Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi

[Chen]

You quoted instead of spoilered that last bit. Please fix that. I already knew that but people are going to be pissed otherwise!

[SecondTalon]

People like me, for example.

[OP Tipping]

Holy damn. Sorry times a million... I've become what I despise.

[Tyndmyr]

I'm just gonna copy my rant over from another forum.

Now, I'm gonna caveat this by saying that the movie wasn't the worst I've seen. It's a shade below 7. So, if you enjoyed 7, 8 will probably be decent for you.

For calibration purposes, I enjoyed watching 7, but was annoyed at the "bigger, badder death star" and similar moves.


Problems I had with the film:

Spoiler:

1. Flying magical jedi space jesus.
2. That the above is Leia. This was literally the strangest, dumbest thing they could have done. The entire sequence was unnecessary, sets up nothing, and was freaking strange.
3. We spend like an hour with the movie fanboying over Luke Skywalker, and getting him to leave the island. He doesn't leave the island.
4. The entire plot could have been replaced with a reasonable thirty second conversation between people on the same team with nothing better to do, and basically everyone would be alive. Everyone prefers to be a smarmy dicks instead of reasonably addressing problems.
5. The above is referring to the Rebels. I'd be okay with the Imperials being smarmy dicks instead of raving lunatics.
6. There is a complete lack of consistency. As one example, you can, on screen, see nearly all the speeders destroyed, and then all but one turn back. It's a plot point. It's very clear, and they take great pains to show this. That one is then intercepted by another one coming from ahead of it. This is not even vaguely reasonable given what we are shown.
7. The Rebellion is now like twelve people. So much for Space Opera.
8. Rey's parents, despite being teased endlessly, never appear, and are simply said to be nobodys. Again. WHY BRING ALL THIS UP TO BEGIN WITH? It's a stupid mystery with no payoff.
9. Lightspeed physics in the new movies just works at the speed of plot. Interdiction cruisers no longer exist, spacegas works in very finite, fixed ways that make no sense. And suicide bombing is awesome. And shockingly effect, to the point where you wonder why nobody has ever done this before. And totally respected. Until ten minutes later, when it's morally unacceptable.
10. Janitor becomes secret agent/fighter pilot in approximately ten minutes with no training. In fairness, this is still a less ludicrous power jump than Rey demonstrates.
11. They enumerate the number of transports, and take pains to show them all, with many exploding. Every time they cut back to it, there are more transports there to be exploded. It's sorta at ol-cowboy-movie-six-shooter levels of dumb.
12. The Rebels built a base, and forgot it was there, until someone we've never seen before remembers it in the third act. Fortunately, it was in exactly the right place for the newly limited spacegas to get them to. Also, they don't remember that it has a second door. Despite the doors being goddamned huge. And the second door being directly in LOS to the first door. They literally failed at looking across a room.
13. Luke materializes a heretofore unknown set of dice as a meaningful present for Leia, across half a galaxy, solely to fake out the audience.
14. Evil BB8 functions as the Captain Phasma of this movie, appearing solely for the plot-essential reason of providing merchandising for the holiday season.
15. Endless Deus Ex Machinas. Look, it's star wars, I expect the storm troopers to always miss, and the heroes to luckily happen onto exactly the right circumstances to do the heroic thing. That's fine. A giant fireball around non-jedi heroes, killing the like, hundred people around them, but leaving them entirely unharmed, is maybe a bit much. It's just endless plot armor. Oh look, suddenly there's an elevator here for no reason whatsoever, when it didn't exist a second previously. Probably also created by the explosion.
16. Lightsaber-whips.
17. So, the guys in red, right? Cool fight scene, sure. But are they the emperor's guard, or the knights of Ren? Why do they draw their weapons on Snoke when he threatens Kylo, but then later, in the next Snoke/Kylo conflict, side with Snoke? If they are not the Knights of Ren, who the crap is? Do people continue to exist, or have motivations? Who knows?
18. The power curve of a single X-wing being a match for a ridiculously large even-bigger-star-destroyer is kind of insane. They're not even bothering with weak spots anymore, it's just...why are there all these increasingly large superweapons, if they're inferior to smaller ships straight up?

[commodorejohn]

Problems I had with the film:

Spoiler:

1. Flying magical jedi space jesus.
2. That the above is Leia. This was literally the strangest, dumbest thing they could have done. The entire sequence was unnecessary, sets up nothing, and was freaking strange.

...holy mother of God. I was done with this at 1, then 2 blew my mind apart with its wrongness. You seriously aren't shitting me, are you?

Anyway, I wasn't going to bother with this to begin with after the weakass fanfic that was JJ-Wars, but I'm definitely not touching it now.

[charliepanayi]

I thought it was pretty good, though maybe a bit too insular. Maybe Episode IX will be different on that score.

7/10 from me.

[charliepanayi]

Problems I had with the film:

Spoiler:

1. Flying magical jedi space jesus.
2. That the above is Leia. This was literally the strangest, dumbest thing they could have done. The entire sequence was unnecessary, sets up nothing, and was freaking strange.

...holy mother of God. I was done with this at 1, then 2 blew my mind apart with its wrongness. You seriously aren't shitting me, are you?

Anyway, I wasn't going to bother with this to begin with after the weakass fanfic that was JJ-Wars, but I'm definitely not touching it now.

So in other words you weren't going to watch the film anyway.

[commodorejohn]

Yep. But I'm not going to watch it even harder now.

[OP Tipping]

I can't quite remember what I posted in my spoily mcspoilface post but...

I enjoyed the movie and it moved things along nicely to a setup for Episode IX. The plot is more original than The Force Awakens and the action scenes are amazing. I was quite fooled by the

Spoiler:

fake out death of Leia and the fake out non-death of Luke.

Don't be worried about the Porgs, they aren't a major element, they are just sort of there.

Some other complaints/comments.

Spoiler:

Pretty bold, squashing the two mysteries that everyone was talking about. Who are Rey's parents? No one. Who is Snoke? Doesn't matter, he's dead. I still think that at some point I want to hear about how the First Order got established so quickly. Did the Rebels do nothing at all with the victory?

Was Leia moving herself through space? Was Luke doing it?

They've said they aren't going to use CGI Leia in Ep IX. I assumed that she'd die in The Last Jedi but she is still leading the resistance. So what are they going to do? Kill Leia off between movies and just announce it in the Ep IX crawl? Or have her alive but unseen? No great options exist.

It was nice to see Yoda. Luke's speech is even a bit Yodic in places. "Pageturners they are not" or words to that effect.

Finn and Rose's excellent adventure achieved nothing and actually got a lot of the resistance killed: the transports would have got away clean if DJ had not tipped off the First Order. Also the whole casino thing was weird: felt like a bad Next Generations episode. So the lesson is ... obey orders?

[Tyndmyr]

Problems I had with the film:

Spoiler:

1. Flying magical jedi space jesus.
2. That the above is Leia. This was literally the strangest, dumbest thing they could have done. The entire sequence was unnecessary, sets up nothing, and was freaking strange.

...holy mother of God. I was done with this at 1, then 2 blew my mind apart with its wrongness. You seriously aren't shitting me, are you?

Anyway, I wasn't going to bother with this to begin with after the weakass fanfic that was JJ-Wars, but I'm definitely not touching it now.

Sadly, even if I were trolling, I could not have imagined that ill advised CGI-fest.

Re: OP Tipping

Spoiler:

"Pageturners they are not" is spoken by Yoda, not Luke. Luke pretty much just lashes out a lot with emo crap, fakes out the audience, then dies anyways, so...the fakeout was pointless? Whatever.

Basically all mysteries, tension, etc were resolved with "it doesn't matter, lawl". Finding Luke? Ultimately irrelevant. The parents? Not even worth showing. The well of evil? Uh, okay, nothing of note. Last Jedi Temple? Fuck it, we're literally burning anything of interest to the ground.

[emceng]

Major plothole?

Spoiler:

Ok, well of evil being pointless was kind of annoying. There were other bits. The small birds needed their screen time cut by about 1/3. The Jedi house keepers should have been cut.

Ok, but did I miss something - how the fuck did Benicio del Toro know about the cloaked ship/transports escaping? Rose and Finn didn't even know that, so how did he betray them? Finn talked to Poe, Poe gets stunned, then wakes up on the transport. WHO TOLD BDT?

[Angua]

I liked it. I thought it was pretty well done and had a lot of great moments. I have also been wondering how the First Order managed to spring up so quickly though. Like, did no one see the signs from the first time this happened? It wasn't that long ago.... I guess it's probably going to get explored in some of the stand alone films?

Spoiler:

Yoda cackling after hitting the tree with lightning was awesome.

[Weeks]

I liked it. I thought it was pretty well done and had a lot of great moments. I have also been wondering how the First Order managed to spring up so quickly though. Like, did no one see the signs from the first time this happened? It wasn't that long ago.... I guess it's probably going to get explored in some of the stand alone films?

Spoiler:

Yoda cackling after hitting the tree with lightning was awesome.

yeah!

Great moviegoing experience, quite fun. Some weird moments that I did not mind. Some *really* great moments that I'd like to see again. I wish they'd get rid of the weird annoying little stuff, but I guess thats star wars now. Everything else was rather cool and good.

What I like best is it didnt feel cliched, I wasnt bracing myself for horrible trite garbage, which I guess is praising the production value.

Spoiler:

fave moment was the lightspeed crash, by far.
Also think from that point forward the movie was a lot better. I didnt care for the little penguin things at all.

[OP Tipping]

And now, back to JJA to finish this all up!

[maybeagnostic]

I liked it quite a bit. There were a lot of little things one could nitpick but this is about as good as Star Wars gets. Its been a long time since I've watched the original trilogy so I won't straight up say its the best one but the only one that has a chance to compare is Empire; luckily, unlike Episodes IV and VII, V and VIII are actually quite different so they can't be compared that easily.

Best part was that for the first time after nine movies, they allowed the good guys to have some actual flaws, relatable temptations and real failures instead of relying on blind dumb luck to carry the day.

About the twist at the end (major spoiler)

Spoiler:

where Luke wasn't actually there- they did a great job setting it up. We were talking after the movie and I think my favorite hint was how his steps didn't leave red footprints which I noticed at the time but didn't really connect until way later. Between setup, hints and reveal, I think this is the first time Star Wars actually manages to pull off a proper twist.

Problems I had with the film:...

Amazing. Every word that you just said is wrong.

More seriously this is a strange list of nitpicks. Half of these you could have figured out if you had watched the movie more carefully and the other half are kind of defining characteristics of Star Wars- dislike them if you want but the original trilogy has the exact same problems.

[Peaceful Whale]

1 Thing:

Spoiler:

Whoever doesn’t want the next movie to be just a documentary about Progs has no soul.

I used to like chewie, but after what he did to he porgs has left me shaken. I vote he burns.

Ok it was maybe 2 things, but same idea.

[SecondTalon]

Some answers!

Spoiler:

2. It'd be weirder if a force user *couldn't* fling herself back to the ship.
4. Several of your points come back to this - yes, the whole thing would have been avoided if purplehair had said "This is what we're doing". At the same time, the overriding theme with Poe was that he needs to learn that making decisions with incomplete information just fucks over people for no damned reason.
8. Because he lied.
12. What second door? What are you talking about? A passage had opened in the mine, probably an earthquake or something as it was also full of rocks.
13. They did set the die up earlier, but yeah, never before this movie. Can't argue that.
17. They drew on Kylo, not Snoke. They never drew weapons on Snoak. Kylo made a threatening gesture towards Snoke. They reminded him he's being watched. They. Drew. On. Kylo.
18. Are... you referring to Poe's opening bit where he blew away the turrets for the bombers? Or Finn trying the Ramming Speed trick that failed? That's always been the Empire's weak point - they build giant oversized things that can easily crush mid-to-large opposition, but can't swat Gnats. That's why they have TIEs.

Spoiler:

Pretty bold, squashing the two mysteries that everyone was talking about. Who are Rey's parents? No one. Who is Snoke? Doesn't matter, he's dead. I still think that at some point I want to hear about how the First Order got established so quickly. Did the Rebels do nothing at all with the victory?

Spoiler:

I don't know how much they're using of the books written before the movies started production, but ... it was kinda a Big Huge Thing about how after the Emperor died it didn't actually... y'know.. kill the Empire. How lots of various Moffs grabbed resources and set themselves up was Warlords, some independent, some continuing on as The Empire, some playing the field and seeing how it goes, and so on.

I figure this is a similar thing - just because they killed the boss doesn't mean the entire Empire folded in seconds. Maybe.. what, 1/3 to 2/3 of the Galaxy was in the Republic. Everyone else? Empire with a name change.

Spoiler:

Ok, but did I miss something - how the fuck did Benicio del Toro know about the cloaked ship/transports escaping? Rose and Finn didn't even know that, so how did he betray them? Finn talked to Poe, Poe gets stunned, then wakes up on the transport. WHO TOLD BDT?

Spoiler:

I mean, yeah, it is a little out of left field, but it's also literally how he got in. More "They're going to imprison me, what can I do to get out of this... I know! Hey fuccbois, your sensors are ass and I can prove it"

He also brought up the point about the arms dealers selling to both sides, then proceeded to work for .... both sides. It's entirely possible he sold them the information on how to cloak shit earlier. Then again, cloaking on ships that small is new so who the hell knows?

Alright, now for my bits.

Spoiler:

I understand what Mark was saying, regarding him fundamentally disagreeing with every choice made about Luke [and having said that, Mark gets to work doing what the paper says he does because that's his job] but.....

The various books and other media portrayed someone who came from humble origins and rapidly embraced his new powers, social positioning, and so on.

The Last Jedi gives us a backwoods farmboy who continued to be a backwoods farmboy until he fucked up really goddamn bad, then decided he'd go back to being a backwoods farmboy. On a fucking ocean because fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck sand.

Kinda neat. Also kinda neat how Yoda was still trying to teach him the same fucking lesson - fuck giving a shit about the future, pay attention to the goddamn now, you fucking fuck.

Kinda sucks how Finn's pretty much everything was either a pointless shaggy dog story or any sort of victory he may have had was taken from him.

[Liri]

Just saw it. I haven't read through people's comments yet in this thread.

Spoiler:

Overall, the good moments were really good. Luke's final act was pretty friggin spectacular.

I think my fundamental gripe is that with the new things they introduce, they aren't convincing me there's any depth underneath what they show us. Snoke? Underwater cave? Jedi books? Rey's parentage? Island milk?

The bird things annoyed me cause I'd seen them used to promote the film and because their CGI wasn't very realistic.

I wish they'd lay it off with some of the humor. A big part of what made the originals (and, yes, the prequels) so good and endearing was that they took themselves a little too seriously at times.

Glad Snoke (autocorrected to "A joke") is gone. Terrible character.

I don't know why we should even care if they defeat the First Order at this point. They're clearly going to immediately come back. Forever being the long-suffering underdogs is tiresome. Ugh.

I'd rather re-watch Eps. I, II, and III than VII or VIII. I'll admit it.

Spoiler:

The mirrored Rey scene, while not being particularly significant, was practically the only bit of directorial creativity in the whole movie.

I wish they could move beyond what the prior movies already did; what can the Force can be beyond tricks?They're gonna take my money in any case, they might as well get fresh with it.

What is the deal with fan service? Is there actually a group of people that appreciates it? "Rebel scum", for instance. It was a throwaway line in VI and got picked up by fans and the EU Legends material. When one of the movies uses it... it's winking to the audience, "Hey, we all know this isn't Star Wars, but let's try to pretend for a moment." R1 did a far better job of existing within the universe while defining itself as an installment in its own right.

[Tyndmyr]

I don't know how much they're using of the books written before the movies started production, but ... it was kinda a Big Huge Thing about how after the Emperor died it didn't actually... y'know.. kill the Empire. How lots of various Moffs grabbed resources and set themselves up was Warlords, some independent, some continuing on as The Empire, some playing the field and seeing how it goes, and so on.

I figure this is a similar thing - just because they killed the boss doesn't mean the entire Empire folded in seconds. Maybe.. what, 1/3 to 2/3 of the Galaxy was in the Republic. Everyone else? Empire with a name change.

Actually unspoiling this, since this is more an episode 7 thing than an episode 8 deal.

Sure, I'm familiar with the Thrawn trilogy and what not, but that's not really the premise of the movies. In film, basically a new republic is set up and lives for like twenty years, and grows complacent, and then, bam, surprise, hidden empire with added space nazi. Basically, they rehashed the entire setup for the original trilogy in the first moments of episode 7.

Kind of a soft reset, rather than a continuation of story, as the EU provided.

[doogly]

I'd rather re-watch Eps. I, II, and III than VII or VIII. I'll admit it.

Yeah. I, II and III are like C, C-, B? But VII was automatic F, we have to talk to the dean about what you did. I am not watching VIII but I read the wikipedia. It appears to be as bad as expected.

[CorruptUser]

Wait, you think II was worse than I? II had some ok clone moments, Chris Lee, and Yoda combat... if a bit poorly done. I only had Darth Maul for like 30 seconds, and everything else was so forgettable that you'd be forgiven for forgetting about BRIAN BLESSED. It's a sign you done goofed when people don't remember BRIAN BLESSED in your movie.

[doogly]

II had "Not like sand." Unacceptable.

But the bottom line is really just that they are both bad, but better than 7.

[Liri]

II had "Not like sand." Unacceptable.

Hey at least it was memorable.

[Zohar]

What's with the hate towards 7? It loses *a lot* of points for being very much a remake of IV, but other than that it was pretty great.

[CorruptUser]

I think it's the hipster bullshit of hating things others like in order to establish an unearned sense of superiority.

[SecondTalon]

Yeah, I mean, 7 wasn't as good as the Holy Trilogy (that also has it's own problems) or Rogue One, but it sure as fuck isn't worse than the Prequels.

[OP Tipping]

I can't objectively compare Empire to the new movies. I'm never going to be 12 years old watching a new SW movie. Nostalgia is powerful.

So strictly in terms of how much I like them, not even trying to be objective:

1/ The Empire Strikes Back (awesome)
2 (tied)/ A New Hope, Return Of The Jedi, Rogue One (great)
5 (tied)/ Revenge Of The Sith, The Force Awakens, The Last Jedi (good movies, lots of fun, with some things I'd change.)
8/ Attack of the Clones (enjoyable but several problems)
9/ The Phantom Menace (mostly bad)

[CorruptUser]

The general consensus is...

Empire
A new hope
Return of Jedi
The force awakens/rogue one/last jedi (still argued)
Revenge of the Sith
Attack of the Clones
Star Wars Christmas Special
Phantom Menace.

[Peaceful Whale]

The general consensus is...

Empire
A new hope
Return of Jedi
The force awakens/rogue one/last jedi (still argued)
Revenge of the Sith
Attack of the Clones
Star Wars Christmas Special
Phantom Menace.

Wait... Star Wars Christmas special is a real thing?

*one google later*

I have decided that it is no. Nothing as horrible as the Star Wars Christmas special ever existed, otherwise the world would explode.

[Angua]

My bf decided he wanted to watch the star wars christmas special one year as couldn't believe it could be that bad. Thought it would be funny. We gave up after about 10 mins and watched the nostalgia critic review instead.

[Mutex]

I made it through the first 90 minutes. I love bad movies but that broke me. It's possibly the most bafflingly relentlessly unentertaining thing that exists. What the hell were they thinking.

[OP Tipping]

If you're going to include the Holiday Special, then why not put in Caravan of Courage and The Battle For Endor? The latter has Wilford Brimley and Johnny Weismuller Junior! I appear to have answered my own question.

[doogly]

What's with the hate towards 7? It loses *a lot* of points for being very much a remake of IV, but other than that it was pretty great.

It loses every point. No points awarded.
We will definitely have to talk to the dean.

[commodorejohn]

7 is less painful than the Prequels only because it's nothing but a reheated hash of bits from the OT strung together with bad fanfic. But it's also more objectionable than the Prequels for exactly that reason; say what you want about them (and Lord knows there's plenty to say,) but I-III were recognizably the work of a distinct, unifying creative voice, not Generic Extruded Corporate Movie Paste shaped into a Star Wars patty. I'd much rather watch the good movies than the Prequels, but I'd go back to even AOTC (the worst of the lot) before I'd waste my time revisiting TFA.

(Plus, TFA has plenty of fundamental issues of its own, like the fact that it's essentially a succession of first acts Human Centipede-d together until the movie suddenly decides it's time for a weak rehash of ROTJ's multi-front final battle that mostly just demonstrates that J.J. Abrams has absolutely no ability to pull off a large-scale fleet battle sequence. ROTJ may have strained a bit against the limits of their FX technology, but you could at least tell more or less where the various participants were in relation to each other and what they were trying to accomplish. TFA's space battle is essentially just a couple hundred X-wings and TIE fighters tossed into a pot all flying at random directions and shooting at whatever they happen to be pointing at until the characters down on Endor the Death Star Starkiller Base turn on the "please shoot me now" light so the movie can be over.)

Yeah. I, II and III are like C, C-, B? But VII was automatic F, we have to talk to the dean about what you did. I am not watching VIII but I read the wikipedia. It appears to be as bad as expected.

Also doogly is my spirit animal for this.

[doogly]

rawr

[emceng]

Hmm, I wonder if Rogue One is worse than the prequels. I really disliked Rogue One. The characters were all annoying. Every one of them. They had no motivation for acting.

Spoiler:

Ok, so you have magical blind guy that is a badass fighter. He uses the force or something, but isn't a Jedi? And why does he just join up with the group?

Why does anyone in the Rebel Alliance pay any attention to the main character? She 'rallies the troops' at the end, but they've known her for 5 freaking minutes, and she was a whiny brat at the beginning of the film.

Forest Whitaker - what a waste of a good actor. He dies pointlessly, and does nothing.

Darth Vader would not use puns.

I liked the battle at the end, partly because everyone dies.

Edit:forgot - the uncanny valley CGI. Leia and Tarkin both were so goddamned weird looking it ruined their scenes.

But then the prequels have midichlorians, Jar Jar, and a terrible romantic plot. Oh, and CGI over-use.

I do think 7 and 8 are better than the prequels. 8 had annoying parts

Spoiler:

Too many jokes, major plotholes, the casino part, that kid at the end,
and things like the Jedi temple housekeeping staff.

[Tyndmyr]

What's with the hate towards 7? It loses *a lot* of points for being very much a remake of IV, but other than that it was pretty great.

Mostly that. It was a quasi-remake, without really being a remake, which makes for a lot of awkward logic in order to basically set the stage back to ANH within the first few minutes of the movie.

There was also the "everything is bigger and MOAR awwesome" now. Things like Rey being super competent, a more bigger death star, a lightsaber with more blades, etc...all part of this. They basically wanted to do Ep IV again, but with more flash, explosions, and CGI.

It was an enjoyable watch otherwise, but those factors detracted from it.

8 doubles down on that, while also murdering all the mystery boxes from 7 instead of fullfilling any of them.

I'd take Rogue One over the prequels. It may be that the bad bits of them have vanished down the memory hole, but I recently had the dubious fortune of seeing phantom menace again, and it was rough.

[CorruptUser]

Does ANH lose points for being a partial shot for shot remake of The Dam Busters? Or TPM for that stupid pod racing scene being Ben Hur?

[Liri]

There's a difference between paying homage to other genres and cribbing off an earlier movie in a series. Episode VII could straight-up have been an Agatha Christie in space and I'd have liked it more.

[commodorejohn]

Does ANH lose points for being a partial shot for shot remake of The Dam Busters?

No, because even when it's doing an homage, it still brings something of merit to the table. The importance of The Dam Busters in action filmmaking shouldn't be underrated, but ANH's Death Star attack sequence is superior in every regard (even if you grade on a curve for the limitations of special-effects technology at the time, the direction and editing in Lucas's version are masterful and easily outdo their model.) Plus, you know, that's fifteen minutes out of a two-hour film which has a whole lot of other good stuff in it.

Compare that with TFA's surfeit of recycled bits and callbacks, which not only never improve on their source, but never even equal it.

Or TPM for that stupid pod racing scene being Ben Hur?

Less for that than for stopping the plot dead for a solid half-hour to do it, really.