Doctor Whom

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby rmsgrey » Wed Sep 03, 2014 7:06 pm UTC

Angua wrote:We did have the body for the android though - he was impaled on the top of a tower?


Gack!

Good point - I'd forgotten that.

Well, that seems to be a fairly big nail in the TARDIS-theory's coffin (there are still ways around it - you can always snatch them bodily and then return the body a moment later after they've spent a long subjective time with you...)

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby EdgarJPublius » Wed Sep 03, 2014 7:43 pm UTC

Or, y'know, it's an android, so she got it fixed up.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Moo » Fri Sep 05, 2014 3:36 pm UTC

I'm cautiously optimistic about Capaldi's Doctor. I did love the little scene with Clara that went (paraphrased)
Spoiler:
"I'm not your boyfriend"
"I never thought you were"
"I didn't say the mistake was yours"

I enjoyed it in and of itself as a nice bit of dialogue; but if I was to over-analyze:
I thought it said something of how he realises he acted as XI, and he knows he has to put that sort of thing behind him. Just because he looked like a happy go lucky rascal in his 20s, he WASN'T, and acting like one wasn't going to change it. His biggest concerns AREN'T impressing his "girlfriend's" family at Christmas dinner and being ammusingly naked. He isn't normal. He doesn't have a normal life. He isn't young and he certainly isn't care-free. He needs to grow the hell up.
I thought the dialog in "Deep Breath" was extremely clumsy at times, and I had a lot of eye-rolly moments. I also thought that the Jenny/Vastra thing was quite ham-fisted. Not to be mistaken with having a problem with them being shown explicitly as a couple, but it was a bit heavy handed in my opinion.

I also noticed a lot of re-use of themes, and unless that ends up being a very clever calculated device, I shall be quite disappointed:
Spoiler:
- Dinosaurs where they shouldn't be;
- The androids harvesting humans;
- Victorian Clara;
- Space ship disguised as/in a building
- The doctor as less moral than or at least comparable to a Dalek
- A captured Dalek locked in chains not acting like itself and being pitied and pitiful
- The companion doesn't know who this new doctor is and just wants her old crush back
- Clara going into the heart of a weird, big, scary machine and not knowing what to do but having to save everything
- Cobbled together hot air balloon
- Clara gets left behind

He did kind of hang a lantern on it ("I've seen this before" or something to that effect), so I'm hoping there's a reason for at least some of it.

Other minor gripes:
Spoiler:
The presence of the dinosaur was also very odd, for such a minor role for it to play later. Really, a whole thing about a giant dinosaur in London just for someone to use its OPTIC NERVE for something? And for it's death to be obvious enough to get the Doctor's attention, yes, but still, I thought it over the top.

The doctor leaving that other woman behind because she's a soldier? She could have been many other things, things he could have found redeaming. He doesn't have problems with soldiers in the past; such as the ones in the Byzantium. And wasn't that girl he was trying to save in the minisode (Night of the Doctor)? as VIII a soldier?

Interested to see where the Mr Pink thing goes, I like the look of him; and the Missy thing.

Oh and also, I did kind of like XI phoning her. Maybe just because I miss him a bit, but still.

Also also, someone mentioned that Clara should remember the other Doctors and not be weirded out by seeing him regen, but as I remember it, she split into several different versions scattered through time and space; there is no reason this one should remember the experiences of the others. Or was that supposed to change when XI went into his own ... time scar life stream sparkly thingy ... and got her out?

edited once to fix grammar and once to add the alsos
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby rmsgrey » Fri Sep 05, 2014 5:31 pm UTC

Moo wrote:Also also, someone mentioned that Clara should remember the other Doctors and not be weirded out by seeing him regen, but as I remember it, she split into several different versions scattered through time and space; there is no reason this one should remember the experiences of the others. Or was that supposed to change when XI went into his own ... time scar life stream sparkly thingy ... and got her out?


I think there was a line in Day of the Doctor about Clara remembering it, but only vaguely - and Clara only met the pre-Time of the Doctor regenerations - the time-scar was from a history where XI was the final Doctor, and didn't get fresh regenerations delivered on Trenzalore.

I guess, technically, since Clara is now hanging out with Capaldi (however we want to number/label him - BI ?), she never really was the Impossible Girl, but both of them still remember that name for her, so she should at least have some memory of it still.

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby jestingrabbit » Sat Sep 06, 2014 8:51 pm UTC

most recent episode

Spoiler:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VDvgL58h_Y
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Jorpho » Sun Sep 07, 2014 4:50 am UTC

That was probably one of the most idiotic deus ex machinae I've seen in a while.
Spoiler:
A gold arrow would never be that aerodynamic! And why would they be carrying it around with with them? And why should it somehow have an effect when shot into the side of a spaceship when all the other gold was carefully shaped into "matricies"?
I mean, yes, cheesy resolutions are par for the course for the series, but it's like they weren't even trying.

Also, 'tis hardly deniable that medieval folks would never have had such perfect teeth, but never mind.

Anyway, Mr. Hood is the star of some apparently highly-regarded series I've never heard of. How about you?

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Giant Speck » Sun Sep 07, 2014 8:17 am UTC

That episode was absolutely boring.

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Angua » Sun Sep 07, 2014 8:20 am UTC

I really enjoyed it. Not much happened, plotwise, but Capaldi was really funny.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby eSOANEM » Sun Sep 07, 2014 11:03 am UTC

I'm with Angua. I thought the episode was great. It was funny and the companion got to be competent for once.

Sure the golden arrow was a massive deus ex (if they'd had it fly up some exhaust shaft into an enginey bit it wouldn't have been quite as bad, just make Robin more of a Mary Sue) but the episode as a whole was great.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby rmsgrey » Sun Sep 07, 2014 11:53 pm UTC

eSOANEM wrote:I'm with Angua. I thought the episode was great. It was funny and the companion got to be competent for once.

Sure the golden arrow was a massive deus ex (if they'd had it fly up some exhaust shaft into an enginey bit it wouldn't have been quite as bad, just make Robin more of a Mary Sue) but the episode as a whole was great.


When was Clara last not competent?

The golden arrow was the low point of the whole episode.

Once again, there was a repeated theme:
Spoiler:
The Doctor not seeing himself as a hero while his Companion does - as seen in The Beast Below, where Amy knows the Star Whale will do the kind thing because she recognises the Doctor's compassion in it.


I enjoyed it (apart from the golden arrow shot)

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby eSOANEM » Mon Sep 08, 2014 12:21 am UTC

Her entire time with Matt Smith.

Throughout that period she's primarily been an enigma for the doctor to solve and not really done anything herself to further the plot. A lot of later Amy was similar.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby rmsgrey » Mon Sep 08, 2014 1:28 am UTC

eSOANEM wrote:Her entire time with Matt Smith.


Rings of Akhaten, she not only didn't wander off, she also saved the day. Bells of St John, once she got the upgraded skills, she was more than competent with computers. I've forgotten the details of most of the rest, but Name of the Doctor, Day of the Doctor and Time of the Doctor all had her saving the day again.

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby eSOANEM » Mon Sep 08, 2014 9:54 am UTC

Rings of Akhaten was not saved by her at all, it was saved by the doctor working out what the magic words were and waving his magic wand (oh I'm sorry, leaf) at the big scary star monster.

Bells of St John wasn't saved by her actions at all, the day was saved because of her being uploaded and the people who did that, what she did afterwards to save the day was pretty glossed over because it wasn't the point; she had to have someone else give her everything she needed to be useful.

Here on the other hand, she just went and was useful on her own without anyone's help. No-one needed to give her all the pieces of a puzzle and an instruction book like in pretty much all the other examples, she just started doing useful things.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby rmsgrey » Mon Sep 08, 2014 3:42 pm UTC

eSOANEM wrote:Rings of Akhaten was not saved by her at all, it was saved by the doctor working out what the magic words were and waving his magic wand (oh I'm sorry, leaf) at the big scary star monster.

You mean the leaf Clara thought of, brought to the feeding platform, held out, and explained the significance of and that it represented all her mother might have been but never was? The Doctor got the big speech - all the memories of the Last of the Time Lords - but Akhaten devoured all that - took everything the Doctor had to give - and came back for more. It's Clara who solved the riddle and produced the leaf, though the Doctor did jump in to repeat her explanation in simpler terms for the viewers who didn't get it the first time around.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kc_4Ml_uYSI


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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby eSOANEM » Mon Sep 08, 2014 5:23 pm UTC

I didn't say she was incompetent, just that she hasn't generally been competent before. The two aren't the only options.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Moo » Tue Sep 09, 2014 9:20 am UTC

I watched Robot of Sherwood last night. That was... bad.

Reocurring themes:
Spoiler:
- The giant gold circuits (compare with The Fires of Pompei)
- ANOTHER space ship disguised as a contemporary building, needing humans to get it to fly again
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby ConMan » Tue Sep 09, 2014 11:05 pm UTC

Moo wrote:I watched Robot of Sherwood last night. That was... bad.

Reocurring themes:
Spoiler:
- The giant gold circuits (compare with The Fires of Pompei)
- ANOTHER space ship disguised as a contemporary building, needing humans to get it to fly again

I thought this was a good old-fashioned episode of Who, with a silly premise leading to lots of gallivanting around. I do agree the ending was pretty weak even by those standards, though.
Spoiler:
My fiancée noticed that the gold circuits were like from Pompeii - at first I thought they were like the board that the Slitheen was going to use to escape when she blew up Cardiff, but given that Pompeii was were Capaldi played Caecilius (IIRC) it would make a certain amount of sense, especially if it relates to the idea that he gave himself this face in his regeneration as some kind of message.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Moo » Wed Sep 10, 2014 11:36 am UTC

I was also saddened to notice that my previous "he realises he has to grow the hell up" over-analysis was proven false. Just so juvenile. Le sigh.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Steerpike » Sat Sep 13, 2014 9:55 pm UTC

Well that certainly made up for last week's episode.

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby eSOANEM » Sat Sep 13, 2014 10:57 pm UTC

I really enjoyed it (I also enjoyed Robot of Sherwood). A few things bugged me though.

Spoiler:
There was the thing under the blanket, and whatever opened the door (which from people's reactions pretty clearly wasn't nothing) and yet we're supposed to believe the doctor'd stop looking just because Clara reminds him that he's afraid of the dark when she sees him as a kid?

Unless this crops up later in the series it'll be just another thread Moffat's left dangling unsatisfactorily.


Also yet more comments from the doctor about Clara's appearance. :roll:
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Angua » Sun Sep 14, 2014 8:33 am UTC

I was wondering if it's all down to:
Spoiler:
the Doctor has always been telepathic and able to alter people's memories and perceptions. Remember the thing he did to the prime minister of England? The tardis and Doctor do seem to be pretty interlinked, and the tardis can do telepathic things as well on a wide range (translator circuits). So maybe it was all a subconscious telepathic manifestation that the Doctor has somehow been spreading his fear to the entire universe as he's been travelling? If we are to take that he wrote Listen on the board without realising, he could also have done something with the bedspread as well (and let's not forget, he too managed to somehow get into the bedroom without anyone noticing).
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby gnutrino » Sun Sep 14, 2014 10:22 am UTC

Angua wrote:I was wondering if it's all down to:
Spoiler:
the Doctor has always been telepathic and able to alter people's memories and perceptions. Remember the thing he did to the prime minister of England? The tardis and Doctor do seem to be pretty interlinked, and the tardis can do telepathic things as well on a wide range (translator circuits). So maybe it was all a subconscious telepathic manifestation that the Doctor has somehow been spreading his fear to the entire universe as he's been travelling? If we are to take that he wrote Listen on the board without realising, he could also have done something with the bedspread as well (and let's not forget, he too managed to somehow get into the bedroom without anyone noticing).


Spoiler:
My problem with all of the "there was nothing really there, even under the bedspread" theories is that if that were the case the would be no reason to remove the bedspread and show it to look definitely alien (if a bit blurry). Personally I think there was a monster there but it's entirely unrelated to the Doctor's fear and specifically something stalking Rupert/Danny Pink, I don't think we've seen the last of it tbh. I can totally see the whole "everyone has that dream" thing being due to the Doctor telepathically planting his childhood nightmare all over the universe though.

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Angua » Sun Sep 14, 2014 10:33 am UTC

Spoiler:
That's probably going to be it in the end, but I could see it being a very real hallucination of the Doctor's and we were just seeing it depicted.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby CannedCourage » Sun Sep 14, 2014 10:54 am UTC

Spoiler:
Surely the point of the episode was that all the normal, 'plausible' explanations for the stuff they experience really was correct. It was just transformed, in their minds, into some alien threat by fear. So, the thing under the covers really was another kid, the doctor got hit by debris, Clara was the one who grabbed him as a child etc, etc.

The thing that's always with you, that makes the hair on the back of your neck stand up...

Fear. (dun-dun-duuun)

Or more succinctly: not every episode is a myth episode. :)

Interestingly, does this mean the BBC dropped the absurd requirement that every episode of Doctor Who have a monster? That policy is responsible for undermining quite a few episodes.

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby eSOANEM » Sun Sep 14, 2014 11:26 am UTC

Spoiler:
There were shots in the episode where the thing under the blanket was very definitely not just a kid (moreso than the screencap above).
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby rmsgrey » Sun Sep 14, 2014 9:22 pm UTC

Do Daleks have dreams about the monster under the bed?

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Jorpho » Sun Sep 14, 2014 10:42 pm UTC

Maybe we're going to see The Valeyard after all, eh?

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby UniqueScreenname » Sun Sep 21, 2014 3:37 am UTC

I was pretty excited about Listen when it started, and it very quickly devalued itself.

Spoiler:
The soldier is a family heirloom, but she gives it to the Doctor in the past, trying to link Orson, and also Danny, and the Doctor, even though there's very little that could make that make sense. Also, there's no way that little alien thing was nothing.


Also Time Heist I thought was boring, and practically identical to this season's Dalek episode, but with a good outcome. It always seems very random too. No real reason for them to find themselves where they are.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Angua » Sun Sep 21, 2014 1:34 pm UTC

Spoiler:
I kind of felt that the whole memory wipe thing was very convenient, because why would the doctor agree to rob a bank? The only interesting mystery about the episode so they had to save it for the end. It was kind of obvious that the doctor was going to end up being the architect.

What I want to know is, the doctor obviously has telepathic and mind-altering abilities of his own. Why weren't these used to help everyone clear their minds to avoid the teller?
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Joeldi » Sun Sep 28, 2014 2:10 am UTC

The Caretaker
Spoiler:
The Caretaker was one of the best written and most interesting episodes lately, yet there is a huge undercurrent of sexist paternalism throughout. Clara can decided if Pink is good enough for her, the Doctor should keep his fucking nose out, but that is not how it's played at all. Instead Clara learns the lesson of trusting the Doctor cos he knows best when it comes to her personal life or something. Pink is also slightly pateralistic. Damn you Moffat.

...Enjoyed the references to River and to Smith though...
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Angua » Sun Sep 28, 2014 1:59 pm UTC

Spoiler:
Yeah, I feel like they were going for the 'doctor's relationship with Clara is like father and daughter vibe', but it didn't really go well with the 'doctor is always commenting on what Clara's wearing' thing. I guess they're trying to move their relationship to a more familial one, but it would be nice if that didn't mean them getting ever more paternal attitudes being thrown in.

Did you wonder if the Doctor saying 'he had a teacher like Clara once' was a veiled reference to the time she spent in his timeline?

Also, still not sure how I feel about this whole 'heaven' thing. The guy said he liked referring to it as the 'nethersphere' which made me wonder if they aren't doing a judgemental heaven v hell thing, though they obviously have different dead people turning up in different places (though probably all the Doctor adjacent deaths go to Missy's garden). . I guess we're just going to have to defer judgement until we see where they're going with it, but I'm currently not particularly confident. What does everything else think?
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Joeldi » Sun Sep 28, 2014 10:24 pm UTC

I'm keen to see where it goes. I'm so used to inconsistency/discontinuity/extreme corniness in Doctor Who, that as long as it plays out about as well as the other season finales I'll be pleased.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby UniqueScreenname » Tue Sep 30, 2014 3:14 am UTC

In talking with my friend I finally figured out what's missing from this season: real companionship. It feels like they're just carrying over the pattern from before with 11, Amy, and Rory, where they would be home for a while and then out traveling for a while. That was something they specifically wanted, whereas with Clara there was never a really good reason why she's doing it like that, other than the kids she took care of that we haven't seen in forever. I miss the days where the Doctor and the companion just traveled together. That's what they were doing, and that's all they wanted to do, because that seems more like the Doctor to me - taking someone along for the ride, not constantly picking up and dropping off. It keeps the show from flowing as well as it used to. And it's not because they can't have a romance because (the best) season 4 proved that wasn't necessary.

Spoiler:
I really like the line where Clara says she sticks around so the Doctor doesn't have to have a conscience. I laughed a lot.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby charliepanayi » Tue Sep 30, 2014 7:54 am UTC

Season 4 was very patchy indeed.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Joeldi » Wed Oct 01, 2014 3:27 am UTC

It was no more patchy than any other season of modern Doctor Who (all of which, in my opinion, have more patch than not). And the Doctor-Companion dynamic was one of the best.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby charliepanayi » Wed Oct 01, 2014 9:16 am UTC

Really? I think it's overall worse than pretty much every season so far bar the most recent one. And of the three very strong episodes, one of them didn't even have Donna in!
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby UniqueScreenname » Wed Oct 01, 2014 11:51 am UTC

Season 4 is by far my favorite.
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby Joeldi » Sun Oct 05, 2014 6:42 am UTC

I'm not gonna try and argue that Doctor Who is ever not stupid, but god fucking damn that episode was stupid.

Spoiler:
The lights on/off thing was what made me leave half way through the episode in exasperation to go complain on the internet. With all the stupidity of how ridiculous that is, it's still fucking saying the opinions of like 60% of the world shouldn't matter. Nice Clara. Nice Moffat. Fucking nice.
Also, the moon is an egg thing feels really over-done to me. Has it been done as many times as I think, or have I just been lucky in my moon-egg related plot experiences?
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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby ArgonV » Sun Oct 05, 2014 9:39 am UTC

Spoiler:
How about the moon suddenly gaining mass? Eggs don't mysteriously gain mass. I know it was some sort of space dragon, but come on!

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Re: Doctor Whom

Postby You, sir, name? » Sun Oct 05, 2014 9:57 am UTC

These last few episodes have been really lackluster in my opinion. Feels like the episodes lack momentum and the plot just sort of meanders all over the place. I don't know what it is. Seems more than the new Doctor/Clara dynamic.
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