conjuration, Restoration, Alteration, Archery, and One Handed as a focus. The idea being that I have the utility magic schools and conventional weapon offense. It's pretty fun so far.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby Lostdreams » Thu Jan 05, 2012 5:38 pm UTC

If you have the 2 summons at a time perk in conjuration, you don't have to do anything but stand there and occasionally recast them. It gets boring fast.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby CorruptUser » Thu Jan 05, 2012 6:14 pm UTC

Lostdreams wrote:If you have the 2 summons at a time perk in conjuration, you don't have to do anything but stand there and occasionally recast them. It gets boring fast.


Combine it with the 100 sneak perk. While the enemy is distracted, backstab them into the oblivion your minions spawned from.

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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby mosc » Thu Jan 05, 2012 7:17 pm UTC

It's actually pretty close to impossible to engage stealth AFTER combat has started. The top sneak perk is supposed to achieve this, but it doesn't work too well. Basically, once an attacker has seen you once, they don't seem to care if you go invisible behind a rock and move completely silently, they still know exactly where you are.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby Koa » Thu Jan 05, 2012 7:44 pm UTC

mosc wrote:It's actually pretty close to impossible to engage stealth AFTER combat has started. The top sneak perk is supposed to achieve this, but it doesn't work too well. Basically, once an attacker has seen you once, they don't seem to care if you go invisible behind a rock and move completely silently, they still know exactly where you are.

It's not really supposed to be used for disappearing. It's for doing attacks with a stealth multiplier while already spotted.
Though, I don't think it works when you have a companion that is fighting your target. Even when I'm not detected or use the 100 skill perk, I never get the multiplier. I doubt it'd work with conjuration either.

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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby Adam H » Thu Jan 05, 2012 9:26 pm UTC

Koa wrote:
mosc wrote:It's actually pretty close to impossible to engage stealth AFTER combat has started. The top sneak perk is supposed to achieve this, but it doesn't work too well. Basically, once an attacker has seen you once, they don't seem to care if you go invisible behind a rock and move completely silently, they still know exactly where you are.

It's not really supposed to be used for disappearing. It's for doing attacks with a stealth multiplier while already spotted.
Though, I don't think it works when you have a companion that is fighting your target. Even when I'm not detected or use the 100 skill perk, I never get the multiplier. I doubt it'd work with conjuration either.
I've had the opposite experiences. I haven't been able to get a stealth multiplier with the 100 sneak perk while already spotted like you say, and I am almost positive I've gotten multipliers while my companions engaged them. Though now that I think about it, my assassin character didn't really ever have companions except when an NPC would accompanied on a quest, so maybe that's what I'm thinking of.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby SecondTalon » Thu Jan 05, 2012 9:30 pm UTC

I've gotten better with the 100 Sneak Perk. You basically need to be about 30-40 feet away from the enemy, and run behind some line of sight blocking terrain, sneak, remain sneaking and move the fuck away from there, still keeping totally or mostly behind line of sight blocking terrain. Get about 50-60 feet from where you were, and the enemy should run to where you hid and start looking for you from there.

They've got a bonus to spotting you, I guess, as they'll see you in a heartbeat if you are in their line of sight, but you can outmanuver them that way.. and once they've de-aggro'd from you, you're back to being able to sneak in front of them if it's dark enough.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby Gopher of Pern » Thu Jan 05, 2012 11:34 pm UTC

I'm pretty sure that if your companions are engaging the enemy, you do not get any sneak bonuses whatsoever. I was never discovered, and was shooting arrow after arrow, but I wasn't getting any bonuses to damage, because my companions were busy fighting.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby Koa » Thu Jan 05, 2012 11:43 pm UTC

Adam H wrote:I haven't been able to get a stealth multiplier with the 100 sneak perk while already spotted like you say

Are you using a dagger? The attack rate needs to be fast enough so that you strike while still invisible. I don't need to stay sneaked anymore, I can have someone spot me and then instantly kill them with the perks.

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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby omgryebread » Fri Jan 06, 2012 3:59 am UTC

New character. Master difficulty. No Fortify Restoration loop, but I'll use and abuse enchanting/alchemy normally. No weapons, no conjuration. Minimizing use of Destruction. Really only using Alteration, Illusion and Restoration. Lydia and only Lydia as a companion. I'll probably end up with some perks into stealth. I expect to do a lot of sneaking and using Calm, Fear, and Fury to run away. Dragons and other things immune to effects will be hard, it will be about healing Lydia like crazy and keeping myself alive. Turn Undead should help with the fights against a lot of Draugr, and Paralyze should help against the masses of humans. Random stuff in the wilds will be pathetically easy to either let Lydia kill or run away if she's not there.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby SecondTalon » Fri Jan 06, 2012 4:04 am UTC

Gopher of Pern wrote:I'm pretty sure that if your companions are engaging the enemy, you do not get any sneak bonuses whatsoever. I was never discovered, and was shooting arrow after arrow, but I wasn't getting any bonuses to damage, because my companions were busy fighting.

I've done it, but I can't work out what it is I'm doing differently that gets the sneak bonus and what I'm doing when I'm not.

With arrows, by the way. I can't backstab shit if Lydia is punching it.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby Shivahn » Fri Jan 06, 2012 5:47 am UTC

My sneaky character hit level 22 after 14 or so hours.

It was over 45 hours for my mage. Magic levels up slooow.

(Also, sneak levels up fast. It hit a hundred when the next closest was one handed at about forty.)

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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby Lostdreams » Fri Jan 06, 2012 1:29 pm UTC

Useful crap I've learned:

If you shoot someone with an arrow, they and everyone nearby will begin moving to your location but if you then fire another arrow nearby , they will al walk to that location instead and loiter about until they decide to start moving in your direction. Meanwhile, you can remain still to start dropping aggro or fire an arrow at another target that is busy chasing your second arrow and then fire a fourth one to give them a second "target" to chase, repeating the process.

Another more obvious tip about stealth is to look at your weapon and how shaded it is to tell how concealed you are. I was suprised that even the casted shadows from the "non-wall" structures serve to shadow you. The little details in this game are really amazing.


I found a template for the lockpicking game that may be useful for anyone running into difficulty.

Spoiler:
skyrimlockpicking.jpg


Also, in addition to using the rivets and arrowheads on the left side as markers, if you position yourself next to a patterned surface before you start picking you can use it like the arrowheads. If you can get it to stand up at the right angle and center it, one of the round shields will work for this as well.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby gmalivuk » Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:37 pm UTC

Yeah, I was glad that my first master-level lockpicking attempts were in Dwemmer ruins, because the ornate grille work behind the locks was very helpful in positioning the incredibly minute adjustments that needed to be made. I think my first one only cost me about 15 picks! (Even if you're playing on PC, the 360 controller is immensely helpful for lockpicking, as you can adjust the speed at which you turn the lock and the vibration gives you an extra sensory cue when you're about to break a pick.)

Reading this thread inspired me to start a new game last night, with a purely mage build (the only "weapon" I've currently got is a pickaxe). Though of course I also do as typical with the games on this engine, and console myself some interesting cheats after I've played through vanilla at least once. In this case, I'm giving myself all the perks I'm eligible for, so I can experiment with some skills I don't use often enough to warrant spending any of the perks I actually earn legitimately. In addition, it turns out to be a lot of fun at low levels to reduce the shout cooldown time to 0. I'll probably put this back up as I gain more godlike mage skills, so as not to *completely* break the game, but for now it's rather entertaining to just run around naked and Shout all my enemies to death. (In New Vegas, my third playthrough was a character with absurd stealth who wore no armor and hacked all of her enemies to death with a fire axe.)
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby An Enraged Platypus » Fri Jan 06, 2012 3:01 pm UTC

Sweet deity of your choice, the animation for conjuring dual swords is a work of art.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby emceng » Fri Jan 06, 2012 7:38 pm UTC

Ok, finally got the 2nd word in a shout - and it was for the shout I use the most. Woohoo!

But, now a question. It shows the cooldown as 60, 90. And I haven't really noticed a difference in the shout itself. Do I need to do something different to get more power? What's the longer cooldown mean?
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby Obby » Fri Jan 06, 2012 7:40 pm UTC

When you hold down the button to activate the shout, instead of just pressing it, you activate the second word (or the third if you have it unlocked and hold it long enough) and the longer cooldown.
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