Sherlock Holmes Movie

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Sherlock Holmes Movie

Postby setzer777 » Tue May 26, 2009 9:06 pm UTC

Here's the trailer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8OM1BA2 ... r_embedded

So....Sherlock Holmes as an action star? I dunno....then again, it is just the trailer, those do tend to play up the action elements to the max, so it might still have enough of the original to be worthwhile.
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Re: Sherlock Holmes Movie

Postby Vieto » Tue May 26, 2009 9:33 pm UTC

Downie Jr. is a good actor choice, but the trailer was... I don't know, Holmes is an intellectual detective, not an action figure. And Watson...

They are going to ruin this, I can tell.

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Re: Sherlock Holmes Movie

Postby rheakith » Tue May 26, 2009 9:56 pm UTC

I think that if the trailer was composed of the only action scenes in the whole movie, it will be fine. But I wholeheartedly agree that there needs to be more detecting and less gun fights and explosions.

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Re: Sherlock Holmes Movie

Postby charliepanayi » Tue May 26, 2009 10:07 pm UTC

I'm not so fussed about the action aspects, I'm more worried about having Guy 'one trick pony' Ritchie as director. Hopefully Robert Downey Jr can bring some of the charm he brought to Iron Man to this role.
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Re: Sherlock Holmes Movie

Postby pseudoidiot » Tue May 26, 2009 10:18 pm UTC

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Re: Sherlock Holmes Movie

Postby MiB24601 » Wed May 27, 2009 3:22 am UTC

setzer777 wrote:So....Sherlock Holmes as an action star? I dunno....then again, it is just the trailer, those do tend to play up the action elements to the max, so it might still have enough of the original to be worthwhile.


The original stories do show Holmes to have significant physical prowess. He defeated several villains, including Moriarty in hand-to-hand combat and was indicated to be a highly skilled boxer, capable of holding his own against a world-class prize-fighter. Holmes is also supposed to be capable with fire-arms, swords and other weapons.

Having Holmes be a capable fighter doesn't bug me at all, since it comes from the original material. The fact that Holmes seems distracted by a woman is more worrying. Unless the woman in the trailer is Irene Adler, that's just a no go.
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Re: Sherlock Holmes Movie

Postby rheakith » Wed May 27, 2009 3:24 am UTC

The website linked earlier has her as Irene Adler, which would make sense having her as the only large female role.

It's not that he can fight and does some of the time that bothers me, it's that the trailer was FULL of action shots and that's about it.

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Re: Sherlock Holmes Movie

Postby steewi » Wed May 27, 2009 5:19 am UTC

rheakith wrote:It's not that he can fight and does some of the time that bothers me, it's that the trailer was FULL of action shots and that's about it.

That worries me vaguely, too. On the other hand, I'm pretty sure it's written as a blockbuster not an artfilm indie intellectual classic, so I expect to be entertained and told a fun story based vaguely on the original story with heavy influence from later interpretations, not a faithful interpretation of the original with an interesting new interpretation of the possibilities.

If then, it is a blockbuster, you must expect:
- a larger female role. Sherlock Holmes is like Lord of the Rings and its ilk, where the original has no large female role. That doesn't go over well at all these days, so one must be created. It would be nice if Holmes doesn't get the girl, but it doesn't look likely that that will be the case.
- action scenes. A contemporary blockbuster is not dialogue driven. It's plot driven. By Hollywood interpretation that means action scenes. Dialogue is for indie artfilms.
- Special FX. If it doesn't have effects, it won't get the demographics who pay more money in.
- A cheesy modern song over the credits. I know they feel they have to do this, but I hate it anyway. It will still happen.

I'll see it. I liked Ironman a lot. I like Rober D Jr. I like steampunk. It will be fun, even if it's crap.

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Re: Sherlock Holmes Movie

Postby Moo » Wed May 27, 2009 5:27 am UTC

That looks like it might be a fantastic pop corn action film with a bit of steam punk bad-ass - if they just didn't have to go and call it "Sherlock Holmes". It doesn't appear to have maintained any semblence of the original save the names and time period :?
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Re: Sherlock Holmes Movie

Postby DarkKnightJared » Thu May 28, 2009 7:26 am UTC

I seem to remember a set visit from Moriarty (ironically) about the film, and it sounds like, besides the new villain with seemingly supernatural power, that it's more or less faithful to the original concept, with some parts amped to make a blockbuster (such as Holmes formidable fighting skills and turning that into participating in Ye Olde Fight Club).

Plus the bit in the end with the maid was frickin' hilarious. :D

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Re: Sherlock Holmes Movie

Postby Lucrece » Fri May 29, 2009 4:39 am UTC

Didn't Holmes meet his end at the waterfall when fighting Moriarty?
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Re: Sherlock Holmes Movie

Postby charliepanayi » Fri May 29, 2009 8:21 am UTC

Lucrece wrote:Didn't Holmes meet his end at the waterfall when fighting Moriarty?


Oringally yes (or at least his fate was implied in The Adventure of the Final Problem), but the public outcry when that story was published was such that Arthur Conan Doyle eventually decided to bring Holmes back for more stories, explaining that he hadn't met his end at the Reichenbach Falls after all (the lack of any actual eyewitness account of Holmes' 'death' in The Final Problem meant that Conan Doyle had a way of plausibly bringing him back).
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Re: Sherlock Holmes Movie

Postby Mother Superior » Fri May 29, 2009 8:33 am UTC

I think this could be fun, even if not terribly sherlock holmes-y. But even so, he is a skilled fighter and even though there aren't many females in the original stories, Holmes wasn't exactly a believer in clean living, so I wouldn't mind if he slept around. Of course, if he's going to have a love interest, well... that's another thing. That doesn't bode well.

Still, it's got Robert Downey Jr as Holmes, a great actor, and Jude Law as Watson, who is also an actor.
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Re: Sherlock Holmes Movie

Postby Sir_Elderberry » Sat Jun 06, 2009 3:07 am UTC

charliepanayi wrote:
Lucrece wrote:Didn't Holmes meet his end at the waterfall when fighting Moriarty?


Oringally yes (or at least his fate was implied in The Adventure of the Final Problem), but the public outcry when that story was published was such that Arthur Conan Doyle eventually decided to bring Holmes back for more stories, explaining that he hadn't met his end at the Reichenbach Falls after all (the lack of any actual eyewitness account of Holmes' 'death' in The Final Problem meant that Conan Doyle had a way of plausibly bringing him back).

Also, ACD realized that Holmes would make him outrageous piles of money.
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Re: Sherlock Holmes Movie

Postby charliepanayi » Sat Jun 06, 2009 9:19 am UTC

Though surely it already HAD made him piles of money by then - maybe more piles of money is a better way of putting it.
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Re: Sherlock Holmes Movie

Postby Virtual_Aardvark » Sun Jun 07, 2009 12:27 am UTC

This has the potential to be massively entertaining, if not all that good. I could watch Robert Downey Jr. quip for hours and still have fun, Jude Law is usually wonderful, and apparently very dry and cynical in this. The costumes and set look great, and though I hate to admit it I love me some Victorian one liners.
Plot-wise I'm not expecting much.

The real question is how much cocaine will Holmes use in the course of the film?
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Re: Sherlock Holmes Movie

Postby ssbookyu123 » Sun Jun 07, 2009 4:51 pm UTC

I thought that Sherlock Holmes was on heroin but then again I could be wrong. Looks like a good movie but literature teachers are going to hate it when the students ask were the action scenes are. :D

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Re: Sherlock Holmes Movie

Postby Izawwlgood » Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:02 pm UTC

Holmes was addicted to opium. I thought.

I think Robert Downy Jr. is perfect for this role. House is a good knock off, but too much of a jackass and a misanthropist to be fully Holmesian as far as I understand the character. This looks like it'll be a fun bastardization/reinterpretation.
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Re: Sherlock Holmes Movie

Postby Mother Superior » Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:50 pm UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:Holmes was addicted to opium. I thought.

Quite the opposite. Cocaine was his game. He disliked Opium.
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Re: Sherlock Holmes Movie

Postby Izawwlgood » Sun Jun 07, 2009 7:45 pm UTC

I remember him injecting cocaine, which struck me as odd, frequently, but I seem to recall him being addicted to morphine?

I fully admit I could be wrong, as I read part of one of the stories ages ago and just talked about Holmes as a character with a more well read fan... I'll just check the wiki.

EDIT: Yup. You was right, he did inject coke and did hate opium.
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Re: Sherlock Holmes Movie

Postby Virtual_Aardvark » Sun Jun 07, 2009 8:33 pm UTC

He liked to experiment with various drugs to see the effects for himself. At least that's what I remember.
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Re: Sherlock Holmes Movie

Postby poxic » Sun Jun 07, 2009 8:56 pm UTC

I might go see this. I dunno. The Jeremy Brett series rather ruined any other interpretations for me -- I see Brett in my mind's eye now when I think of Holmes. (He didn't have the "look" the way Basil Rathbone did, but he had the manic, coke-fueled intensity down perfectly. I adored his portrayal, as much as I would have been irritated by a real person who acted that way. :shock: )
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Re: Sherlock Holmes Movie

Postby dubsola » Tue Jun 09, 2009 3:08 pm UTC

"Cocaine - a seven percent solution."

That is what he liked to inject.

Mother Superior wrote:Jude Law as Watson, who is also an actor.

That's still a compliment, was it meant to be? Jude Law's alright, I suppose.

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Re: Sherlock Holmes Movie

Postby markfiend » Tue Jun 09, 2009 3:27 pm UTC

Interestingly, Jude Law was actually in one of the Jeremy Brett Holmes episodes. (Shoscombe Old Place IIRC.)

Brett is Holmes and Holmes is Brett. No-one else can come close. Guy Ritchie should be shot for even thinking about this.
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Sherlock Holmes

Postby BlackSails » Sat Dec 26, 2009 1:28 am UTC

What was with the wierd slap-fighting Holmes was doing the entire movie? At the end, Watson pulled off an armbar, followed by a transition to the back and a collar choke, but the rest of the movie was Holmes slapping people in the face.

I really did not like
Spoiler:
the whole da-vinci code-esque thing

Also, in the movie, Holmes doesnt spend most of his time high on coke cruising for prostitutes



The movie was pretty good though

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Re: Sherlock Holmes Movie

Postby Zohar » Sat Dec 26, 2009 9:10 am UTC

I'm surprised it didn't get more responses after the movie came out (except for the one thread that someone bothered to duplicate). I saw it yesterday. It was pretty fun, lots of funny moments, I liked the atmosphere a lot. I haven't seen other adaptations so I can't really compare, but I very much doubt it is very similar to the books.
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Re: Sherlock Holmes

Postby Gellert1984 » Sat Dec 26, 2009 6:03 pm UTC

BlackSails wrote:What was with the wierd slap-fighting Holmes was doing the entire movie? At the end, Watson pulled off an armbar, followed by a transition to the back and a collar choke, but the rest of the movie was Holmes slapping people in the face.

I really did not like
Spoiler:
the whole da-vinci code-esque thing

Also, in the movie, Holmes doesnt spend most of his time high on coke cruising for prostitutes



The movie was pretty good though


Spoiler:
I took it to mean he was having fun, take the fight club scene, he took a few blows but avoided the worst revelling in pain then when Adler turned up he ended the fight. You can tell by the way he shocked the audience that the change was abrupt, however when he faces the french guy, he can't take him out quickly cos the guy's a tank.

What devinci code thing? It's been a long time since I saw that piece of crap.


Overall I enjoyed it.
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Re: Sherlock Holmes Movie

Postby BlackSails » Sat Dec 26, 2009 7:26 pm UTC

Spoiler:
By da vinci code thing I mean: quick, lets plot the murders on a map and see where the last point of the cross is!


I hope they make sequels to it, although I think its really the sort of thing that would be better as a TV show, especially considering most of the Holmes stories were short stories anyway.

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Re: Sherlock Holmes Movie

Postby Sir_Elderberry » Sat Dec 26, 2009 10:43 pm UTC

I just got back. I liked it.
Spoiler:
I think they got the action-to-detective ratio fairly correct. Have Holmes deduce where they ought to go or ought to do. Go attempt it. Fight people when you get there. Fair enough.

At first I was mad that there was such "obvious" magic in the movie and thought they ought to have left it more ambiguous (or not have it at all), but then I started to think "Waaaait...I've been in chemistry. Lots of things bubble when you put them in water. Lots of things will explode and burn rather vigorously if sparked, as with a gun...maybe they'll save this." And they did. Although "we coated him with liquid napalm AND replaced his bullets" was a bit farfetched.


I'll go see a sequel if it's released.
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Re: Sherlock Holmes Movie

Postby Wolf » Sun Dec 27, 2009 5:46 am UTC

I just went and saw it today and I rather enjoyed it. I thought all the roles were well casted and the setting was really well-done. (I can't comment about similarity to the original stories, as I've only read one or two of them.)

As for the fighting question:

Spoiler:
I also had the impression he was going it more to mess with the other boxer/fighter, considering that when he finally decided to end the fights he was in he was capable of ending them very quickly and brutally.
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Re: Sherlock Holmes Movie

Postby JCM » Mon Dec 28, 2009 1:22 am UTC

I'm highly exited for this, hoping that Hollywood will have pity on the man who started an entire franchise and won't ruin it like they did everything else they ever got their crummy little hands on this decade. What better way to end it than a well thought-out mystery?

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Re: Sherlock Holmes Movie

Postby frogman » Mon Dec 28, 2009 1:29 am UTC

I actually rather quite liked it.

Spoiler:
The magic stuff was actually quite believable, and I thought they were going to make it actual supernatural stuff. I was pleasantly surprised at the end.

Fighting stuff was also quite cool.
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Re: Sherlock Holmes Movie

Postby mosc » Mon Dec 28, 2009 6:13 am UTC

This movie was decent. Very entertaining. For a fairly long movie, there wasn't much character development. Most of the time was focused on crime scene investigation Holmes internal monologues (some of them a little trippy) and beat-em-up action sequences. Downey Jr. was excellent leveraging his natural quick whit and confidence to the role. The other characters were not very well flushed out and as such suffered greatly. Particularly so was a very confusing portrait of Watson as an intelligent, complex, and even compulsive character yet one who was easily manipulated throughout the film. The female lead was similarly a bag of intelligent backstory and moronic behavior. Not a good character piece but plenty of good action and male shirtless fun for those so wanting. Should exceed low expectations but is hardly rememberable.
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Re: Sherlock Holmes Movie

Postby Spacemilk » Mon Dec 28, 2009 4:35 pm UTC

I quite enjoyed this movie. I thought there was a decent bit of character development, actually: For example, take Watson:
Spoiler:
I was quite impressed with how smoothly they hinted at his gambling problem: First, when Holmes commented that he'd made Watson's "usual bet" at the boxing fight, then again when they were about to go in to the ginger dwarf's lab and Watson hesitated at the dice game. Holmes gently prodded him not to "throw away his money" there, and we got to see how both Holmes and Watson took care of each other; it wasn't at all one-sided. According to my sister, there was one other reference to Watson's gambling problem but I missed it and can't remember it now.

I also disagree that Watson was easily manipulated but I guess it depends on your definition of "easily" and "manipulated":
Spoiler:
Yes, Holmes does manipulate him, but it's not in a harmful or cruel or even subtle way. The palm reader? Watson figured it out before the crazy woman stopped talking, and it was actually humorous. Holmes leaving his pistol behind? Watson even muttered to himself that he knew it was deliberate. Pissing off Watson's soon-to-be fiancee? Watson even knew it was coming, because he knew Holmes didn't want him to move out. We all got a very good idea that Holmes was extremely intelligent and could have manipulated Watson to the point where Watson wouldn't know it was happening. He didn't, though, because (a) he respected and liked Watson and didn't want to do that to him, and (b) I felt like his obvious manipulation was an indirect way to address problems. Sure, that's not exactly, um, healthy, but it provides character development - rather than tell Watson, "Hey, I would like it if you stayed," he hires a freaking palm reader to fake a reading. Not only does that offer insight to their relationship and Holmes himself, but it's funny! And as far as leaving his pistol as he left - I felt like that was Holmes way of saying, "Listen, I'd like you to come, but you don't have to, and if you say no, you don't have to say it to my face - but I'd really like you to come!" It hints at the level of emotional development Holmes has, which was a theme in the books.

The subtle character development made for very complex, occasionally contradictory, lead characters, which I felt was a refreshing change from the usual Hollywood fare of 2-D characters. I wish they would've confronted Holmes' drug problem a little more directly since I thought it was more integral to the books, but I guess that may have changed the rating.
About Irene Adler:
I liked her as a character. Very interesting backstory, wish we'd heard more of her exploits. Also I wish we could've gotten inside her mind, the way we were allowed into Holmes' mind. At the same time,
Spoiler:
the way she constantly outsmarted Holmes (occasionally with Moriarty's help and planning, granted) was very interesting, and also helped set up Moriarty as a scary person, since she was frightened of him. Consider that the only time Holmes "outsmarted" her was when she'd gotten knocked out from taking quite a fall. That hardly counts as "outsmarting".

About Holmes' slap-fighting:
I felt like he did this for two reasons: 1) to toy with his opponents, and 2) to enrage them so they would overextend himself. We saw this quite a bit in the boxing scene (which, as a side note, I felt was wayyy too similar to the boxing scene in "Snatch" - granted, they're both Guy Ritchie but I would've liked to see him stretch himself a little more) where he was
Spoiler:
slap-fighting just to toy with his opponent. When he finally decides the match is over, and he's no longer amused/distracted by the fight (because he's found something much more distracting and worrisome in Irene Adler's appearance) he ends it extremely quickly. It's very obvious he doesn't need to "slap-fight".

Last thoughts:
Was pleased with the casting, though Irene looked so much younger than Holmes, it was a little weird. Was extremely happy with the plot -
Spoiler:
THANK GOD they stuck with the Sherlock theme of having a practical explanation behind potentially supernatural occurences. I was very worried it was going to go all Hollywood on us and actually make it truly magic.
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Re: Sherlock Holmes Movie

Postby Izawwlgood » Mon Dec 28, 2009 5:19 pm UTC

Was Irene's character true to the stories?

Also, guh, film was such a lame rip off of House. God, this Arthur Conan Doyle guy is SO unoriginal.
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Re: Sherlock Holmes Movie

Postby Spacemilk » Mon Dec 28, 2009 5:43 pm UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:Was Irene's character true to the stories?

Not really. She wasn't a prominent character; she was only in one story. And while Holmes admired her highly, he gave no appearance of "loving" her or being "attracted" to her in the sense we may think of those things. Thanks to Wiki, here is a quote from the story she's in:
To Sherlock Holmes she is always the woman. I have seldom heard him mention her under any other name. In his eyes she eclipses and predominates the whole of her sex. It was not that he felt any emotion akin to love for Irene Adler. All emotions, and that one particularly, were abhorrent to his cold, precise but admirably balanced mind. He was, I take it, the most perfect reasoning and observing machine that the world has seen, but as a lover he would have placed himself in a false position. He never spoke of the softer passions, save with a gibe and a sneer. They were admirable things for the observer — excellent for drawing the veil from men's motives and actions. But for the trained reasoner to admit such intrusions into his own delicate and finely adjusted temperament was to introduce a distracting factor which might throw a doubt upon all his mental results. Grit in a sensitive instrument, or a crack in one of his own high-power lenses, would not be more disturbing than a strong emotion in a nature such as his. And yet there was but one woman to him, and that woman was the late Irene Adler, of dubious and questionable memory.

However if you read Wiki further, you find that non-ACD stories (I guess you would call them early appearance of "fanfic" for Sherlock) put forward ideas that they may have had some hanky panky later on.
Also, guh, film was such a lame rip off of House. God, this Arthur Conan Doyle guy is SO unoriginal.

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Re: Sherlock Holmes Movie

Postby Izawwlgood » Mon Dec 28, 2009 8:26 pm UTC

Curious. I suppose I should just do a bit of research to find out, but MiB might be reading right now; Was this story an original ACD plot line?

I'm also curious about Holmes sense of humor, as in, did he have one?
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Re: Sherlock Holmes Movie

Postby Zohar » Mon Dec 28, 2009 9:02 pm UTC

I haven't read any Holmes stories but I'm 99% certain it's original, or inspired by various parts, considering some of the plot devices employed. As for a sense of humor, yes, he does have one. And the movie is quite funny in general.
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Re: Sherlock Holmes Movie

Postby Izawwlgood » Mon Dec 28, 2009 9:16 pm UTC

RDJ owns the rights to the behavior we call 'Snark'. True story.
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Re: Sherlock Holmes Movie

Postby headprogrammingczar » Tue Dec 29, 2009 12:11 am UTC

Zohar wrote:I haven't read any Holmes stories but I'm 99% certain it's original

Izawwlgood was being sarcastic, I think. If you've ever seen an interview with the people who created House, the first thing they mention is how much of an influence Sherlock Holmes was. Wikipedia says that in the middle of the series, Wilson messes with House's team's heads by creating an imaginary girlfriend of House named Irene Addler.
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