Airbender and Korra - Shyamalan's Masterpiece Animated

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Re: Avatar: The Last Airbender

Postby Izawwlgood » Fri Jul 18, 2008 8:08 pm UTC

Where are you all finding these episodes?!?!
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Re: Avatar: The Last Airbender

Postby une see » Fri Jul 18, 2008 8:10 pm UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:Where are you all finding these episodes?!?!


Well, they're showing them on Nick every night at 8 this week. At least if you're in the US.
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Re: Avatar: The Last Airbender

Postby Kizor » Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:13 pm UTC

Spoiler:
Katara's use of bloodbending - which was nicely preceded by a conspicuous yet innocent shot of the full moon earlier in the episode - was quite in character for someone who was murderous at the time. Girl be whack.

I like Katara as a character because she's (often) an upbeat optimist who knows things in her heart, listens to her heart, is led by her heart, and in some continuities I could name would not be many steps away from gathering birds and small woodland creatures by her presence. Kids' series are fond of having such a character save the day with the power of love, dark and brooding series are fond of beating up the optimist, but Katara's emotion driven-approach is presented as a generally positive thing with a genuine negative side. She's the biggest loose cannon on the team, prone to fanaticism and self-righteous. She has not come out on top from getting some of her naivete beaten out on her, and the tension between what she can accomplish and what she might commit makes for good television.

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Re: Avatar: The Last Airbender

Postby Okita » Sat Jul 19, 2008 12:31 am UTC

That filler episode really hurt to watch.
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Re: Avatar: The Last Airbender

Postby Izawwlgood » Sat Jul 19, 2008 12:38 am UTC

anime-media has a truncated version of 316, and no 317. Anyone got an internet spot where I can watch the new episodes?
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Re: Avatar: The Last Airbender

Postby Aleril » Sat Jul 19, 2008 1:50 am UTC

Spoiler:
Wait! I found it!

Zuko does say killed at 10:01.
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Re: Avatar: The Last Airbender

Postby cephalopod9 » Sat Jul 19, 2008 4:11 am UTC

Spoiler:
Best recap episode ever.
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Re: Avatar: The Last Airbender

Postby Aleril » Sat Jul 19, 2008 5:02 am UTC

cephalopod9 wrote:
Spoiler:
Best recap episode ever.


Spoiler:
Agreed. I loved how everyone was "portrayed" so very well.
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Re: Avatar: The Last Airbender

Postby Joeldi » Sat Jul 19, 2008 8:01 am UTC

317
Spoiler:
Some parts of that were pretty hilarious, and other bits were just painfully uninteresting. I thought parts focusing on Sokka, and the bit with Toph and Zuko were great, everything else, where they covered ground from almost every episode was pretty lame and stupid.
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Re: Avatar: The Last Airbender

Postby Izawwlgood » Sat Jul 19, 2008 7:08 pm UTC

I can't believe they pulled that shit!

Spoiler:
This late into the story, they take a recap episode that ACTUALLY points out two important plot points, and they ignore them almost entirely?!

Aang is told his love will have to wait; we're led to believe that Katara has it in for Zuko, and the group SEES THE FIRE LORD WIN?! Oh your right... no reason to discuss or expound upon ANY of these points.


Very bad form for the what, fourth to last episode?
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Re: Avatar: The Last Airbender

Postby Okita » Sun Jul 20, 2008 2:00 am UTC

Spoiler:
A million zutara fans just cried out....and were silent

Also, LEGION OF OLD GUYS YES!
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Re: Avatar: The Last Airbender

Postby Disco_Inferno » Sun Jul 20, 2008 2:03 am UTC

Okita wrote:
Spoiler:
A million zutara fans just cried out....and were silent


Spoiler:
Woo! Zutara only lives on in bad fanfiction!

Anyways, I'm bummed that the finale ends on a semi-cliffhanger. Where is Zuko's mommie?
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Re: Avatar: The Last Airbender

Postby kcr » Sun Jul 20, 2008 2:04 am UTC

SO GOOD.
So damn good.

Spoiler:
I'm sort of annoyed they had Zuko go all "WHERE IS MY MOTHER, BITCH?!" and didn't resolve that at all. However, my brother did point out the potential there for a follow-up..

Taking away bending power - damn. Wouldn't have guessed that at all.

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Re: Avatar: The Last Airbender

Postby Okita » Sun Jul 20, 2008 2:11 am UTC

Spoiler:
I like how almost everyone gets at least a tiny bit of screen time.

EVEN BOOMERANG!

BOOMERANG! You really do always come back!
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Re: Avatar: The Last Airbender

Postby Gobo » Sun Jul 20, 2008 2:30 am UTC

Was anyone else confused by the lack of details on
Spoiler:
how Aang unblocked his seventh chakra?

I wish I had Tivo, because I missed that.

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Re: Avatar: The Last Airbender

Postby kcr » Sun Jul 20, 2008 3:00 am UTC

Gobo wrote:Was anyone else confused by the lack of details on
Spoiler:
how Aang unblocked his seventh chakra?

I wish I had Tivo, because I missed that.

Spoiler:
I think it was that when Ozai was attacking him, he backed up against a rock that protruded right into the wound/scar/whatever it is on his back. Other than that, I'm as clueless as you are.

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Re: Avatar: The Last Airbender

Postby Disco_Inferno » Sun Jul 20, 2008 3:05 am UTC

kcr wrote:
Gobo wrote:Was anyone else confused by the lack of details on
Spoiler:
how Aang unblocked his seventh chakra?

I wish I had Tivo, because I missed that.

Spoiler:
I think it was that when Ozai was attacking him, he backed up against a rock that protruded right into the wound/scar/whatever it is on his back. Other than that, I'm as clueless as you are.


Spoiler:
Yeah, that's my theory too.
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Re: Avatar: The Last Airbender

Postby Okita » Sun Jul 20, 2008 3:09 am UTC

Spoiler:
Nothing like getting a pointy rock in your body's reset button.

Also, I just realized... there was no Cabbage Vendor guy.

MY CABBAGES!
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Re: Avatar: The Last Airbender

Postby Gobo » Sun Jul 20, 2008 3:17 am UTC

That was what I saw, but there has to be more to it than that since
Spoiler:
Aang was lying about the lightning wound being what blocked his chakra. He was actually blocked because he had refused to give up his attachment to Katara. According to the Guru and the Air monks that trained him, as long as he maintained attachments to the material world his spirit couldn't be free.

however, now that I think about it...
Spoiler:
the lion-turtle did tell him that he could never achieve enlightenment no matter what he did. Roku clearly had personal and material attachments. Perhaps Aang was able to shrug off all of his Air Nomad programming and do the opposite and completely attach to the world.

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Re: Avatar: The Last Airbender

Postby cephalopod9 » Sun Jul 20, 2008 6:14 am UTC

:sheds a tear for the ended series:

Spoiler:
THAT WAS SO COOL!
Crazy Azula was scary!
Awesome soundtrack!

I think the lightning was a part of Aang's blocked chakra, but I think it was mostly issues he worked out talking with lion turtle. He also had that moment with Katara in the last episode...
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Re: Avatar: The Last Airbender

Postby Gadren » Sun Jul 20, 2008 6:27 am UTC

Spoiler:
Friggin' sweet. There were all sorts of things I enjoyed, but here are a few that stood out:
- The conversations between the Fire Nation blimp soldiers.
- Azula's insanity. Right after having seen The Dark Knight, I was in the mood for some insanity.
- The fight between Zuko and Azula -- it was nice that they eschewed the one-liners (which had all pretty much been said in earlier episodes) for a very dramatic and artful piece of background music.
- Toph's "Iron Man" suit, and when she was knocking on the blimp cockpit's door. It was "Shave and a Haircut," with the door smashing down on the last beat.

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Re: Avatar: The Last Airbender

Postby Izawwlgood » Sun Jul 20, 2008 6:34 am UTC

GODDAMN!!!!

Spoiler:
"Many great and wise air nomads have detached themselves and achieved spiritual enlightenment, but the avatar can never do it, because your sole duty is to the world: Here is my wisdom for you, Selfless duty calls you to sacrifice your own spiritual needs and do whatever it takes to protect the world


HE"S 12 years old!!!! Incredible. I love this show.

EDIT: Iroh is still my hero.

EDITEDIT: TOPH.... IS....
Spoiler:
IRONMAN!!!


EDITEDITEDIT: pant...pant...pant...
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Re: Avatar: The Last Airbender

Postby Aleril » Sun Jul 20, 2008 6:57 am UTC

Spoiler:
Hey! He remembered my birthday!
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Re: Avatar: The Last Airbender

Postby Megatriorchis » Sun Jul 20, 2008 8:14 am UTC

Aw, man! I missed the movie tonight. This really kind of sucks. I hope they show it again tomorrow or sometime next week.
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Re: Avatar: The Last Airbender

Postby Belial » Sun Jul 20, 2008 4:36 pm UTC

Spoiler:
Yeah, I really loved how much Azula just came unhinged without Ty Lee and Mai around.

And the background music for her fight with Zuko just drove home how...sad that fight was.
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Re: Avatar: The Last Airbender

Postby Izawwlgood » Sun Jul 20, 2008 5:47 pm UTC

I love how the majority of this series has been kids fixing the problems adults have caused. It's a great message for watchers.

Spoiler:
Will Aang found an airbending school, or start up a monastery of his own? Will Zuko find his mother? Will the nations live together in peace? I'm glad the series ended on such an excellent note, and I'm only doing this because I love the created world, but I want more... :(


Spoiler:
Also, anyone read the Magic: The Gathering books? Did the end remind you of The Final Sacrifice?
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Re: Avatar: The Last Airbender

Postby Kesho » Mon Jul 21, 2008 1:51 am UTC

Oh wow. I just saw the finale about twenty minutes ago. Amazing. I'm going to miss Avatar so much though. :(

Spoiler:
One question that's been on my mind since season 2 was whether the way the writers deliberately shied away from violence was a good thing or not. The way that Aang defeated the Firelord pretty much kicked that doubt in the face; I just couldn't imagine the series ending with the Firelord/Phoenix King's death. I certainly think stripping someone of their power is definitely more satisfying than just killing him with a rock. This is probably the first time I've ever seen a show where I didn't want the hero to do the easy, logical thing (i.e. killing the antagonist and making sure that they're dead.)

The one thing that disappointed me was that they alluded to Zuko's mother still being alive somewhere, which while interesting, leaving us hanging. It just doesn't seem to allow for continuation, but leaves one unsolvable mystery.


But overall, I'd like to congratulate Avatar on being such a well-written, captivating, and just wholly incredible show.

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Re: Avatar: The Last Airbender

Postby Joeldi » Mon Jul 21, 2008 1:53 am UTC

These four episodes were almost universally fuck win. The only part that irked me

Spoiler:
Was the all knowing, all powerful, pseudo deus ex machina lion-turtle. He comes out of no- where, is the catalyst for Aang's victory, and can TALK


Now, loose ends, anyone?
Spoiler:
Guru Pahtik, Ursa, Azula's ultimate fate, What happens to Airbending now? ( :'( Why oh why wasn't the white lotus society mainly made up of Air Nomads existing in secret, nomad's that were no-where near the temples when Sozin destroyed them, being nomadic after all)
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Re: Avatar: The Last Airbender

Postby superglucose » Mon Jul 21, 2008 2:42 am UTC

Okita wrote:That filler episode really hurt to watch.


Spoiler:
Oh god it did. Southern Raiders was, imo, AMAZING and awesome, especially the way Katara stops the frackin RAIN. But then it was followed by Ember Island and I cringed... it hurt so bad... such a shitty episode. That was, by far, the worst episode of Avatar ever.



Spoiler:
On a different note, every single bit of bending in Sozin's comet was absolutely epic and fantastic and amazing in every way. I loved the way Aang in the Avatar state just grabbed Ozai's goatee, blocked the random attack, and then basically shoved that 'phoenix king' across the goddamn map. Then watching him proceed to own the shit out of Ozai until he lets Ozai out easy, giving Ozai the chance to redeem. And as if just to make sure there were NO QUESTIONS as to who would win in a straight up fight, Aang toasts the bastard while out of the avatar state. Toph takes metal bending to the next level, Sokka shows how much he cares about Toph, May and Zhuko, Ty Lee joining the Kyoshi Warriors, the order of the white lotus retaking Ba Sing Se... the only bit I didn't like was the lack of watching Iroh be the best firebender on earth.

It was so totally awesome to watch Aang redirect lightning, and especially watching Bumi retake Omashu. I just love the line, "An eclipse! That'll do."
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Re: Avatar: The Last Airbender

Postby Belial » Mon Jul 21, 2008 2:31 pm UTC

So. Umm. Here's hoping that this only means that *Aang's* story is over, and they do another series in the world.

Maybe, if we're truly fortunate, on another network so they don't have to keep doing workarounds to portray death without portraying death

Spoiler:
(Jet, Combustion Man, Aang-the-fish-god bloody well eating the entire fire fleet....)
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Re: Avatar: The Last Airbender

Postby Joeldi » Mon Jul 21, 2008 10:20 pm UTC

Belial wrote:So. Umm. Here's hoping that this only means that *Aang's* story is over, and they do another series in the world.

Maybe, if we're truly fortunate, on another network so they don't have to keep doing workarounds to portray death without portraying death


I'm partly confident that some sort of mini-series starring Ursa is around the corner. I also hope it asks more questions than it answers, because a short mini-series that ties up loose ends would kind of feel like an epilogue more than a continuation, and wreck the franchise somehow - at least in my sensibilities.

If it is about Ursa, it could probably have a lot of Lu-Ten-mourning Iroh, which has potential to be darker than the whole series straight off.
Last edited by Joeldi on Tue Jul 22, 2008 4:09 am UTC, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Avatar: The Last Airbender

Postby Geekthras » Mon Jul 21, 2008 11:58 pm UTC

Utter win
Spoiler:
I loved the last agni kai and the way it was just BLAM BAM RED-AND-BLUE FIRE EVERYWHERE. Also, that scene with boomerang and space sword on the blimp was friggen awesome. Ember Island was fail, and WHAT ABOUT URSA GNNRRRRRR
Wait. With a SPOON?!

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Re: Avatar: The Last Airbender

Postby cephalopod9 » Tue Jul 22, 2008 3:30 am UTC

Joeldi wrote:
Belial wrote:So. Umm. Here's hoping that this only means that *Aang's* story is over, and they do another series in the world.

Maybe, if we're truly fortunate, on another network so they don't have to keep doing workarounds to portray death without portraying death


I'm partly confident that some sort of mini-series starring Ursa is around the corner. I also hope it asks more questions than it answers, because a short mini-series that ties up loose ends would kind of feel like an epilogue more than a continuation, and wreck the franchise somehow - at least in my sensibilities.

If it is about Ursa, it could probably have a lot of Lu-ten mourning Iroh, which has potential to be darker than the whole series straight off.

It would be pretty cool to seem them work on something more adult. I've been thinking ir might be aweome if they moved on to something in the way of Lost or Heros. I want to see more Toph, and Zuko, everyone else seems ready to retire...

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Spoiler:
Hey! He remembered my birthday!
I was trying to think of what that reminded me of
Spoiler:
Venture Bros. durr
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Re: Avatar: The Last Airbender

Postby Jack.H » Tue Jul 22, 2008 7:19 am UTC

I really, really liked how the series developed all the characters. A lesser series would have just developed a core group and been done with it. But the writers here really showed some skill when you felt a bond with almost every character in the story. This is probably one of the few series in which I can't pick out my favorite character. Although if I were forced, I'd say Sokka.(*walking backwards out of the earth-bending training place* "... Water Tribe!")

Spoiler:
I agree with some other complaints that the Lion-turtle's deus ex machina status in the story was kind of shady. I get that they were trying to hammer home that some answers were older than even the line of Avatars, but the randomness still left me a bit unsettled.
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Re: Avatar: The Last Airbender

Postby Isaac Hill » Tue Jul 22, 2008 11:01 pm UTC

I've got one unanswered question, which I've had since Book 1. How does beating up the Fire Lord end the war? If your fastest means of communication is messenger hawk, then the battalions have to be able to manage on their own, without much direct leadership from the Fire Lord. They could take whatever supplies they needed from the people they're occupying. They'd be independent warlords instead of Fire Nation operatives, but the oppressed people probably wouldn't notice much difference.

That thing that's bugged everybody:
Spoiler:
The thing that bugged me about the dues ex turtle was that the basic idea, Aang taking away someone's bending, makes sense given the established rules of the Avatar world. When the Moon Spirit was captured at the North Pole, the Water Benders lost their power, establishing that a connection to a spirit is needed for bending. The Avatar is mentioned as the bridge between the spirit and material worlds, so it would follow that the Avatar could sever that connection for an individual. The turtle's speech about pre-avatar inner energy bending was unneccessary.


I liked how some of the resolutions of the plot lines/character arcs mirrored their begninnings, like...
Spoiler:
...the early Avatar and Fire Lord going from friends to enemies when the war began, then going from enemies to friends when the war ended.

...Azula's sloppy lightning throwing during her Agni Kai w/Zuko, compared to her training when one hair out of place wasn't good enough, showing how far she's fallen.

...Ty Lee crying one the Beach about being surrounded by people who look just like her, then joining the Kyoshi Warriors.
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Re: Avatar: The Last Airbender

Postby Sockmonkey » Fri Jul 25, 2008 4:32 am UTC

Seriously, this show just makes me go "sqeeeee!" with happiness.

Spoiler:
I had a small fear at first that the fight with the firelord would end in a cop-out with Ozai screwing up and getting crushed by a bouler he blasted loose himself or any one of those overused scenarios writers use to give the hero victory without "dirtying" himself. Then I thought Aang would force himself to kill which really would have diminished himself as a character and the story as a whole. The removal of the firelord's bending was something I totally didn't see coming. It was just... wow.
I did find the random rock poking him in the back and opening the chakra a little cheesy. Yet it doesn't really bug me, and I'm a hard-core nitpicker.

Iron-man Toph, also wow.

Was I the only one saddened by Sokka losing his faithful boomerang forever? The sword was a significant symbol for his growth but having it sacrificed in war seemed a noble end for it. The boomerang though... His little buddy was with him every step of the way through thick and thin.

The way Suki was nervously sneaking over to Sokka's tent was soooo obviously for one thing (and pretty adorable) yet they were able to imply it without implying anything dirty! How the heck did they do that?

Azula going out of her pretty little mind was very well done. Once she was freed from having to reign in her megalomaina it ate her alive. Near the end I thought Katara would be forced to use blood bending on her, but I much prefer the way it did end.

The lion-turtle bit did feel a tad contrived, but Aang was meditating and reaching out for spiritual guidance so it's not like the encounter fell into his lap at random.

Zuko's mom is alive? WTF? Didn't they specifically say she was dead?
Someone please splain' dat to me.

I think the fact that the airships which were the spearhed of the fire nation conquest were destroyed coupled with the revolution in the earth kingdom would have been enough to make the fire nation troops pause to regroup long enough for word of Zuko assuming the throne and calling off the war to reach them.

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Re: Avatar: The Last Airbender

Postby Belial » Fri Jul 25, 2008 5:41 am UTC

Spoiler:
Zuko's mom is alive? WTF? Didn't they specifically say she was dead?
Someone please splain' dat to me.


Go back and watch the day of black sun episodes again. Pay special attention to the scenes with zuko and his father.
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Re: Avatar: The Last Airbender

Postby Sockmonkey » Fri Jul 25, 2008 6:26 am UTC

Belial wrote:
Spoiler:
Zuko's mom is alive? WTF? Didn't they specifically say she was dead?
Someone please splain' dat to me.


Go back and watch the day of black sun episodes again. Pay special attention to the scenes with zuko and his father.


Oh, I thought he was just screwing with him.

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Re: Avatar: The Last Airbender

Postby The Great Hippo » Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:23 pm UTC

Okay, saw the last few episodes. A few thoughts:

Spoiler:
During the plot recap episode--why did they open up a new plot-thread (strain between Aang and Katara's relationship) that requires no effort to resolve and added nothing to their interaction beyond relief when it was clear it would be a non-issue? That annoyed me. It was unnecessary, and a little sloppy. Look at Zuko and Toph's little interlude to see a better example of character development that does add something meaningful to the eventual resolution--instead of adding tension, it relieves it ("yeah, your uncle's cool, he'll forgive you").

The final four episodes were actually a let down, especially considering just how much I've enjoyed the series and its choices up until this point. We've built up a tremendous amount of momentum to the final scenes with the Fire Lord--and then it turns out he's just your standard dick. This is a real shame--compare the Fire Lord's final scenes with Azula's final scenes, where we see a lot more complexity and character interaction. In the end, you'd be forgiven for even feeling sorry for Azula; but the Fire Lord's pretty much as flat as a board. I would have really preferred to see something unique done with the Fire Lord's motivations beyond "HARR I AM AWESOME TIME TO BURN THE WORLD NOW PHOENIX KING 4EVA".

The entire retaking of Ba Singh Sei (sp?)--finally, we get to see the secret society in action--plus, actually laughed outloud at Boomi's quip ("ALL old people know each other! Didn't you know that?"). But... Seriously, this entire battle was a let down. The entire scene felt like they were tacked on; it carried none of the gravitas of Azula or the Fire Lord's scenes. It felt like we were just in the business of mopping up minor details and characters. All the bad-asses from the secret order got one or two brief shots of bad-assery (we got to see Sokka's trainer in action for approximately... 2.15 seconds, then never again), and it was clear from the get go that they'd win anyway. There was very little dramatic tension and no question as to who was going to win. I would have much preferred to see this entire series of events as a stand-alone episode, invested with far more tension and played up as the one last chance to get a foothold against the increasingly powerful Fire Nation (before the arrival of the comet). As it plays now, it's pretty much incidental and exists only to grant Iroh relevance.

I've got other issues--I agree the turtle was just one big ex deus machina, and though I like the Fire Lord losing his bending, I kind of grimaced at the idea that it was all brought about because a rock hit Aang in just the right place (I thought he failed to fully detach himself from Katara; if they're going to let him control his avatar state without detaching himself from the world, that's fine, but they should have given some foreshadowing that there was another path beyond absolute detachment--better than what foreshadowing was given, anyway), and there were a number of muddled messages and themes. All in all, the thing felt as if it was very much rushed--they had to jam a whole lot into a short series of episodes, and it could have benefited a lot more from one or two more complete episodes that would give it room to stretch itself out.

All that being said, though, despite the fact that the last few episodes were a bit of a disappointment, they were a disappointment only in comparison to what came before; taken on their own, they were excellent and contained several fantastic moments. Azula's unhinging, the idea of the lion turtle (even if I kind of grimace at the ex deus machina of it), Aang's handling of the Fire Lord, Toph's iron man suit, pretty much every scene with Zuko or Sokka in it, so on, so on.

It was a great series and though I think they could have done a much more thorough job with the finale, it still got the job done. So, yeah. Here's hoping they continue Zuko's story, either on TV or in a different medium (novels? comics? video-games?).

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Re: Avatar: The Last Airbender

Postby Izawwlgood » Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:42 pm UTC

Hmm. I don't really disagree with you at all Hippo. Just some responses though, my own take on the matters:

Spoiler:
My understanding about Aang getting twinged in the back to unlock the avatar state was something akin to busting up scar-tissue. It hit a reset on his block. His attachment to Katara had nothing to do with his inability to enter the avatar state, remember, he was taught how to clear his chakra's by an enlightened swami guy, not an avatar. This is why that speech by the various avatars was so mind meltingly intense; Aang, a 12 year old boy, is being told that he can never achieve the enlightenment he was raised to seek.

But good point about the dues ex everything that happened in this series, I felt they often pulled stunts like this. I didn't really object, given that it is, at it's core, a kids show, but yes, some things were just tossed in. "Oh noes, what will I do... Whats this... SPIRIT BENDING... fix'd!"

Also, Boomi saying "Someone from your group is missing, someone important... Wheres Momo?" Haha, that Momo. He's so cool.
... with gigantic melancholies and gigantic mirth, to tread the jeweled thrones of the Earth under his sandalled feet.


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