Crusader Kings 2

Of the Tabletop, and other, lesser varieties.

Moderators: SecondTalon, Moderators General, Prelates

User avatar
yurell
Posts: 2924
Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2010 2:19 am UTC
Location: Australia!

Re: Crusader Kings 2

Postby yurell » Mon Feb 25, 2013 12:48 pm UTC

Word filters are fun like that.
cemper93 wrote:Dude, I just presented an elaborate multiple fraction in Comic Sans. Who are you to question me?


Pronouns: Feminine pronouns please!

IcedT
Posts: 867
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 8:34 pm UTC

Re: Crusader Kings 2

Postby IcedT » Mon Feb 25, 2013 2:47 pm UTC

I haven't bought The Republic yet actually. It doesn't really interest me and I've been hearing complaints about it negatively affecting balance (and Venice/Genoa were annoying enough already).

User avatar
yurell
Posts: 2924
Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2010 2:19 am UTC
Location: Australia!

Re: Crusader Kings 2

Postby yurell » Mon Feb 25, 2013 10:13 pm UTC

By 1100 I was making as much money as a Republic as I am in my main game, where 2/3 of my provinces belong to a vassal that adores me, and own everything except the Eastern Byzantine Empire and the Ilkhanate (which owns everything East of the Eastern border of the Black Sea).

They are incredibly broken.
cemper93 wrote:Dude, I just presented an elaborate multiple fraction in Comic Sans. Who are you to question me?


Pronouns: Feminine pronouns please!

User avatar
bigglesworth
I feel like Biggles should have a title
Posts: 7461
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2007 9:29 pm UTC
Location: Airstrip One

Re: Crusader Kings 2

Postby bigglesworth » Mon Feb 25, 2013 11:35 pm UTC

Meanwhile I have tried Songhai and... the sham-wow-zids? Anyway, I got pwned. Hard. Which Muslim kingdoms aren't doomed?
Generation Y. I don't remember the First Gulf War, but do remember floppy disks.

User avatar
yurell
Posts: 2924
Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2010 2:19 am UTC
Location: Australia!

Re: Crusader Kings 2

Postby yurell » Tue Feb 26, 2013 12:07 am UTC

Fatmids. If you play them right, you can conquer the entire map in about two centuries (ftr, I'm not that good, just something I've seen people do :P), but even if you're not, it's relatively easy to take Greece from under the Byzantine Empire, and you really start with enough power to exploit your free casus belli at will.
cemper93 wrote:Dude, I just presented an elaborate multiple fraction in Comic Sans. Who are you to question me?


Pronouns: Feminine pronouns please!

User avatar
Jack21222
Posts: 414
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 7:13 pm UTC

Re: Crusader Kings 2

Postby Jack21222 » Tue Feb 26, 2013 2:15 am UTC

I've now logged 330 hours into CK2. I'm playing a Byzantine game where I'm aiming for total map domination. I'm just shy of year 1300, and I've reformed the Roman Empire, and own about half the map. This game is addicting.

I don't have The Republic yet. I'm waiting for it to go on sale. I'm sure I'll get it soon enough, and that will take me to 400 hours played.
broken_escalator wrote:The Mako is powered by the rage of the physics it denies.

User avatar
Vaniver
Posts: 9422
Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2006 2:12 am UTC

Re: Crusader Kings 2

Postby Vaniver » Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:54 pm UTC

yurell wrote:If you're not Doge, though, they just take half of your trade posts, which is so incredibly irritating it's not even funny.
Yeah, but you should be able to have the money to keep your campaign fund well-stocked. It's also something that you can reduce if, say, a rival dies and now your competition isn't as strong. Another thing I noticed is that rival house leaders are fond of plotting, and then as soon as I notice I throw them in jail where they'll die sooner, meaning the age penalty is less likely to come up.

Overall, I like playing as a Republic; enough things are different that it makes for an interesting twist. It does seem super easy, though, in the sense that you soon have way more money than you're used to having. I typically don't have much in the way of military might, since I primarily take provinces from Muslims rather than Catholics, but even then you have more than enough money to hire mercenaries. (I ended up beating out the HRE in contribution to a crusade on Jerusalem, mostly thanks to mercenaries.)

It looks relatively easy to seize all of Ireland by taking a coastal city from everyone, waiting until the truce expires, and then seizing the counties. Now I'm wondering what Grand Principality (empire) is easiest to found / seize as a Republic.

Fatimids are the best Muslims. You start off rich and powerful and you have a CB against basically everyone. The Muslims to your West are weak, the Muslims to your East are plagued by frequent battles for independence (where you can snatch up duchies left and right), the Byzantines to your North will be totally shattered if you win a jihad for Greece (which you should be able to do relatively early), and then soon you'll be much bigger than the HRE, your only serious competition left (who you can again shatter with jihads for entire kingdoms at once. Why, hello Italy!).

The primary challenge with them is dealing with your family- with all those wives running around, you can have tons and tons of children and grandchildren, who you probably should cull to keep decadence down. As your realm size grows, the number of provinces an adult male needs in his personal demesne will soon reach levels that they can't handle without high stewardship, so you need either a constant conquest train (easy to support) to reduce decadence through giving away provinces, or cull anyone with low stewardship.

Dynasty matters are important enough with Muslims that I typically swap between family members (with the console 'play' command) to play the rest of them a little more intelligently. (One of the things they like to do is marry their cousins for the alliance: sensible, because everyone who is a worthwhile ally is related to them, but terrible for their state stats and the eventual genetic quality of the line. At least make the cousin the second wife, so the state stats get the boost from some clever commoner!) This makes an already easy game easier, though, so you may not want to do that.
I mostly post over at LessWrong now.

Avatar from My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic, owned by Hasbro.

User avatar
bigglesworth
I feel like Biggles should have a title
Posts: 7461
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2007 9:29 pm UTC
Location: Airstrip One

Re: Crusader Kings 2

Postby bigglesworth » Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:11 am UTC

So after three attempts at playing the Almoravids, I realised that the Emir of Mauretania is much more powerful than the Sultan - his liege is instantly doomed. I did quite well, taking the Sultanate, capturing a few surrounding Emirates.

Then my decadence hit 80% and a horde of Berbers slaughtered three of my armies in a row and I surrendered and quit :mrgreen:
Generation Y. I don't remember the First Gulf War, but do remember floppy disks.

User avatar
bigglesworth
I feel like Biggles should have a title
Posts: 7461
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2007 9:29 pm UTC
Location: Airstrip One

Re: Crusader Kings 2

Postby bigglesworth » Thu Feb 28, 2013 8:38 pm UTC

Reloading an earlier save so that I could defend the Sultan from the holy Berbers taught me a big lesson about avoiding attrition and allowing enemy armies to slaughter themselves taking castles so that you can then kill them all.

However I just raegquaat after trying to take part of North Africa from the Castillians. The Holy War was going fine until the King of Castille's wife or something took the crown off him. The casus belli was somehow no longer valid. It's a Holy War! Is she a filthy kafir? Check. Casus belli should be therefore totally valid.
Generation Y. I don't remember the First Gulf War, but do remember floppy disks.

IcedT
Posts: 867
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 8:34 pm UTC

Re: Crusader Kings 2

Postby IcedT » Sun Mar 03, 2013 4:46 am UTC

bigglesworth wrote:Reloading an earlier save so that I could defend the Sultan from the holy Berbers taught me a big lesson about avoiding attrition and allowing enemy armies to slaughter themselves taking castles so that you can then kill them all.

However I just raegquaat after trying to take part of North Africa from the Castillians. The Holy War was going fine until the King of Castille's wife or something took the crown off him. The casus belli was somehow no longer valid. It's a Holy War! Is she a filthy kafir? Check. Casus belli should be therefore totally valid.

It's because technically, when you're declaring war you're attacking an individual, not a title. So when lieges change your war doesn't carry over. Usually it makes sense, but yeah in the case of invasions and holy wars it's frustrating.

User avatar
yurell
Posts: 2924
Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2010 2:19 am UTC
Location: Australia!

Re: Crusader Kings 2

Postby yurell » Thu Apr 04, 2013 12:50 am UTC

Ugh! It now costs me over 30k prestige to break a truce! I liked it better when it was a fixed amount and I could break them with impunity because the prestige gain from war was, if not larger, at least on parity with what I spent to declare it. Now that it's (0.5 * prestige + 200) it really hurts, so I guess I'll just have to wait for my son to take over and just abuse his low prestige.

On the bright side, 40 king titles now (which explains how I got >60k prestige)! Made my primary title Armenia so that I would be a pretty purple ^.^
cemper93 wrote:Dude, I just presented an elaborate multiple fraction in Comic Sans. Who are you to question me?


Pronouns: Feminine pronouns please!

User avatar
yurell
Posts: 2924
Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2010 2:19 am UTC
Location: Australia!

Re: Crusader Kings 2

Postby yurell » Wed May 22, 2013 8:21 am UTC

Hope two-months of silence makes it kosher to double-post, but I just wanted to say ...
ck2_map_16.jpg


In the immortal words of Ozymandias:
Spoiler:
Image
cemper93 wrote:Dude, I just presented an elaborate multiple fraction in Comic Sans. Who are you to question me?


Pronouns: Feminine pronouns please!

User avatar
Woopate
Scrapple
Posts: 503
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2010 10:34 am UTC

Re: Crusader Kings 2

Postby Woopate » Wed May 22, 2013 2:55 pm UTC

Grats! I've been playing this lately. My first Paradox Interactive game. Started in Ireland because it seemed safe. 200 years in, king of ireland and scotland, and have made good progress on england.

User avatar
emceng
Posts: 3167
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 9:38 pm UTC
Location: State of Hockey
Contact:

Re: Crusader Kings 2

Postby emceng » Wed May 22, 2013 3:12 pm UTC

Yeah, I keep wanting to give this another shot, but lack of free time and carpal tunnel are preventing me.
When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up. - CS Lewis

User avatar
Jack21222
Posts: 414
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 7:13 pm UTC

Re: Crusader Kings 2

Postby Jack21222 » Fri May 24, 2013 11:31 am UTC

yurell wrote:Hope two-months of silence makes it kosher to double-post, but I just wanted to say ...
ck2_map_16.jpg


In the immortal words of Ozymandias:
Spoiler:
Image


Congrats!

I've taken a break from my roman empire game, but I'm not too terribly far from that myself. I'm at year 1303 and have ~75% of the map. Need to finish off the northernmost part of the HRE, part of Spain, England/Ireland, Mali, and then a strip down the right side and a strip across the top side where the Ilkhanate and Golden Horde carved out a place for themselves.
broken_escalator wrote:The Mako is powered by the rage of the physics it denies.

User avatar
yurell
Posts: 2924
Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2010 2:19 am UTC
Location: Australia!

Re: Crusader Kings 2

Postby yurell » Fri May 24, 2013 11:50 am UTC

Wow, I'm in 1406 now (that said, I started off as Duke of Swabia).

Anyway, Old Gods comes out next week! I hope the new tech is decent; I like the current tech, tbh, and I hope its release won't screw up my save.
cemper93 wrote:Dude, I just presented an elaborate multiple fraction in Comic Sans. Who are you to question me?


Pronouns: Feminine pronouns please!

User avatar
setzer777
Good questions sometimes get stupid answers
Posts: 2762
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2008 9:24 am UTC

Re: Crusader Kings 2

Postby setzer777 » Thu Jun 06, 2013 7:08 pm UTC

Has anyone else run into weirdly suicidal factions? I had taken over about half of Ireland when one of the conquered counts starts a faction to put my half-brother* on the throne. Several months later he makes the demand, and when I say no he fields an army of like 70 guys against my 700. In the end all he accomplished was giving me a handy excuse to execute him. I thought they were supposed to wait until they had enough strength to realistically challenge their liege.

On an unrelated note, is it a big deal if I agree to go to war with someone half-way across the world and just don't contribute anything? I always say "yes" to avoid the prestige hit, and I've never noticed the ally getting pissed that I didn't actually do anything.

*Does the claimant get a chance to renounce the faction? It made me automatically imprison my half-brother when they surrendered, but I'm not even sure he actually supported them.

Edit:

Sorry, one more random question: when you have the opportunity to sleep with a courtier, what determines whether you get the option to say no? Is it purely random or is it based on personality traits?
Meaux_Pas wrote:We're here to go above and beyond.

Too infinity
of being an arsehole

User avatar
Jack21222
Posts: 414
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 7:13 pm UTC

Re: Crusader Kings 2

Postby Jack21222 » Fri Jun 07, 2013 2:13 am UTC

setzer777 wrote:Has anyone else run into weirdly suicidal factions?

I've not had this problem. Usually, the factions end up recruiting a lot more help after they declare war.

On an unrelated note, is it a big deal if I agree to go to war with someone half-way across the world and just don't contribute anything? I always say "yes" to avoid the prestige hit, and I've never noticed the ally getting pissed that I didn't actually do anything.

I don't think that matters for relationship purposes, but that does mean you won't be able to do some things that can only be done during peacetime, like having a feast.


Edit:

Sorry, one more random question: when you have the opportunity to sleep with a courtier, what determines whether you get the option to say no? Is it purely random or is it based on personality traits?

Traits come into play.
broken_escalator wrote:The Mako is powered by the rage of the physics it denies.

User avatar
yurell
Posts: 2924
Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2010 2:19 am UTC
Location: Australia!

Re: Crusader Kings 2

Postby yurell » Fri Jun 07, 2013 2:48 am UTC

setzer777 wrote:Has anyone else run into weirdly suicidal factions?


I only generally have that problem just after a succession with a child emperor — before bribing my vassals, the faction thinks they have a large percentage of my soldiers, and so starts, and then when the bribery gets done you have the Duke of Berry and his mates with two thousand soldiers fighting against about five hundred times that, which is really satisfying, since it means you have more landed titles to give to the loyal people =P
cemper93 wrote:Dude, I just presented an elaborate multiple fraction in Comic Sans. Who are you to question me?


Pronouns: Feminine pronouns please!

User avatar
setzer777
Good questions sometimes get stupid answers
Posts: 2762
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2008 9:24 am UTC

Re: Crusader Kings 2

Postby setzer777 » Fri Jun 07, 2013 3:13 am UTC

Thanks for the info!

And yeah, it could have been a timing thing - I always pause to do all of my diplomacy.
Meaux_Pas wrote:We're here to go above and beyond.

Too infinity
of being an arsehole

User avatar
Jack21222
Posts: 414
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 7:13 pm UTC

Re: Crusader Kings 2

Postby Jack21222 » Sat Jul 27, 2013 7:56 pm UTC

Finally got The Old Gods, because it's on sale on Steam for under 4 bucks. Looking forward to pillaging my way to an empire.
broken_escalator wrote:The Mako is powered by the rage of the physics it denies.

User avatar
Woopate
Scrapple
Posts: 503
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2010 10:34 am UTC

Re: Crusader Kings 2

Postby Woopate » Sun Jul 28, 2013 9:20 am UTC

I've been loving my Norse game. Boating down rivers and no raised vassal penalties mean I'm almost perpetually at war and raiding boatloads of gold. Forced cognatic succession is rough. Usually when I die I spend a good decade or so assassinating siblings (concubines inflate the number of kids you have). The number of Catholic missionaries I've hung in Blots is staggering. There are a lot of small independents who are Norse, so after I created my first kingdom I expand died rapidly by offering vassalization. You get major moral authority bonuses when Norse hold 5 specific holy places. Two are pretty deep into the HRE though and I've yet to go for them. It's not yet year 1000 and I have Norway, Denmark, Sweden, Pomerania, and a good chunk of Rus.

User avatar
Vaniver
Posts: 9422
Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2006 2:12 am UTC

Re: Crusader Kings 2

Postby Vaniver » Mon Jul 29, 2013 10:31 am UTC

I started a game as Vestisland (the barony of Reykjavik and one empty slot, as far as you can get from the rest of the world), and over the course of a century have gone from piddling count to Emperor of Scandinavia, just reformed the Norse church, and plan on grabbing Britannia next. (Multiple empires is probably a terrible idea- have one succession go wrong and now you've got quite a bit of fighting to do- but I want the prestige so hard. Just managed to switch to Elective everywhere, and I don't like how people will get mad about the succession law change for each kingdom you have.)
I mostly post over at LessWrong now.

Avatar from My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic, owned by Hasbro.

User avatar
Jack21222
Posts: 414
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 7:13 pm UTC

Re: Crusader Kings 2

Postby Jack21222 » Mon Jul 29, 2013 11:42 am UTC

Vaniver wrote:I started a game as Vestisland (the barony of Reykjavik and one empty slot, as far as you can get from the rest of the world), and over the course of a century have gone from piddling count to Emperor of Scandinavia, just reformed the Norse church, and plan on grabbing Britannia next. (Multiple empires is probably a terrible idea- have one succession go wrong and now you've got quite a bit of fighting to do- but I want the prestige so hard. Just managed to switch to Elective everywhere, and I don't like how people will get mad about the succession law change for each kingdom you have.)


That's where I started my first Norse game, but I was not so lucky. I was invaded by a force of 2500 from the mainland in the first few years, so now I'm part of the Norwegian blob that's starting to form. King Fairhair of the Norway just died, so the blob took a break from expanding for a little bit of the old civil war, but before then, Norway was expanding into Germany and France already. My goals are a little smaller: I just want Iceland under my control. I took both counties briefly, but then I died, and now my cursed brother has the other county. I'm Jarl of Iceland, but he's not under my control: Fairhair kept him under his direct vassalage for some reason.
broken_escalator wrote:The Mako is powered by the rage of the physics it denies.

User avatar
Vaniver
Posts: 9422
Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2006 2:12 am UTC

Re: Crusader Kings 2

Postby Vaniver » Wed Jul 31, 2013 2:30 am UTC

Jack21222 wrote:That's where I started my first Norse game, but I was not so lucky. I was invaded by a force of 2500 from the mainland in the first few years, so now I'm part of the Norwegian blob that's starting to form. King Fairhair of the Norway just died, so the blob took a break from expanding for a little bit of the old civil war, but before then, Norway was expanding into Germany and France already. My goals are a little smaller: I just want Iceland under my control. I took both counties briefly, but then I died, and now my cursed brother has the other county. I'm Jarl of Iceland, but he's not under my control: Fairhair kept him under his direct vassalage for some reason.
Going a-viking, combined with hiring mercenaries, seems to be the path to power as Norse (and especially as a Norwegian power, since Norway seems way poorer and less powerful than Sweden and Denmark). I managed to get the duchy of Iceland relatively quickly, and the main other power in Norway was the Ylvings, who left me alone long enough for us to be neck-and-neck (until I subjugated them with hired help and made myself king of Norway).

I have a bunch of screenshots so I can write up the story, but not sure when I'll get to it (if I will).
I mostly post over at LessWrong now.

Avatar from My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic, owned by Hasbro.

JudeMorrigan
Posts: 1254
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2010 1:26 pm UTC

Re: Crusader Kings 2

Postby JudeMorrigan » Thu Aug 01, 2013 2:21 pm UTC

This isn't exactly yurell's level of success, but I've met my own personal victory conditions for my first game of CKII:

Spoiler:
Image
(Hope that works)

I started as the Duke of Provence and went from there. I managed to form the Kingdom of Burgundy and break away from the HRE during my intial ruler's comically long reign. (He was in his mid-80s when he finally died.) At that point, Francia became my goal, and well, I just now managed it. Of course, I only finally figured out how to use weak claims to add land to my realm in the last 20 years or so of game time. And there were slews of out-and-out mistakes made along the way, this being my very first game. I've still got another 100 years of game time left though, so unless my successions as an emperor are a whole lot worse than my last few successions as a king, I should be able to get a fair bit more expansion in.

User avatar
Coin
Posts: 884
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 11:21 pm UTC
Location: Uppsala
Contact:

Re: Crusader Kings 2

Postby Coin » Thu Aug 01, 2013 2:41 pm UTC

JudeMorrigan wrote:This isn't exactly yurell's level of success, but I've met my own personal victory conditions for my first game of CKII:

Spoiler:
Image
(Hope that works)

I started as the Duke of Provence and went from there. I managed to form the Kingdom of Burgundy and break away from the HRE during my intial ruler's comically long reign. (He was in his mid-80s when he finally died.) At that point, Francia became my goal, and well, I just now managed it. Of course, I only finally figured out how to use weak claims to add land to my realm in the last 20 years or so of game time. And there were slews of out-and-out mistakes made along the way, this being my very first game. I've still got another 100 years of game time left though, so unless my successions as an emperor are a whole lot worse than my last few successions as a king, I should be able to get a fair bit more expansion in.


Good work there! It's still impressive to me. =)
Any chance you could explain how you used weak claims to nab more counties? I haven't gotten that far yet and would love to hear a little tutorial.
3fj wrote: "You, sir, have been added to my list of deities under 'God of Swedish meat'."

JudeMorrigan
Posts: 1254
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2010 1:26 pm UTC

Re: Crusader Kings 2

Postby JudeMorrigan » Thu Aug 01, 2013 4:45 pm UTC

Well, the big thing appears to be that you have to land the noble whose claim you're pressing before you press the claim. I had previously tried pressing a weak claim for an unlanded member of my court only to have it stay outside my realm. In those last 20 years, I tried granting a county to the claimant beforehand and was able to gobble up the duchies of Burgundy and Orleans all at once (albeit in separate wars, of course). I believe the standard caveat that dukes can only be vassals to kings and kings to emperors applies, limiting which claims you can press productively. And of course, this produces vassals with multiple titles, and more powerful vassals are more troublesome vassals.

User avatar
Coin
Posts: 884
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 11:21 pm UTC
Location: Uppsala
Contact:

Re: Crusader Kings 2

Postby Coin » Thu Aug 01, 2013 8:16 pm UTC

Aha, that sounds very interesting. Do you mean that the vassal has to be a landed, direct vassal to yourself for it to work?
I'm going to have to give it a try some time.
3fj wrote: "You, sir, have been added to my list of deities under 'God of Swedish meat'."

User avatar
Vaniver
Posts: 9422
Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2006 2:12 am UTC

Re: Crusader Kings 2

Postby Vaniver » Thu Aug 01, 2013 8:22 pm UTC

JudeMorrigan wrote:Well, the big thing appears to be that you have to land the noble whose claim you're pressing before you press the claim.
This is true for any claim. You either need to land them or be the de jure liege of the title in question. (If you pressed a courtier's claim for Poitou, that should make them your vassal afterwards, even without landing them first.) You can bypass both if they're a member of your dynasty. (This is not true if you're pressing an anti-pope's claim on the Papacy; I haven't figured out yet how to get a Pope under your control. It's not listed as independent in the landed_titles file, but it's also not the de jure vassal of anyone; there may be some hardcoded independence.)

Strong claims may be pressed at any time against anyone. Weak claims can only be pressed at a particular time, as detailed on the tooltip for the claim. In my experience, pressing claims against regencies has been the easiest- murder someone with young children, then press your weak claim against their heir. (This will also often get rid of any pesky alliances they may have had protecting them.)

Also, a tip for making the most of your daughters: marry them matrilineally to a claimant in your court (since they're in your court, you control their marriage), and then press the claim, and you grandchildren will inherit. You may have to murder their first wife and any sons they had by them first- but since they're in your court, surrounded by all of your high-intrigue courtiers and vassals, you should have a pretty easy job of it.
I mostly post over at LessWrong now.

Avatar from My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic, owned by Hasbro.

User avatar
firechicago
Posts: 621
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 12:27 pm UTC
Location: One time, I put a snowglobe in the microwave and pushed "Hot Dog"

Re: Crusader Kings 2

Postby firechicago » Fri Aug 02, 2013 1:34 am UTC

Vaniver wrote:This is true for any claim. You either need to land them or be the de jure liege of the title in question. (If you pressed a courtier's claim for Poitou, that should make them your vassal afterwards, even without landing them first.) You can bypass both if they're a member of your dynasty. (This is not true if you're pressing an anti-pope's claim on the Papacy; I haven't figured out yet how to get a Pope under your control. It's not listed as independent in the landed_titles file, but it's also not the de jure vassal of anyone; there may be some hardcoded independence.)


From what I gather from the official forums (though I actually haven't tried to vassalize a pope yet) the difficulties in vassalizing the pope come from two unique facets of the papacy as implemented in the game:

The Papacy is a titular title (i.e. a title which has no de jure holdings) which automatically receives a new incumbent whenever the old one dies, and, unlike just about any other title in the game, is able to be held even by characters with no other holdings. I think the Papacy is also unique in that it does not acquire de jure holdings by de jure drift. So just conquering Rome isn't enough to vassalize the Pope. You can appoint a new bishop of Rome, but he won't be the Pope. Even if you conquer every Catholic county and eliminate every bishop, there will still be a Papacy and a Pope, listed as reigning in "an undisclosed location." The fact that the Papacy is titular means that it's impossible to fabricate claims or acquire a de jure claim, and the fact that it's a theocracy means that there are no family members who are eligible to inherit claims. The only way to usurp the Papacy is to establish an anti-Pope, who then gains a claim on the Papacy, which you can press in the usual way.

The other, much simpler issue is that the Papacy is a King-tier title (note the gold border around the Pope's portrait). CKII has a 5 tier title system (Baron-Count-Duke-King-Emperor, you can tell which rank a character is by the portrait borders: Wood-Silver-Silver with blue garland-Gold-Gold with Purple Garland) and it is an ironclad rule that you can never have a vassal whose highest-tier title is the same or higher tier than your highest-tier title. So you can only vassalize the Pope if you're already an emperor. But if you are a Catholic emperor who establishes a vassal bishop as an anti-Pope, and then you press that bishop's claim to the Papacy, this should end up with the anti-Pope becoming Pope while remaining your vassal.

(Though, as I mentioned earlier, I haven't done this myself. Maybe I should fire up the Hapsburg game that I abandoned as soon as I managed to get myself elected Holy Roman Emperor.)

Edited to add: Yep, just did it. Worked like a charm, now you too can have your own pet Pope! Also, I remembered why I had abandoned that game. Once you get used to Mediterranean or North Atlantic-based empires where you can fling 20K+ doomstacks from one end of the map to another in a matter of weeks, a land-bound empire that takes months just to gather its troops into coherent armies, let alone move them to where the action is, is just too painful for words. Especially when it seemed like a good idea to keep your demesne centrally located, which in theory should be the most efficient, but in practice just means it takes forever for your retinue and personal levies to get anywhere. Also, the HRE is too big to use the Catholic invasion CB, and doesn't have much in the way of infidel neighbors to holy war, which means my usual end-game rush to world domination is either going to bog down hopelessly or fly by in a flash depending on how successful I am in finding claimants.

User avatar
Vaniver
Posts: 9422
Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2006 2:12 am UTC

Re: Crusader Kings 2

Postby Vaniver » Fri Aug 02, 2013 3:46 am UTC

firechicago wrote:The only way to usurp the Papacy is to establish an anti-Pope, who then gains a claim on the Papacy, which you can press in the usual way. ... But if you are a Catholic emperor who establishes a vassal bishop as an anti-Pope, and then you press that bishop's claim to the Papacy, this should end up with the anti-Pope becoming Pope while remaining your vassal.
Just tested this, and it works. For the longest time it didn't, which was a major source of frustration.

Looks like Free Investiture doesn't apply to the Pope, which is unfortunate. I want my Borgia pope, dang it.

firechicago wrote:a land-bound empire that takes months just to gather its troops into coherent armies, let alone move them to where the action is, is just too painful for words.
A while ago, they updated it so your vassal would raise all dependent levies at once. So if you call the King of Greece to arms, you get a huge army at his capital. Or... wherever you choose to raise it, since you can raise it from any of his vassals. The result is that you give each of your major vassals a county somewhere easily accessible, and then you can raise all of their armies from that spot.

This does require that you have major vassals- in my current Scandinavian game, I've managed to keep all of the king titles (with one exception, which should be making its way back to me soon) on my primary character, which is a significant accomplishment given that I have ten of them and they're all on Elective. (I'm not sure my next heir will get all of them, though, which is sad.) I still have a few vassal dukes who each have 8k soldiers in their levy to me, which means I would really rather they not revolt. With king vassals this is even more necessary to manage (but, thankfully, there are way fewer of them to manage).
I mostly post over at LessWrong now.

Avatar from My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic, owned by Hasbro.

User avatar
yurell
Posts: 2924
Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2010 2:19 am UTC
Location: Australia!

Re: Crusader Kings 2

Postby yurell » Fri Aug 02, 2013 4:09 am UTC

Vaniver wrote:A while ago, they updated it so your vassal would raise all dependent levies at once. So if you call the King of Greece to arms, you get a huge army at his capital. Or... wherever you choose to raise it, since you can raise it from any of his vassals. The result is that you give each of your major vassals a county somewhere easily accessible, and then you can raise all of their armies from that spot.


They added that in with the patch that accompanied Legacy of Rome. Originally I was unimpressed, because it meant I had hundreds of thousands of soldiers in a province, starving to death, but then I realised how I could use it to just blitzkrieg enemy states & rebels, or just pop up a massive military under a large enemy army and kill them without suffering attrition.
I'm glad they patched it so the army starts with 0 morale now, though, because it was so ridiculously broken.
cemper93 wrote:Dude, I just presented an elaborate multiple fraction in Comic Sans. Who are you to question me?


Pronouns: Feminine pronouns please!

User avatar
Vaniver
Posts: 9422
Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2006 2:12 am UTC

Re: Crusader Kings 2

Postby Vaniver » Fri Aug 02, 2013 3:25 pm UTC

yurell wrote:I'm glad they patched it so the army starts with 0 morale now, though, because it was so ridiculously broken.
This does seem like a good middle ground.

Retinues are also a good way to operate once you get large enough, as they don't count as levies for declaring war and you can choose their composition, so you can have a massive army that you maneuver into place before declaring war (though it has to be in a ship or friendly territory). You find them in the military tab, if I remember correctly. Just remember to set it so they refill at the maximum rate, as they start off at 1 soldier and need to be grown up to the full 500, and if the retinue goes into battle and loses its last person you need to pay to get another one.
I mostly post over at LessWrong now.

Avatar from My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic, owned by Hasbro.

User avatar
yurell
Posts: 2924
Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2010 2:19 am UTC
Location: Australia!

Re: Crusader Kings 2

Postby yurell » Fri Aug 02, 2013 10:28 pm UTC

I think they nerfed the retinues, too; before the Old Gods patch I could have over a million soldiers in my retinue. After, less than half of that. Which is good, really, because once you became an emperor the retinue system removed all difficulty from internal pressure, as you could always have a huge standing army that could dwarf anything any vassal or two (or dozen) would throw at you. I found that once you started moving them around in blocks large enough to war with AI nations of comparable size, their levied soldiers could put a big enough dent in a retinue army that it costs insane amounts of resources to pay back — in my experience it's better to throw your levies into the meatgrinder and use your retinue to mop up afterwards.
cemper93 wrote:Dude, I just presented an elaborate multiple fraction in Comic Sans. Who are you to question me?


Pronouns: Feminine pronouns please!

User avatar
Vaniver
Posts: 9422
Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2006 2:12 am UTC

Re: Crusader Kings 2

Postby Vaniver » Thu Sep 26, 2013 4:59 pm UTC

So, if there's a woman in your prison, you can make her a concubine (i.e. you need to be pagan), regardless of her religion.

I wish I had discovered that before I crushed the Karling kingdoms. It would have been awesome to carry off some princess with claims to most of Western Europe, then have her son (who inherits her claims) as the heir, that then seizes Western Europe in a swift series of battles.
I mostly post over at LessWrong now.

Avatar from My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic, owned by Hasbro.

User avatar
setzer777
Good questions sometimes get stupid answers
Posts: 2762
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2008 9:24 am UTC

Re: Crusader Kings 2

Postby setzer777 » Fri Sep 27, 2013 3:18 pm UTC

Unusual situation: playing as Queen of León I moved to take Castille from my 5 year old inbred niece (after letting the Muslims tear up her armies first), and my husband actually sided against me! I still won easily, but that's gonna make for some awkward dinner conversations. Btw, are spouses always able to have children with each other, no matter how far apart geographically they are? Is it just assumed they make lots of visits to the other court?

Also, minimum crown authority can be a huge pain in the ass - a vassal can openly wage war against me, and it seems like I can't do anything more than imprison them as punishment - don't have the authority to revoke titles, and execution and banishment seem to cause an all-vassal opinion hit no matter how much they have it coming.

Two more random question:

1. If I'm at war with someone and they are with a garrison I have under siege, am I guaranteed to capture or kill them if I take the holding, or is there a chance of them escaping to another county?

2. The Muslim emirates seem to help each other out a lot militarily. Is it possible for me (as a Catholic) to persuade one of them to stay out of a fight, or is religion always gonna trump whatever money and such I give them?
Meaux_Pas wrote:We're here to go above and beyond.

Too infinity
of being an arsehole

User avatar
yurell
Posts: 2924
Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2010 2:19 am UTC
Location: Australia!

Re: Crusader Kings 2

Postby yurell » Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:38 pm UTC

I believe wives can be impregnated by their husbands so long as their husbands are fertile and not in prison — I don't marry someone else who is landed very often, but I don;t recall ever having problems when I did. And minimum crown authority is a right pain in the arse; anything that prevents you from revoking claims needs to be removed as soon as possible, because the impact gets worse as your kingdom/empire gets bigger and it gets harder to change.

I don't know about capturing characters inside castles; I wouldn't think that the chances are 100%, due to not getting messages most of the time I've sieged something, but things could have been altered in recent patches — I know I got it a lot with my Persian Empire.

It's quite possible to keep other Muslim nations out of wars, though, so long as you're not declaring a holy war (in which case they love to join) and they're not allied (alliances tend to happen fairly often between Muslim nations due to the whole polygamy thing).
cemper93 wrote:Dude, I just presented an elaborate multiple fraction in Comic Sans. Who are you to question me?


Pronouns: Feminine pronouns please!

User avatar
Coin
Posts: 884
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 11:21 pm UTC
Location: Uppsala
Contact:

Re: Crusader Kings 2

Postby Coin » Fri Nov 08, 2013 12:35 pm UTC

After playing a couple of rounds from various starting point I now feel confident enough to make a Let's Play.
It's going to be a kind of "rags to riches" type of story where we start out as a lowly count and try to reach for the stars but the focus is not going to be on how far we get, but on the myriad of fantastic stories that will develop on the way. Like "how the duke ended up marrying his aunt" or "how Dunkeld of Scotland became King of the Holy Lands". In other words, there will be more fluff and less min-maxing.

If you're interested you can follow it at here. I've already made a couple of posts to deal with the starting position.
EDIT: After the patching there has been a bit of a lul because of trouble with save files, but it's back on track now.
3fj wrote: "You, sir, have been added to my list of deities under 'God of Swedish meat'."

User avatar
bigglesworth
I feel like Biggles should have a title
Posts: 7461
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2007 9:29 pm UTC
Location: Airstrip One

Re: Crusader Kings 2

Postby bigglesworth » Sun Jan 19, 2014 8:11 pm UTC

That is one ambitious Irishman.
Attachments
2014-01-19_00001a.jpg
Generation Y. I don't remember the First Gulf War, but do remember floppy disks.


Return to “Gaming”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 8 guests