Doctor Whom

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Whelan » Tue Apr 16, 2013 6:18 pm UTC

Giant Speck wrote:
Whelan wrote:Written language takes longer to translate. The TARDIS was partway through when *VWORP-VWORP-VWORP*


Spoiler:
What I don't understand is the range of the TARDIS translation matrix. I mean, The Doctor and Clara discover at the end of the episode that the TARDIS is located at the South Pole. However, it's been translating for them the entire episode. Wouldn't everyone between the TARDIS and the submarine be affected by it?

Spoiler:
Them as travel in the TARDIS gain a lasting translation. So, Clara and the Doctor were having things translated for them, but not any of the crew. I'm going to make stuff up and say that the Ice Warrior had his own universal translator working as well.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby phlip » Wed Apr 17, 2013 1:56 am UTC

Giant Speck wrote:
Whelan wrote:Written language takes longer to translate. The TARDIS was partway through when *VWORP-VWORP-VWORP*

Spoiler:
What I don't understand is the range of the TARDIS translation matrix. I mean, The Doctor and Clara discover at the end of the episode that the TARDIS is located at the South Pole. However, it's been translating for them the entire episode. Wouldn't everyone between the TARDIS and the submarine be affected by it?

Spoiler:
I seem to recall an offhand comment once about the translation effect lasting for a while after leaving the TARDIS? Like, a comment to a companion that upon leaving the crew, stuff would still be translated for a year or so, before fading, or something along those lines. Can't remember the actual details, who it was said to or when, and I could be completely misremembering.

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby tomandlu » Wed Apr 17, 2013 2:22 pm UTC

Anyone got any theories about who/what Clara is?

Various clues/red-herrings (?):
  • Governess/Child-minder motif (noticed by the doctor - not sure how it ties in with her first appearance in the Dalek asylum)
  • Hint that the Tardis doesn't like her
  • Twice now she's the one who sorted out the problem (the leaf, with the ice-warrior), showing a sudden and surprising engagement when doing so IMHO (but this could just be sloppy writing rather than a motif)
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby rmsgrey » Wed Apr 17, 2013 2:57 pm UTC

tomandlu wrote:Anyone got any theories about who/what Clara is?

Various clues/red-herrings (?):
  • Governess/Child-minder motif (noticed by the doctor - not sure how it ties in with her first appearance in the Dalek asylum)
  • Hint that the Tardis doesn't like her
  • Twice now she's the one who sorted out the problem (the leaf, with the ice-warrior), showing a sudden and surprising engagement when doing so IMHO (but this could just be sloppy writing rather than a motif)


We know she's clever, and that this version seems to be mundane apart from possibly still having hacker skills uploaded into her brain, but that she seems to be linked to the other two versions somehow. My guess is that something's going to happen to this version of her to imbue her with cosmic significance and cause her to be reborn out of sequence - that this Clara is the original version of the other two.

This Clara definitely seems "younger" than the other two, despite her knack for solving problems (she also located the enemy two weeks ago - despite the Doctor being stumped)

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby broken_escalator » Wed Apr 17, 2013 4:09 pm UTC

Also the tardis may or may not like her. She didn't have a key so it makes sense she wouldn't get into the tardis. But if she is 'impossible' then it could be similar to how the tardis doesn't like Jack.

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby tomandlu » Wed Apr 17, 2013 4:17 pm UTC

broken_escalator wrote:Also the tardis may or may not like her. She didn't have a key so it makes sense she wouldn't get into the tardis. But if she is 'impossible' then it could be similar to how the tardis doesn't like Jack.


Interesting that it was Clara who said that - how did she know the Tardis was (semi?) sentient?
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby broken_escalator » Wed Apr 17, 2013 4:23 pm UTC

I wouldn't go as far as saying she knows the tardis is sentient. To me it was just a phrase, like if a car doesn't start someone might joke that the car is mad at them, or doesn't like them. She could know, but I have no reason to believe that given what we've seen on screen.

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby rmsgrey » Wed Apr 17, 2013 4:52 pm UTC

So far, we're three-for-three on excuses why the TARDIS can't solve the problem-of-the-week:

1) "I don't take it into battle" - and the Doctor did use it defensively to catch a falling plane...
2) "I don't think it likes me" - when all you need is a place to hide for a while, inside the magic box would be handy...
3) Hey, we just need to be able to transport a dozen or so Soviet seamen to safety to completely derail the plot. Better throw the TARDIS away to make sure there's some tension...

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby eSOANEM » Wed Apr 17, 2013 5:30 pm UTC

I've seen a couple of theories about Clara on facebook this past week.

The first is that there's some link with Jack (both impossible and both not liked by the TARDIS).

The second is that she's a time lord (based mainly on the fact that the jumper young-Clara was wearing had two hearts on it. This seems pretty tenuous because it was just a jumper and, whilst it might explain how she survived being killed, it doesn't explain why she looks the same each time.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby tomandlu » Wed Apr 17, 2013 5:38 pm UTC

eSOANEM wrote:The second is that she's a time lord (based mainly on the fact that the jumper young-Clara was wearing had two hearts on it. This seems pretty tenuous because it was just a jumper and, whilst it might explain how she survived being killed, it doesn't explain why she looks the same each time.


This seems the most obvious (with a Chameleon Arch thrown in), but perhaps too obvious, and you've still got to account for her multiple lives (rather than regenerations).

I'm also wondering how "Run you clever boy and remember" and Oswin fit in.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby broken_escalator » Wed Apr 17, 2013 5:40 pm UTC

The theory I liked the most was that she is the reason the tardis explodes (since we never found out who was in there). And that explosion-reboot is what caused her to be spread out through time. Mostly because it would tie up that missing plot detail rather nicely.

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby tomandlu » Wed Apr 17, 2013 5:45 pm UTC

broken_escalator wrote:The theory I liked the most was that she is the reason the tardis explodes (since we never found out who was in there). And that explosion-reboot is what caused her to be spread out through time. Mostly because it would tie up that missing plot detail rather nicely.


TBH I'd almost forgotten we still don't know what did that. There's also the Great Intelligence still on the scene...
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Angua » Wed Apr 17, 2013 8:43 pm UTC

Does anyone know what that doll was doing with the sonic screwdriver in the first scene with the doctor in it?
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby broken_escalator » Wed Apr 17, 2013 9:16 pm UTC

I think it was a doll of Rose... but I have no evidence other than that it was blonde.

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby tomandlu » Wed Apr 17, 2013 9:55 pm UTC

Angua wrote:Does anyone know what that doll was doing with the sonic screwdriver in the first scene with the doctor in it?


When? What?
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Angua » Wed Apr 17, 2013 10:24 pm UTC

tomandlu wrote:
Angua wrote:Does anyone know what that doll was doing with the sonic screwdriver in the first scene with the doctor in it?


When? What?

Spoiler:
When he comes out of the tardis and pulls out the screedriver he also pulls out a doll. Which then also gets dropped I think.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Whelan » Wed Apr 17, 2013 11:03 pm UTC

Oh, The Doctor's pockets are, like the TARDIS, dimensionally transcendant. As such, a lot of odd stuff ends up in there. Stethoscopes, jelly babies, bananas, and in this case, a barbie. That's just what was found as he was being searched.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Jorpho » Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:13 am UTC

A barbie, a ball of twine, and some variety of candy on a stick. But the barbie just features a little too conspicuously; I would bet on seeing it again.

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby flicky1991 » Thu Apr 18, 2013 7:04 am UTC

Jorpho wrote:But the barbie just features a little too conspicuously; I would bet on seeing it again.

Or it was a joke...
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Angua » Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:10 am UTC

Yeah, I know that the Doctor is always pulling weird stuff out but I thought the barbie was also pretty conspicuous. WAs wondering if maybe it was a reference that I'd missed, or if it had something to do with Clara given that there wasn't anything on who she was this week.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby broken_escalator » Thu Apr 18, 2013 2:57 pm UTC

Looking at the posters for the next 3 episodes, I hope we'll get some nice information on Clara from "Journey to the Centre of the Tardis".

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby eSOANEM » Sat Apr 20, 2013 8:18 pm UTC

So, the new episode had more stuff about the TARDIS not liking Clara.

Also, when the empath was talking to her she said "people like us" rather than "people like me". This, as well as a couple of other things she said/the way she said them seem to imply that Clara is special/has some psychic ability (although, given what the empath said at the end, it seems likely she either isn't aware that she knows this or that she doesn't think the doctor ought to know).
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby ArgonV » Sat Apr 20, 2013 8:21 pm UTC

Is it just me or are the new episodes getting scarier?

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby eSOANEM » Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:16 pm UTC

Also better. Akhaten was shocking. Cold War was ok, this one was actually good.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Angua » Sun Apr 21, 2013 9:56 am UTC

Spoiler:
Wasn't the machine hooked up to Emma being powered by the tardis? How come it could still work even though Clara moved the tardis?

I thought it was a good episode though. The trailer for next week's looks good as well.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby flicky1991 » Sun Apr 21, 2013 5:19 pm UTC

Angua wrote:
Spoiler:
Wasn't the machine hooked up to Emma being powered by the tardis? How come it could still work even though Clara moved the tardis?

I thought it was a good episode though. The trailer for next week's looks good as well.

Spoiler:
The Doctor said he was using part of the Eye of Harmony to connect them. I think the Eye of Harmony is connected to the TARDIS no matter where the TARDIS is in the universe.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Jorpho » Sun Apr 28, 2013 5:58 pm UTC

That was pretty good, although at this point I think it is best to abandon any and all ideas about the internals of the Tardis being remotely consistent. I mean, the first new season established that the heart of the Tardis was some big glowy living timey-wimey thing, and that it needed to be refueled by being parked on a rift, and that the Eye of Harmony was gone, and then last episode the Eye of Harmony was this little glowy crystal thing, and then there was last season when blowing up the Taris would blow up all everything. Whatever.

tomandlu wrote:There's also the Great Intelligence still on the scene...
The Law of Economy of Characters nearly demands he's somehow associated with Clara at this point. Odd, how long he's gone unmentioned.

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby rmsgrey » Sun Apr 28, 2013 8:22 pm UTC

Jorpho wrote:That was pretty good, although at this point I think it is best to abandon any and all ideas about the internals of the Tardis being remotely consistent. I mean, the first new season established that the heart of the Tardis was some big glowy living timey-wimey thing, and that it needed to be refueled by being parked on a rift, and that the Eye of Harmony was gone, and then last episode the Eye of Harmony was this little glowy crystal thing, and then there was last season when blowing up the Taris would blow up all everything. Whatever.

tomandlu wrote:There's also the Great Intelligence still on the scene...
The Law of Economy of Characters nearly demands he's somehow associated with Clara at this point. Odd, how long he's gone unmentioned.


The crystal last week was described as a "subset" of the Eye rather than the Eye itself.

If you go back to Paul McGann's debut as the Eighth Doctor, the Eye of Harmony was a fully-fledged black hole that threatened to swallow the Earth if unleashed.

It was (re-)established in The Doctor's Wife that the TARDIS remodelled herself - and that she kept archive copies of the old control rooms.

It's possible that one of the things that happened while the Doctor was sulking in the past after not finding Clara was that the TARDIS managed to capture/create a new Eye of Harmony (replacing the one lost when Gallifrey was destroyed at the end of the last great Time War) - so in the meantime, the TARDIS powered itself off rift energy and general cosmic whateverness, until it could create the new Eye of Harmony...

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Kulantan » Mon Apr 29, 2013 8:08 am UTC

Jorpho wrote:then there was last season when blowing up the Taris would blow up all everything. Whatever.


Well this time the Tardis did do some kinda fail safe thing. It might have been retrofitted not to blow up reality or whatever exploded it last time could have overridden the fail safes. But it did cause the same time cracks as last time it exploded.

Also, the timey wimey thing in the console of the first season might have been the brain of the Tardis rather than its power source. But the whole rift refueling thing then doesn't make tons of sense if it always had the eye of harmony.

Anyway, I have long ago given up hope of forcing the whole of Doctor Who into a consistent universe.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Diadem » Mon Apr 29, 2013 12:54 pm UTC

I liked the episode, but it didn't make a whole lot of sense. I think they should have left out the 'scary monster' parts and just focused on interaction between the characters, and interaction with the personality of the Tardis. Some parts there were a bit weird. I get that the Tardis wanted to kill the intruders, but it very much looked like it wanted to kill the Doctor too, which would be extremely weird given what we know about the tardis. The parts about the Tardis not liking Clara were also strangely left out.

I do hope future Doctor Who episodes will explore the interior of the Tardis further though, I see a lot of potential there for some great episodes.

I also liked that they now placed the Eye of Harmony inside the tardis. It kinda contradicts earlier episodes, but it makes a whole lot more sense. They can also still easily handwave needing to refuel on rift energy - if that's like a different kind of power it needs. Just like a car needs both gasoline and motor oil.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Gelsamel » Mon Apr 29, 2013 12:57 pm UTC

Did the Tardis always have that many magic circles?
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Jorpho » Mon Apr 29, 2013 1:06 pm UTC

rmsgrey wrote:If you go back to Paul McGann's debut as the Eighth Doctor, the Eye of Harmony was a fully-fledged black hole that threatened to swallow the Earth if unleashed.
Wasn't it only doing that because the Master mucked it up? I thought the point to the Eye of Harmony was that it was somehow constantly connected to some whatsit on Gallifrey, necessitating the rift-refuling once Gallifrey was gone.

There can only be so much handwavium before immersion suffers.

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Diadem » Mon Apr 29, 2013 1:30 pm UTC

Jorpho wrote:There can only be so much handwavium before immersion suffers.

That's true. But that point is placed significantly higher for Doctor who. After all the show is practically made of handwavium and so it's not only expected, but also very much part of the show's appeal. Actors change, decors change, writers and directors change, the entire tone of the sow changes, but the show goes on.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby rmsgrey » Mon Apr 29, 2013 1:58 pm UTC

Jorpho wrote:
rmsgrey wrote:If you go back to Paul McGann's debut as the Eighth Doctor, the Eye of Harmony was a fully-fledged black hole that threatened to swallow the Earth if unleashed.
Wasn't it only doing that because the Master mucked it up? I thought the point to the Eye of Harmony was that it was somehow constantly connected to some whatsit on Gallifrey, necessitating the rift-refuling once Gallifrey was gone.


Apparently the semi-canon has it that more recent model TARDISes (including the Doctor's) have a quantum-level duplicate of the original Eye of Harmony, allowing them to travel further without the loss of power from transmission losses...

Either way, whether it's a remote link to the Eye on Gallifrey, or a local copy, opening the shielding and exposing the Eye meant exposing the surroundings to a black hole... Nowadays it appears to mean exposing the surroundings to a collapsing star...

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby gnutrino » Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:07 pm UTC

rmsgrey wrote:Either way, whether it's a remote link to the Eye on Gallifrey, or a local copy, opening the shielding and exposing the Eye meant exposing the surroundings to a black hole... Nowadays it appears to mean exposing the surroundings to a collapsing star...


Maybe the TARDIS is like Merlin and ages backwards in time so the Eye will collapse into a black hole in the past. It'd hardly be the least believable explanation for something in doctor who :P

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby tomandlu » Mon Apr 29, 2013 4:40 pm UTC

rmsgrey wrote:
Jorpho wrote:
rmsgrey wrote:If you go back to Paul McGann's debut as the Eighth Doctor, the Eye of Harmony was a fully-fledged black hole that threatened to swallow the Earth if unleashed.
Wasn't it only doing that because the Master mucked it up? I thought the point to the Eye of Harmony was that it was somehow constantly connected to some whatsit on Gallifrey, necessitating the rift-refuling once Gallifrey was gone.


Apparently the semi-canon has it that more recent model TARDISes (including the Doctor's)


Bzzzttt... in "The Doctor's Wife" we were told that the Tardis was a museum piece (at least that's where the doctor stole it from).
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Whelan » Mon Apr 29, 2013 8:42 pm UTC

The Type 40 may be considered near obsolete now, but it's still a lot more advanced than the first 39 generations.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby rmsgrey » Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:21 pm UTC

tomandlu wrote:
rmsgrey wrote:
Jorpho wrote:
rmsgrey wrote:If you go back to Paul McGann's debut as the Eighth Doctor, the Eye of Harmony was a fully-fledged black hole that threatened to swallow the Earth if unleashed.
Wasn't it only doing that because the Master mucked it up? I thought the point to the Eye of Harmony was that it was somehow constantly connected to some whatsit on Gallifrey, necessitating the rift-refuling once Gallifrey was gone.


Apparently the semi-canon has it that more recent model TARDISes (including the Doctor's)


Bzzzttt... in "The Doctor's Wife" we were told that the Tardis was a museum piece (at least that's where the doctor stole it from).


The Doctor himself is a late-generation Time Lord - the original Eye of Harmony was believed by most of Gallifrey to be a myth until the Doctor and the Master both independently deduced its reality and location and clashed over who would control its awesome power. Considering that Time Lords routinely live for well over a thousand years, just passing out of living memory would take a while, let alone passing out of history and into myth. More than enough time for many generations of TARDIS design.

One could also say that modern knives are made of steel (rather than bronze or flint) and still be talking about museum pieces that are thousands of years old...

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Angua » Sat May 04, 2013 8:51 pm UTC

I love the Sontaran - he's always hilarious.

Spoiler:
I can't see any good coming with two children wanting to go on the tardis. I wonder how it will affect things if they end up in too much danger.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby SlyReaper » Sun May 05, 2013 11:11 am UTC

Spoiler:
I really hope the children don't get on the Tardis. I can see no way it could possibly be not annoying.
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