Firefly & Serenity (Use Spoilers!)

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Great show
177
29%
The greatest show
384
62%
Otter/Duck
58
9%
 
Total votes: 619

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Re: Firefly

Postby Moo » Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:55 pm UTC

DAMMIT. That is what I get for reading this thread not having watched Serenity yet.

Hmmm pagetopper without any of the actual content.

Please carry on.
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Re: Firefly

Postby RikaLovesDie » Thu Jul 31, 2008 7:04 pm UTC

I steered clear of this series for a long time because a) I really disliked Buffy, Angel, and just about everything else Whedon had done up to this point, and b) Western in space = Cowboy Beebop, which I didn't like, and in general I don't care for Westerns.

I had several friends suggest it, but I ignored them. Finally, my boyfriend got me to watch the pilot, which I enjoyed, and I constantly went off about how I would watch the rest of it, but I never did. I happened to stay home sick from work one day and fell upon SciFi doing an all day marathon. I found it just as the first episode was starting and got through most of the series before they stopped for the day... so I picked up my boyfriend's copy of the series and continued where I'd left off and spent literally the entire day watching Firefly.

Needless to say I fell in love with the series. I later watched Serenity by myself and was utterly disturbed by the movie (I don't do well with Sci-Fi/horror films) and couldn't sleep for about a week after, but I still loved it. :lol: I think my favorite character is Wash, but it's really hard to say because all of the characters are so great.

If anyone hasn't seen this show I would HIGHLY recommend it.
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Re: Firefly

Postby GhostWolfe » Fri Aug 01, 2008 4:30 am UTC

Spoiler:
One of the first things I said to a friend after watching Serenity was that I refuse to accept River as their new pilot. She's unstable, and quite frankly, she's just not Wash!

Spoiler:
While it is also true that they could explore Shepard's past without him, not having him around to do things that make you twig on to there being something "not quite right" takes away most of the ... what's the word I'm looking for here, starts with an "i"... there'll be no reason to explore it, unless his past has a direct and obvious effect on the present that he is no longer alive in.

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Re: Firefly

Postby Jesse » Fri Aug 01, 2008 7:56 am UTC

Spoiler:
I think it was mentioned before. There is a triad of comic books coming out end of August/September time dealing entirely with Shepherd Book. The comics so far have been set pre-Serenity. So there's no reason this one won't be either, allowing Book to be alive.

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Re: Firefly

Postby fuffybaby18 » Fri Aug 01, 2008 11:03 am UTC

ishikiri wrote:Shes also in the second or third Matrix film.


Yes, because Morpheus is her husband... that tasty piece of information completely blew me away! I'm just hoping that maybe, in some way, that'll get Laurence Fishburne into a Whedon project. How friggin awesome would that be?!


Spoiler:
I heard Joss say (somewhere, don't remember) that the comics would be dealing with Book's past and all the mysteries therein.

And River isn't unstable anymore... that we know of. Of course, there could always be even more Alliance secrets hidden away in there, and knowing Joss, there probably are.

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Re: Firefly

Postby Sir_Elderberry » Fri Aug 01, 2008 1:54 pm UTC

Spoiler:
If they're set pre-Serenity, Mal's conversation with Book in Serenity would make less sense.
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Re: Firefly

Postby Belial » Fri Aug 01, 2008 2:38 pm UTC

fuffybaby18 wrote:
Spoiler:
And River isn't unstable anymore... that we know of. Of course, there could always be even more Alliance secrets hidden away in there, and knowing Joss, there probably are.


Spoiler:
Not entirely true. She's....*less* unstable, because she doesn't have that big covered trauma kicking around in her brain.

Her amygdala is still stripped. There are still neurological things jacked up in her head.
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Re: Firefly

Postby Sir_Elderberry » Fri Aug 01, 2008 4:34 pm UTC

Spoiler:
And of course, she's still a psychic death machine, which must have interesting effects on your psyche.
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Re: Firefly

Postby Jesse » Fri Aug 01, 2008 5:27 pm UTC

Sir_Elderberry wrote:
Spoiler:
If they're set pre-Serenity, Mal's conversation with Book in Serenity would make less sense.


Just because the audience discovers something, that does not mean Mal has to discover it.

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Re: Firefly

Postby Pathway » Mon Aug 04, 2008 8:02 pm UTC

Spoiler:
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Re: Firefly

Postby Sir_Elderberry » Mon Aug 04, 2008 9:23 pm UTC

Pathway wrote:
Spoiler:

Spoiler:
That was "psychic death machine" as in "a death machine who is also psychic" not "a machine of psychic death."
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Re: Firefly

Postby DarthFeltTipPen » Tue Aug 05, 2008 3:15 am UTC

This has probably already been discussed but there's just so much spoilery goodness in this thread it's hard to see if points have been covered or not...forgive me if I'm re-treading ground already covered...

Spoiler:
I took from the conversation between Book and Mal that Book was a 'true believer' like the operative and that along the way he lost his belief...thus in the episode where book was injured and they flashed his ID card he got immediate assistance...as per the operative taking over the alliance ship at the end with a flash of his ID card...they're above the rank and file of the alliance...possibly it's a position for life...


I don't think they can continue the story, I think we saw the last three seasons of the show as scripted by Wheadon and Co. in Serenity, but heavily paraphrased and cut down to buggery...I think the plot suffered, I think the character development suffered and I think the ending was god awful, but that said I don't think I've seen Wheadon end anything that he's written well...he's strong at dialogue and character but he always falls down on plot

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Re: Firefly

Postby Jesse » Tue Aug 05, 2008 8:39 am UTC

I don't think I've ever seen Whedon end something.

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Re: Firefly

Postby fuffybaby18 » Tue Aug 05, 2008 12:57 pm UTC

That's exactly what I was thinking!
Whenever he "ends" something, it's because an external force is making it impossible for him to continue, so his "endings" always feel rushed and incompletely. The Man is, however, brilliant at cliff hangers, which I believe is a far more appropriate way to think of the finales of his works. Because they always seem to end up in comic book form....

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Re: Firefly

Postby Jesse » Tue Aug 05, 2008 1:20 pm UTC

That was also my thinking. Angel, Buffy, Serenity/Firefly al still exist in continuing comic books.

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Re: Firefly

Postby Pathway » Tue Aug 05, 2008 5:44 pm UTC

Sir_Elderberry wrote:
Pathway wrote:
Spoiler:

Spoiler:
That was "psychic death machine" as in "a death machine who is also psychic" not "a machine of psychic death."


Spoiler:
Oh, I know. Just... saying, is all.
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Re: Firefly

Postby hideki101 » Tue Aug 05, 2008 8:05 pm UTC

I have finished watching Firefly, and have just watched Serenity. I have been enlightened. and awed.
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Re: Firefly

Postby DarthFeltTipPen » Tue Aug 05, 2008 11:30 pm UTC

Jesse wrote:I don't think I've ever seen Whedon end something.


Well, I'm just looking at the films that he's written, he wrote Alien 4 which has a pretty god awful ending, he wrote Serenity which, in my humble opinion, could have been a fantastic 'end' that wrapped everything up but instead felt more like a paraphrased version of what Wheadon wanted to show in the TV show...

He's great at cliffhangers, I'll give you that, but he's not great at payoffs after those cliffhangers, I still remember the first awesome cliffhanger I saw back in ST:TNG's "Best of Both Worlds"...and the pay off for that one was awesome, then, same show, couple of seasons later, Descent, awsome first ep, awesome cliffhanger, no payoff. I think a successful cliffhanger really needs that payoff to make it awesome...Firefly was, in my opinion, the best written show that's been around since Bab5, he had a clear direction and a story to tell and was telling it with a Master's touch, the end of that show is so depressing and premature that it hurts to watch it...Serenity wasn't the end I was hoping for, it was an end, i suppose...

I realised this was a bit of a Wheadon bash post and I never intended it to end up like that...he wrote (or assisted in writing) Toy Story, which is still on my list of one of the best kids movies for adults ever. He can write, sometimes he writes masterpieces, problem I have with him is that he's not consistent enough...
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Re: Firefly

Postby Jesse » Wed Aug 06, 2008 8:27 am UTC

Ah see, I've never been the biggest fan of Joss in film land. I much prefer his tv and comics work.

Also, here's something where I think I differ from the majority. I hate everything being 'wrapped up'. I like a few things to be open, ecause I like discussing it and coming up with different possibilities. I love the fact we still don't know for sure who Book really was, I love the fact that there's room open after Serenity for more series about the Alliances downfall, even possibly a brand new Independence war.

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Re: Firefly

Postby GhostWolfe » Fri Aug 08, 2008 10:43 am UTC

My copy of Those Left Behind arrived today. It's an excellent bridging piece, and I can't wait for my three issues of Better Days to get here.

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Re: Firefly

Postby Sir_Elderberry » Fri Aug 08, 2008 12:21 pm UTC

GhostWolfe wrote:My copy of Those Left Behind arrived today. It's an excellent bridging piece, and I can't wait for my three issues of Better Days to get here.

/angell


Did anyone else read that as "Left Behind" and spend a few seconds confused?

Anyway, yeah, Those Left Behind was good. I need to try and read Better Days, I heard it has some Shepherd Book stuff in it. (Not to mention that apparently the next comics are about Book.)
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Re: Firefly

Postby Belial » Fri Aug 08, 2008 2:46 pm UTC

DarthFeltTipPen wrote:Serenity wasn't the end I was hoping for, it was an end, i suppose...


Well, keep in mind that, given his history of shows that go well into five or more seasons, and how much he loved Firefly, the show was probably intended to go for....at least 4 and a half more seasons, if he could. Which means we were still more or less in the *beginning*.

So really, this just means that he's bad at writing endings in the middle of his beginnings.
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Re: Firefly

Postby AngrySquirrel » Fri Aug 08, 2008 3:04 pm UTC

I like Firefly. It was the kind of show that just seemed to get better and better with every episode. Then it stopped and I was sad.
Then I found Serenity, and I was again in the happy fairyland of things that are wonderful and nice. And for the most part I enjoyed that movie, there is just one little thing that irks me about it.
Spoiler:
Shepherd Book. He just died!? Just like that? WTF!? Weren't we supposed to learn more about his backstory before he kicks it? What the hell!? I feel cheated :(
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Re: Firefly

Postby Some_Random_Guy » Sat Aug 09, 2008 1:53 pm UTC

Last month I watched every episode over the course of 3 days and last night I watched the movie. The series was awesome as was the film. In fact, the only thing that disappointed me about the movie was that...

Spoiler:
Hands of blue guys are nowhere to be found! Those two guys were freaky, homicidal, and mysterious. I loved them! Where were they?
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Re: Firefly

Postby Sir_Elderberry » Sat Aug 09, 2008 3:13 pm UTC

Some_Random_Guy wrote:Last month I watched every episode over the course of 3 days and last night I watched the movie. The series was awesome as was the film. In fact, the only thing that disappointed me about the movie was that...

Spoiler:
Hands of blue guys are nowhere to be found! Those two guys were freaky, homicidal, and mysterious. I loved them! Where were they?


Spoilers for Those Left Behind

Spoiler:
They got killed. In fact, they got incinerated by Serenity's engines, iirc. That's why the Operative is on their case now, the "private contractors" failed.
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Re: Firefly

Postby fuffybaby18 » Mon Aug 11, 2008 7:28 am UTC

Jesse wrote:Ah see, I've never been the biggest fan of Joss in film land. I much prefer his tv and comics work.

Also, here's something where I think I differ from the majority. I hate everything being 'wrapped up'. I like a few things to be open, ecause I like discussing it and coming up with different possibilities. I love the fact we still don't know for sure who Book really was, I love the fact that there's room open after Serenity for more series about the Alliances downfall, even possibly a brand new Independence war.


I definitely agree with you, on both counts. Joss' visions are a bit to far reaching for a movie to do them justice, and it was tragic that he was forced to continue Firefly on that medium.

And it seems that Joss is of similar mind on the whole open ended "endings" things, which is one of the reasons I love him so much. Having the entire story nicely laid out for you is for people with no imagination! Speculation is a wonderful thing :)

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Re: Firefly

Postby DarthFeltTipPen » Mon Aug 11, 2008 10:37 pm UTC

Belial wrote:So really, this just means that he's bad at writing endings in the middle of his beginnings.


I think I just went cross-eyed...

I agree with you, I just kinda hoped that rather than paraphrasing he'd put some effort into creating a satisfying end to something that a whole pile of people loved...including himself...
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Re: Firefly

Postby Belial » Tue Aug 12, 2008 3:37 am UTC

Oh, I think he *did* put effort into it. But writing a satisfying ending at the *end* of your story is difficult. Writing one in the beginning of your story is vastly more difficult. Nigh unto impossible.
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Re: Firefly

Postby Gojoe » Tue Aug 12, 2008 12:14 pm UTC

I bought it again... this is I think the fourth time... This time i am backing it up! Also it was really hard to find... I eventually found it at the cd/dvd store, but it was on hold and clearance (its all good it was on hold for a staff member and apparently the cust is more important. YAY)
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Re: Firefly

Postby DarthFeltTipPen » Wed Aug 13, 2008 8:44 am UTC

Belial wrote:But writing a satisfying ending at the *end* of your story is difficult.


Hmm...I don't think I necessarily agree with you here...well...not from my experience, I try (although I have failed in the past I'll admit) to get a start, mddle and end before I start writing...I only write short screenplays though so it's not really the same...but I come from a school of thought that says that a satisfying ending should be one of the first things you think of when you come to write...I know with a script I wrote a couple of years ago, I was lost with the start and middle until I figured out how it was going to end, then the rest really came together...

Belial wrote:Writing one in the beginning of your story is vastly more difficult. Nigh unto impossible.


This I agree with 100%, the problem, I think, is he stuck to his old story, I think he could have gone away and created a whole new story, something removed from the series yet still utilising the same troupes and characters, I think I would have been more satisfied with a "Serenity's Last Ride" story, rather than the quickie sum up "Turns out it was Man" ending we got...I'm probably just being pedantic though...
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Re: Firefly

Postby seladore » Tue Aug 19, 2008 2:19 pm UTC

Just watching this for the first time.

"Also, I can kill you with my brain."

Best thing ever.

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Re: Firefly

Postby GhostWolfe » Wed Aug 20, 2008 4:06 am UTC

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Best quote ever.

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Re: Firefly

Postby Jesse » Wed Aug 20, 2008 7:04 pm UTC

Darth, I come from the school of writing that tells me writing out an ending before you've begun is a horrible way to do things, because it leaves no room for your characters and story to evolve beyond your original plan as you write. Sure, have an idea where you'd like to end up, but planning out an ending seems too mechanical for the way I was taught.

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Re: Firefly

Postby Mr. Beck » Sat Aug 23, 2008 5:39 am UTC

Wow, I actually can't believe that this is my first time posting here.
Ever since I discovered The Internet, I have been hearing about this show called Firefly. I hear glowing praise, dedicated fandom, and a hatred for the Fox Network. Above all I see diverse, well-rounded groups of people claiming that Firefly is quite frankly the best series of all time. What the hell, it's free on Hulu- sometime around April, I give it a fair shot.

I come, I see, I fall in love.
Everything about Firefly is perfect- and when it isn't, then that's okay too. I finally find drama with near zero Narm, comedy without self-consciousness. Every episode becomes my favorite, every quote is absorbed. I Grok Firefly. You folks might have noticed my frequent bubblings in my sig. And then- it's all over too damn fast. At least I have the tapes; I watch as many times as I please.

Just within the last few weeks I have recruited a new Browncoat- my brother. We just finished watching the Big Damn Movie a few minutes ago.
He mentioned that he is quietly pissed at Fox now. I told him that it's a common side-effect.
=========

My favorite character is without a doubt Kaylee. I mean...Well, you know. Personally I like the idea of Shepherd Book being an ex-Operative. Seems to be the only idea raised so far that fits all the available facts.
..........I was just about to start listing all of my favorite awesome moments, but realized I might as well be ctrl-v'ing half the script. It really is that awesome in my eyes.

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Re: Firefly

Postby ishikiri » Sat Aug 23, 2008 7:22 pm UTC

I love the change to the avatar :D
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Re: Firefly

Postby Mr. Beck » Sat Aug 23, 2008 10:00 pm UTC

Thanks! :D

On a more serious note, what do you guys think about the various depiction of prostitution depicted in the show? Joss obviously wanted to legitimize things, but how do you feel about Companions, Whores, and especially Inara.

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Re: Firefly

Postby ishikiri » Sun Aug 24, 2008 1:49 am UTC

I suppose you could say how far away from your average gold-digger is Inara?

Of course Joss's depiction is nothing even close to what actual prostitution is like.

For that you need to watch Eastern Promises or read Marvel Max: the Punisher trade #5.
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Re: Firefly

Postby CivilDefense700 » Wed Aug 27, 2008 5:07 pm UTC

I am sad.

I just finished watching the last episode and my soul is slowly dying without more. :(

Does anyone know if a full length version of the theme song was made? All I've been able to find is the intro.
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Re: Firefly

Postby JayDee » Thu Aug 28, 2008 3:19 am UTC

What do you mean by full length? The song was written to be the theme song, pretty sure there isn't any more beyond what they play at the start of the show.
Last edited by JayDee on Thu Aug 28, 2008 1:07 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Izawwlgood
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Re: Firefly

Postby Izawwlgood » Thu Aug 28, 2008 12:55 pm UTC

Mr. Beck wrote:On a more serious note, what do you guys think about the various depiction of prostitution depicted in the show? Joss obviously wanted to legitimize things, but how do you feel about Companions, Whores, and especially Inara.


Hate the sin, not the sinner. (I don't think it's a sin... but that seems to be Mals attitude, which is... biased...)

I think we're supposed to recognize her trade as her choice, respecting her right to choose to do what she pleases, as well how good she probably is as what she does. Inara at no point in the series is 'damsel in distress' or really anything but a brilliant, cunning, empathic woman, and perhaps we are to take her trade, like others on the ship, as simply something she does to allow herself freedom and independence.

Independence being a big theme in the show/movie, and so long as she doesn't dislike what she does (I get the feeling she enjoys it very much), all the power to her!

Spoiler:
Even that final episode, Heart of Gold, we see a group of smart, independent women.


Prostitution to me should be a female controlled enterprise, and should be legal. In it's purest form (i.e., not what exists today mostly...) it's a largely male-exploitative endeavor (perhaps why it is so effective, sex makes us males dumbified).

CivilDefense700 wrote:Does anyone know if a full length version of the theme song was made? All I've been able to find is the intro.


You can find on youtube, Joss singing the song as he envisioned (erm, en-heardened?) it. He's not great, but not half bad.
... with gigantic melancholies and gigantic mirth, to tread the jeweled thrones of the Earth under his sandalled feet.


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