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Postby SecondTalon » Mon Jul 16, 2007 5:46 pm UTC

My main problem with WoW, even with the new fancy LFG system (that, last I played, no one uses) .. running an Instance takes too damned long. It's at least two or three hours, if not more. And that's assuming it's not a Pickup group, which adds at least another hour on to it when you try to get a group together.
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Postby GhostWolfe » Mon Jul 16, 2007 10:40 pm UTC

I have the opposite problem, I can't find a raid group. I'd happily give up my evenings to raid, it's my favorite part of the game. Sadly, I never really made many friends on FM, especially after my BF changed servers. I've started playing on his server, but it's PvP and I already suffer from bad enough anxiety without getting to level 20 and being too jumpy to go out and quest.

Argh! Alliance! *whispers to self* Don't hurt me, don't hurt me, just trying to quest, not hurting anyone, not looking at you, don't see me, don't pay attention to me, don't gank me, don't gank me...
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Postby CitizenErased » Tue Jul 17, 2007 3:25 am UTC

I haven't even seen WoW in action yet, so far only screenshots (I have a really old crap computer I haven't bothered to upgrade so no point in tempting myself)

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Postby ccromwell » Tue Jul 17, 2007 5:27 am UTC

I play WoW pretty much every day. Why? Because it's fun, addictive, has some excellent lore behind it and provides a marginal amount of social contact. It's a video game, not a cancer. Don't get so worked up over it.

And to those who find fault with the monthly fee, consider this: In the overwhelming majority of video games today, the end user pays between 35 and 60 dollars for one game, depending on console. Additionally, an average video game has, again, on average, between 15 and 25 hours - thirty to thirty-five at a stretch or unless the game is a Japanese RPG, in which case it ranges from sixty-five to 385 hours - of gameplay. Said average game will take me about a month to to complete, and after that, it generally sits on a shelf somewhere in my house collecting dust until I decide to play it through again (this happens a lot).

Now, we will compare the aforementioned average game to the game with which this topic concerns itself - World of Warcraft. The base game plus the Burning Crusade expansion is sixty dollars ( $20 + $40 ). The game offers a free ten-day trial, and after that, you have two basic payment options - give Blizzard your credit card number and they will bill you $15 per month automatically, or go out and buy physical "time cards," good for two months of gameplay, for $30. I will use my own account as an example: I have been playing for about seven months, and I have about 18 days (real-time) of gameplay logged into my main character, though this estimate does not account for times when I let my character stand in the middle of someplace and walked away from the computer. The game disconnects you automatically after idling for 30 minutes, however, so the effect on my total /played is negligible at best. Eighteen real-time days equates to 432 hours, which, spread over seven months, is about 61 hours per month.

Sixty-one hours per month for seven months. That's a colossal chunk of gameplay for a single solitary video game. Now let's measure monetary values.

Let's assume for a moment that the "average" (non-MMO) video game contains a mean of 25 hours per gameplay, and that the "average" (again, non-MMO) video game costs about $50 - pretty realistic estimates, if you ask me. How does World of Warcraft measure up? Again, I'm basically setting myself up for crucifixion using my own gameplay statistics for these measurements, but here we go: Let's go back to that 432 hours again. To recap, that's spread over seven months, averaging 60 hours per month. Assuming that you want the expansion as well, WoW requires a base investment of $60 plus the $15/month fee. So, since I have been playing for seven months, I have spent 165 dollars on the game. Yeesh, that sounds like a lot of money when you put it like that, doesn't it? But let's divide that by the number of months that I have been playing - seven. When we do this, it comes out to about $23 a month, and that average decreases as time goes on.

So, let's sum this up: Thus far, World of Warcraft has provided me with about 60 hours per month of gameplay for about $23 - more than double the playtime for the average that we gave for non-MMOs for less than half the mean cost, and I have somehow managed to maintain a fairly active social life and a girlfriend despite all this time spent. Perhaps I am the one who is doing something wrong here, but add to all this the sheer amount of raw, unmitigated fun that I've had with the game and, well, it sounds like a pretty good deal to me.
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Postby Tractor » Tue Jul 17, 2007 2:02 pm UTC

SilverWolfe wrote:I have the opposite problem, I can't find a raid group. I'd happily give up my evenings to raid, it's my favorite part of the game. Sadly, I never really made many friends on FM, especially after my BF changed servers.


There's that too, not that I've been looking all that much, although I do have the Kara key. It doesn't help that I've had only a couple of experiences raiding.
My other option is find a group up for heroics, seeing as I now have all 5 keys.
9 x 6 = 42

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Postby OCR » Tue Jul 17, 2007 4:15 pm UTC

I play a pile of WoW. I've been in a raid guild and participating in the fun that is the end game of wow forever. I have the joys of being an officer and raid leader of my guild, it's like an upaid part-time job herding cats. No matter what you do, you never win. I have a core group of friends that started and keeps the guild alive, so it's hard to leave especially since I've moved 800 miles from most of these people.

I love the raiding, I enjoy overcoming new challenges associated with it. Lately they've done a lot with the game to make it not so much a time sink for me. I can earn some quick gold with daily quests, and I don't have to spend hours a week farming for flasks/gold to maintain raiding. I thin blizz is realizing they've created a highly unhealthy game and is slowing fixing it.
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Postby Sprocket » Tue Jul 17, 2007 7:59 pm UTC

OCR wrote:I thin blizz is realizing they've created a highly unhealthy game and is slowing fixing it.
If that was true, I'd be impressed.
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Postby skeptical scientist » Tue Jul 17, 2007 8:52 pm UTC

CatProximity wrote:
OCR wrote:I thin blizz is realizing they've created a highly unhealthy game and is slowing fixing it.
If that was true, I'd be impressed.

Why? It doesn't have to be so addicting you spend every minute online for them to make money - only addicting enough for you to keep paying for it month after month. In fact, their profit margins could go up if it were less addicting, because people would be more likely to get it in the first place and less likely to quit cold-turkey because it was eating up too much time, and additionally if the same number of people play less frequently, it makes fewer resource demands on their servers. And one great thing about a pay every month game is that there is lot of motivation for the company to continue making improvements and responding to customer desires.
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Postby OCR » Tue Jul 17, 2007 8:55 pm UTC

Well they made flasks fairly unimportant by nerfing them. They also added in flasks that you can make from a drop in instance, or from quest rewards from daily quests. So that cuts down on the flask thing.

They dropped the attunements for TK and SSC, TK being a major pain in the bum to complete.

They also dropped my need to farm for hours on a protection specc'd warrior(which isn't fun EVER) by giving everyone plenty of daily quests to do. I can do about 20 minutes of work before or after a raid and get more gold then I spent during the raid back out.

The grind outside the raid is what really killed me more than anything else. As if I hadn't had enough fun playing for 4-5 hours, I needed to go pick 30 gromsblood and farm 40g for the following evening. That doesn't happen now, I can go bomb some things and collect repair money.

They didn't make the whole raiding or insane amounts of PvP go away, but at least they've killed off a lot of the pointless farming you had to do in order to do those things.
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Postby Phenriz » Tue Jul 17, 2007 10:12 pm UTC

i'll never admit that my buddies got me to start playing wow again last month.

i'll also never admit that i hate 20-40 and because of that i only log on 2 times a week to try and level.

http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/chara ... &n=Phenrza
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Postby EricD242 » Tue Jul 17, 2007 10:55 pm UTC

I created my account around Feb 2006, and even playing for this long I'm still considered a newb by some. I played intensely the first few months (6-8 hours on weekdays, longer on weekends), got myself to 60 before the summer, and got in a guild raiding Molten Core. I have since decreased my addiction.

I don't raid anymore, and that helps. Raid nights meant regularly scheduled 4+ hours of my life multiple times a week, and I'm not cool with that anymore. Real life > WoW. Plus I only have one character at 70, none of my others made it into the double digits because I don't want to dedicate that much time to it.

Someone else pointed out how the cost is actually tolerable depending on what perspective you put it in. I'm happy paying the $15/month so I can log on anytime, for as long as I want, and there's plenty for me to do. Compare that to a $60 FPS that I get through once, maybe play again in god mode, but get bored with it after a few days.

I can farm mats for crafting new gear, run some battlegrounds for honor (and therefore better gear), quests in zones I haven't fully explored yet, run an instance (which I haven't really done in the expansion), or if my guild is raiding and has a free spot, maybe I'll join.

I'd link my gear, but it's nothing special. Pretty embarassing considering it's my only toon, so whatever.
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Postby EricD242 » Tue Jul 17, 2007 11:12 pm UTC

CatProximity wrote:
OCR wrote:I thin blizz is realizing they've created a highly unhealthy game and is slowing fixing it.
If that was true, I'd be impressed.


In one sense, they kinda are. Think about PVP gear prior to Burning Crusade, the grind to get rank 14 was like a 7 or 8 week commitment that would basically be a full time job with some overtime. Now you can get a piece of gear by playing an hour here and there over a couple weeks.

And the raid gear is basically equivalent to the PVP rewards, so you can either spend hours running a dungeon over and over and hope your stuff drops, or spend hours in a battleground/arena and build up points over time to buy your gear. No more rating decay!

You can get some decent rewards by simply getting to revered with the expansion factions, and usually it's only one or two that will actually benefit you. And there seem to be multiple ways to get to that point with repeatable quest turn-ins, instances with reputation bonuses for killing mobs and bosses, etc.

Some people know all about animals, the environment, Vietnam... I can tell you about Warcraft. /sigh At least I have a great bank of movie knowledge to back me up. Oh wait, that's not much better.
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Postby GhostWolfe » Wed Jul 18, 2007 12:22 am UTC

Tractor wrote:My other option is find a group up for heroics, seeing as I now have all 5 keys.

I got really really pissed off at all my "friends" over this. I am keyed for Kara, mostly through PUGs, but I only have enough rep for the heroic key to Coilfang.

It started with, when we all knew it was really, honest to God, going to be released, people started making plans for how they were going to level. I already knew I was going to do it the hard way and continue levelling as a Resto Druid. I was introduced to some really nice people by a friend, and they thought I was a good healer, so they offered to take me in their groups when they were levelling to 70. They didn't. The person I'm closest to in FM did exactly what I predicted he'd do (despite denying it back then), and levelled while I was at work, and was rarely available to help me in my evenings.

So everyone I knew hit 70 long before. They started grinding rep and getting keyed. By the time I was 70, they were all keyed and tearing it up in Kara. I was disgusted one day when they subbed me in (after some long complaining) to hear them tell a friend that it takes a week to get keyed for Kara. It's doesn't. It takes a day, 2 or 3 if you're taking your time.

No one wanted to help me with instances. They were all too busy with their heroics and 25-mans. It never occured to them that they could run a non-heroic, that it would take them about half the time with their uber gear, and that they'd really be doing someone a favor and that person would be really grateful.

The more pissed off I got about the situation, the more I refused to grind on my own. Eventually I just got the shits and left for my BFs server. But PvP servers are so unappealing to me that I haven't even bothered to play in just over a month.

However, the guild Resto Druid on my PvP server is leaving, so I'm thinking about powerlevelling my baby cow in hope that I'll get his raid spot. *shrug*

[/rant]

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Postby EricD242 » Wed Jul 18, 2007 4:24 pm UTC

I feel your pain, after the expansion I really toned down the amount of time I played, but everyone else in my guild ramped up. They were 70 when I was squeaking past 63, now everyone has heroic keys and full epix, my PVP gear is half-decent and tank gear is WAY out of date. Psh like I wanna tank anymore, I did that for months in Molten Core and got very bored with it.

The PVP servers can be frustrating when you're trying to level or farm, you rarely get into a fair fight. Either I'll get hit when I'm at 20% health, or a 5-man ganking squad will find me and God forbid I should fight back, that's grounds to get yourself camped.

But every so often you are vindicated. I was at low health and got hit 3-vs-1 while farming in Nagrand, came back to find that two of them had left and the third, a warlock I think, was doing that thing where they trade health for mana (never played one, don't know what it's called). His health was REALLY low, I rez'd, charged him, and took him out with one shot. Times like that put a smile on my face. Of course I got the hell out of there before he called his buddies back.

Thanks for the reminder that I need to start my Kara attunement. My guild has that place on farm status. I'm on Illidan btw.
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Postby OCR » Wed Jul 18, 2007 5:00 pm UTC

MC was the most boring place to tank in the known world. BWL was a bit more interesting, but Naxx/AQ40 were the only really challenging tanking encounters pre-BC. The threat of the rest of the raid has risen significantly, so it is actually a challenge to being a tank now in a raiding environment.
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Postby Phenriz » Wed Jul 18, 2007 5:00 pm UTC

general wow question, last night i made my way over to Shat (had a mage buddy port me).

I know that BEs start off friendly, but it's 0/6000 Friendly with the scryers.

How did i manage to get 500 points ahead, at level 36? All i did was train Artisan Enchanting and Artisan Tailoring. (or w/e the 225-300 levels are) Does "horde faction" count towards scryer faction standing? I'm really baffled by this.
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Postby OCR » Wed Jul 18, 2007 5:03 pm UTC

if you did the quest to choose a faction, you get points for it.
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Postby Phenriz » Wed Jul 18, 2007 5:04 pm UTC

nope, can't do that until the high 60's

i did 0 quests in the outlands.
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Postby OCR » Wed Jul 18, 2007 5:06 pm UTC

I think I did it at level 58 or maybe 60.
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Postby Phenriz » Wed Jul 18, 2007 5:07 pm UTC

i'm 36 :P
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Postby OCR » Wed Jul 18, 2007 5:15 pm UTC

well I never tried the quest before then :P, I dont know what the min level is for it.
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Postby Phenriz » Wed Jul 18, 2007 5:16 pm UTC

I loveded you piggy, i lovded youuuu!!!

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Postby OCR » Wed Jul 18, 2007 5:18 pm UTC

so 55 is the min level.
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Postby Tractor » Wed Jul 18, 2007 6:30 pm UTC

SilverWolfe wrote:
Tractor wrote:My other option is find a group up for heroics, seeing as I now have all 5 keys.

I got really really pissed off at all my "friends" over this. I am keyed for Kara, mostly through PUGs, but I only have enough rep for the heroic key to Coilfang.

It started with, when we all knew it was really, honest to God, going to be released, people started making plans for how they were going to level. I already knew I was going to do it the hard way and continue levelling as a Resto Druid. I was introduced to some really nice people by a friend, and they thought I was a good healer, so they offered to take me in their groups when they were levelling to 70. They didn't. The person I'm closest to in FM did exactly what I predicted he'd do (despite denying it back then), and levelled while I was at work, and was rarely available to help me in my evenings.

So everyone I knew hit 70 long before. They started grinding rep and getting keyed. By the time I was 70, they were all keyed and tearing it up in Kara. I was disgusted one day when they subbed me in (after some long complaining) to hear them tell a friend that it takes a week to get keyed for Kara. It's doesn't. It takes a day, 2 or 3 if you're taking your time.

No one wanted to help me with instances. They were all too busy with their heroics and 25-mans. It never occured to them that they could run a non-heroic, that it would take them about half the time with their uber gear, and that they'd really be doing someone a favor and that person would be really grateful.

The more pissed off I got about the situation, the more I refused to grind on my own. Eventually I just got the shits and left for my BFs server. But PvP servers are so unappealing to me that I haven't even bothered to play in just over a month.

However, the guild Resto Druid on my PvP server is leaving, so I'm thinking about powerlevelling my baby cow in hope that I'll get his raid spot. *shrug*

[/rant]

Sorry


Bad times. I only have a handful of friends in wow. When I was lvling to 70, 2 had moseyed to horde, one rarely played, and the other took some time off from it. Once my friend who had taken some time off (a resto druid) came back, I helped her get to 70. Really, I've PUG'd my way through it all. Which is now a problem that I am moving towards heroics/raids.
In any event, if you're ever in need of a combat rogue on FM, look me up.
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Postby Robin S » Thu Jul 19, 2007 2:52 am UTC

Worse yet, I used to play Runescape. I was even invited to be a player moderator. However, by that stage I was too busy having a life. I still go back every few months for nostalgia's sake.

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Postby Fail » Thu Jul 19, 2007 2:58 am UTC

So this thread made me step it up on the WoW scale a bit, me and some close friends all ran ZG with 5 people at 70, and it was hilarious.

We were all chillin' out on vent and just having a good time, and that's what it should be about. Tony the Tigerboss was 4 manned, by the way. It was awesome.

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Postby Devilsaur » Thu Jul 19, 2007 3:31 am UTC

There's so much stigma against WoW. Oh well, there's a lot of wacky messed up stories so I guess some of it's justified. Whatever the case, I think I'm a big enough boy to set my priorities correctly.

Anyways, I just started playing. Actually, my new character should be in ungoro shortly! Of course I'll be running in fear if I see a dinosaur xD

Also, I'm always reminded of xkcd whenever I see one of the cute little raptors in WoW (and there's a lot of raptors too!). Hopefully that's not too weird.

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Postby Brian » Thu Jul 19, 2007 3:32 am UTC

I play.

http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/chara ... re&n=Aware

My guild just got into Hyjal and BT this last week. When people ask what I do with my time, I tell them that I work out and play games online with friends because I know that the instant I say "Warcraft" they either think I'm a complete nerd or that I am a social recluse.

100% raid attendance, top the healing charts type of play. (sif casuals :roll: )

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Postby GhostWolfe » Thu Jul 19, 2007 9:26 am UTC

Devilsaur wrote:...

Argh! Devilsaur!

Back when I started playing I was using my teeny-tiny laptop, and as such all the video settings were turned down as low as they could go. By the time a devilsaur swam into my vision I either had to run like all buggery or I would die.

The reflex became so ingrained that at 70, even with my new computer and about 4 times bigger screen and muchly improved video, I still tried to run from devilsaurs. Then I realised what I was doing, stopped running and pwned it :roll:
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Postby Tractor » Thu Jul 19, 2007 3:57 pm UTC

Fail wrote:So this thread made me step it up on the WoW scale a bit, me and some close friends all ran ZG with 5 people at 70, and it was hilarious.

We were all chillin' out on vent and just having a good time, and that's what it should be about. Tony the Tigerboss was 4 manned, by the way. It was awesome.

heh, it's fun going back at 70 and destroying pre-BC stuff.
I've 2-manned or solo'd all the old 5-man instances. I 5-manned UBRS, but it could've been done with less (prolly the minimum 3).
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Postby Fail » Thu Jul 19, 2007 4:12 pm UTC

Tractor wrote:
Fail wrote:So this thread made me step it up on the WoW scale a bit, me and some close friends all ran ZG with 5 people at 70, and it was hilarious.

We were all chillin' out on vent and just having a good time, and that's what it should be about. Tony the Tigerboss was 4 manned, by the way. It was awesome.

heh, it's fun going back at 70 and destroying pre-BC stuff.
I've 2-manned or solo'd all the old 5-man instances. I 5-manned UBRS, but it could've been done with less (prolly the minimum 3).


FunStuffs update: 4 Manned Onyxia last night, 50g for each of us off her corpse :D

After loot was divided, I ran into the whelp caves and aggro'd them all, while playing "Yakety Sax" on vent. Hilarity ensued.

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Postby Phenriz » Thu Jul 19, 2007 4:27 pm UTC

how long did Ony take with 4 people?
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Postby OCR » Thu Jul 19, 2007 4:53 pm UTC

when I did it as a 4 man team at lvl 60 it took like 50+ minutes. I imagine it would be faster at 70 though.
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Postby Devilsaur » Thu Jul 19, 2007 8:18 pm UTC

SilverWolfe wrote:
Devilsaur wrote:...

Argh! Devilsaur!

Back when I started playing I was using my teeny-tiny laptop, and as such all the video settings were turned down as low as they could go. By the time a devilsaur swam into my vision I either had to run like all buggery or I would die.

The reflex became so ingrained that at 70, even with my new computer and about 4 times bigger screen and muchly improved video, I still tried to run from devilsaurs. Then I realised what I was doing, stopped running and pwned it :roll:
You had me, especially with the running in fear by default part. At least, until:
SilverWolfe wrote:Then I realised what I was doing, stopped running and pwned it :roll:
:cry: The tyranny against my brothers will never end, especially since those stylish leather pants won't go out of style.

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Phenriz
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Postby Phenriz » Thu Jul 19, 2007 8:19 pm UTC

fuck King Mosh.

fuck him hard, immune to fear and sleep, asshole.
I loveded you piggy, i lovded youuuu!!!

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Postby EricD242 » Thu Jul 19, 2007 8:41 pm UTC

I was in a 3-man group that cleared UBRS, even took out the Beast too. We tried it with 2 70's and a 68, we got everything done except Drak. But tried it again later with 3 70's and it was easier (tank warrior who wasn't tank spec, resto shaman, and feral druid).

Thanks for reminding me of those devilsaurs, next time I'm doing CoT i'm going to head west and slice n' dice them for all the pain they caused me. Yeah i actually do have a lot of fun going back to the places that gave me such hard times pre-xpac.
Tastes like chicken, if chicken was a candy.

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Fail
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Postby Fail » Thu Jul 19, 2007 8:42 pm UTC

Phenriz wrote:how long did Ony take with 4 people?


About 15 minutes, most of the time spent was in phase 2 since our only range was one hunter and my throwing weapon.

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GhostWolfe
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Postby GhostWolfe » Thu Jul 19, 2007 10:49 pm UTC

Devilsaur wrote:
SilverWolfe wrote:Argh! Devilsaur!

You had me, especially with the running in fear by default part. At least, until:
SilverWolfe wrote:Then I realised what I was doing, stopped running and pwned it :roll:
:cry: The tyranny against my brothers will never end, especially since those stylish leather pants won't go out of style.
Actually, I only ever did that once. I like devilsaurs, in fact, I named all of them: Bob, John, and Tom. I used to see Bob the most (the albino one). If I was grinding, whenever they went by, I'd be like "hi Bob".
Linguistic Anarchist
Hawknc: ANGELL IS SERIOUS BUSINESS :-[
lesliesage: Animals dunked in crude oil: sad. Animals dunked in boiling oil: tasty.
Belial: I was in your mom's room all night committing to a series of extended military actions.

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Tractor
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Postby Tractor » Fri Jul 20, 2007 1:55 pm UTC

EricD242 wrote:I was in a 3-man group that cleared UBRS, even took out the Beast too. We tried it with 2 70's and a 68, we got everything done except Drak. But tried it again later with 3 70's and it was easier (tank warrior who wasn't tank spec, resto shaman, and feral druid).

Thanks for reminding me of those devilsaurs, next time I'm doing CoT i'm going to head west and slice n' dice them for all the pain they caused me. Yeah i actually do have a lot of fun going back to the places that gave me such hard times pre-xpac.

Good times.
I really should go back and kill some more devilsaurs. I haven't been there since the xpac, when one of my friends was farming devilsaur leather and guardian stones.

Then I got to Hellfire when the xpac came and discovered Devilsaur 2.0 - the Fel Reaver.
9 x 6 = 42



Note: Randall kicks ass.

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Cuton
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Postby Cuton » Fri Jul 20, 2007 3:17 pm UTC

Aparently at some point in closed beta they changed the skin on felreavers to be mini teddy bears and took away their noises... just to fuck with people :D

Cuton


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