Doctor Whom

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby OP Tipping » Wed Nov 27, 2013 3:38 pm UTC

I can't even imagine the wailing if that happened, especially from me.

Thought it was interesting that the big line from the trailer, "Great men are forged in fire. It is the privilege of lesser men to light the flame" was somewhat subverted. I assumed that the War Doctor was the great man, but taken in context it seemed clear he meant that he was the lesser men that lit the flame that made 9, 10, 11 great.Thought it was interesting that the big line from the trailer, "Great men are forged in fire. It is the privilege of lesser men to light the flame" was somewhat subverted. I assumed that the War Doctor was the great man, but taken in context it seemed clear he meant that he was the lesser men that lit the flame that made 9, 10, 11 great.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby eSOANEM » Wed Nov 27, 2013 4:10 pm UTC

rmsgrey wrote:
eSOANEM wrote:
no-genius wrote:
eSOANEM wrote:
Pez Dispens3r wrote:
Spoiler:
From memory there's a comment that "all thirteen of them" are here. Either way, they've heavily implied there are only thirteen doctors by having thirteen turn up. It might not turn out to be binding but it's certainly a statement.


Spoiler:
But they also said "all twelve". The time lords who said that clearly have no idea how many of them there actually are so there's no reason to take anything they say of the matter as true.

Spoiler:
Except I'm pretty sure it was Capaldi who said "all thirteen". Not that that really puts a limit on it either.


Spoiler:
That sounded to me like one of the other people in the war council. It's hard to tell though, I don't know what non-scottish Capaldi sounds like.


Rewatched it earlier:
Spoiler:
It's Capaldi


Spoiler:
I rewatched it just before posting last time. It's far from clear who's saying it. I'm still leaning towards it being one of the other time lords but it certainly could have been capaldi.


Zarq wrote:How I'd fix the regenerations limit:

Spoiler:
Let the actual Doctor actually die, and let some young buck take over the title as a way of honouring him. Any other way will just be an unsatisfying hack.


Or they could treat it the way it was done in the classic era and ignore it because it's never been a hard limit.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby rmsgrey » Wed Nov 27, 2013 8:37 pm UTC

eSOANEM wrote:
rmsgrey wrote:Rewatched it earlier:
Spoiler:
It's Capaldi


Spoiler:
I rewatched it just before posting last time. It's far from clear who's saying it. I'm still leaning towards it being one of the other time lords but it certainly could have been capaldi.

Okay, it could just have been someone who sounds a lot like him - I'm not equipped to analyse voiceprints or anything... It sounds like him, and the way the line was delivered makes sense for him to have been the one delivering it.
eSOANEM wrote:
Zarq wrote:How I'd fix the regenerations limit:

Spoiler:
Let the actual Doctor actually die, and let some young buck take over the title as a way of honouring him. Any other way will just be an unsatisfying hack.


Or they could treat it the way it was done in the classic era and ignore it because it's never been a hard limit.


The whole point of regeneration in the first place was to replace the Doctor without replacing the Doctor. If you're going to do something else, you might as well do it properly and shake the premise up while you're about it...

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby ConMan » Wed Nov 27, 2013 9:46 pm UTC

I think that Matt Smith is still only the 12th Doctor, I'm sure there's a way to argue which bit of which regeneration didn't count, but then I do think that Capaldi will be the 13th.

Mad speculation from that point:
Spoiler:
From the start of his regeneration, he will know he's on borrowed time. It will be the point where he realises that if he dies, he doesn't get to come back. He might even make a point of discussing it with his companion at the time. Maybe this will make him concerned from the beginning, or maybe he'll compile a bucket list and start taking care of a bunch of things (possibly even a few left-over bits and pieces of storylines from previous regenerations). But something will change that - something will make him need to live on at a point where he knows he can't go any further. And that's when he finally finds Gallifrey.

We know that the Doctor's relationship with his home world is a bit mixed - he cares about the planet and the people on it, but doesn't really get on well with the various groups with any kind of power like the High Council and the military. So the Doctor is going to be desperate, needing another set of regenerations, and that means he's going to have to go back and talk to the only people who can give them to him, the High Council of the Time Lords. They know he's desperate, and so they extract some kind of major promise from him in return for granting him the regenerations - maybe they need him to do some dirty work, maybe they want him to not get involved in an operation they're undertaking that he would otherwise interfere with. And so, having made his deal with the devil, the Doctor gets his new set of regenerations, at the price of being the High Council's lackey, setting them up to be the true antagonists of the next story arc.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Jorpho » Tue Dec 03, 2013 5:42 am UTC

...For some reason, in all the fuss I think I only saw one reference to "The Last Day". But considering there's really nothing to it, that's probably understandable.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Jorpho » Thu Dec 05, 2013 9:07 pm UTC

I didn't realize Untitled Web Series About a Space Traveler Who Can Also Travel Through Time (aka Inspector Spacetime) actually finished their first season ages ago! Alas, it seems funding for Season 2 was unsuccessful.
http://11thinspector.wix.com/theinspect ... sodes/c9qb

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby SirBryghtside » Fri Dec 06, 2013 12:49 pm UTC

Honestly, I think it was mostly the namechange that did that. I watched it when it was released, but only because I had tabs on the channel - it was impossible to search up otherwise :/
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Spambot5546 » Sun Dec 08, 2013 3:03 pm UTC

Does anyone know when or if The Day of the Doctor is going to air again? A friend of mine missed it and my DVR fucked up.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby pkcommando » Sun Dec 08, 2013 8:29 pm UTC

According to BBC America's site, there will be 2 airings on Dec. 13 - at 8PM and 11PM.

It's also out on DVD/Blu-Ray (stateside) on Tuesday the 10th and already on DVD/Blu-Ray in the UK.

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Dracomax » Wed Dec 18, 2013 7:10 pm UTC

You know, the more I think about it, the more I like the idea that Matt Smith is currently the final regeneration. First, the arguments about whether or not it is a hard limit will go away for quite some time.

Second, it makes sense that 10, with his unwillingness to give up his own life, and his sojourns as "The Time Lord Triumphant" could, in the explosive and destructive regeneration, spawn the Valeyard.

But mostly, I like the idea that the fields of Trenzalore have a much higher set of stakes for 11 than they did without it. he is fated to die there—a final death. When it happens, for all that 11 knows, it will be the final death, the end of his travels. There will never be a doctor beyond him, so his actions have to count. While of course nobody would really beleive this was the end even if we didn't already know who the next doctor is, it makes the entire thing potentially more tense. Hopefully the answer Moffat comes up with is not "well I lied, he still counts as the 12th doctor numerically" or something stupid. At any rate, somewhat excited for the swansong of 11.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby rmsgrey » Wed Dec 18, 2013 8:04 pm UTC

"And now it's time for one last bow
Like all your other selves.
Eleven's hour is over now;
The clock is striking Twelve's"
- BBC Trailer

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Angua » Wed Dec 25, 2013 8:58 pm UTC

Well, that was a bit of a let down.

Spoiler:
It felt like a lot of build up for all to happen was him to explode while regenerating and kill everything. The bit with Amy just felt gratuitous, and the Silence seemed kind of unnecessary, though I guess it kind of wrapped that storyline up a bit. Gallifrey signalling where they were going to come through to the entire universe seemed extremely careless (if it wasn't safe before, you can guarantee that it wouldn't be once they came through).

Also, was it just me, or did the bit when the crack opened up in the sky and the regeneration energy came through looked a lot like Cthulhu coming through or some other denizen from the dungeon dimensions (yes, I know I'm mixing references there).
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Giant Speck » Thu Dec 26, 2013 12:49 am UTC

WHAT THE HELL.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Zarq » Thu Dec 26, 2013 11:08 am UTC

Spoiler:
Didn't watch it, but apparently he got a whole new free cycle from some hole in the sky? That's just lazy writing.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby gnutrino » Thu Dec 26, 2013 11:17 am UTC

Tbh I was just glad it actually wrapped some plot threads up finally, I'd been getting rather tired of the whole "aha you think we'll use this End of Season/Christmas Special to provide some closure on any of the hanging threads? Nope! Have some more pointless cliff hanger/mysterious threat to all of space and time/completely gratuitous new intergalactic secret society to keep track of/generally unsatisfying conclusion that doesn't answer anything" thing they had going on.

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Joeldi » Thu Dec 26, 2013 11:23 am UTC

Spoiler:
To be honest, I don't think it was /that/ lazy. A bit nonsense and out of the blue for anyone who didn't watch the show in the 80s or eagerly reads lore and discussion like I do. It wasn't a deus ex machine, but it could have been written /better/
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Angua » Thu Dec 26, 2013 2:51 pm UTC

Joeldi wrote:
Spoiler:
To be honest, I don't think it was /that/ lazy. A bit nonsense and out of the blue for anyone who didn't watch the show in the 80s or eagerly reads lore and discussion like I do. It wasn't a deus ex machine, but it could have been written /better/

Spoiler:
I don't know, but it felt a bit of a cop out having gallifrey just give him the regenerations while still being in[the other side of the crack and fir no more reason than Clara asking. Not to mention the fact that he then just used his regeneration energy to blow everything up. It didn't feel like he worked for it - all he really did was give up and hang around.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby TaintedDeity » Thu Dec 26, 2013 6:55 pm UTC

Spoiler:
What makes you say it wasn't a deus ex machina? Powerful thing turned up at the end and solved all the problems at the last minute.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby eSOANEM » Thu Dec 26, 2013 11:52 pm UTC

Spoiler:
The new regen cycle itself wasn't really a deus ex because it was using elements which had all been established either at the start of the episode or long ago in who lore. Being able to use the regen energy to explode all the daleks, that definitely was because it was plucked from thin air and that was what fixed everything.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Joeldi » Fri Dec 27, 2013 12:20 am UTC

Spoiler:
Ok, yes, blowing up the daleks was stupid and DExM-ish. I was more thinking about the regeneration energy.
I already have a hate thread. Necromancy > redundancy here, so post there.

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby phlip » Fri Dec 27, 2013 12:40 am UTC

Spoiler:
Honestly, the whole episode felt to me an excuse to namedrop as much of the past few seasons as possible, squeeze in a lot of fanservice, and halfheartedly try to tie up all the lingering plot threads, without the narrative of the episode really going anywhere. Not one of my favourite episodes, all things considered.

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Giant Speck » Fri Dec 27, 2013 3:15 am UTC

Spoiler:
My biggest gripe is that it was supposed to be a damn Christmas special. This was not a Christmas special. It was more like a season finale haphazardly stapled on top of a vaguely Christmas-like backdrop.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Jorpho » Fri Dec 27, 2013 4:55 am UTC

I thought it tied up a lot of dangling threads pretty neatly – much more neatly than I could possibly have expected, given some of the writing that has shown up lately. The most prominent dangling thread that seems to remain is
Spoiler:
what they're going to do with The Valeyard, if they're going to bother doing anything at all
.

Also, while it could easily be overlooked in Asylum of the Daleks and Day of the Doctor, it seems they're really just going to toss the Mighty Morphin' Power Daleks right out the window, aren't they? Oh well.

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby charliepanayi » Fri Dec 27, 2013 9:58 am UTC

Giant Speck wrote:
Spoiler:
My biggest gripe is that it was supposed to be a damn Christmas special. This was not a Christmas special. It was more like a season finale haphazardly stapled on top of a vaguely Christmas-like backdrop.


Spoiler:
Yeah, because they've never done that before *coughTheEndofTime*cough* - also the Christmas Carol one was the only overtly Christmas episode that I've really enjoyed anyway, so dropping the idea this year was fine with me.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby eSOANEM » Fri Dec 27, 2013 10:09 am UTC

Jorpho wrote:Also, while it could easily be overlooked in Asylum of the Daleks and Day of the Doctor, it seems they're really just going to toss the Mighty Morphin' Power Daleks right out the window, aren't they? Oh well.


I believe word of god is that the new paradigm daleks started a war against the old paradigm daleks and lost due to inferior numbers. Out of universe explanation is that they only changed them because Karen Gillan was too tall and the normal daleks looked pathetic next to her, once she left the ridiculous new daleks with their weird backs and stupid colours sudddenly started to look as silly as they are/were.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby SlyReaper » Fri Dec 27, 2013 1:16 pm UTC

eSOANEM wrote:
Spoiler:
The new regen cycle itself wasn't really a deus ex because it was using elements which had all been established either at the start of the episode or long ago in who lore. Being able to use the regen energy to explode all the daleks, that definitely was because it was plucked from thin air and that was what fixed everything.

Spoiler:
I seem to recall Ten's regeneration pretty much destroying the interior of his TARDIS. And TARDISes are supposed to be nigh indestructible. It's not that big a leap to being able to point his beams of face-melty death at some daleks while he regenerates.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Jorpho » Fri Dec 27, 2013 4:36 pm UTC

eSOANEM wrote:I believe word of god is that the new paradigm daleks started a war against the old paradigm daleks and lost due to inferior numbers.
But... but they were supposed to be the Last Daleks Evar. Oh well, so much for that idea.

And of course we still never got a satisfactory resolution on the timestream thing.
Spoiler:
So the Doctor and Clara jumped into the Doctor's own timestream at Trenzalore, only now the Doctor never died at Trenzalore and his timestream was never there in the first place..? Ah, whatever.

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby EdgarJPublius » Fri Dec 27, 2013 9:12 pm UTC

Jorpho wrote:
eSOANEM wrote:I believe word of god is that the new paradigm daleks started a war against the old paradigm daleks and lost due to inferior numbers.
But... but they were supposed to be the Last Daleks Evar. Oh well, so much for that idea.

And of course we still never got a satisfactory resolution on the timestream thing.
Spoiler:
So the Doctor and Clara jumped into the Doctor's own timestream at Trenzalore, only now the Doctor never died at Trenzalore and his timestream was never there in the first place..? Ah, whatever.



Spoiler:
The Doctor could still die at Trenzalore, he just hasn't yet.

I know most Time-travel stories don't show this, but it's actually possible to go to a place where you're going to die several times before the time you die there.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Pez Dispens3r » Fri Dec 27, 2013 11:32 pm UTC

Spoiler:
I liked it. I think the "ten regened into himself now I'm vulnerable" was dropped too lightly like if that were the case it makes less sense that he started to regen when he was shot by the astronaut but oh well I know that technically was a trick anyway. They could have easily spent the next few seasons trying to resolve the lack of coming regens thing, so yeah, ugh. I did like the idea of the doctor settling down to preserve a world as a last final act, even though it's an act of futility. Like the retirement he mentions from time to time. He was there maybe 500+ years, which is a substantial chunk of his lifetime.

The regen was extra powerful because he'd waited so long to do it and because it was a new set of regens. It's handwaveable, if not very satisfying, which is par for the course in the Whoniverse.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby eSOANEM » Sat Dec 28, 2013 7:41 pm UTC

Jorpho wrote:
eSOANEM wrote:I believe word of god is that the new paradigm daleks started a war against the old paradigm daleks and lost due to inferior numbers.
But... but they were supposed to be the Last Daleks Evar. Oh well, so much for that idea.


Well, if there's one thing the daleks are good at it's not being all killed off.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby tomandlu » Tue Dec 31, 2013 8:03 am UTC

All I can really say is that it improves on repeated viewing, but that was some seriously lazy writing/plotting.

Spoiler:
Things that didn't work but could have:

Clara's single day/Christmas dinner vs. the Doctor's centuries

Clearing up hanging plot threads (do we know who was building the new Tardis yet?)

The stale-mate.

All these things seemed to be at first-draft levels - basic ideas but not yet developed enough.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Jorpho » Tue Dec 31, 2013 12:50 pm UTC

tomandlu wrote:
Spoiler:
do we know who was building the new Tardis yet?
I don't know what you're referring to.

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby rmsgrey » Thu Jan 02, 2014 2:23 am UTC

Jorpho wrote:
tomandlu wrote:
Spoiler:
do we know who was building the new Tardis yet?
I don't know what you're referring to.

Epsiode The Lodger, where something was going on upstairs...

I feel one of the recurring problems with Moffat's run is that his stories have been the wrong length - for example, The Power of Three was obviously a two-parter where the cliffhanger and second half got scrapped and replaced with "and the Doctor waves his magic wand and solves everything". This one felt like it was relying on voice-overs to squeeze in scenes that they didn't have room for any other way, and generally trying to wrap up a little too much.

I'm fine with the Highlander-style "Quickening":

Spoiler:
This is not just a regular regeneration; this is a whole new regeneration cycle - another 12 or 13 lives - so it makes a certain amount of sense for it to be like the Tennant-Smith regeneration turned up to eleven, with destructive energy discharges and a certain ability to aim them (as seen in the Tennant-Tennant regeneration). It's also previously been established that the Time Lords have the ability to bestow additional regenerations and regeneration cycles (as shown with The Master being revived for the Time War and with River Song giving up her regenerations to save the Doctor's life) so, given that they need (or at least want) the Doctor to help them return to the universe, it's fine that they do refill him.


It's more of a Chekhov's Gun than a Deus Ex Machina - not that there's no precedent for those, going all the way back to the Dea Ex Machina of the Bad Wolf...

Given that the Time of the Doctor had to wrap up Matt Smith's run, tackle the regeneration limit, and resolve most of the dangling plot threads ready for a new start with the new Doctor, and all in just an hour, I think it did about as well as it could given the constraints. Matt Smith has been a brilliant actor - he's the first Doctor who has convinced me that he's centuries old, and his double-act in Nightmare in Silver put Andy Serkis as Smeagol/Gollum to shame - and I've enjoyed the big ideas of the Moffat/Smith run, despite the scripts often failing to do them justice.

The big idea of this story - the threat of the Time Lords returning and the Time War reigniting pits the Doctor against half the universe (no-one thinks the Doctor should bring Gallifrey back, but opinion is divided between those who want to wipe out the planet to make sure, and those who trust the Doctor not to bring the universe back to the verge of destruction) with the Doctor sacrificing himself to a centuries-long doomed stalemate just to allow the natives to live out their lives as long as possible until he actually does manage to outlive the problem - has echoes of the Pandorica, but inverted - there, he was the bogey monster, and full of his own ego, and, ultimately, defeated. Here, he's not got the swagger of his speech at Stonehenge - he doesn't bluff, he doesn't expect to win in the end, but he's determined to hold on as long as possible, and to make his death mean something by spinning it out for as long as possible, and, ultimately, the horse sings. Even the Time Lords of Gallifrey recognise that they're better off when the universe contains the Doctor, despite - or possibly even because of - him being the notorious madman in a blue box (and the best chance they have of escaping the pocket universe they only survive in thanks to his crazy idea). I like the big idea - the Doctor's last stand against impossible odds, reduced to a war of attrition partly because he has powerful friends, but mostly because he's just that good - you get the feeling that the only reason the Daleks still exist is because he's not willing to be the kind of man who's prepared to find a way to wipe them all out permanently. My only regret with the big picture is that it totally sinks his attempts to erase himself from history...

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby TaintedDeity » Thu Jan 02, 2014 4:16 am UTC

rmsgrey wrote:Given that the Time of the Doctor had to wrap up Matt Smith's run, tackle the regeneration limit, and resolve most of the dangling plot threads ready for a new start with the new Doctor, and all in just an hour, I think it did about as well as it could given the constraints.
Wouldn't have had to do that if Moffat didn't insist on writing himself into these corners. Everything is a huge, epic plot. He'll write things that should effect everything, and then seem to forget about it all in favour of the next huge, epic thing.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby rmsgrey » Thu Jan 02, 2014 5:02 pm UTC

TaintedDeity wrote:
rmsgrey wrote:Given that the Time of the Doctor had to wrap up Matt Smith's run, tackle the regeneration limit, and resolve most of the dangling plot threads ready for a new start with the new Doctor, and all in just an hour, I think it did about as well as it could given the constraints.
Wouldn't have had to do that if Moffat didn't insist on writing himself into these corners. Everything is a huge, epic plot. He'll write things that should effect everything, and then seem to forget about it all in favour of the next huge, epic thing.


Yeah, it's a problem with mixing arcs and serial writing where you don't have enough lead-time to stay on top of everything - you end up with bits of arc being left to "later" in order to fit in everything you need to fit into the current episode, and a mounting "arc debt" of all the things you need to explain at some point but never manage to find the right space for. Eventually, you end up having to write an episode that's 90%+ arc material just to catch up...

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby OP Tipping » Thu Jan 16, 2014 10:58 am UTC

Ever notice that Cardiff sounds a bit like Tardis?

Cwmbach and relative dimensions in fuckin' Fernhill?
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b) Please state the nature of your ailment or injury.
c) One a scale of one to ten, how would you rate your pain?
d) Please state the nature of the medical emergency.

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Jorpho » Thu May 15, 2014 4:58 am UTC

So, https://www.humblebundle.com/books is for some reason offering a selection of Doctor Who comics this week.

Are these supposed to be any good at all?

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby KrytenKoro » Thu May 15, 2014 1:46 pm UTC

If it's the IDW ones, I've looked at a few and while they're not quite as feels as the show, or quite as exhilirating as other IDW comics like Transformers, they're still pretty solid.

Plus, there's that Star Trek/Doctor Who crossover that serves as background for the Nightmare in Silver episode.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby jumax9 » Sat Aug 23, 2014 2:41 pm UTC

So, are we prepared for today's episode?

I'm very scared about Moffat still being the writer of the series, I don't want Capaldi following the trail of Matt Smith. Don't get me wrong, I don't think Matt Smith is (was) a bad Doctor, but I feel that its kind of funny-and-loony character act is worn out.

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Angua » Sat Aug 23, 2014 9:19 pm UTC

So, I thought tonight's episode dragged quite a lot. I'll reserve further judgement until it's had another couple of episodes to find its feet.

Spoiler:
I think I like where they're going with Capaldi's doctor (or, at least where I think they're going) - having him look (and probably act) more his age while he tries and changes his ways to being less destructive? Though I liked the fact that he most likely murdered (and admitted to himself that it was murder) the droid.

Wasn't a fan of Matt Smith phoning Clara - surely that's all paradox. They should have done something similar with a voicemail or an interactive hologram message or something. No idea where they're going with the Doctor now having a stalker.

I wonder if they're going to work the ring in, or just ignore it as part of his costume.
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