Page 1 of 2

Joss Whedon doing writer things again.

Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 10:38 pm UTC
by Spambot5546
He's making a horror film called "Cabin in the Woods".

Trailer here.

I didn't see her in the trailer, but IMDB says Amy Acker is in this. With Topher already in we've got a Dollhouse reunion.

Re: Joss Whedon doing director things again.

Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 10:51 pm UTC
by Zarq
With the most generic plot ever:

Five friends go to a remote cabin in the woods. Bad things happen.


I'm hoping it's a parody or something.

Re: Joss Whedon doing director things again.

Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 11:48 am UTC
by Shifter
"We should split up" ... "Really?"

I'm guessing that he's trying to see what the "Five friends go to a remote cabin in the woods. Bad things happen" storyline would be like without all the cliches that generally make it shit.

Re: Joss Whedon doing director things again.

Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 1:49 pm UTC
by SirBryghtside
Yeah, it's a parody of sorts. The trailer and tagline makes that pretty obvious.

Re: Joss Whedon doing director things again.

Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 3:58 pm UTC
by pseudoidiot
Might should change the thread title. It's a bit misleading since Joss didn't actually direct the movie (at least not according to the imdb page).

Re: Joss Whedon doing writer things again.

Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 4:03 pm UTC
by Spambot5546
On closer inspection, you are right. I have fixed it.

Re: Joss Whedon doing writer things again.

Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 1:49 pm UTC
by Nerd Mike
I look forward to anything Joss Whedon does. After Buffy/Angel/Firefly/Dr. Horrible, he gets much love and the benefit of the doubt from me. But at the same time, the shine has kind of worn off. I'm not the fanboy I once might have been.

I'll watch it, and I'm hoping it entertains, but really I'd love to see him do more serial stuff. It doesn't have to be a full series, but something episodic and long form that lets him really develop and polish the characters, because that's where he shines.

Re: Joss Whedon doing writer things again.

Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 3:24 pm UTC
by AvatarIII
I want to see this, but Tucker & Dale vs Evil (which incidentally starred Alan "Wash/Alpha" Tudyk) already mixed up the clichéd "college kids go to a cabin in the woods" formula so well, I feel I might be disappointed, this is from the guy that wrote Alien Resurrection.... :wink:

Re: Joss Whedon doing writer things again.

Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 3:55 pm UTC
by Jesse
AvatarIII wrote:I want to see this, but Tucker & Dale vs Evil (which incidentally starred Alan "Wash/Alpha" Tudyk) already mixed up the clichéd "college kids go to a cabin in the woods" formula so well, I feel I might be disappointed, this is from the guy that wrote Alien Resurrection.... :wink:


From the guy who wrote a really good script for Alien: Ressurection, that was then turned into a terrible film.

Re: Joss Whedon doing writer things again.

Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 3:59 pm UTC
by AvatarIII
Jesse wrote:
AvatarIII wrote:I want to see this, but Tucker & Dale vs Evil (which incidentally starred Alan "Wash/Alpha" Tudyk) already mixed up the clichéd "college kids go to a cabin in the woods" formula so well, I feel I might be disappointed, this is from the guy that wrote Alien Resurrection.... :wink:


From the guy who wrote a really good script for Alien: Ressurection, that was then turned into a terrible film.


I was joking, I actually quite like A:R, except for the forced humour.

Re: Joss Whedon doing director things again.

Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 7:20 am UTC
by Amnesiasoft
SirBryghtside wrote:Yeah, it's a parody of sorts.

A parody of horror? That's a recipe for disaster. Trying to make something that's already funny into something funny is a recipe for disaster.

Re: Joss Whedon doing director things again.

Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 11:35 pm UTC
by Zarq
Amnesiasoft wrote:
SirBryghtside wrote:Yeah, it's a parody of sorts.

A parody of horror? That's a recipe for disaster. Trying to make something that's already funny into something funny is a recipe for disaster.


2 words: Død snø.

Re: Joss Whedon doing director things again.

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 11:05 pm UTC
by PerchloricAcid
Zarq wrote:With the most generic plot ever:

Five friends go to a remote cabin in the woods. Bad things happen.


I rarely actually laugh out loud. Now I did. :lol:

Re: Joss Whedon doing director things again.

Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:34 am UTC
by Amnesiasoft
Zarq wrote:
Amnesiasoft wrote:
SirBryghtside wrote:Yeah, it's a parody of sorts.

A parody of horror? That's a recipe for disaster. Trying to make something that's already funny into something funny is a recipe for disaster.


2 words: Død snø.

That hardly sounds like parody to me, sounds like proper horror.

Re: Joss Whedon doing writer things again.

Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 8:55 pm UTC
by freeloader
Maybe it's a parody of a parody of horror?

Re: Joss Whedon doing director things again.

Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 8:52 pm UTC
by Nath
Amnesiasoft wrote:
SirBryghtside wrote:Yeah, it's a parody of sorts.

A parody of horror? That's a recipe for disaster. Trying to make something that's already funny into something funny is a recipe for disaster.

The counter-example rhymes with 'Dawn of the Shed'.

Re: Joss Whedon doing writer things again.

Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:33 pm UTC
by eSOANEM
I saw the cabin in the woods today and it was awesome.

It was very funny, and very Joss-y and felt a bit like a Buffy two-parter (in style, not in specifics, I wouldn't be expecting much "in every generation" stuff) which played out a bit closer to the standard horror tropes than usual.

Slight spoilers (brief plot summary, revealed early on):

Spoiler:
So the five people go to the cabin in the woods for a weekend "off grid" where "they" can't "globally position [the characters'] asses". So far so standard.

Then comes the part where there're some guys in a military-ish facility (kind of initiative-ish) are plotting badness for the five.


Slightly bigger spoilers (revealed fairly early on):

Spoiler:
Then the cellar door opens, they go inside and read a diary including a bit in latin, despite Fran Kranz telling them not to.

Then a family of pain worshipping zombie rednecks wake up (it was their girl's diary they read) to kill them all.

The guys in the facility had a betting pool on what sort of monster they'd awake


Big spoilers:

Spoiler:
A group of five people must be sacrificed in a slightly-specified order every so often in order to prevent the evil gods from in the ancient past rising again and killing all life.

A couple get killed, one jumps off a cliff into a force field trying to escape, most of them die.

Two of the five survive the zombies and escape in a lift into the facility (along with one of the zombies who was "dismembered with a trowel" by Fran Kranz whilst high and having been stabbed in the back with a big knife.

They're then about to be sacrificed to complete the process and placate the evil gods (but at this stage, they don't know this) so, to try and save their lives, they unleash all the monsters in the facility into it to try and kill off the guys trying to kill them.

Lots of running around corridors and cool stuff happens until they end up in a ritual chamber with five stone carvings, four of which have blood in the carvings.


Enormous spoilers:

Spoiler:
Then the director of the facility appears and reveals all and one of the characters (who just had the guy she was being set up with killed in front of her with blood splat on her face) has to decide whether to kill Fran Kranz or let the world end.

Eventually she doesn't kill him and the world ends. Yay!

What did you expect? Joss doesn't do happy endings.

Re: Joss Whedon doing writer things again.

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 3:02 am UTC
by LaserGuy
freeloader wrote:Maybe it's a parody of a parody of horror?


I think satire is probably a better word. Or parody in the classical sense of the term. It doesn't necessarily have to be funny. The movie Scream, for example, is a satirical deconstruction of more classic horror films, but isn't particularly funny; rather it's genre-savvy. Lord of the Flies is a satire of The Coral Island, and isn't funny either.

Re: Joss Whedon doing writer things again.

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 6:39 am UTC
by eSOANEM
LaserGuy wrote:
freeloader wrote:Maybe it's a parody of a parody of horror?


I think satire is probably a better word. Or parody in the classical sense of the term. It doesn't necessarily have to be funny. The movie Scream, for example, is a satirical deconstruction of more classic horror films, but isn't particularly funny; rather it's genre-savvy. Lord of the Flies is a satire of The Coral Island, and isn't funny either.


^This.

As it happens. It is funny. But not due to any crass parody, just due to the witty dialogue (but then Joss was involved so what were you expecting?). The main thing with it is that it acknowledges the standard horror tropes and explores them. More than that, it explores the idea of why the characters might follow those tropes.

Re: Joss Whedon doing writer things again.

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 8:16 am UTC
by Pez Dispens3r
Seems like it has a post-modern tinge to it. From the trailers it's obvious with the fake scenery forcefields that the five are being filmed on an elaborate set, so to some extent it seems like this movie is about the process of making a horror movie.

Having read the spoilers, though, I'm not sure what sort of conclusions you could draw from that sort of an interpretation. It's have to see the movie to say anything more sensible.

Re: Joss Whedon doing writer things again.

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 5:06 pm UTC
by eSOANEM
Pez Dispens3r wrote:Seems like it has a post-modern tinge to it. From the trailers it's obvious with the fake scenery forcefields that the five are being filmed on an elaborate set, so to some extent it seems like this movie is about the process of making a horror movie.


This is a fairly accurate interpretation. I'd say it's closer to an exploration of the ritualised nature of your standard horror plot and why this might be though.

Re: Joss Whedon doing writer things again.

Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 5:23 pm UTC
by H.E.L.e.N.
The generic plot description is a lie. Cabin takes place in a Whedonized universe that is a lot of fun to watch.

Re: Joss Whedon doing writer things again.

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 6:45 pm UTC
by meridian
To me, it felt like:
Spoiler:
A chance to look into a department at Wolfram & Hart that doesn't actually want the world to end.


It was great. I shall be going back to watch it again, maybe soonish, maybe not.

Re: Joss Whedon doing writer things again.

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:22 pm UTC
by SirBryghtside
H.E.L.e.N. wrote:The generic plot description is a lie. Cabin takes place in a Whedonized universe that is a lot of fun to watch.

That's probably for the best. I mean, even reading the first entry on the actor list on IMDB is a fairly big spoiler. And that trailer... I'm just glad it didn't reveal Act 3.

Edit: Haha, just saw the TV Tropes page. Never before has there been a higher density of spoiler tags in one page :P

Re: Joss Whedon doing writer things again.

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 10:38 pm UTC
by eSOANEM
meridian wrote:To me, it felt like:
Spoiler:
A chance to look into a department at Wolfram & Hart that doesn't actually want the world to end.



I like this description. It captures the film well.

Re: Joss Whedon doing writer things again.

Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 5:08 am UTC
by CorruptUser
Spoiler:
WE are the Ancient Ones who crave the gore and stupid cliches, and people will make the movies to give us what we demand.

Re: Joss Whedon doing writer things again.

Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 11:53 pm UTC
by ArgonV
Can you give me a spoiler-free description of how gory this movie is? Some friends and me are going to see this tomorrow, a friend of mine wants to join in, but she needs to know how bad the gore is. I'm paraphrasing here, but: 'If it's blood, I'm game. If intestines are flying around I won't sleep for a month'.

Re: Joss Whedon doing writer things again.

Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 7:00 am UTC
by eSOANEM
It's mainly blood although, in a couple of instances, it is a hell of a lot of it. There are a few slightly more guts-y bits but they're not shown in much detail and aren't dwelled on.

Re: Joss Whedon doing writer things again.

Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 10:58 am UTC
by ArgonV
Which is apparently still too gory for her. Thanks anyway!

Re: Joss Whedon doing writer things again.

Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 8:43 pm UTC
by cephalopod9
The blood was not quite the right color or opacity. Also, there is some dismemberment in the movie.

I have a question for Joss Whedon fans: Am I right in reading the annoying nerd boys (like Wash in Firefly, and Topher in Dollhouse) as author avatars?

Whedon is really good at crafting interesting scenarios, and mostly interesting characters to populate them with, but the way they play out is never quite what it could be. I know there's been a dose of sabotage in a number of his projects, but I also think his writing style is just not what I want it to be.

Re: Joss Whedon doing writer things again.

Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 12:39 pm UTC
by eSOANEM
cephalopod9 wrote:I have a question for Joss Whedon fans: Am I right in reading the annoying nerd boys (like Wash in Firefly, and Topher in Dollhouse) as author avatars?


I wouldn't say annoying, Topher and Wash are some of my favourite characters (although, in the case of Wash, I could say the same about half the crew). As for their being audience avatars, I certainly think it would be reasonable to read Topher that way (and in that sense, the entire show could be interpreted as a metaphor for consumerist TV/film with the dolls being the actors) but I'm less sure about Wash, Wash is in his own way, pretty badass (if you saw war stories) in a way which I don't think an audience avatar would be.

I think Marty in Cabin (who is, played by the guy who played Topher) definitely fits the bill of audience avatar very much (his reaction to the suggestion they should split up is perfect).

cephalopod9 wrote:Whedon is really good at crafting interesting scenarios, and mostly interesting characters to populate them with, but the way they play out is never quite what it could be. I know there's been a dose of sabotage in a number of his projects, but I also think his writing style is just not what I want it to be.


Do you have any particular examples (spoilering them would be fine)? From what you've said here alone though, it sounds like a matter of personal taste, which is fine.

Re: Joss Whedon doing writer things again.

Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 7:08 pm UTC
by Zarq
cephalopod9 wrote:The blood was not quite the right color or opacity. Also, there is some dismemberment in the movie.

I have a question for Joss Whedon fans: Am I right in reading the annoying nerd boys (like Wash in Firefly, and Topher in Dollhouse) as author avatars?

Whedon is really good at crafting interesting scenarios, and mostly interesting characters to populate them with, but the way they play out is never quite what it could be. I know there's been a dose of sabotage in a number of his projects, but I also think his writing style is just not what I want it to be.


Why do you think Wash is annoying?

Re: Joss Whedon doing writer things again.

Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 9:17 pm UTC
by cephalopod9
It's a personal opinion thing (Maybe it'd be more accurate to call them Super-Special-Nerd-Boys, because it's less subjective that they have nerd-talents, which kind of inflates their importance to their group) , but the "I'm clever and I need to be center of attention right now" kinda behavior really grates on me. There's also that episode where he gets himself captured in the process of
Spoiler:
throwin' a hissy-fit over how Mal gets attention that he doesn't, so then Zoey has to save the day, and in the process makes a point to show him how super special he is to her. Then she makes dinner for him and everyone is happy and Mal gets his ear sewn back on. the end.
eSOANEM wrote:I think Marty in Cabin (who is, played by the guy who played Topher) definitely fits the bill of audience avatar very much (his reaction to the suggestion they should split up is perfect).
I keep forgetting his name, because I've been mentally calling him Toker since he first showed up in the movie.
Toker as an audience avatar doesn't make sense
Spoiler:
and is redundant with the levels of puppeteers actually critiquing and controlling the characters for their own amusement.
He does get to play the voice of reason, and see through the illusion.
I just had to groan when he survives! just because he is so special! and just knows how hot-wire an elevator! because magic weed or something*

eSOANEM wrote:
cephalopod9 wrote:Whedon is really good at crafting interesting scenarios, and mostly interesting characters to populate them with, but the way they play out is never quite what it could be. I know there's been a dose of sabotage in a number of his projects, but I also think his writing style is just not what I want it to be.
Do you have any particular examples (spoilering them would be fine)? From what you've said here alone though, it sounds like a matter of personal taste, which is fine.
The biggest dissapointment for me was probably the relationship between Kaylee and Simon on Firefly
Spoiler:
It just felt like he completely skipped over actually exploring these characters and how they would feel and act in these situations in favor of rehashing cliches and falling back on treating them like gender tropes. Like, wouldn't you think the person who left an uncaring home under stressful circumstances, to care for a high-needs sibling amongst strangers in unfamiliar, largely unwelcoming environment might need more emotional support than the person who is comfortable with, and supported by, the adopted family that came with pursuing a dream job? Instead of "I'm girl, and all about feelings and how sensitive mine are" and "I'm a boy, and emotions so thoroughly confound me."
All of Dollhouse fell pretty far short of its potential, but I know things like "make the show revolve around this inherently uninteresting non-character" and the episode pacing weren't his call. So I don't know if I can blame him for the bureaucratic bad-ass turning into a convenient mommy lady (for the super special nerd-boy), and the show feeling like it never really got to the story it was made to tell.

The major point in Cabin in the Woods was
Spoiler:
the Control Facility seemed under developed. I can mostly accept typical bad-guy-lair stuff, like why they would even install an elevator that can bring nightmares into populated areas, with a conveniently located button, with no overides of any kind. But they lose me at the people who dedicate their (working) lives to managing and controlling all these monsters have absolutely nothing in the way of stopping, controlling, or defending themselves against them. What was even the point of having all those dudes in SWAT gear? Shouldn't they at least have a couple silver bullets and capsules of holy water on hand?
Taking a moment to make a nod towards how all those things even got into the plastic cubes would be nice. (I mean, did the Elder God's make them just for this occasion? Are they being collected over time and a sort of pest control?) As would a brief mention of why Japan's methods seem so completely different. Do they have a different set of carvings to fill with blood? It could make sense for there to be different portals to the dimension of Eldritch Terrors, with different sacrifice requirements.
*I was hoping for a reveal that
Spoiler:
The organization had been internally sabotaged. It seems like it might have been edited from the final cut. The wires involved in the cave-in looked a lot like they'd been cut or yanked out on purpose, and it would explain how easily Toker and ...not-Felicia-Day got into the base.

Re: Joss Whedon doing writer things again.

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:26 pm UTC
by ArgonV
cephalopod9 wrote:I was hoping for a reveal that
Spoiler:
The organization had been internally sabotaged. It seems like it might have been edited from the final cut. The wires involved in the cave-in looked a lot like they'd been cut or yanked out on purpose, and it would explain how easily Toker and ...not-Felicia-Day got into the base.


I know what you mean
Spoiler:
I also got that idea due to the weed not working on Marty and the suppression system for the creatures (I think they mentioned gas?) not working, but that turned out to be because of a creature ripping through wiring, apparently.

Re: Joss Whedon doing writer things again.

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 10:27 pm UTC
by pseudoidiot
Movie spoilers and responses.

cephalopod9 wrote:
Spoiler:
I just had to groan when he survives! just because he is so special! and just knows how hot-wire an elevator! because magic weed or something
Spoiler:
Well they'd already sort of established him as a tinkerer because of the extend-o-bong. So, a bit of a stretch, but not a huge one, that he might be able to figure out some wires in a maintenance panel (especially if the panel is at all labeled like any good engineer would do).


cephalopod9 wrote:
Spoiler:
like why they would even install an elevator that can bring nightmares into populated areas
Spoiler:
There's no evidence of the elevators being in populated areas. We only see quick glimpses of the other failed cities so there's not much to go on there. The only other sacrifices we see much of are the Japanese school girls and there's no indication of how controlled the environment outside that classroom was.

The only elevator we see for sure on screen goes up to the cabin, which is super isolated. And presumably the force field would keep any monsters from running loose.

Re: Joss Whedon doing writer things again.

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 11:55 pm UTC
by cephalopod9
pseudoidiot wrote:
cephalopod9 wrote:
Spoiler:
like why they would even install an elevator that can bring nightmares into populated areas
Spoiler:
There's no evidence of the elevators being in populated areas. We only see quick glimpses of the other failed cities so there's not much to go on there. The only other sacrifices we see much of are the Japanese school girls and there's no indication of how controlled the environment outside that classroom was.

The only elevator we see for sure on screen goes up to the cabin, which is super isolated. And presumably the force field would keep any monsters from running loose.

Spoiler:
All of the elevator-monster boxes open directly into an area that easily connects to every area scientists are in. That was the whole last half hour of the movie. (not populated like residential areas, populated as in the people who presumably designed the the thing are working right there).
Why would any nightmare cubes need to go to that hallway ever? Why do they even have a small army of riot police? That are armed with guns with bullets that only even annoy a small very number of the monster that the entire facility exists to deal with?

Re: Joss Whedon doing writer things again.

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 11:57 pm UTC
by pseudoidiot
Spoiler:
Oh! The ones inside! Gotcha. You said populated area and I'm thinking neighborhoods and shit


Also, I'm going to strive to start using "husband bulge" more often.

Re: Joss Whedon doing writer things again.

Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 8:27 am UTC
by Woopate
cephalopod9 wrote:
pseudoidiot wrote:
cephalopod9 wrote:
Spoiler:
like why they would even install an elevator that can bring nightmares into populated areas
Spoiler:
There's no evidence of the elevators being in populated areas. We only see quick glimpses of the other failed cities so there's not much to go on there. The only other sacrifices we see much of are the Japanese school girls and there's no indication of how controlled the environment outside that classroom was.

The only elevator we see for sure on screen goes up to the cabin, which is super isolated. And presumably the force field would keep any monsters from running loose.

Spoiler:
All of the elevator-monster boxes open directly into an area that easily connects to every area scientists are in. That was the whole last half hour of the movie. (not populated like residential areas, populated as in the people who presumably designed the the thing are working right there).
Why would any nightmare cubes need to go to that hallway ever? Why do they even have a small army of riot police? That are armed with guns with bullets that only even annoy a small very number of the monster that the entire facility exists to deal with?

Spoiler:
I assumed the elevators were there to put new monsters into circulation/access for the cleanup crews mentioned on-screen(if the elevator prison cells are easy to isolate why pay for a second elevator set?) plus a few of those monsters probably need to be fed. I'd also buy the SWAT guys coming with guns because when they were called, the target was a pair of humans, not EVERY MONSTER EVER. I'm making a bunch of stuff up here, but it's stuff I made up as soon as similar questions popped into my head at the theatre.

Re: Joss Whedon doing writer things again.

Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 9:55 pm UTC
by H.E.L.e.N.
That reminds me, I felt like there was so many not-fully-explored things that it'd be cool to see fleshed out in, say, comic form. As a number of Whedonprojects seem to be.

Spoiler:
They'd be pre-end-of-universe prequels, obvs.


Joey Comeau on is horror comedy still horror? Maybe a little spoilery, but argues against the "mentioning the premise will ruin it" premise.

Spoiler:
"This is a science fiction/fantasy movie about an office environment on a very stressful day."

Re: Joss Whedon doing writer things again.

Posted: Sun May 20, 2012 11:33 pm UTC
by PerryDigital
My favourite aspect of the whole movie

Spoiler:
is that it clearly emulated the movie making people and then had the monsters turned on themselves. The two fellas in charge were clearly supposed to be Joss and Drew (the writers) and it ended with a character even named 'The Director'

I believe the mirror scene was a metaphor for switching the role of the audience and the people making the movie. Or something like that. I'm getting confused already.

But I loved it. I'm not a horror fan but I've loved everything by Joss.