Swords & Potions

Of the Tabletop, and other, lesser varieties.

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Xanthir
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Swords & Potions

Postby Xanthir » Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:24 pm UTC

It's an RPG where you run a shop, like Recettear but more level-gaining. Link Here

I've started a guild, the XKCDian Trade-Sphere (XT-S). You need guild members to get some improvements in the game, so just tell me your username if you'd like an invite.
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Re: Swords & Potions

Postby brenok » Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:09 am UTC

My name is brenosakaguti, if you could add me.

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Re: Swords & Potions

Postby Gelsamel » Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:07 am UTC

I played for quite a while... then it got ridiculously repetitive and progress got slow and I couldn't bring myself to care anymore.
"Give up here?"
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Re: Swords & Potions

Postby Deva » Thu Dec 13, 2012 4:00 am UTC

Liked Recettear. Username: Devalue.
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Re: Swords & Potions

Postby Izawwlgood » Thu Dec 13, 2012 2:13 pm UTC

I just put in the order for my third craftsman shop, and once the current guild I'm in improves it for me, I'll switch over.

I find this game alarmingly addictive
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Re: Swords & Potions

Postby Gelsamel » Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:35 pm UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:I just put in the order for my third craftsman shop, and once the current guild I'm in improves it for me, I'll switch over.

I find this game alarmingly addictive


It very much is, up until a certain point.
"Give up here?"
- > No
"Do you accept defeat?"
- > No
"Do you think games are silly little things?"
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"Is it all pointless?"
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- > No

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Re: Swords & Potions

Postby Izawwlgood » Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:12 am UTC

About what is that point? I know there are players who are level +1000, but I'm lvl 20 now, and have just put in the order for my fourth craftsman station.
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Re: Swords & Potions

Postby Gelsamel » Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:09 am UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:About what is that point? I know there are players who are level +1000, but I'm lvl 20 now, and have just put in the order for my fourth craftsman station.


There is a point where you have all your stations and a decent amount of upgrades and after that the upgrades aren't getting new things... but just slightly better versions of the things you already have... and you can go through a whole bunch of days just ultimately doing the same thing before you have significantly changed anything about your shop and you're not getting interesting new items by research but just the same type of items except slightly better... then you start getting all the recipes you need to pay real money or get lucky on quests to even use.

Even then you're still just repeating the same actions every day with no true end goal. I lasted quite a while, I can't remember what part I was up to but I just got bored of the whole thing, the novelty wore off and there was nothing to sustain the gameplay for me.
"Give up here?"
- > No
"Do you accept defeat?"
- > No
"Do you think games are silly little things?"
- > No
"Is it all pointless?"
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"Do you admit there is no meaning to this world?"
- > No

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Re: Swords & Potions

Postby Deva » Sat Dec 15, 2012 5:56 am UTC

Underestimated Famous (see: extra customers). Improved Mercantile before. Worked better while researching. Struggled to sell merchandise. Decided to increase customers. Sold twelve Lucky Amulets across three days. Crafted those as quickly as possible.

(Blames poor customers, also. Chose Sorceress/Carpenter initially. Sold five carpentry items in nine days. Accepted any offer. Saw lots of armor/weapon requests.)

Edit: Created graphs. Ran out of Lucky Amulets due to researching. (Included six missed opportunities in Lucky Amulet's totals.)
Swords Potions Timeline.jpg
Covers twenty-one days.

Swords Potions Pie Chart.jpg


Never tracked other unfulfulled item requests. Should have filled every carpentry and alchemy request, except for token-gated recipes.
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Re: Swords & Potions

Postby Xeio » Sun Dec 16, 2012 6:37 am UTC

I suppose I need an invite, xeio87. Needing a guild is weeeird.

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Re: Swords & Potions

Postby Izawwlgood » Sun Dec 16, 2012 6:42 am UTC

Yeah, Deva, you absolutely need a guild. And an inactive guild will screw you up pretty good.

I'm finding multiple craftsman items to be the best. My blacksmith is the highest, but the tailor is picking up really fast with her high learning rate.

Sigh. It is fun.
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Re: Swords & Potions

Postby raudorn » Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:26 am UTC

I have to agree, this game is surprisingly addicting. Could I get an invite too? IGN is raudorn.

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Re: Swords & Potions

Postby DaBigCheez » Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:07 pm UTC

I'd appreciate an invite too while you're at it - IGN cheezy52.
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Re: Swords & Potions

Postby raudorn » Tue Dec 18, 2012 8:44 pm UTC

Ok, let's talk strategy. My current policies:
-If a customer asks for an item I can manufacture I sell it, if their offer is not too far below average.
-If it their offer is too far below average I try to haggle and then reevaluate.
-If a customer asks for an item I can't manufacture, but I have it in stock, I sell it only for a price above average.
-If a customer offers an item I can manufacture, I refuse.
-If a customer offers an item I can't manufacture, I buy it below average.
-If their offer is above average, I try to haggle and then reevaluate.
-If a customer asks for an item I don't have in stock I try to suggest another item. This however may change depending on how much money I need. Always trying to suggest items increased the average amount of money earned, but decreases the amount of fame gained. So whatever I currently need most.
-I try to keep three(tailor) or four(smith) of all items in stock.
-If the stock is full I ask the craftsman to invent new items. Until now, I've never run out of available recipes.
-I usually just keep the thug around instead of sending him on missions. A low level thug is cheap and the store protection is more important than some extra money or useless information on players.
-Always have the craftsmen do something. The less downtime, the better. I proud myself to have no significant downtime.

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Re: Swords & Potions

Postby Izawwlgood » Tue Dec 18, 2012 9:05 pm UTC

Have you gotten to multiple craftsman items? Because those are, as I see it, far and away a better use of your craftsman time, even if they result in a bit of deadtime as you sync everyone up.

Basically, the profit margins on most items is so much higher than the loss presented if someone underpays that I don't risk a lost sale very often. If someones opening bid is 30% below the typical price, I'll try and haggle it up, but otherwise it's not worth losing the sale.

My guild seems to be pretty solid and has put a lot of my improvements through. Hows the xkcd guild going?
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Re: Swords & Potions

Postby raudorn » Tue Dec 18, 2012 9:27 pm UTC

Yeah, 30%-35% seems about the same range I use too. It also somewhat depends if they ask for that 6-hour 700g sword or just some 1-hour 150g gloves.

I do have some multi-craftsmen items, but their demand is still pretty low, so I have no trouble to restock them every once in a while. But I suppose that will be different on higher levels. I also have to stop leveling my craftsmen for a while, because they're 10 levels ahead of me and I just read it's best to keep them around 5 levels of one's own. Though I don't know why.

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Re: Swords & Potions

Postby Izawwlgood » Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:04 pm UTC

People on the chat keep saying that; I can think of virtually no circumstance where high level craftsman is a bad thing. Their salaries go up, sure, but their skills do to, so they produce goods and research faster.

As an aside, the unbelievable idiocy that is the chat is... trying.
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Re: Swords & Potions

Postby DaBigCheez » Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:12 pm UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:People on the chat keep saying that; I can think of virtually no circumstance where high level craftsman is a bad thing. Their salaries go up, sure, but their skills do to, so they produce goods and research faster.

My experience right now is that my carpenter is carping faster than any possible demand already, and is currently researching the last available item he has that doesn't require cooperation or tokens; so, leveling him up to let me produce faster wouldn't really get me anywhere, and I'm barely breaking even at the city gates as-is. (Having 25/17 in the crafting skills helps - apparently all items take a multiple of 25 in each of the types, so 25 is a good cutoff, and 17 lets me build the items that require 50 of the "advanced" skill in 3 hours for that portion.) My blacksmith is constantly overworked and his production skills are more limited, though. (He's 20/25, which is kind of infuriating since it's the basic skill I need more of!)

Hopefully this will change once I get the tailor unlocked to work together, and get some more levels so the people at the gates stop being such jerks. (And, perhaps more importantly, I'm actually able to make the things they want - it seems like 80% of the people coming through the door want a leather something or elemental dust, most of the remainder want sledgehammers or swords, and nobody even cares about my bows/staves/instruments. Sledgehammers are reasonably popular, though.)

Also, you definitely want higher-level craftsmen to make the higher-value items, but right now people are usually going for the 250-350ish items, will occasionally ask for a 500ish, and maybe once a week will go for one of my steel battleaxes etc. worth more like 1k; I'm not in too much of a rush to level up my craftsmen to make 2.5k items that absolutely nobody will buy until I move districts again.
existential_elevator wrote:It's like a jigsaw puzzle of Hitler pissing on Mother Theresa. No individual piece is offensive, but together...

If you think hot women have it easy because everyone wants to have sex at them, you're both wrong and also the reason you're wrong.

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Re: Swords & Potions

Postby Izawwlgood » Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:22 pm UTC

Sure, but upselling is easier than downselling.

But yeah, your point makes sense. I'm rarely in a situation where I have a ridiculous surplus. Occasionally my sorc won't have anyone to work with and will just keep making health potions, but her learning rate is very low which is why she isn't leveling very fast.
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Re: Swords & Potions

Postby Deva » Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:50 pm UTC

General strategy:
- Never haggle while selling. Never haggle while buying from customers, except before the first sale. Fails at haggling frequently.
- Always sell, if able. Accepts half price.
- Suggests for out of stock items. Selects based on price (slightly higher) and character type (see: instruments for bards).
- Aims for five of each item. Priority: Out of stock > High demand > Low demand. Considers research after fulfilling that.
- Ignores the thug.
- Accepts all quests.
- Creates gifts with spare time.

Izawwlgood wrote:My guild seems to be pretty solid and has put a lot of my improvements through. Hows the xkcd guild going?

Nowhere.

Re: Crafter Levels: Levels them until a production increase (usually for specific items). Stores experience. Spends it all at once.

DaBigCheez wrote: ...nobody even cares about my bows/staves/instruments.

L50 Sales Breakdown.jpg
Correct. Note: Suggests potions over bows/instruments, generally. Skews the data.
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Re: Swords & Potions

Postby DaBigCheez » Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:09 pm UTC

In general, is it better to aim to only have the highest tier of a given item (e.g. once Longbows are researched, only making those and not making any more Bows or Small Bows), or to have a spread across the possible price points? I'm still not entirely clear on what the selection algorithm for the shoppers that come in is; it seems like they're more likely to ask for an item that I have stocked at some point in the past (e.g. after I bought a mana potion from some customer who came in, suddenly people started asking for mana potions even for a while after I sold it, and I don't even have a sorc), and they obviously tend to ask for items their class prefers, but I'm not sure what drives, say, a Barbarian to ask for a Sledgehammer rather than a Club.

Are invites still going out for the xkcd guild at all? It's been a few days and I haven't joined a guild yet, waiting on that invite instead, but starting to get impatient for my tailor shop. Can guild invites be extended to someone who's currently in a guild? Are there any real downsides (burning bridges, delay periods, etc.) to just joining a guild, using their IPs to finish building my workshop, and then leaving again?
existential_elevator wrote:It's like a jigsaw puzzle of Hitler pissing on Mother Theresa. No individual piece is offensive, but together...

If you think hot women have it easy because everyone wants to have sex at them, you're both wrong and also the reason you're wrong.

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Re: Swords & Potions

Postby Izawwlgood » Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:21 pm UTC

Take a look at how your guild does in the challenge; if they aren't ranking in the multiple millions of gold, is say its a useless inactive guild.

And in terms of production, don't bother building lower tier items. Again, up selling is easier than down selling.
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Re: Swords & Potions

Postby Deva » Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:23 pm UTC

Purchases based upon reputation, probably. Considers the two highest tier items "High Demand", usually. Requests the second and third highest Alchemy items, currently.

Trade Sphere.png
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Re: Swords & Potions

Postby Izawwlgood » Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:34 pm UTC

oh YOU"RE Devalue... Deva Lue. Derp. Sorry Deva!
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Re: Swords & Potions

Postby Deva » Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:39 pm UTC

Smiles. Explains the gifts, probably.
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Re: Swords & Potions

Postby Izawwlgood » Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:47 pm UTC

Milking me for all the xp you can. Actually, I've gotten two rares from you, so, that's cool. Not sure how what's in a gift works, given that any crafter can build gifts and they're all piled together.

If you guys want I can push for guild invites; I think I lucked out and just happened to fall into a good one. Alternatively we can try and get some activity going in the xkcd one, but I think with less than a dozen or so people, you won't get very far.
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Re: Swords & Potions

Postby Deva » Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:55 pm UTC

Determines gift contents by the recipient's level.

Requires forming a new XKCD guild. Cannot invite without leadership. Appears as "Guest". Assumes that as a bad omen. Accepts either course of action.
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Re: Swords & Potions

Postby DaBigCheez » Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:02 am UTC

I personally would like to revitalize or reform a/the XKCD guild, but accept that we may not have enough membership to make that practical.
existential_elevator wrote:It's like a jigsaw puzzle of Hitler pissing on Mother Theresa. No individual piece is offensive, but together...

If you think hot women have it easy because everyone wants to have sex at them, you're both wrong and also the reason you're wrong.

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Re: Swords & Potions

Postby Izawwlgood » Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:30 am UTC

Guilds allow you to funnel improvement points at other guildies, which is important, but it also takes a cut of every ones earnings and applies it to a challenge; the winner of those challenges get other perks and bonuses, so, unless we have on the order of 10 or so people, it might be a really unproductive endeavor. But that said, it could be totes possible to funnel sufficient improvement points back and forth with 5-6 of us.
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Re: Swords & Potions

Postby Xanthir » Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:50 am UTC

Deva wrote:Determines gift contents by the recipient's level.

Requires forming a new XKCD guild. Cannot invite without leadership. Appears as "Guest". Assumes that as a bad omen. Accepts either course of action.

Sorry, I'm the leader, but have been busy at work. If I can transfer ownership of the guild, I'll gladly do so.

I'm a Guest account because I never logged into Kongregate.
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Re: Swords & Potions

Postby Deva » Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:53 am UTC

Happens. Hit Delegate at the guild screen. Transfers leadership.
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Re: Swords & Potions

Postby Xanthir » Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:00 am UTC

Done. Have fun, Deva. There are a couple of people in this thread who have requested entrance: cheezy52, xeio87, brenosakaguti
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Re: Swords & Potions

Postby Deva » Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:05 am UTC

Thanks. Invited everyone. Please ask if you did not receive an invitation.

Edit: Has twenty license points. What do people like? Options:
1. Protection I (Defense versus thugs). Five license points.
2. Aggression I (Offense for thugs). Five license points.
3. Alliance II (Increases guild capacity by five). Ten license points. (Note: Allows four members now. May go over capacity. Reduces contributions towards guild challenges, however.)
4. Cooperation I (Increases cooperation points for workers. Decreases time for multiple worker projects). Five license points.

Likes Alliance II and Cooperation I. Could take two Cooperation bonuses also.
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Re: Swords & Potions

Postby raudorn » Wed Dec 19, 2012 7:54 am UTC

I'd like to suggest Alliance II, since I got an invite, but the guild seems to be full. :wink:

Edit: I also noticed you can't improve your own upgrades, even when in a guild. That sucks. I was hoping getting a carpenter and sorceress would kickstart me into getting everything by myself, if necessary.

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Re: Swords & Potions

Postby DaBigCheez » Wed Dec 19, 2012 8:05 am UTC

I feel like Alliance and Cooperation are good short-term goals, since we're mostly too low-level for Thugs to be worth messing with. It looks like we should have some more license points to work with soon, since those competing in our current Challenge all seem to be completely inactive (though they may just be in different timezones).
existential_elevator wrote:It's like a jigsaw puzzle of Hitler pissing on Mother Theresa. No individual piece is offensive, but together...

If you think hot women have it easy because everyone wants to have sex at them, you're both wrong and also the reason you're wrong.

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Re: Swords & Potions

Postby Deva » Wed Dec 19, 2012 8:17 am UTC

Purchased Alliance II and Cooperation I. Will re-invite if necessary.

Guild Challenge Summary:
- Contributes gold automatically. Does not affect your money.
- May contribute extra gold, based on a day's sales. Costs you money. (Unnecessary, currently.)
- Lasts for forty-eight hours. Begins a new one...probably immediately afterward.
- Wins ten license points for first place. Increases with certain guild perks.

First Guild Challenge: Completely inactive.
Second Guild Challenge: Logged on once. Inactive otherwise.
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Re: Swords & Potions

Postby Spambot5546 » Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:38 pm UTC

I'm in with the same name I have here. Invite, please!

Is there any way to do research without using the coins the game starts you with? When I was playing without being logged in it worked just fine, but now that I have these coins it wants me to pay for instant unlocks rather than having my guys do the research.
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Re: Swords & Potions

Postby PeteP » Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:53 pm UTC

What does market affinity do?

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Re: Swords & Potions

Postby Izawwlgood » Wed Dec 19, 2012 3:31 pm UTC

I think it ups average offering value for customer purchases and drops average offering value for customer sales.
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Re: Swords & Potions

Postby raudorn » Wed Dec 19, 2012 4:08 pm UTC

Really? I thought it increases the chance of customers asking for items I have in stock. Then again, I don't know jack about what half of the game does.

I'm a bit annoyed at that "needs special coins to research" for those magical items, but I'm doing fine without them, so they can't be that important.


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