The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Bacon Workshop

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EmptySet
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby EmptySet » Tue Jan 24, 2012 2:50 am UTC

CorruptUser wrote:That's the problem with having NPCs that talk. No matter how much dialogue you add, they will always repeat themselves. Especially when you have to make unique dialogue for hundreds if not thousands of characters.

Fuck you asshole, I've been to the Cloud District more times than you have!


Oh, I hate that guy. You'd think that when someone is wearing a golden circlet set with huge rubies and waving the Staff of Magnus around, he might realise that maaaaybe they're not just a random peasant. Or, you know, that he might notice you constantly running to Dragonsreach to sell your loot to the Jarl's wizard and borrow his enchanting station. Or that he might hear that you're the freaking Thane.

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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby broken_escalator » Tue Jan 24, 2012 5:36 am UTC

I've been replacing my follower with any random person who wants to follow me I find along my travels. That protector lady from Riften was fairly obnoxious, talking about her past journies every time I talk to npcs. So far this orc lady I persuaded to leave her home seems to be the strongest. Then again, she is wearing daedric armor and that special ebony mail, so its hard to compare to the older followers.

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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby An Enraged Platypus » Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:54 am UTC

EmptySet wrote:
CorruptUser wrote:That's the problem with having NPCs that talk. No matter how much dialogue you add, they will always repeat themselves. Especially when you have to make unique dialogue for hundreds if not thousands of characters.

Fuck you asshole, I've been to the Cloud District more times than you have!


Oh, I hate that guy. You'd think that when someone is wearing a golden circlet set with huge rubies and waving the Staff of Magnus around, he might realise that maaaaybe they're not just a random peasant. Or, you know, that he might notice you constantly running to Dragonsreach to sell your loot to the Jarl's wizard and borrow his enchanting station. Or that he might hear that you're the freaking Thane.


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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby gmalivuk » Tue Jan 24, 2012 2:51 pm UTC

not baby Newt wrote:Gave Lydia a staff of summon familiar, was pleasantly surprised when she used it. My own frost atronach summon, perhaps a dog... an army is we. Though small is this dead-end corridor. Darn.
Give her two staffs, have two for yourself, and get the double summoning perk. Then between you there can be 6 extra things fighting, plus maybe a dog.

I think I even had my raised zombie summon a frost atronach once but not totally sure.
Pretty sure raised dead don't raise or summon anything themselves.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby SecondTalon » Tue Jan 24, 2012 3:01 pm UTC

I'm wanting to say Thralls can. But then, I think I recall animating a Draugr ... shit, the S one that spams Frost Atronachs. Anyway, I think I recall it summoning one because I shot it a couple of times and then realized it had an activation prompt thing like your dead do.

But I'm probably mistaken.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby Adam H » Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:16 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:That's the problem with having NPCs that talk. No matter how much dialogue you add, they will always repeat themselves. Especially when you have to make unique dialogue for hundreds if not thousands of characters.
I think it would help to have NPC's mainly say generic things like "Hi", "Thanks", "*grunt*", "Ow", "What?", etc. Have those short ones be the goto response. "Are you a priest?" and "I used to be an adventurer like you..." are cool lines, but they lose their appeal if they're said too often. Whereas I don't think people are going to even notice Guards saying "Hi" every time you walk past them.

Another thing that would improve the voice work is have people cut off mid sentence. They already do it when you interrupt them, so why not do it when you walk out on them? At least have them cut off when they die!

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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby gmalivuk » Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:19 pm UTC

But that would ruin the hilarity of having someone shout "This ends now!" at the very same time as their head is actually coming off.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby Dark567 » Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:30 pm UTC

gmalivuk wrote:But that would ruin the hilarity of having someone shout "This ends now!" at the very same time as their head is actually coming off.

I always imagine them saying after it comes off, in the slight seconds they realize they are decapitated before they die.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby emceng » Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:53 pm UTC

See, I need to find the most annoying follower, convince them to come with me, then take them to the shrine of Boethiah.

I am also a bit annoyed that I only recently found the dialogue option to get accepted by orc strongholds. I freaking saved the cursed one, but other strongholds don't care.

I think someone said it here before too, but I hate most of the people in Markath. When I eventually go on a killing spree, they'll be the first to die. Also - unkillable NPCs -> pretty freaking annoying.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby broken_escalator » Tue Jan 24, 2012 5:01 pm UTC

Out of curiosity, when the enemies say they yield and start fleeing, do they ever actually yield?

When I first started playing I used to sheath my sword.. but then they would just whack me in the face while acting clever that they fooled me into sparing their life momentarily. My understanding of it so far is its just a cowardly trick, but I never rule out the chance that I'm doing something wrong.

For Markath, the only thing that really bugged me was
Spoiler:
when the guards frame you for killing that Talos preist, and they come to take you to jail. I killed their asses but I couldn't figure out how to continue the quest without getting captured. And then when I finally did get captured, I didn't even want to kill madanachadacha. Now everyone keeps mentioning that they saw me with the forsword... despite the fact that I've killed countless forswarn, including madanachadacha and his merry band of misfits.

When Markath's reckoning comes only the orcish blacksmith lady will be spared. Maybe the temple of Dibella too, but mostly because they're so out of the way I'll end up forgetting.

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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby SecondTalon » Tue Jan 24, 2012 5:41 pm UTC

Re : The Forsworn Conspiracy

Spoiler:
The entire thing with the guards capturing you and choosing the "Fight Your Way Out" option seems to be the leading cause of the eternal bug wherein the guards keep trying to arrest you.

Now, maybe I missed some clue somewhere, but at no point did it ever occur to me to kill Mananangabanana. It's only recently after reading various Wikis on it that I became aware that it was an alternative way out - kill everyone in the mine, and Whazisface Silverblood lets you out and gives you a piece of shit ring. Or you escape with everyone and get a kinda nifty Light armor set.
Non-spoiler spoiler - if the guards in the Reach want to arrest you and your only options are to go to jail or fight you way out - go to jail. Seems to cause fewer problems that way.


Anyway, go do the Ring of Namira quest thing, and find out the real story behind a lot of the people in Markarth.
Spoiler:
Bloodiest beef in the Reach indeed.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby Jessica » Tue Jan 24, 2012 5:46 pm UTC

I'm trying to figure out which companion is best to keep with me. I'm dragging the first sell sword from whitehorse around with me. I have no idea if this is a good idea. She has an annoying tendency to rush the thing I'm sniping, but otherwise...

Also are there any npc quests from followers?
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby broken_escalator » Tue Jan 24, 2012 5:55 pm UTC

Usually you have to do a quest or something to get NPCs to turn into followers. Like finding their lost sword, persuading them with speech, or beating the crap out of them with your fists. Some quests have followers, but I've yet to find a follower who gave me a quest after becoming a follower.

Also, I think I did the namira ring quest, but only because a select few NPCs are giving me dialogue options about "Namira's feast". I have no recollection of actually doing this quest though. It might have involved a cave where I took an option to get the hell out of there?

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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby gmalivuk » Tue Jan 24, 2012 5:59 pm UTC

SecondTalon wrote:Re : The Forsworn Conspiracy

Spoiler:
Now, maybe I missed some clue somewhere, but at no point did it ever occur to me to kill Mananangabanana.
No clue for that, much like in Windhelm how there's no indication in the Butcher quest that you can
Spoiler:
talk to the court mage instead of just accusing him based on other people's claims, even though that's the only way that won't involve two more innocents being killed: first the mage himself and then the next Butcher murder, which proves that you got the wrong guy.


In Markarth, I played it straight the first time and then, on my mage playthrough,
Spoiler:
I just killed everyone in the mine and left, on account of still having all my perfectly serviceable spells.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby LaserGuy » Tue Jan 24, 2012 6:56 pm UTC

Jessica wrote:I'm trying to figure out which companion is best to keep with me. I'm dragging the first sell sword from whitehorse around with me. I have no idea if this is a good idea. She has an annoying tendency to rush the thing I'm sniping, but otherwise...

Also are there any npc quests from followers?


There's a wizard in the Riften tavern that you can recruit for 500 gold that I found to be pretty good, at least for the early/middle game, especially since I was playing an archer at the time--I didn't have to worry about accidentally hitting/killing him with my arrows because he'd be blasting things from a distance with lightning bolts. I don't think he ever runs out of magicka either.

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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby emceng » Tue Jan 24, 2012 6:59 pm UTC

Yeah, last night was my first playthrough in Markath.

Spoiler:
The Forsworn seem like a bag of murderous dicks, the Nords heavy handed oppressors. Pretty much said fuck both of them. Kill Macadamach because that gets rid of those idiots. Thinking about killing Thonar Silver-hand and just paying the bounty. Because really, screw him too. Haven't even met the Thane yet.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby SecondTalon » Tue Jan 24, 2012 7:12 pm UTC

emceng wrote:Yeah, last night was my first playthrough in Markath.

Spoiler:
The Forsworn seem like a bag of murderous dicks, the Nords heavy handed oppressors. Pretty much said fuck both of them. Kill Macadamach because that gets rid of those idiots. Thinking about killing Thonar Silver-hand and just paying the bounty. Because really, screw him too. Haven't even met the Thane yet.


The entire thing...
Spoiler:
is just the Civil War in a smaller area. Only instead of far-off Empire trying to rule Skyrim's Nords who've been there for millennia, it's far-off Nord Ideals trying to rule Bretons who have been there for millennia. The Stormcloaks are somehow right in fighting the Empire.. but also right in fighting the Forsworn.

Kinda neat, that little hypocrisy there. All the Reach Bretons really want is to be left alone to practice their ways. Same as the Nords. Some of them are "Fightin' da Powah!"... same as the Nords.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby gmalivuk » Tue Jan 24, 2012 7:37 pm UTC

Though to be fair, traditional Forsworn ways seem to involve rather a lot more human sacrifice and daedra worship than traditional Nord ways...
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby SecondTalon » Tue Jan 24, 2012 7:57 pm UTC

Before we get into the Forsworn throwing in with the Hagravens as a way of trying to level the playing field, the Traditional Nord Way apparently allows for you to kick down the door of your High King's place (The person to whom you've presumably sworn some sort of oath) and kill him in single combat shout him to pieces using abilities from which he cannot defend himself and still be a legitimate contender for the throne.

This is before we get into the rampant alcoholism and boasting of Honor and head-on combat when you're still more likely to use and succeed in battle with "underhanded" (read:Not Dumbass) methods like subterfuge and assassinations and so on... and then pretending like you did it all in a heroic, head-on fight.

/just sayin'
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby folkhero » Tue Jan 24, 2012 8:09 pm UTC

gmalivuk wrote:Though to be fair, traditional Forsworn ways seem to involve rather a lot more human sacrifice and daedra worship than traditional Nord ways...


True, but when I joined the Stormcloaks for the principles of religious freedom and local government over distant rulers it's hard not to feel like a huge hypocrite when you hear the Forsworn's stories
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby mosc » Tue Jan 24, 2012 8:11 pm UTC

More realistic that way. All sides are assholes and self-motivated. Few people are saints, especially amongst those who claim to be.

The forsworn worship hagravens which aren't exactly wholesome creatures or paragons of virtue. They're not much different than daedra worshipers or other of the crazed fanatics that litter every nook and cranny of tamriel. You know, maybe that's how they keep the population steady despite having the ability to cure all diseases and virtually all injuries. There's just something that makes people go ape-shit crazy and uncivilized in the water or somesuch. They'll move out of town and sleep on a bedroll in some shrine or become human cattle to a hagraven for the rest of their lives on a whim. Seems like most kids grow up to be savages. Average income: Blind Faith.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby folkhero » Tue Jan 24, 2012 8:18 pm UTC

mosc wrote:More realistic that way. All sides are assholes and self-motivated. Few people are saints, especially amongst those who claim to be.

I suppose so. After all, who am I to think I can jump into a war without doing anything I might feel bad about latter on?
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby SirBryghtside » Tue Jan 24, 2012 8:25 pm UTC

Isn't a more obvious difference that the Forsworn kill every Nord (or Dovahkiin) they see?

I mean, the Stormcloaks aren't exactly perfect - but they're not that bad. They're not incomparable, and the parallel is quite cool - but there are major differences.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby Lucrece » Tue Jan 24, 2012 8:44 pm UTC

Well, maybe the Forsworn have been radicalized by the transgressions the nords made. How would you believe the nord to behave if THEY had been booted off to some much smaller zone and marginalized culturally?

Are the people that make up the Forsworn the same as they were then?
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby SecondTalon » Tue Jan 24, 2012 8:56 pm UTC

SirBryghtside wrote:Isn't a more obvious difference that the Forsworn kill every Nord (or Dovahkiin) they see?

I mean, the Stormcloaks aren't exactly perfect - but they're not that bad. They're not incomparable, and the parallel is quite cool - but there are major differences.

The Stormcloaks are just getting started. The Forsworn have been doing this for at least the last 25 years.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby mosc » Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:01 pm UTC

Lucrece wrote:Well, maybe the Forsworn have been radicalized by the transgressions the nords made. How would you believe the nord to behave if THEY had been booted off to some much smaller zone and marginalized culturally?

Are the people that make up the Forsworn the same as they were then?

Sure, you can use this type of logic. You can also apply it to the poor mudcrab who is just defending his territory and isn't really a hostile maniac who just wants to kill anything near it. Forsworn are not written nearly as clean as you make it out. They're pretty much crazy cultists trying to reclaim control of the region in an effort to spread their crazy religious cult.

I mean, say what you want about the stormcloaks but they're civilized. At least keeping in mind the limitations of the game vs the lore, they're a whole other level of morally correct from the forsworn.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby doogly » Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:16 pm UTC

Eh, Stormcloaks is still pretty dicks. I was quite pleased to lop off Ulfric's head.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby BlackSails » Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:20 pm UTC

I think it would have been nice if
Spoiler:
The dragonborn were instead a person with the soul of a dragon or some crap like that, and you had the option to side with the dragons

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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby Vaniver » Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:42 pm UTC

SecondTalon wrote:Before we get into the Forsworn throwing in with the Hagravens as a way of trying to level the playing field, the Traditional Nord Way apparently allows for you to kick down the door of your High King's place (The person to whom you've presumably sworn some sort of oath) and kill him in single combat shout him to pieces using abilities from which he cannot defend himself and still be a legitimate contender for the throne.
Challenging leaders by single combat is not that odd a thing, whereas worshiping Daedra is kind of unambiguously troublesome.

Lucrece wrote:How would you believe the nord to behave if THEY had been booted off to some much smaller zone and marginalized culturally?
I would expect them to murder all Falmer, who were far more civilized than they were.

BlackSails:
Spoiler:
You sort of get that option with the Blades and Paarthurnax. Either you kill Paarthurnax because he was a war criminal several ages ago, and then go on grand dragon hunts with all the followers you've inducted into the blades, or you tell the Blades to sod off and let Paarthurnax chill on his mountain peak.

But as for siding with Alduin- I guess you could come up with a reason to? It doesn't seem likely, though, and is a lot weaker than, say, the Nerevarine siding with Dagoth Ur (though stronger than the Hero of Kvatch siding with Mehrunes Dagon).
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby SirBryghtside » Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:45 pm UTC

SecondTalon wrote:The Stormcloaks are just getting started. The Forsworn have been doing this for at least the last 25 years.

And yet Windhelm - the base of the Stormcloak rebellion - has a whole section where they let the elves, who they absolutely despise, live. OK, it's not quite in peace, but it's a far cry from crazy murderers.
BlackSails wrote:I think it would have been nice if
Spoiler:
The dragonborn were instead a person with the soul of a dragon or some crap like that, and you had the option to side with the dragons

Spoiler:
You... pretty much could. The option to side against the dragons was the more obscure (killing Paarthurnax) - completing the main quest still allows the dragons roam free for the rest of their natural lives - not sure if breeding's possible, but I don't see why not.

I'm guessing you mean let Alduin roam free. And eat the world. OK, I guess some characters would be psychopathic enough to want to do that, but it doesn't really make sense in terms of future games, post-MQ content, or logic.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby Lucrece » Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:56 pm UTC

mosc wrote:
Lucrece wrote:Well, maybe the Forsworn have been radicalized by the transgressions the nords made. How would you believe the nord to behave if THEY had been booted off to some much smaller zone and marginalized culturally?

Are the people that make up the Forsworn the same as they were then?

Sure, you can use this type of logic. You can also apply it to the poor mudcrab who is just defending his territory and isn't really a hostile maniac who just wants to kill anything near it. Forsworn are not written nearly as clean as you make it out. They're pretty much crazy cultists trying to reclaim control of the region in an effort to spread their crazy religious cult.

I mean, say what you want about the stormcloaks but they're civilized. At least keeping in mind the limitations of the game vs the lore, they're a whole other level of morally correct from the forsworn.


Why are the Stormcloaks even figuring into this? They're a faction of a majority ethnic sector of the Skyrim population that isn't satisfied with their level of cultural dominance.

My point is how much of the Forsworn resorted to some perverted zealotry as a result of feeling marginalized and pretty much decimated by Ulfric Stormcloak out of a region? We KNOW the Forsworn aren't even a majority of the Breton faction inhabiting part of Skyrim -- they're just some of those who lost their shit as opposed to the other Bretons that adapted to defeat.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby Box Boy » Tue Jan 24, 2012 11:14 pm UTC

Lucrece wrote:Well, maybe the Forsworn have been radicalized by the transgressions the nords made. How would you believe the nord to behave if THEY had been booted off to some much smaller zone and marginalized culturally?
Personally, I don't care - second you start murdering people based on their race and without being in immediate danger due to it, you're on my shit-list.
Vaniver wrote:Challenging leaders by single combat is not that odd a thing, whereas worshiping Daedra is kind of unambiguously troublesome.
So is murdering the head honcho of a major country, creating a power vacuum everyone wants to fill and then starting a civil war, as a result causing the deaths of who knows how many innocent people because of your own power hungry ambitions your inability to cop on and realise that the peace treaty and Talos ban were only temporary.
SirBryghtside wrote:And yet Windhelm - the base of the Stormcloak rebellion - has a whole section where they let the elves, who they absolutely despise, live. OK, it's not quite in peace, but it's a far cry from crazy murderers.
It's a shame they're still racists and seem to be mainly doing it to avoid getting another faction pissed off at them. (Heck, the area they live in is called the Grey Quarter as a racist slur!)
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby Vaniver » Tue Jan 24, 2012 11:30 pm UTC

Box Boy wrote:So is murdering the head honcho of a major country, creating a power vacuum everyone wants to fill and then starting a civil war, as a result causing the deaths of who knows how many innocent people
The civil war could be attributed to Imperial interference, though, as Ufric probably would have been named High King shortly after pulling a stunt like that in pre-Imperial days.

Box Boy wrote:your inability to cop on and realise that the peace treaty and Talos ban were only temporary.
Temporary until when? The Aldmeri Dominion conquers Skyrim personally?
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby Lucrece » Wed Jan 25, 2012 12:22 am UTC

Box Boy wrote:
Lucrece wrote:Well, maybe the Forsworn have been radicalized by the transgressions the nords made. How would you believe the nord to behave if THEY had been booted off to some much smaller zone and marginalized culturally?
Personally, I don't care - second you start murdering people based on their race and without being in immediate danger due to it, you're on my shit-list.


I wasn't justifying them. You don't need to justify something in order to understand how it came to be. Similarly how I can understand the underlying motives behind someone's decision to steal/assault and still find the act contemptible.

Hey, if I supported the Forsworn, I don't know who I was sending flying off a cliff with my Incinerate dualcast >_>;

Besides, I resent ANY mob that hits my character THAT hard. Hadn't been hit particularly hard by any random mob since a Dragon Priest.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby MisterCheif » Wed Jan 25, 2012 12:32 am UTC

SecondTalon wrote:Before we get into the Forsworn throwing in with the Hagravens as a way of trying to level the playing field, the Traditional Nord Way apparently allows for you to kick down the door of your High King's place (The person to whom you've presumably sworn some sort of oath) and kill him in single combat shout him to pieces using abilities from which he cannot defend himself and still be a legitimate contender for the throne.


You have to realize that the culture of the nords is not our culture - it's the culture of a people based heavily off of the nordic cultures of northern Europe. That's the culture that spawned Beowulf, where the two most valued people are the strong warriors, willing to die in combat, and the bards, because they could preserve the names of those warriors. In a culture like that, the strongest, especially if they have abilities making them more effective in combat that few have the patience and determination to master (the Thu'um), will be the most respected, and seen as the best leaders.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby SecondTalon » Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:07 am UTC

MisterCheif wrote:
SexyTalon wrote:Before we get into the Forsworn throwing in with the Hagravens as a way of trying to level the playing field, the Traditional Nord Way apparently allows for you to kick down the door of your High King's place (The person to whom you've presumably sworn some sort of oath) and kill him in single combat shout him to pieces using abilities from which he cannot defend himself and still be a legitimate contender for the throne.


You have to realize that the culture of the nords is not our culture - it's the culture of a people based heavily off of the nordic cultures of northern Europe. That's the culture that spawned Beowulf, where the two most valued people are the strong warriors, willing to die in combat, and the bards, because they could preserve the names of those warriors. In a culture like that, the strongest, especially if they have abilities making them more effective in combat that few have the patience and determination to master (the Thu'um), will be the most respected, and seen as the best leaders.
And this differs from the Forsworn culture.... How?

Sure, they're hostile to outsiders. So are Bosmer and Argonians. Sure, they have wacky beliefs. So do Dunmer and Khajiit. All they want is what the Stormcloaks want - a place to call theirs.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby IcedT » Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:26 am UTC

SecondTalon wrote:
MisterCheif wrote:You have to realize that the culture of the nords is not our culture - it's the culture of a people based heavily off of the nordic cultures of northern Europe. That's the culture that spawned Beowulf, where the two most valued people are the strong warriors, willing to die in combat, and the bards, because they could preserve the names of those warriors. In a culture like that, the strongest, especially if they have abilities making them more effective in combat that few have the patience and determination to master (the Thu'um), will be the most respected, and seen as the best leaders.
And this differs from the Forsworn culture.... How?

Sure, they're hostile to outsiders. So are Bosmer and Argonians. Sure, they have wacky beliefs. So do Dunmer and Khajiit. All they want is what the Stormcloaks want - a place to call theirs.

Ulfric killing Torygg in ritual combat is a little different from Forsworn killing everyone they see who isn't one of them. The Forsworn were probably sympathetic at one point but since Ulfric retook Markarth they've been pretty much evil.

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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby omgryebread » Wed Jan 25, 2012 4:53 am UTC

Vaniver wrote:Challenging leaders by single combat is not that odd a thing, whereas worshiping Daedra is kind of unambiguously troublesome.
As far as I'm aware, the only evidence that the Forsworn worship Daedra is a Nord telling you so, and he didn't seem to be that informed. And besides, the Daedra, with some exceptions aren't really evil. Yeah, worshipping Malog Bal or Mehrunes Dagon would be a turn-off, but Azura, Hermaeus Mora, and Meridia seem pretty okay, for example. The Eight Divine helped Pelinal Whitestrake kill off almost an entire race (and some more, because he didn't bother to check if some people were Khajiit or Ayelid), so they aren't exactly cool.

Really, the only difference between the Aedra worshipped by Aldmeris, Imperials, and Nords; and the Daedra worshipped by Dunmer, Ayelids, and the occasional cultist, are that the Daedra didn't fall for/rejected Lorkhan's deception/argument to create Nirn. They tend to be bigger dicks and interfere more, but I'd wager that's more from the fact that the Aedra gave up large parts of their power in creation. The Aedra don't seem to have the nasty habit of claiming souls, I guess, but the Daedra mostly grab their followers, so it's individual choice.


Vaniver wrote:
Box Boy wrote:So is murdering the head honcho of a major country, creating a power vacuum everyone wants to fill and then starting a civil war, as a result causing the deaths of who knows how many innocent people
The civil war could be attributed to Imperial interference, though, as Ufric probably would have been named High King shortly after pulling a stunt like that in pre-Imperial days.
Hard to view the Empire as interfering in Skyrim when the modern empire basically originated in Skyrim. Going back further, Skyrim seems to have been part of the Empire since at least some point in the First Empire. They seem to be even willing subjects of Reman Cyrodiil in the Second Empire, up until the collapse of the Akaviri Potentate.



Damn you Bethesda. I spent pretty much all night not even playing any of your games, but reading about them. The lore is crazy detailed, with just the right amount of ambiguity. If you haven't read the 2290 series, go collect them. (They are also in Morrowind and Skyrim, or online at The Imperial Library.) They're essentially a historical novel about the end of the First Era. I only wish they were full length actual novels.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby Vaniver » Wed Jan 25, 2012 7:02 am UTC

omgryebread wrote:And besides, the Daedra, with some exceptions aren't really evil. Yeah, worshipping Malog Bal or Mehrunes Dagon would be a turn-off, but Azura, Hermaeus Mora, and Meridia seem pretty okay, for example.
Er, while he's my favorite, Hermaeus Mora tends to be the "dark bargain" sort of knowledge deity; among other things catching villagers lost in the woods. (He's also associated with plagues, I believe.)

omgryebread wrote:I only wish they were full length actual novels.
I have not read them, so I can't vouch for their quality, but there are a set of novels out about the first years of the Fourth Era.
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Re: The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim : Dual Wield Bacon

Postby the_bandersnatch » Wed Jan 25, 2012 9:35 am UTC

Here's a thing: does anyone else think it would be better if the player character wasn't able to become Archmage, and Gray Fox/Nightingale, and basically leader of every organisation ever? In both Skyrim and Oblivion I was in the College/Mages Guild for less than a week yet there I was as new Archmage, despite still having to buy new spells off people who had been there their entire lives. And I don't even spend any time there! Or at Jorrvaskr, or at the Flagged Wagon (or whatever it's name is).

I can get away with being Listener in the Dark Brotherhood, maybe, because that's pretty straightforward: all I have to do is listen once I've been chosen by the Night Mother (again, weirdly even though I've just turned up a couple of days ago). But for me it would seem more realistic, and give a grander sense to the world if one was only able to rise to a senior rank in the various guilds once I had been there quite some time in the game. Make me feel like I'm just one member of a vast organisation instead of numbero uno of 6 people who barely know me.

By all means, have the epic questlines, but instead give the player a special medal or unique title plus the loot reward, without placing them in charge. Leave them in a junior rank, promote them only after a few months of in-game time and never let them take the number one position. Personally, I don't think I even deserve to be Archmage (or Nightingale, or Harbinger), and I think Nazir deserves to run the Dark Brotherhood - and that he would actually do the job properly, instead of turning simply up once in a while like I do.

Anyone else feel like this?
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