Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby gmalivuk » Fri Apr 11, 2014 9:22 pm UTC

Not continuing the spoilered part of the discussion, since I already retracted my agreement with her comments about the level of violence.

In terms of racism, even beyond GRRM's problems there was a pretty glaring example of straight-up whitewashing in the most recent episode. (Nothing that will actually spoil things is behind the spoiler, but it is specifically about the most recent episode so don't click if you want to maintain 100% purity before viewing it for yourself.)
Spoiler:
The actual text of the book, ever so helpfully altered to fit the scene when the Dornish retinue shows up in the show:
xoxogossiprenly (also on tumblr) wrote:There were three sorts of Dornishmen, the first King Daeron had observed. There were the salty Dornishmen who lived along the coasts, the sandy Dornishmen of the deserts and long river valleys, and the stony Dornishmen who made their fastnesses in the passes and heights of the Red Mountains. The salty Domishmen had the most Rhoynish blood, the stony Dornishmen the least.

All three one sorts seemed well represented in Doran’s retinue. The salty Dornishmen were lithe and dark white as fuck, with smooth olive pale ass skin and long black hair racist turbans streaming in the wind. The sandy Dornishmen were even darker whiter, their faces burned brown white by the hot Dornish sun. They wound long bright scarfs around their helms to ward off sunstroke. The stony Dornishmen were biggest and fairest (finally some more white people up in here), sons of the Andals and the First Men, brownhaired or blond, with faces that freckled or burned in the sun instead of browning.

The lords wore silk and satin robes with jeweled belts and flowing sleeves. Their armor was heavily enameled and inlaid with burnished copper, shining silver, and soft red gold. They came astride red horses and golden ones and a few as pale as snow, all slim and swift, with long necks and narrow beautiful heads. The fabled sand steeds of Dorne were smaller than proper warhorses and could not bear such weight of armor, but it was said that they could run for a day and night and another day, and never tire.
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby Adacore » Sat Apr 12, 2014 12:58 am UTC

I'd agree with that - I was thinking of pointing it out in response to your comments about racism earlier. The show is certainly whitewashed compared to the books.

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby Diadem » Sat Apr 12, 2014 10:46 am UTC

So where is the whitewashing? They went with Mediterranean to represent Dornishmen. GRRM describes them as "Lithe and dark with olive skin". Well, that's exactly prince Oberyn.
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby gmalivuk » Sat Apr 12, 2014 1:25 pm UTC

He describes one of the three types that way, and you're correct that Oberyn is that type, and they went with a very light-skinned Chilean actor.

But I was talking about the retinue, not Oberyn.
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby LaserGuy » Mon Apr 14, 2014 5:16 am UTC

Episode 2... really, really good episode, IMHO. One of the better ones in the entire show, and not just because of the ending.

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby CorruptUser » Mon Apr 14, 2014 1:29 pm UTC

I expect that ending broke the Internet.

Spoiler:
Wasn't it a book plot point that there were only two dwarves though? Later it turns out one of the dwarves was a girl (brother and sister), who blames Tyrion for her brother's murder?

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby gmalivuk » Mon Apr 14, 2014 1:56 pm UTC

LaserGuy wrote:Episode 2... really, really good episode, IMHO. One of the better ones in the entire show, and not just because of the ending.
I love when I can figure out what peobably happened based on completely spoiler-free reactions like this.
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby Dark567 » Mon Apr 14, 2014 2:53 pm UTC

CorruptUser wrote:I expect that ending broke the Internet.

Spoiler:
Wasn't it a book plot point that there were only two dwarves though? Later it turns out one of the dwarves was a girl (brother and sister), who blames Tyrion for her brother's murder?



Book spoilers:
Spoiler:
Yes, that's correct. I don't think its huge change though. It would be easy enough to say one of the dwarves in the show ended up dying because they look like Tyrion, and said dwarf could also have a sister.
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby SlyReaper » Mon Apr 14, 2014 5:43 pm UTC

Best ending ever! :mrgreen:
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby Ixtellor » Mon Apr 14, 2014 6:14 pm UTC

So purposely not reading the books so as not to ruin the show... On episode 2.

Spoiler:
I felt like he got off a little easy. Was hoping for a death that better suits his Karma.

Now I look forward to seeing who pulled it off I strongly suspect the Stark girl, but the fool's comments + the previews where he says "someone who wanted to frame me" don't really fit that.

So my guess is:
1) The Fool
2) Stark girl
3) The spider
4) Anyone else would surprise me -- including the new Oberyn guy because thats not his style based on his bravado.
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby Dark567 » Mon Apr 14, 2014 6:42 pm UTC

Ixtellor wrote:So purposely not reading the books so as not to ruin the show... On episode 2.

Spoiler:
I felt like he got off a little easy. Was hoping for a death that better suits his Karma.

Now I look forward to seeing who pulled it off I strongly suspect the Stark girl, but the fool's comments + the previews where he says "someone who wanted to frame me" don't really fit that.

So my guess is:
1) The Fool
2) Stark girl
3) The spider
4) Anyone else would surprise me -- including the new Oberyn guy because thats not his style based on his bravado.

On events at the end of the episode(and changes from the book, but not spoilers anymore)
Spoiler:
I definitely felt like he got off easy in the books, where it was sudden and basically quickly choking to death. It described him as turning purple, but it definitely felt very unkarmic. I felt like he should have been put to trial or something and then decided he would die. I more or less wanted justice, not what is either likely to be either be a political assassination or a vengeful murder.



As far as the whodunit, I'd recommend watching (carefully!)again; There are some pretty big hints. I'd point them out but it doesn't seem fair to from my perspective as someone who has read the books.
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby pseudoidiot » Mon Apr 14, 2014 6:46 pm UTC

Yeah, I was going to do the same, but realized there wasn't an easy way to talk about them without bias from having read the books. But, yes, there's definitely some major hints/details that are easily missed.
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby SlyReaper » Mon Apr 14, 2014 6:48 pm UTC

Ep2:

Spoiler:
I don't know, it looked like a fairly drawn out death to me. Admittedly, it wasn't as grizzly or prolonged as some of the deaths we've seen on this show, but taking several minutes to drown in one's own bodily fluids is still a pretty nasty way to go. I'm just super happy because I thought that little turd was going to live forever. Because bad guys seem to live longer in this show than good guys.
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby TheGrammarBolshevik » Mon Apr 14, 2014 6:53 pm UTC

S4E2
Spoiler:
Olenna apparently takes a jewel from Sansa's necklace, and that presumably has something to do with it. What I don't understand is why, whatever the jewel was for, it would need to be carried unwittingly by Sansa, instead of Olenna just keeping it in a pocket or whatever.
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby LaserGuy » Mon Apr 14, 2014 6:55 pm UTC

Ixtellor wrote:So purposely not reading the books so as not to ruin the show... On episode 2.

Spoiler:
I felt like he got off a little easy. Was hoping for a death that better suits his Karma.

Now I look forward to seeing who pulled it off I strongly suspect the Stark girl, but the fool's comments + the previews where he says "someone who wanted to frame me" don't really fit that.


(No book spoilers)

Spoiler:
I watched a nice analysis on this on a YouTube review (borderline spoily for non-book readers) that the problem with his death is that it is not wholly satisfying because, while it may be karmic, it wasn't justice, even by the crude standards of Westeros. Joffrey didn't know the specific reason for his demise (granted, there's lots, but that's karmic), nor the identity of his killer. Compare with, eg. Arya's killing of Polliver in the previous episode where she makes a point of making sure he knows exactly what's happening and why. There's a lack of catharsis associated with the uncertainty. Though they certainly made sure that viewers were in full Joffrey-hate-rage mode just before it happened.

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby gmalivuk » Mon Apr 14, 2014 8:35 pm UTC

Ixtellor wrote:So purposely not reading the books so as not to ruin the show... On episode 2.

Spoiler:
I felt like he got off a little easy. Was hoping for a death that better suits his Karma.

Now I look forward to seeing who pulled it off I strongly suspect the Stark girl, but the fool's comments + the previews where he says "someone who wanted to frame me" don't really fit that.

So my guess is:
1) The Fool
2) Stark girl
3) The spider
4) Anyone else would surprise me -- including the new Oberyn guy because thats not his style based on his bravado.
Spoiler:
Which of those three wanted to frame anybody?

---
On differences between book and series (so including some book spoilers), one thing I liked about this episode was the interaction between Tyrion and Shae.
Spoiler:
In the books, I don't remember there being adequate setup for her later betrayal, so I appreciate the scene in this episode that made it clearer why she might not care for him so much later on. Assuming, that is, that the events of later on do happen as they did in the book.
Last edited by gmalivuk on Mon Apr 14, 2014 8:38 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby pseudoidiot » Mon Apr 14, 2014 8:37 pm UTC

Very spoilery, but this article has a pretty good breakdown of how everything went down. A lot of this will probably be made more clear in later episodes, so if you want to wait for it to play out in the show, don't look at this. If you've read the books there's really nothing surprising here.

http://kotaku.com/the-big-thing-you-mig ... 1563058360
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby Dark567 » Mon Apr 14, 2014 8:48 pm UTC

gmalivuk wrote:On differences between book and series (so including some book spoilers), one thing I liked about this episode was the interaction between Tyrion and Shae.
Spoiler:
In the books, I don't remember there being adequate setup for her later betrayal, so I appreciate the scene in this episode that made it clearer why she might not care for him so much later on. Assuming, that is, that the events of later on do happen as they did in the book.
Book spoilers about that change
Spoiler:
I think in the book its clear that she is much less caring about Tyrion and more in it for the money(even if she claims she isn't), and in fact started on Tywin's payroll much sooner. Tywin has been hinted at(it was likely he who created the tunnel between the Tower of the Hand and the brothel) as quite fond of sex workers, so it wouldn't come as a surprise that he might have been hiring her for some time.
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby SlyReaper » Mon Apr 14, 2014 9:51 pm UTC

pseudoidiot wrote:Very spoilery, but this article has a pretty good breakdown of how everything went down. A lot of this will probably be made more clear in later episodes, so if you want to wait for it to play out in the show, don't look at this. If you've read the books there's really nothing surprising here.

http://kotaku.com/the-big-thing-you-mig ... 1563058360


Hmm, not sure I buy it.

Spoiler:
If Old Lady Tyrell was planning to murder Joffers, what's the point in arranging to have Sansa wear a necklace of poison? For a start, there was no guarantee she would wear it to the wedding. Secondly, how hard could it have possibly been for Old Lady Tyrell to conceal a small poisonous mcguffin in her dress? Don't get me wrong, I think Old Lady Tyrell is one of the chief suspects, but I just can't see a reason to go to all the trouble of putting it in a necklace and giving it to an unpredictable and non-complicit third party.

Edit: also, she had no way of knowing Tyrion would grab her cup in particular.
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby gmalivuk » Mon Apr 14, 2014 10:33 pm UTC

On the edit: She didn't have to know any such thing.
Spoiler:
The cup that ended up with poison in it had been put back on the table after the first time Joffrey drank from it, leaving ample opportunity for poison to be added before he drank from it again. And there may have been other reasons to use Sansa's necklace, if for no other reason than because she was a somewhat unpredictable third party. Anything to add to potential forensic confusion would benefit the people who were knowingly involved.

(And I don't think Sansa was knowingly involved, since while she has definitely learned a great deal more about scheming and duplicity since moving to King's Landing than she ever did in her years at Winterfell, at least so far it seems unlikely she's become familiar enough with it to actually help commit regicide.)
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby Diadem » Mon Apr 14, 2014 10:40 pm UTC

Spoiler:
I love reading all the speculation on the internet. I even read some theories that Cersei may have done it. You must have been watching an entirely different series than the rest of us, if you think is even a remote possibility.
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby CorruptUser » Tue Apr 15, 2014 3:07 am UTC

On Shae (Book & Show Spoilers)
Spoiler:
I liked in the books that Shae betrays Tyrion without provocation. While that makes her a less fleshed out character and merely "Tyrion's Whore", it makes Tyrion more vulnerable in that he trusts people that he should've known not to. It's minor and I suppose it works either way. Different characterization as a result, changes Shae from a manipulative player (like nearly everyone else in the story) to a woman after revenge. The more I think about it, I really can't say if it's better or worse this way. Completely changes the character.


Change from the book, but not really a spoiler. I didn't like that Bronn trained with Jaime instead of Illyn Paine (the mute executioner guy). Bronn might shut up for gold but he'll talk for a few more gold. Illyn was illiterate and mute, so he was the perfect one to keep a secret. It let Jaime explain his frustrations and everything, while Illyn got to mock him in his own way. Maybe it'll turn out for the best. They could have another reason for the change.

Question about Bran (Book spoiler)
Spoiler:
Was he always able to talk to trees? Thought that only came after he started being trained by the other Greenseer?

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby LaserGuy » Tue Apr 15, 2014 4:14 am UTC

CorruptUser wrote:Change from the book, but not really a spoiler. I didn't like that Bronn trained with Jaime instead of Illyn Paine (the mute executioner guy). Bronn might shut up for gold but he'll talk for a few more gold. Illyn was illiterate and mute, so he was the perfect one to keep a secret. It let Jaime explain his frustrations and everything, while Illyn got to mock him in his own way. Maybe it'll turn out for the best. They could have another reason for the change.


I've always wondered why he wouldn't train with Brienne. I guess it's a pride thing. She seems a natural choice.

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby Diadem » Tue Apr 15, 2014 5:38 am UTC

On Shae (book spoilers)
Spoiler:
I'm not sure I like the change. The problem I see is that if Shae only went to his father after he sent her away, then what reason does Tyrion have for killing her, other than pity revenge? In the books it was quite clear that she had betrayed him, but from how they are setting up it now it looks like she merely sought out a new protector after he rejected her. Hardly a capital offence. So if they don't play it out well, they could accidentally end up with very unfortunate implications for Tyrion's character.


Also (episode, but no book, spoiler)
Spoiler:
Did anybody else notice how prominently they featured Tommen? I mean he had no lines or anything, but the camera zoomed in on him several times, while hew as almost entirely ignored up until now. Probably they want to familiarize the audience with whoever is going to claim the throne next after Joffrey, but the notion that it's a hint that Tommen is the one who poisoned the wine is too interesting to ignore. Tommen probably has the means, and he certainly has the motive. And no one would ever suspect him. It's the perfect murder :)
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby TheGrammarBolshevik » Tue Apr 15, 2014 5:47 am UTC

That character was also recast, so it makes sense that they would want to give you a chance to figure out who he is.
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby SlyReaper » Tue Apr 15, 2014 6:21 am UTC

Who? Not familiar with that name.
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby Carlington » Tue Apr 15, 2014 6:40 am UTC

The younger(est?) Lannister boy, Joffrey's younger brother. (Is that right?)
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby Adacore » Tue Apr 15, 2014 6:58 am UTC

Technically Baratheon, not Lannister, but yeah. Cersei and Jaime Robert had three children: Joffrey, Myrcella (who was shipped off to Dorne in season 2) and Tommen.

Possible future book spoiler (I can't remember when in the series this is first mentioned):
Spoiler:
Interestingly (in light of recent events), Dorne is the only place in Westeros where male primogeniture is not the norm.

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby eSOANEM » Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:43 am UTC

Re:Shae, a lot of you probably want to tag those as book spoilers as well.

CorruptUser wrote:Change from the book, but not really a spoiler. I didn't like that Bronn trained with Jaime instead of Illyn Paine (the mute executioner guy). Bronn might shut up for gold but he'll talk for a few more gold. Illyn was illiterate and mute, so he was the perfect one to keep a secret. It let Jaime explain his frustrations and everything, while Illyn got to mock him in his own way. Maybe it'll turn out for the best. They could have another reason for the change.


I don't think we've seen Illyn since season 1 (at least not up close). They might have had issues to do with getting the actor back. I think there were similar things with the mountain in other seasns.

Adacore wrote:Technically Baratheon, not Lannister, but yeah. Cersei and Jaime Robert had three children: Joffrey, Myrcella (who was shipped off to Dorne in season 2) and Tommen.

Possible future book spoiler (I can't remember when in the series this is first mentioned):
Spoiler:
Interestingly (in light of recent events), Dorne is the only place in Westeros where male primogeniture is not the norm.


IRC it's mentioned as part of the whole "look at how uncivilised the dornishmen are". Also, because it's a bit of lore, I don't really think it counts as a spoiler.
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby Rodion Raskolnikov » Tue Apr 15, 2014 10:02 am UTC

The actor playing Illyn (Wilko Johnston) was diagnosed with terminal cancer last year so that probably forced the producers' hands somewhat.

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby CorruptUser » Tue Apr 15, 2014 11:33 am UTC

Ouch. That's the problem when you have a thousand named characters. In a book, they die when the author tells them to (which being Martin, is often). In real life, they die when they die. So rewrites are more or less constant. While being "A song of Ice and Fire", only Bran (ice) and Daenerys (fire) have plot armor. Or is Melisandre the fire and John Snow the ice?

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby Diadem » Tue Apr 15, 2014 12:02 pm UTC

The title "A song of Ice and Fire" is a reference to the poem: "Fire and Ice" by Robert Frost.

Robert Frost wrote:Some say the world will end in fire,
Some say in ice.
From what I've tasted of desire
I hold with those who favor fire.
But if it had to perish twice,
I think I know enough of hate
To say that for destruction ice
Is also great
And would suffice.


The poem is rather appropriate for the series. The world does get wrecked pretty badly by desire (desire for the iron throne most of all), but the true end might well come from hate (the white walkers).
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby SlyReaper » Tue Apr 15, 2014 12:17 pm UTC

Carlington wrote:The younger(est?) Lannister boy, Joffrey's younger brother. (Is that right?)

Clearly I've not been paying attention, because I didn't know Joffles had a younger brother.
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby CorruptUser » Tue Apr 15, 2014 12:27 pm UTC

In the books, Joffers would skin kittens. Tommen played with them. He's a few years older in the series, so his sadistic fetishes were also a few years older.


This may or may not be a spoiler, so I hid it. It's probably a moot point now that Joffers got his just deserts pie.
Spoiler:
Oh, another change from the books; it's a plot point but when Joffers chops up Tyrion's book, he mentions that he's no stranger to valerian steel. That reveals that HE was the one who hired the assassin to kill an unconscious Bran.
Last edited by CorruptUser on Tue Apr 15, 2014 10:39 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby SlyReaper » Tue Apr 15, 2014 12:58 pm UTC

Spoiler:
So, under medieval male succession rules, is Tommen now the king? I'd been thinking power would have passed to house Tyrell, thereby making the old lady a big suspect. But since Joffles has a brother, that doesn't apply any more, does it?
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby eSOANEM » Tue Apr 15, 2014 1:22 pm UTC

Tommen has the best claim to the throne but is too young to rule.

Margaery could claim the regency (but not the throne) as Queen Dowager whilst Cersei could claim the regency as Queen Mother/Dowager+1.

Also, as mentioned in a spoiler above (it's lore from the book, I don't think it's really a spoiler but will put it in one for consistency's sake):

Spoiler:
Myrcella (Joff's younger sister) is in Dorne. Dorne was never conquered by married into the Seven Kingdoms and, as part of that agreement, it was declared that Dornish law trumps the King's law in Dorne and, importantly, under Dornish law, inheritance is done by strict primogeniture rather than male primogeniture.

Myrcella is older than Tommen and so also has a strong claim and, being a ward of Prince Doran Martell would give the Dornish a strong claim to the regency and, well, the Dornish are not very fond of the Tyrells.
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby Diadem » Tue Apr 15, 2014 1:43 pm UTC

Reply to a something from the above spoiler (I don't think this warrants a spoiler itself):

Is there bad blood between the Dorne and the Tyrells? I don't recall that. Or did you mean the Lannisters?
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby maybeagnostic » Tue Apr 15, 2014 1:56 pm UTC

LaserGuy wrote:I've always wondered why he wouldn't train with Brienne. I guess it's a pride thing. She seems a natural choice.

Minor book spoiler (AFfC):
Spoiler:
I'm pretty sure Brienne is no longer in King's Landing by the time Jamie starts practicing in earnest.


S04E02:
Spoiler:
I really liked how they set up the wedding although Jeoffrey's death didn't have quite as much oomph as I was hoping. Nothing major changed from the books I just expected more somehow... I guess I've been waiting for it for too long. But I never thought the idea was for his death to be cathartic or some cosmic justice. When I was first reading I couldn't wait for him to die and when it came... well, he was just a fourteen-year-old boy that died scared and confused. He might've been a terrible human being but in the end I couldn't feel good about his death and I thought that was the point. After all he wasn't responsible for any of the major atrocities in the series. Robb and Daenerys are "heroes" and fan favorites but they've caused a lot more death and destruction following their own belifes/desires.

As for the whodunnit part of the episode, I think they did a very good job. Even knowing who does it and how, I still needed to watch the wedding a second time to see all the hints. The non-readers I watched it with accused Margaery, Olenna, Tywin, Cersei, Dontos, Sansa, and even the entertainers- all they could agree on was it couldn't've been Tyrion.

In other news, the North was really boring this episode. Was that girl Ramsay killed one of the two from last season or someone different?


Major book spoilers (ASoS):
Spoiler:
The who and why was pretty complicated but the episode totally sealed it for me that it was Olenna and Littlefinger working together. I just don't remember how the hairnet/necklace was supposed to be discovered. It must be for their plan to make sense but I don't recall what happened in the book.

CorruptUser, you still have some pretty major book spoilers that are not tagged as such.
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T: Emerrrgency induction port.

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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby eSOANEM » Tue Apr 15, 2014 2:00 pm UTC

Diadem wrote:Reply to a something from the above spoiler (I don't think this warrants a spoiler itself):

Is there bad blood between the Dorne and the Tyrells? I don't recall that. Or did you mean the Lannisters?


I don't think there's been anything recent, but they've historically been enemies. They both live in the far south of Westeros, one has all the money and the good farmland but the other has all the special privileges and get to call themselves "prince", it's not going to make for a happy relationship.
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Re: Game of Thrones: The TV Show (novelisation coming soon)

Postby LaserGuy » Tue Apr 15, 2014 2:01 pm UTC

Adacore wrote:Technically Baratheon, not Lannister, but yeah. Cersei and Jaime Robert had three children: Joffrey, Myrcella (who was shipped off to Dorne in season 2) and Tommen.

Possible future book spoiler (I can't remember when in the series this is first mentioned):
Spoiler:
Interestingly (in light of recent events), Dorne is the only place in Westeros where male primogeniture is not the norm.


The first mention I remember of it comes up near the end of book 3, a bit ahead of where the show is now, when...
Spoiler:
The Red Viper is talking to Tyrion pre-trial-by-combat. The Viper suggests that Sunspear would try to crown Mycella and asks Tyrion if he'd be willing to pay a visit to Dorne to help his niece out after the trial


Though it's possible it's mentioned earlier in the series, I suppose.


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