Oculus Rift and Virtual Reality in general

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infernovia
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Oculus Rift and Virtual Reality in general

Postby infernovia » Tue Jan 15, 2013 1:42 am UTC

I am surprised that there hasn't been a topic discussing this already, so here it is.

http://www.oculusvr.com/

Pretty good interview:
http://www.mtbs3d.com/index.php?option= ... &Itemid=75
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpV7qq1vyd4

Some on the spot reactions:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJo12Hz_BVI

Great discussion between Carmack, Abrash and Palmer about the state of VR:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... aqQdyfAz8#!

Oculus Rift is a head-mounted display (a screen in front of your eyes, usually in the form of goggles), but it's getting a lot of hype because it is one created solely for needs of gaming. Here are the core things to get excited about.

- 110 degrees field of vision, pretty much taking most of your peripheral vision and basically making it really hard to see the edge of the screen. ~Usual consumer HMD range from 30 - 45.~
- Stereoscopic 3D. Without the edge of the screen as reference, it really adds the sense of being there.
- Low latency tracking. 1000 hz. You turn, the input is sent almost immediately and updated on the screen pretty rapidly.
- Low lag in terms of relative competition atm. I think the figure is 40ms from the initiation of the turn to screen update, not sure though. ~Most HMD (as in, all non-military ones)do not have this, and if they do, there is a significant lag.~
- 9 Degree of Freedom in terms of tracking. You can turn your head left and right, look up and down, and tilt your head to each shoulder. It does not have true position tracking, so it doesn't track leaning with your body, but it's pretty solid for now.
- Updating screens in the pixel is also pretty low in terms of latency.
- Only thing is you can kinda see the pixel grid due to the low resolution, but it's light and doesn't weigh that much.


This can have dramatic impact on design of games, I think it's a huge game changer. By separating the looking from your hands, it should immediately be able to create more complex and interesting simulations. It's also very natural to look with the headset, increasing immersion by a huge margin. Imagine playing flight simulators, horror games, or anything in first person perspective really. And even 3rd person games could work well if built around the model of GunValkyrie/Gears of War. This is also the first time that players will be able to slow down and really look at the environment the developers built closely.

This isn't meant to be a consumer device, they are waiting on feedback from the developers before they do that, but you can get a preview of the stuff coming soon. You can pre-order the devkit, which comes with DOOM 3: BFG with Hawken promising to add support for VR. It is also supported by Unity and Unreal 3. There is also a significant attempt for attempting to get old games (like Mirror Edge) to work with VR so it's really a pretty exciting time.

Needless to say, I am pumped!
Last edited by infernovia on Fri Jan 18, 2013 3:38 pm UTC, edited 8 times in total.

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Re: Oculus Rift and Virtual Reality in general

Postby raudorn » Tue Jan 15, 2013 7:57 am UTC

What I never understood is how I am supposed to focus on those things. I just can't focus on anything that's closer than 20cm to my eyes, 30cm without eyesore after a while. So how does this work? I guess with projectors or lenses you could achieve additional focusing so take some work of the eyes, but those things are just screens really, really close to your eyes?

That aside, I also hope that I could finally view 3D in actual 3D. With 18/9 vision* the technology in movies never properly worked for me. Oh and the most important thing: No longer shaky cams! All that camera motion in modern FPS is neat, but can be nauseating.

*That's not the actual values, I have no idea. But my right eye is so bad, I can't read faces with glasses on.

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Re: Oculus Rift and Virtual Reality in general

Postby infernovia » Tue Jan 15, 2013 7:13 pm UTC

I have heard this more than once, but I don't really see the issue, can you explain more? I mean in terms of normal vision, all you really have to do is use the lens to send the light in this manner before it goes through your lens right? http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... Myopia.gif

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Re: Oculus Rift and Virtual Reality in general

Postby New User » Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:46 pm UTC

It looks cool, but the final words on the promotional video were, "make a pledge, and help us change gaming forever." I don't see that happening. This device will never be as ubiquitous as a computer monitor. Some games might be developed with this device in mind, and support the type of immersive 3D environment needed to be compatible. Those same games will also have a "normal" setting for normal displays. Computer monitors will be the norm, far outnumbering the gamers who use the Oculus Rift. This means that developers will have to work harder to implement support for a device owned and used by only a small percentage of the target demographic, which many companies will see as a suboptimal use of development resources. This will lead to some developers scrapping that implementation to save time and money, which will decrease the amount of games being developed that support the Oculus Rift. A smaller library of supported software means less consumers will buy the Rift. It's a negative feedback loop.
In short, it won't catch on like the Oculus developers hope it will. It won't change gaming forever. It's a gadget for a niche market only. At least, that is my prediction.

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Re: Oculus Rift and Virtual Reality in general

Postby raudorn » Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:26 pm UTC

infernovia wrote:I have heard this more than once, but I don't really see the issue, can you explain more? I mean in terms of normal vision, all you really have to do is use the lens to send the light in this manner before it goes through your lens right? http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... Myopia.gif


I watched some videos about the Oculus and now I think that's exactly what they are doing. I saw some shiny plastic sheets on the inside, that could act as lenses, but they didn't say anything specific about it. That is what I was refering to, as I did not know how they solved this issue. Which of course brings us to the next issue: Customized lenses for people with visual impairment (even as minor as 19/19 vision). Or enough space to squeeze in the regular glasses inbetween the Oculus and face. :D

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Re: Oculus Rift and Virtual Reality in general

Postby infernovia » Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:45 pm UTC

raudorn wrote:I watched some videos about the Oculus and now I think that's exactly what they are doing. I saw some shiny plastic sheets on the inside, that could act as lenses, but they didn't say anything specific about it. That is what I was refering to, as I did not know how they solved this issue. Which of course brings us to the next issue: Customized lenses for people with visual impairment (even as minor as 19/19 vision). Or enough space to squeeze in the regular glasses inbetween the Oculus and face. :D

That's definitely on the plate for the consumer version, I will be curious to see how they solve it, but right now you are just going to deal with more space between you and the goggles. And you can, of course, try to hack it. It was primarily supposed to be off the shelf parts anyway.

New User wrote:It looks cool, but the final words on the promotional video were, "make a pledge, and help us change gaming forever." I don't see that happening. This device will never be as ubiquitous as a computer monitor. Some games might be developed with this device in mind, and support the type of immersive 3D environment needed to be compatible. Those same games will also have a "normal" setting for normal displays. Computer monitors will be the norm, far outnumbering the gamers who use the Oculus Rift. This means that developers will have to work harder to implement support for a device owned and used by only a small percentage of the target demographic, which many companies will see as a suboptimal use of development resources. This will lead to some developers scrapping that implementation to save time and money, which will decrease the amount of games being developed that support the Oculus Rift. A smaller library of supported software means less consumers will buy the Rift. It's a negative feedback loop.
In short, it won't catch on like the Oculus developers hope it will. It won't change gaming forever. It's a gadget for a niche market only. At least, that is my prediction.

This is pretty myopic.

a) it's not monitors, but games that will be changed. So what if monitors are used by a lot of people? So what if game developers don't fully adhere to Oculus Rift? The point is that this is a huge jump in immersion and people will buy it just for THAT because it is exciting. Gamers and game developers are excited about the future as much as they want to make money. That's why they got into this business right?

b) Do you really think you could go back to looking at a regular monitor after seeing an immersive 3D world where you feel like you are actually there? With depth perception, with head tracking, with wide FOV? Verge says looking at a game world with a standard monitor feels completely archaic, and I think everyone is expecting it to be something similar. How great would it be to finally break the look/shoot/move model and actually naturally look around without affecting your movement?

c) I don't care if it takes 10 years for a game company to fully commit to this experience. When it happens, it will still be a cutting edge game and it will still be at a higher level than the older games. Even if this fails, a lot of big companies now know what they need to shoot for. And in that sense, I think the Oculus Rift has a really great shot at success. It is also the biggest jump in technology of note since 3D games really started coming into their potential.

d) This is a PC peripherial. There is huge interest. People are making mods for their favorite games and there are some commercial endeavors and mods are pretty much ubiquitous.

Edit: updated the top post with this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpV7qq1vyd4 Pretty good interview.

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Re: Oculus Rift and Virtual Reality in general

Postby Gelsamel » Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:20 am UTC

I want the OR so god damn bad. I want it now, gimme!
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Re: Oculus Rift and Virtual Reality in general

Postby infernovia » Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:58 am UTC

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... aqQdyfAz8#!

Pretty good summary about the major focus on VR and where things are at, why it hadn't been done before, and why you should look forward to it's future. It's a pretty good talk, highly recommended.

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Re: Oculus Rift and Virtual Reality in general

Postby Woopate » Fri Jan 18, 2013 3:49 am UTC

I think a key point in VR gaming will be how simple it will be to map it to older games. If the head tracking can decently map to mouse coordinates rather than keypresses for "look left" "look right" etc, and have a minimal point of view drift (not sure what official terms for these things are). Bare bones is this: if I can play skyrim(a game with high immersion focus to start with) with them and not have to constantly stop to recenter the headset, this will go a long way to improve buyability for me.

I'll probably still be picking up an OR for Star Citizen, methinks.

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Re: Oculus Rift and Virtual Reality in general

Postby infernovia » Fri Jan 18, 2013 7:41 am UTC

A lot of people are interested in or metion Skyrim, me not so much. The world just seems really empty to me, and the aesthetic is just ok, realistic, even detailed, but not something I would want on my wall. But yeah, there are a lot of people interested in the same thing as you, and they created this project:

http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=140&t=15570

The issue, in my opinion, won't be the drift (unless there are some automatic mouse calibration or something) but how the angular rotation of the eyes matches with the mouse look especially when they mess around with acceleration and stuff. An issue I am sure many in depth flight simulator players already need to solve with headtrackers. And apparently people have had pretty decent success with that already. http://www.naturalpoint.com/trackir/

It will be interesting seeing those old games in this new technology, as I think they are really going to have to change up their graphic design and increase their quality. As the bigger issue is, how the hell is the game going to play now that it consumes your entire world? If you read up about it, the full immersion that you get from the rift means that things you don't normally notice, like latency to get your screen to update (which is usually 16ms in normal screens, if you ignore screen delay and input processing delay), becomes a big deal as your brain expects full immersion. Any texturing to create the illusion of 3D objects, like vents, immediately jumps out to you whereas in a normal monitor you would barely notice. At the same time, a lot of artist effort that you rushed by, you will most likely get more engrossed now that it's much more natural to look at it. And there are effects that work ok in a monitor but don't work well in VR. Carmack had to eliminate the motion of getting pushed back when hit from Doom 3 for the Rift because it would cause motion sickness. Skyrim's sky, which is just a box/2D texture becomes very very obvious in 3D stereoscopic 90 FOV. HUD elements, which work ok in monitors will effectively be dead in VR, this makes me really excited about Aliens: Colonial Marines.
Last edited by infernovia on Fri Jan 18, 2013 3:35 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Oculus Rift and Virtual Reality in general

Postby Woopate » Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:08 am UTC

I'm certain there will be a degree of suspension of disbelief involved with VR, and that the backflips we'll ask of our perceptions will be different than that of monitors. The latency issue is one I've heard about, and it's an extremely technical question I'm not renotely qualified to comment on, except that I'm looking forward to a resolution.

I think a big part of accepting the limitations of the medium will come when people use non-realistic games with it. Cell shaded games, or a first person "side-scroller" where you can see a wall on your left and a pit on your right, and your only direction choices are forward/backward, jump and crouch. A few good games where the point isn't to look realistic, and I bet our brains will do a bunch of the legwork for us.

The head tilting thing is an interesting point, and a potential showstopper for older games. If your sitting at a corner and you want to get a look, so you tilt your head and nothing happens? Instant immersion break. Forgive me if these points are addressed in the linked videos, my bandwidth is limited, and I'm too bored to avoid posting.

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Re: Oculus Rift and Virtual Reality in general

Postby 3fj » Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:17 am UTC

infernovia wrote: HUD elements, which work ok in monitors will effectively be dead in VR, this makes me really excited about Aliens: Colonial Marines.

You make some really good points but I take issue with that. Aren't a lot of HUD elements supposed to be in front of your face as if on a helmet screen anyway? Obviously this isn't the case for games set in an older time period, but I agree with Woopate in that a lot of things like this that work on a monitor already require out brain to do most of the legwork in the form of a willing suspension of disbelief. I don't see why that would disappear in VR.
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Re: Oculus Rift and Virtual Reality in general

Postby infernovia » Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:08 pm UTC

Because our requirements for VR is way way higher than a screen's. With a monitor, you can suspend more because it's not encompassing your total vision and your brain understands that it's looking at a picture. With VR, bugs/illusion break can potentially cause your brain to think you are poisoned, because it almost believes that it's there. There is no "reality" to anchor it. It might be that some of those things are well integrated and look great, but I am pretty sure most of them are going to be floating bars and numbers that will break immersion from the game and we will have to change up our menu system.

I mean, FPS isn't the only place that this will work well, I am sure 3rd person and total war style strategy games, or even god games would work well. I am just pretty curious to see how big of a difference this makes.

Edit: Actually cell shaded games would be interesting to look at. Not sure if it would look good, but interesting.

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Re: Oculus Rift and Virtual Reality in general

Postby Woopate » Sat Jan 19, 2013 5:44 am UTC

I really just want to get one on my head and see for myself instead of all of this meaningless prediction nonsense. There's a recent pcgamer article where the writer says he actually tried to catch a snowflake on his tongue he was so immersed. If that's not hyperbole, I'd be really excited to see a multiplayer game with actual roleplay, or servers dedicated to roleplay. People want to be the characters they learn about in escapist fiction, at least somewhat. This could be a new chapter in that. As well, roleplay servers are where I have by far found the most immersion in games, how deeply you could get in-character when you are sensing the things your character is would be extraordinary. In such a game, I think I'd still prefer a text representation for communication. It's abstraction lets me "hear" the voice of the character. It would be quite jarring for an evil undead wizard to pipe up with a high-pitch preadolescent voice. Especially if I've already mostly fooled my senses into believing this fictional world.

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Re: Oculus Rift and Virtual Reality in general

Postby infernovia » Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:02 am UTC

Actually, nvm, I think roleplay servers have a long way to go.

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Re: Oculus Rift and Virtual Reality in general

Postby Woopate » Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:10 am UTC

Now I want to know what you said pre-edit. I agree that roleplay servers have a long way to go.

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Re: Oculus Rift and Virtual Reality in general

Postby infernovia » Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:18 am UTC

I don't think you can get better roleplaying experience outside of campaign mode in games, especially co-op/competitive with a predefined group and set rules. Otherwise you have too much possibility of trolling or breaking character. In that sense, I don't think the roleplaying will be that much deeper than now.

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Re: Oculus Rift and Virtual Reality in general

Postby Woopate » Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:58 am UTC

It's extraordinarily hit or miss, but every now and then a successful roleplay community will emerge. The biggest factor is the ability to enforce, I believe. Where moderators can penalize for being out of character at wrong times, and reward for successful roleplay. Another important factor is being allowed to tell your own stories without having others force theirs on you. The rules needed to create a successful roleplay community can't be built into a game, only the tools given to moderators to enforce them. I think this is a big reason for why it's so rare.

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Re: Oculus Rift and Virtual Reality in general

Postby infernovia » Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:39 pm UTC

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... STge5IDxF4

Cool (if not smooth), It says it moves at 250 hz, so about 4ms lag? but I never really see the point of modelling walking and stuff. It's not like you can actually move around by walking, there is a big limitation in terms of physical space. I think, atm, I will be happy with just head positions and being able to lean forward and lean back.

Modelling the hand would be pretty sweet, admittedly.

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Re: Oculus Rift and Virtual Reality in general

Postby raudorn » Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:11 pm UTC

There are already some headbands that read facial muscle impulses and general brain wave patterns (alpha, beta, gamma) that can be used for WASD movement. Combine this with this setup and the movement issue is kind of solved. "Thought" controlled xyz movement and motion capture for the avatar body motion. The Oculus would just make sense in this setup. Then again, working with no less than three on-the-edge technologies is not exactly easy.

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Re: Oculus Rift and Virtual Reality in general

Postby infernovia » Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:35 pm UTC

According to Mike Abrash (I am going to have to take his word for it), none of them are at a state where it's useful for intuitive and smooth movement. And what are you going to do, frown to move forward or something? Is that really more immersive than twiddling a left analog stick forward? So it's "solved" in the sense that yes eventually that's going to happen, but as for right now, there are some serious issues in terms of latency and processing.

Citation: http://blogs.valvesoftware.com/abrash/ Somewhere in here. It's in the comments section and so it's really annoying to find. Highly recommended site if you guys are interested in this stuff.

Found it: http://blogs.valvesoftware.com/abrash/t ... /#comments

First comment, EEG application.

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Re: Oculus Rift and Virtual Reality in general

Postby raudorn » Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:10 pm UTC

Supposedly you don't have to actually perform the input "binding" just thinking about it should suffice (just like you can think about moving a muscle without actually doing so), although that's apparantly still a sensitivity problem. There are videos like this of people using such devices in FPS, so the situation can't really be that bad. Yes, it's not as tried and true as a keyboard or gamepad, but one can hardly call motion capture or even the upcoming Oculus really elaborate and reliable, so I give EEG-devices the benefit of the doubt.

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Re: Oculus Rift and Virtual Reality in general

Postby infernovia » Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:55 am UTC

Straight off of the uploader:

so whats now..after 2 years?

Not much really - The amount of calibration time needed meant that further progress was annoying rather than fun, and got in the way of any other things made for it. Their are newer drivers which are much, much nicer and come with a 3d game to test it with, but still the same problems.


Also:
http://www.overclock3d.net/reviews/inpu ... _the_log/1
http://www.joystiq.com/2010/01/27/revie ... ding-cont/

Basically, you need to retrain your brain and focus in completely unnatural way to start moving and utilizaing. it's not as smooth as plugging in a headset, putting it on, moving your neck around, and an immersive world moving with you. That's the point you know, making things easier to immerse yourself in the world, not harder. An HMD with wide FOV and low latency tracking is just one of the first breakthroughs we had in the VR department where it does increase immersion without a lot of sacrifice.

So again, it's a "solved issue" in the same way that VR is "solved." That is, we know what we want but the process of getting there is tough and difficult with real issues and complication. Also, I would consider the Oculus Rift as much more reliable than the ocz nia.

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Re: Oculus Rift and Virtual Reality in general

Postby raudorn » Sun Jan 20, 2013 10:25 am UTC

Okay, I admit 'solved' was a poor choice of words, let's say 'potential solution'. I brought EEG-devices up in response to the motion capure technology mentioned above. In that case a keyboard/gamepad is not a viable solution option and a EEG headband might just make the difference. They are on the right track and while the current state of HMD is more advanced than the current state of EEG headbands, I think they will both eventually reach the variety and reliability of standard input/output devices.

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Re: Oculus Rift and Virtual Reality in general

Postby infernovia » Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:59 am UTC

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... d3-eiid-Uw

Probably the easiest way to see what position tracking adds. Eventually we will get there with VR, but not atm.

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Re: Oculus Rift and Virtual Reality in general

Postby infernovia » Sat Mar 09, 2013 9:51 pm UTC

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... wknXZ_fR0#!

Omni Directional treadmill. Saw this in development, but it might go to crowd funding. Do you think there is a market for it? Personally, I don't think so.

Oh and apparently the Rift is shipping with 3 different lenses to try to make it easier on the glasses wearing folks!

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Re: Oculus Rift and Virtual Reality in general

Postby PeteP » Sun Mar 10, 2013 12:34 pm UTC

I ordered one a few days ago, maybe I should have waited for the consumer Version but whatever. I considered getting a smartphone, but looking at the prices I thought "hey I could get a Dev kit for this price", so I ordered one instead.

About the three lenses, I find it a bit irritating if my glasses are slightly off and with just three different lenses it's unlikely for them to fit perfectly. But I have contact lenses, so it doesn't matter.

Edit:
Woopate wrote:It's extraordinarily hit or miss, but every now and then a successful roleplay community will emerge. The biggest factor is the ability to enforce, I believe. Where moderators can penalize for being out of character at wrong times, and reward for successful roleplay. Another important factor is being allowed to tell your own stories without having others force theirs on you. The rules needed to create a successful roleplay community can't be built into a game, only the tools given to moderators to enforce them. I think this is a big reason for why it's so rare.


I played a bit on an Ultima Online free shard. it works decently in small communities which can make their own rules and where you don't have to let everyone on the server. But I never tried to roleplay on an official server of any game. About text communication, typing with something like an rift on your head requires you to type blind and forces you to let go of the controls. I think if you want text, speech to text should be integrated. Speech to text has gotten much better so maybe it's actually practical to do that now. Though if the problem is that people have unfitting voices, you could try changing the voice on the software side. But I have no idea whether voice changers sound good (and how fast they work), so I don't know whether that is practical.
Anyway I think VR elements would improve the experience of an RPG.

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Re: Oculus Rift and Virtual Reality in general

Postby infernovia » Sat Mar 16, 2013 4:20 pm UTC

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-n1nr9C6JMk

Pretty sweet, no wires helps with the whole turning dilemma.

Edit: The video shows how to use a phone to run Quake 2 jacked into a self built Rift. As there is no external processing, there are no wires. In addition to that, there is a slider bar that changes the distance the lens is from your eye.
Last edited by infernovia on Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:01 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Oculus Rift and Virtual Reality in general

Postby PeteP » Mon Mar 18, 2013 7:29 pm UTC

Valve is modifying TF2 for the rift.http://www.engadget.com/2013/03/18/valve-joe-ludwig-interview/http://www.engadget.com/2013/03/18/valve-hands-on-vr-mode/ I'm not particularly interested in shooters, and I don't know if a fast paced shooter is ideal. Endgadgets test was luke warm, too.
However I think that if it works decently and they add it to more games, it would be great news for the Rift. It won't work as well as games made with the rift in mind, but Valve games are popular and they seem to have looked into VR for a while now, so their next game might actually work well for VR. (Though obviously they wouldn't make adaptions which make it work worse with a monitor.)

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Re: Oculus Rift and Virtual Reality in general

Postby Gelsamel » Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:27 pm UTC

Honestly I think TF2 is a bit too colorful to have right up against my eyes. I feel like Oculus Rift will work better with less saturated colors.
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Re: Oculus Rift and Virtual Reality in general

Postby Derek » Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:33 pm UTC

Gelsamel wrote:Honestly I think TF2 is a bit too colorful to have right up against my eyes. I feel like Oculus Rift will work better with less saturated colors.

Well you can always manually turn down color saturation. I don't think it will be a problem though.

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Re: Oculus Rift and Virtual Reality in general

Postby infernovia » Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:59 pm UTC

Not sure how laggy multiplayer is going to work with VR, especially where the turning is not as good as a mouse. The engadget article is also on point on talking about the multiplayer not taking advantage of VR, especially something that is not really known to be visually stunning like TF2.

Whatever. After the Doom 3:BFG cancellation, it will at least this will pacify those who are really only here for the games.

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Re: Oculus Rift and Virtual Reality in general

Postby Derek » Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:24 pm UTC

infernovia wrote:Not sure how laggy multiplayer is going to work with VR, especially where the turning is not as good as a mouse.

With modern lag compensation it shouldn't be an issue. In particular, aiming is always handled entirely client side, and movement is mostly client side with very small corrections from the server. The things that appear or feel laggy are other players' movement, getting hit, and hitting others. These should be the same regardless of whether or not you're using VR.

VR does have it's own latency between turning your head and updating the screen accordingly, which is one of the big issues that they have been working on, but this is unrelated to network issues.

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Re: Oculus Rift and Virtual Reality in general

Postby infernovia » Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:38 pm UTC

Yes, but lag in VR is different than lag in a regular screen.

So what you are telling me is that since the environment can be entirely rendered on the client side along with the aiming mechanism, the VR should still be stable for you aside from players popping in and out or getting blown to bits by a rocket that you should have seen. That's correct, if true. I have seen stutters, but I don't particularly play multi player FPSes so I might just be talking about some abberration which might have been fixed a while ago, or might be talking about games without enough infrastructure.

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Re: Oculus Rift and Virtual Reality in general

Postby Derek » Tue Mar 19, 2013 1:17 am UTC

infernovia wrote:So what you are telling me is that since the environment can be entirely rendered on the client side along with the aiming mechanism, the VR should still be stable for you aside from players popping in and out or getting blown to bits by a rocket that you should have seen. That's correct, if true. I have seen stutters, but I don't particularly play multi player FPSes so I might just be talking about some abberration which might have been fixed a while ago, or might be talking about games without enough infrastructure.

If by stutters you mean where a player's position suddenly changes (also called rubber banding), this is not usually a problem with modern games and a stable ping less than 100 (or even 150) ms. It can still happen if your ping is jumpy, or if it's really high, because the server can't properly predict your motion and has to send larger corrections as a result. On a typical broadband connection, they are pretty rare.

They probably would be felt a lot more with VR though, so if it were happening once every couple minutes, which would be ok normally, it might be intolerable with VR.

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Re: Oculus Rift and Virtual Reality in general

Postby infernovia » Tue Mar 19, 2013 1:49 am UTC

Yeah, I mean rubber banding. But like I said, I might be off in a stone age.

So the Gallery is live on the kickstarter, it's built from the ground up for VR. I don't know if I am allowed to post that, as it is a kickstarter, but it's pretty interesting. I am looking forward to seeing Escher's paintings in 3D lol, we will see how much I freak out as I look down from a great height. I am pretty naturally afraid of heights, but I am ok with putting myself in those situations. Thinking about it makes my palm sweat, and I hope it is as awesome as I am imagining it.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000 ... 1362785861

Also, some interesting issues with modding old games with VR: http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=140&t=16637 Because guns are usually HUD, it has some interesting effects in stereoscopic 3D. Like being behind floors. :P

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Re: Oculus Rift and Virtual Reality in general

Postby PeteP » Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:49 am UTC

Rubber banding, would be quite weird with a HMD, and while it doesn't happen that much in modern games, it can still happen when it gets laggy. Well before trying out a HMD I won't know how much of an problem that is

http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=140&t=16734 People on the mtbs3d forum are starting to display the worst properties of fanboys. They have one vague image from somewhere, start speculating and half of them take their theories as confirmed and are all "Oh me yarm the new display sucks, everything is ruined". Even if they turn out to be true it's kinda sad to look at...

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Re: Oculus Rift and Virtual Reality in general

Postby infernovia » Tue Mar 19, 2013 1:04 pm UTC

Meh, it's kinda been shitty for a while. There are other threads where the new kids seem to be worshipping this as the holy grail, unalterable devotion to the oculus brand (legit fanatics). Basically, I have found that the oculus forum is generally shit and you should be paying more attention to the VR/AR research development or general VR/AR discussion. Unfortunately, the oculus subforum has become the place of most activity, so half of the new ideas go there for notoriety.

Edit: I do want to mention that I don't have an issue with people asking some legit questions, I thought that the first 4 2 pages were alright and solidly speculative. Just the last few pages are like... lol.

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Re: Oculus Rift and Virtual Reality in general

Postby infernovia » Thu Mar 21, 2013 7:09 pm UTC


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Re: Oculus Rift and Virtual the dreaming in general

Postby PeteP » Sat Mar 30, 2013 4:44 pm UTC

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07IwxUD8N8E Rift+ Razer Hydra. Could be intuitive and fun for the simple tasks. But I don't want to use motion controls for rpg fights, it's much easier to pull of cool moves if you only have to press 1 button. (Well I want to use motion controls for sword fighting, I pledged for Clang after all. But that will probably be to exhausting for a normal RPG.)
Now excuse me I have to build a killer app for the japanese market the chikan simulator 2013. (Hmm maybe a bit unfair, but looking at the games that exist now, I have little doubt that motion control will be used that way if it becomes more popular.)


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