Doctor Whom

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torontoraptor
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby torontoraptor » Wed Jun 08, 2011 4:49 pm UTC

Gelsamel wrote:
Questions I wish I had answers to:
Spoiler:
The girl in the spacesuit talks about a "spaceman" but who is she talking about? The way the first episode is set up is to suggest to you that the "spaceman" is the "person in the suit" but that doesn't make sense when you find out that not only is the girl inside the space suit, but that the NASA moon mission had not even happened then. So how would she know that the suit was a spaceman thing? It can't have been the silence because you forget about the silence when you look away. So who was she talking about?

Why did/do the silence need a space suit? If the silence get humans to make all their technology through hypnotic suggestions then who made the technology for the space suit for the kid which River said was multiple types of alien technology?

Who hit Canton in the first episode before Amy shot at the Spacesuit? The Silence just explode people and the Spacesuit wasn't in a position to hit anything. Also why is Canton the last person the Doctor invites to his death? I suspect we'll see more of him later when he does more stuff to make the Doctor trust him.

Why Amy? Are the silence in cahoots with Madame Kovarian? I suspect not, else why did they kidnap Amy in America? They would have known she was flesh by then. Madame Kovarian's plan seems to be hinged on the extremely small chance that Amy gets impregnated while on the TARDIS. So was it just pure chance and she somehow found out about it... or had she planned occurances such that that happened?

Why Amy's her wedding date? Where was the TARDIS when the dead doctor invited everyone? Could it have been in the lake?



Spoiler:
Well there were lots of NASA missions before Apollo 11. So she could easily recognize it as a spacesuit. The real problem is how she was calling the President BEFORE the spacesuit ate her.
I got the impression the space suit was specifically designed to hold the girl, and that the alien tech was from other planets they had conquered.
Not sure who hit Canton, but I sure hope we see more of him :D
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Robot_Raptor » Wed Jun 08, 2011 6:43 pm UTC

TimelordSimone wrote:I'm going to blame my confusion at the moment on being sleep deprived. :P


Blame it on Timey-Wimey instead, it's what I do.

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Magnanimous » Thu Jun 09, 2011 6:11 am UTC


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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby the penman » Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:04 am UTC

keozen wrote:Ok, I have more info on the video thing I posted last night.

If you go to the BBC Doctor Who website they have a page for each of the episodes that get posted as soon as the ep airs. On each episode page there is a section called "The Fourth Dimension" which is usually episode factoids relating to continuity and whatnot, however someone noticed that random words seem to be in italics in these sections. If you take the italic words out they form a message, a different one for each episode. The last message was a clue that lead to a hidden link to that video.

We have a full on ARG going on here people.


Turns out that this was nothing to do with Season 6's story arc, but was a tease for an interactive kid's theatre production being done in Manchester - with some input from Moff himself.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/stage/2011/jun/08/crash-of-the-elysium-punchdrunk

Sadly, only 6-12 year olds (and a very select number of accompanying parents/guardians) get let in.

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby crowey » Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:46 am UTC

Need to convince my friend to let me borrow his son...

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Steerpike » Fri Jun 10, 2011 1:29 pm UTC

Something I noticed while watching A Good Man Goes to War (thank you BBC iPlayer!). Found it funny.
Spoiler:
The screen on the right:
Image

Remember: It's not sonic. It's not a screwdriver.

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby sugarhyped » Sat Jun 11, 2011 1:09 am UTC

Steerpike wrote:Something I noticed while watching A Good Man Goes to War (thank you BBC iPlayer!). Found it funny.
Spoiler:
The screen on the right:
Image

Remember: It's not sonic. It's not a screwdriver.


That got a giggle out of me. :)

No DW tomorrow... :cry: and a whole month till torchwood. I was looking up some info on it and I dont know if its a spoiler so erring on the side of over-caution it looks like half the episodes are at least co-written by
Spoiler:
Jane Espenson. She's done a lot of whedon-verse work so I am not disappointed. I usually try to approach new things optimistically.


Since it's 10 episodes is it supposed to last until doctor who starts up again? I know they aren't on the same network but I appreciate coordination.

I am hoping Torchwood being on Starz wont affect it negatively. It doesn't affect me in any way yet because I don't live in Britain and therefore watch it online anyways.
If it's really good like TW Children of Earth I shall buy the dvd set for a ridiculous amount of money (IMO).
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Jorpho » Sat Jun 11, 2011 2:08 am UTC

Hey, two weeks until Futurama! :D

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Magnanimous » Sun Jun 12, 2011 4:25 am UTC

Image

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Diadem » Sun Jun 12, 2011 3:00 pm UTC

I was reading these forums just now, and noticed new posts in this thread, and thought to myself "I shouldn't read those, I haven't seen the latest episode yet".

And then the horrible truth dawned on me. There is no new episode.

Now, I am sad.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Game_boy » Sun Jun 12, 2011 4:04 pm UTC

Magnanimous wrote:Image


This is the worst meme I have ever seen. It's not funny or random, people just substitute X into it and post like they expect congratulations or lots of "lol"s.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby bigglesworth » Sun Jun 12, 2011 4:12 pm UTC

I disagree - maybe in some versions of the meme that's true but the similarity to the Dr Who opening credits cannot be denied, and that makes this a good animation.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Gelsamel » Sun Jun 12, 2011 4:55 pm UTC

Nyanyanyanyanyanyanya! > NyanCat anyway.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Triangle_Man » Sun Jun 12, 2011 7:34 pm UTC

Finally saw the mid-season finale last night.

It was awesome.

Of course, now I'm really wondering what's going to happen in the next half of the season.

And it looks like the first fall episode will take place in Nazi Germany?

This is all so exciting.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby matt198992 » Mon Jun 13, 2011 3:18 pm UTC

I love doctor who and have been following it for a while now.

Spoiler:
While I love the new seasons (referring to the seasons starring Matt Smith), I have to say I think they are not as in depth in plot development as Tennant's was. The plot and story seems fairly strait-foward, as opposed to the subtle hints and bits in Tennant's story line that led up to a HUGE and epic plot finale. To me, it just feels that this last season and the season before it lack this. They are answering a lot of questions while not raising too many more as well these past two seasons and it worries me that it is a sign of the end of the series.


I will say I do like Matt Smith in Doctor Who. He looked weird at first and the first half of his first season seemed a little bland. After a few episodes however, he really started to shine. That said though, I still miss Tennant :(

"The Doctor's Wife" is hands-down my favorite episode of the current season though. And the mid-season finale literally had me cheering for the doctor and laughing my butt off. All in all, I can't wait for the rest of the season!!

Edit: going to throw that second paragraph in a spoiler tag. Just in case.

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby SANTARII » Tue Jun 14, 2011 11:29 am UTC

I disagree.

Spoiler:
I don't understand how the story progression is that different from the RTD era, as far as plot development goes, for series 5 it began with the crack, and had a bunch of things pointing to it meaning more, and then the crack appearedn in the forest, and the silence where mentioned in the first episode of series 5, and Rory got sucked into the cracks, then they found out the cracks were the Tardis and there was the whole episode at the end of series 5 dealing with the aftermath of the end of time as we now know exactly what the cracks were, and then the questions were left open such as who crashed the Tardis, and we still didn't know who River was...

And then this series as far more plot development than any series of RTD's Doctor Who had IMO. The very first episode the Dr from the future dies, and we don't know why, and we had the myster with the girl in the space suit, and we found out what the Silence are, but we still don't know what they are planning, or why Amy's photos were in that orphanage, and there was the myster of Amy's pregnancy, and then we had the episode finding out about the flesh which then led to understanding that Amy was the flesh and she was pregnant and that the child is River and there is a war against the Doctor, and we're not sure why and still don't know who exactly the woman leading the war is and how they plan to use the child and what it means that River is part Time Lord and we're only half way through this series!
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby TimelordSimone » Tue Jun 14, 2011 11:59 am UTC

SANTARII wrote:I disagree.

Spoiler:
I don't understand how the story progression is that different from the RTD era, as far as plot development goes, for series 5 it began with the crack, and had a bunch of things pointing to it meaning more, and then the crack appearedn in the forest, and the silence where mentioned in the first episode of series 5, and Rory got sucked into the cracks, then they found out the cracks were the Tardis and there was the whole episode at the end of series 5 dealing with the aftermath of the end of time as we now know exactly what the cracks were, and then the questions were left open such as who crashed the Tardis, and we still didn't know who River was...

And then this series as far more plot development than any series of RTD's Doctor Who had IMO. The very first episode the Dr from the future dies, and we don't know why, and we had the myster with the girl in the space suit, and we found out what the Silence are, but we still don't know what they are planning, or why Amy's photos were in that orphanage, and there was the myster of Amy's pregnancy, and then we had the episode finding out about the flesh which then led to understanding that Amy was the flesh and she was pregnant and that the child is River and there is a war against the Doctor, and we're not sure why and still don't know who exactly the woman leading the war is and how they plan to use the child and what it means that River is part Time Lord and we're only half way through this series!


Yeah I agree with this, I don't really get how occasionally saying Bad Wolf/Torchwood/Saxon counts as plot development. But each to their own.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Phill » Tue Jun 14, 2011 12:44 pm UTC

TimelordSimone wrote:Yeah I agree with this, I don't really get how occasionally saying Bad Wolf/Torchwood/Saxon counts as plot development. But each to their own.


Ditto me on this one too. I was discussing this with a friend the other week. She was saying that, although she was enjoying the Steven Moffat era, she just missed the memorable RTD moments. She thought Steven Moffat episodes got your head whereas RTD got your heart. I disagreed that I enjoyed the series less for that reason though, I quite like my stories making a bit of sense for a change. *ducks*

Just kidding, but the glaring plot holes in a lot of RTD's writing really got to me, to the extent that I think I enjoyed the series less. With Steven Moffat it's more complex but I think more well thought out. It guess it just depends on what motivates you to watch DW. If you were in it for the thrills, and you could cope with the TARDIS towing the earth across the universe, I guess RTD would have done more for you. Just my two pence anyway,

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Whelan » Tue Jun 14, 2011 4:14 pm UTC

I found that the Moff's episodes during the RTD era were my favourites, but I prefer his style of entirely self-contained adventures. There aren't really big mysteries until the last couple and actually screw it I love having things to wonder and obsess about.

I've changed my mind. I prefer the Moff.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Diadem » Tue Jun 14, 2011 4:31 pm UTC

Well take series one. Throughout the entire series Bad Wolf is constantly mentioned. And then in the very last episode it is revealed what it refers to. It's of course a complete deus ex machina. The bad wolf references are not clues, they are just building up tension. There is no way to predict the ending, and any other reveal of the meaning of the words 'bad wolf' would have made equal sense. It's still cool. The feeling of "AH! So that's what it means!" is rewarding enough. And Rose was absolutely epic that episode. But I wouldn't call it plot development.

In series 1 you could have watched all the episodes apart from the first and last one in any order. You can't get away with that in series 5 and even less in series 6.

There's nothing inherently wrong with not having any plot development. It's tried and tested formula. Many series adhere to this formula. Star trek, House, Bones, pretty much every sitcom ever, even to some extent firefly, all follow this formula. The big advantage is that you can miss out on an episode without being completely lost. Though perhaps now that we have internet that's not as big an advantage anymore as it used to be.

Though having the series move forward at least some is generally a benefit. Like firefly, where of every single episode 90% is episode specific, and could be watched in any order, but there's a few things every episode that do form a continous overarching storyline. And there's a reason why DS9 is the best of all star trek series.
Last edited by Diadem on Tue Jun 14, 2011 4:39 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Giant Speck » Tue Jun 14, 2011 4:33 pm UTC

I love any writer whose style requires me to think and theorize. I don't like overly straightforward writing.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby KestrelLowing » Tue Jun 14, 2011 8:38 pm UTC

I prefer all the plot threads because it's so much more fun!!

For example, in the 5th series when
Spoiler:
You see that the doctor that told Amy to remember in the forest was the doctor from a different time line

I squealed and jumped up and down. I love it when writers think ahead and integrate various parts of the storyline.

I also think I'm biased towards the Matt Smith seasons because I just love Amy and Rory while I wasn't as enamored with the other companions, although I still have a huge crust on David Tennent.

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Jorpho » Wed Jun 15, 2011 2:51 am UTC

I also kind of preferred the much more subtle linkages between episodes.

The way it is now, it's like a demand for the viewer to speculate; the importance of the show diminishes in the face of this sick little game, as if everyone's supposed to put the clues together and write to the BBC for a chance to win a prize and to heck with everything else. And there's not even a point to speculating! The show is regularly riddled with deus ex machina and phlebotium and plot holes; the writers or whoever will gleefully pull whatever the heck they want out of nowhere at the last minute regardless of how carefully you think you've figured everything out.

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby animeHrmIne » Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:07 am UTC

Jorpho wrote:I also kind of preferred the much more subtle linkages between episodes.

The way it is now, it's like a demand for the viewer to speculate; the importance of the show diminishes in the face of this sick little game, as if everyone's supposed to put the clues together and write to the BBC for a chance to win a prize and to heck with everything else. And there's not even a point to speculating! The show is regularly riddled with deus ex machina and phlebotium and plot holes; the writers or whoever will gleefully pull whatever the heck they want out of nowhere at the last minute regardless of how carefully you think you've figured everything out.

Ah. I'm quite the opposite: if a show doesn't have much of an arc, I tend to get bored of it pretty quickly. I prefer having to think about a show, having to be engaged in the plot and the stories. I like it when things that seemed unimportant four episodes ago play into the most recent episode. And I couldn't give a damn if I'm proved wrong or if they deus ex machina all over intricate story telling (unless the deus ex machina is pure suck, but Doctor Who's at least kept them interesting). The "subtle" linkages in past seasons seemed more like tacked-on references to me -- it was like the episodes were written with no sense of arc at all, and then they just added in the bits about Saxon or Bad Wolf or the bees or something. Seasons 31 and 32 use previous episodes as plot points; they build on each other up to a finale, instead of each individually fomenting a finale. The finales may be smaller scale, but they seem to me like they're more important. It's like this:
Whovian finales.png
Whovian finales.png (7.38 KiB) Viewed 4640 times

You could delete almost every episode from one of RTD's seasons and it would stand up as an episode, little explanation required. But with Moffat's seasons, deleting some episodes would make the whole season stop making sense, and the finale wouldn't work. And I definitely prefer that.

Not trying to say that you're wrong, you're very much right. I just like Moffat's technique a lot more.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Link » Wed Jun 15, 2011 9:40 am UTC

I definitely prefer Moffat to RTD. Series 5 and 6 may be a bit more difficult to get into if you've never seen Doctor Who before, because you can't just start at episode 5 and expect to be able to follow the story entirely, but I still prefer a continuous storyline. It's a very different style from RTD, but it works. Sure, there are some aspects I miss from RTD's era - and likewise many from the Classic series - but all in all I'm very happy with Steven Moffat.

Frankly I disagree with the assessment that speculation has become a requirement - you can easily skip it and focus on the individual episodes if you prefer - but I love that there is a lot to speculate about. "Bad Wolf", "Torchwood" and "Vote Saxon" are too vague: don't provide any clues whatsoever about where the plot is going, other than that it will involve those arc words. Conversely, "I killed the best man I ever knew" and "the Pandorica will open; silence will fall" are more concrete: who is the best man River knew; what is the Pandorica, and why should we care if it opens; what makes silence fall and what are the consequences? There are a lot of unanswered questions in Moffat's series that can be fun to speculate about - but IMO, the episodes are still perfectly watchable (if you watch them in order, anyway) if you don't like to speculate and just want to wait for the answers instead.

All in all, Series 6 is pretty much my favourite season so far.

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby matt198992 » Wed Jun 15, 2011 1:31 pm UTC

Link wrote:I definitely prefer Moffat to RTD. Series 5 and 6 may be a bit more difficult to get into if you've never seen Doctor Who before, because you can't just start at episode 5 and expect to be able to follow the story entirely, but I still prefer a continuous storyline. It's a very different style from RTD, but it works. Sure, there are some aspects I miss from RTD's era - and likewise many from the Classic series - but all in all I'm very happy with Steven Moffat.

Frankly I disagree with the assessment that speculation has become a requirement - you can easily skip it and focus on the individual episodes if you prefer - but I love that there is a lot to speculate about. "Bad Wolf", "Torchwood" and "Vote Saxon" are too vague: don't provide any clues whatsoever about where the plot is going, other than that it will involve those arc words. Conversely, "I killed the best man I ever knew" and "the Pandorica will open; silence will fall" are more concrete: who is the best man River knew; what is the Pandorica, and why should we care if it opens; what makes silence fall and what are the consequences? There are a lot of unanswered questions in Moffat's series that can be fun to speculate about - but IMO, the episodes are still perfectly watchable (if you watch them in order, anyway) if you don't like to speculate and just want to wait for the answers instead.

All in all, Series 6 is pretty much my favourite season so far.



I don't know. In Tennant's storylines, there were the finales, then each episode had clues throughout 3 or 4 seasons leading up to the actual finale. I really liked how they played up the Bad Wolf part, even if it was really vague. It just seemed like they had a plot within a plot within a plot (the episode plot, leading to the season finale plot, leading to the "series" finale [of Tennant]). I kind of miss that subtlety. The final "Doctor Donna" part of Tennant's season was so spectacularly awesome though. I just hope we see something like that again.

But I do have to agree that I like Moffat's style of storytelling better. Each episode had a major part of the overall arc of the season, as opposed to the individuality of RTD. I didn't like Matt Smith at first, and I still like Tennant more, Smith is doing an amazing job at the Doctor role. I know a lot of people saw
Spoiler:
River being a timelord

coming, but it kind of blindsided me and after reviewing all of the clues, I can't believe i didn't see that. All in all the finale was awesome and I can't wait for 3 months to fly by.

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Game_boy » Thu Jun 16, 2011 10:47 pm UTC

There was an article in Private Eye this week saying the production team is in disarray and they've run out of money hence the lack of cool stuff in Gaiman's episode and that they're only doing four specials in 2012 rather than a full series.

It blames some of the staff who've now left, not Moffat.

(For those outside of the UK, Private Eye is an often satirical political magazine with a reputation for investigative journalism and reporting what no one else will)
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Jesse » Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:07 pm UTC

Gaiman himself said that the money was not available for all the cool shit he wanted.

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Jorpho » Fri Jun 17, 2011 2:13 am UTC

But Gaiman's episode had a surprising amount of elaborate stuff nonetheless.

(Where do they get their sets from every week, anyway? Have they been subtly reusing stuff on a regular basis? Italy doing double-duty as France, or something?)

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Whelan » Fri Jun 17, 2011 7:53 am UTC

They work on location not terribly rarely. I know that the Shakespeare ep was filmed in my home town. If I'd still been in primary school at the time I'd have walked past them.
And some of Gaiman's ep's budget was nicked from other episodes as it was.
Spoiler:
He intended for Auntie and Uncle to be very clearly patchwork monsters, but had to make do with somewhat patchwork costumes, and was told that nephew could be any existing alien they had in the store, the stuff in the TARDIS was also scaled back, they were going to have Rory in the Zero Room, and Amy in the swimming pool (Although that was scrapped cos Karen Gillan can't swim rather than budget)
I might pay too much attention to Gaiman's twitter feed rather than revising.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Game_boy » Fri Jun 17, 2011 11:15 am UTC

Well, someone on the production team must have told Private Eye that. They don't publish articles without basis.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby keozen » Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:09 pm UTC

I'll just leave this here:

TIMES NEW ROMAN:

Spoiler:
Image



Ohh, also, Rory SO should be the new Bruce Schneier:

Image
Image

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Diadem » Fri Jun 17, 2011 4:11 pm UTC

ghehe 'death once had a near rory experience'
In fact I think he has had one several times now

Most awesome one: "The universe tried to erase Rory once. It exploded".
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Whelan » Fri Jun 17, 2011 8:28 pm UTC

In reference to the spoiler in my last post:
Spoiler:
The original design for Uncle Image
And for Nephew.
Image
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby sugarhyped » Sat Jun 18, 2011 5:03 am UTC

They mentioned it in confidential and I have actually noticed them use the oval office set a few times over.

keozen wrote:Ohh, also, Rory SO should be the new Saladin's Mom:

Image


The ones that are absolutely true are my favorites.

Every single human being to have ever entered the TARDIS for the first time was immediately disoriented, perplexed and astonished by it.... except Rory WIlliams.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby TaintedDeity » Sat Jun 18, 2011 10:03 am UTC

That's amazing. More people should dress as Romans.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby SirBryghtside » Sat Jun 18, 2011 9:45 pm UTC

SANTARII wrote:I disagree.

Spoiler:
I don't understand how the story progression is that different from the RTD era, as far as plot development goes, for series 5 it began with the crack, and had a bunch of things pointing to it meaning more, and then the crack appearedn in the forest, and the silence where mentioned in the first episode of series 5, and Rory got sucked into the cracks, then they found out the cracks were the Tardis and there was the whole episode at the end of series 5 dealing with the aftermath of the end of time as we now know exactly what the cracks were, and then the questions were left open such as who crashed the Tardis, and we still didn't know who River was...

And then this series as far more plot development than any series of RTD's Doctor Who had IMO. The very first episode the Dr from the future dies, and we don't know why, and we had the myster with the girl in the space suit, and we found out what the Silence are, but we still don't know what they are planning, or why Amy's photos were in that orphanage, and there was the myster of Amy's pregnancy, and then we had the episode finding out about the flesh which then led to understanding that Amy was the flesh and she was pregnant and that the child is River and there is a war against the Doctor, and we're not sure why and still don't know who exactly the woman leading the war is and how they plan to use the child and what it means that River is part Time Lord and we're only half way through this series!

I think Moffat works on WTF-ery, while Davies worked on subtlety. I must admit, I like Moffat's approach far more :D
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Magnanimous » Sun Jun 19, 2011 7:45 am UTC

Spoiler:
Image

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby SANTARII » Wed Jun 22, 2011 6:10 pm UTC

Amazing :L
Even though Rory's deaths are exaggerated by everyone...
Insert witty comment.

Such a cliché.

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby headprogrammingczar » Thu Jun 23, 2011 1:09 pm UTC

Reports of his death are pretty much right on the mark.
He doesn't seem to stay dead for very long though...
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