Unpopular Musical Opinions

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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby TaintedDeity » Thu Oct 07, 2010 11:13 pm UTC

I disagree. I love this song.
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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby Midnight » Fri Oct 08, 2010 12:11 am UTC

Thurid wrote:Not too unpopular but...

Good Lyrics Don't Make A Good Song

They can cripple an otherwise good song, but it depends--if it's dancy then you don't need much in the way of lyrics. Same with some metal songs (cannibal corpse, I'm lookin' at you)
uhhhh fuck.

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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby Jar'O'Jam » Fri Oct 08, 2010 3:04 pm UTC

Thurid wrote:3. Auto tune ruins every songs its used in

Not if it's used for comedic effect. While we were recording one of our songs, our discussion somehow strayed to auto-tune and how some of the folks who were recording in this studio were asking for it, so as a joke we've decided to do a second mix, but with auto-tune on vocals. Hilarious results :)
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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby Various Varieties » Sun Oct 10, 2010 10:34 pm UTC

achan1058 wrote:I guess I should put some opinions down:
Four chords does not a good song make.

Four chords alone don't make a good song - but even though musicologists might spend most of their time analysing songs in terms of I-iv-V Roman numerals representing chords, I find that lyrics, melody and arrangement are far more important to a song's interest and appeal than how wide-ranging and unconventional the harmonic movement. When I first started learning the guitar (note: I haven't improved much), I was astonished to learn how few chords some of my favourite songs used - it didn't dent my appreciation of them one bit. I think I'm right in saying that (other than maybe the occasional passing chord) all of these use four chords or fewer, and I think all of them are great songs:

Love Will Tear Us Apart / Common People / I Fought the Law / Get Back / Tender / (I Can't Get No) Satisfaction.
And also Bike, as an example of a song which makes up for a basic chord progression by having a wacky rhythm and arrangement.

(Wasn't until after I'd linked to them that I realised I'd all those examples are by British musicians (unless you count the fact the Clash one's a cover). :shock: Sorry bluesmen!)

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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby Midnight » Mon Oct 11, 2010 3:09 am UTC

achan1058 wrote:Four chords does not a good song make.

Yeah, the blues is a three-chord progression, after all.
uhhhh fuck.

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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby TheAmazingRando » Mon Oct 11, 2010 8:04 am UTC

The quality of a song is has absolutely no relationship with how complicated or unusual the chord progression is.

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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby theGoldenCalf; » Mon Oct 11, 2010 8:30 am UTC

Midnight wrote:
achan1058 wrote:Four chords does not a good song make.

Yeah, the blues is a three-chord progression, after all.


I also came across some wonderful pieces of music that had no chords at all
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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby Jesse » Tue Oct 12, 2010 9:10 am UTC


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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby SecondTalon » Tue Oct 12, 2010 11:34 am UTC

If you can tell auto tune was used in a professional song, they did it wrong. Or it's intentional.

Which means the owe a debt to Cher. Which is just funny.
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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby Lime » Mon Oct 18, 2010 12:25 am UTC

I fucking love Lady Gaga and Kesha.

And this is coming from somebody who likes music so indie that you ACTUALLY haven't heard of it.

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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby SecondTalon » Mon Oct 18, 2010 4:01 am UTC

Lime wrote:I fucking love Lady Gaga and Kesha.

And this is coming from somebody who likes music so indie that you ACTUALLY haven't heard of it.
Like Chocolate Love and the Shawshank Redemption? Or Telemundo Es Bueno?
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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby Jesse » Mon Oct 18, 2010 1:27 pm UTC

Or perhaps The Ukelelians.

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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby Mapar » Thu Oct 21, 2010 11:54 am UTC

The renaissance is awesome. So is the early baroque. 'Nuff said.


William Byrd, Claudio Monteverdi, Josquin des Prez, Joan Guttierez de Padilla, Mateo Flecha, Adriaan Willaert,... I could go on for another while.

Of course, I'm always 'crazy' or 'weird' when I mention this :)
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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby xkcdfan » Mon Oct 25, 2010 4:45 am UTC

I don't see what's so horrible about Justin Bieber.

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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby Lime » Tue Oct 26, 2010 3:59 am UTC

SecondTalon wrote:
Lime wrote:I fucking love Lady Gaga and Kesha.

And this is coming from somebody who likes music so indie that you ACTUALLY haven't heard of it.
Like Chocolate Love and the Shawshank Redemption? Or Telemundo Es Bueno?

I was thinking more along the lines of Audio/Rocketry, Fire Next Time, Desiderata, and the Rural Alberta Advantage.

As an added point to earlier, I also love folk, country and rap.

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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby sje46 » Wed Nov 10, 2010 6:11 am UTC

xkcdfan wrote:I don't see what's so horrible about Justin Bieber.

I don't know or care if he's actually "good" or not. Or if the guy who writes his songs are. People just like to choose one random person or band to pick on. Two years ago it was the Jonas Brothers and Hannah Montana. Ten years ago it was the Backstreet Boys and NSync. It's just an annoying meme.
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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby SirMustapha » Wed Nov 10, 2010 9:07 am UTC

sje46 wrote:
xkcdfan wrote:I don't see what's so horrible about Justin Bieber.

I don't know or care if he's actually "good" or not. Or if the guy who writes his songs are. People just like to choose one random person or band to pick on. Two years ago it was the Jonas Brothers and Hannah Montana. Ten years ago it was the Backstreet Boys and NSync. It's just an annoying meme.


Not one, but TWO: you must always mention Bieber AND Lady Gaga when you're going to rant about how the music from your time was absolutely better than everything that's going around today.

Yeah, I hate that too, it's annoying as all hell.

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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby Microscopic cog » Wed Nov 10, 2010 7:05 pm UTC

SirMustapha wrote:
sje46 wrote:
xkcdfan wrote:I don't see what's so horrible about Justin Bieber.

I don't know or care if he's actually "good" or not. Or if the guy who writes his songs are. People just like to choose one random person or band to pick on. Two years ago it was the Jonas Brothers and Hannah Montana. Ten years ago it was the Backstreet Boys and NSync. It's just an annoying meme.


Not one, but TWO: you must always mention Bieber AND Lady Gaga when you're going to rant about how the music from your time was absolutely better than everything that's going around today.

Yeah, I hate that too, it's annoying as all hell.


Nah really, where the opinions about Bieber are mostly negative, not only non-pop listeners, but also a lot of normal pop-listeners ( Many of the male, older people ) are negative about Bieber.

Gaga on the otherhand is more accepted by the older audience because here music is just a lot less childish.

Anyway, I agree with sje46 and I hope Justin will evently get rid of that image when he grows a beard.
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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby theGoldenCalf; » Thu Dec 02, 2010 9:43 am UTC

xkcdfan wrote:I don't see what's so horrible about Justin Bieber.


The hair. My god, the hair.
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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby Thirty-one » Thu Dec 02, 2010 10:33 am UTC

SirMustapha wrote:
sje46 wrote:
xkcdfan wrote:I don't see what's so horrible about Justin Bieber.

I don't know or care if he's actually "good" or not. Or if the guy who writes his songs are. People just like to choose one random person or band to pick on. Two years ago it was the Jonas Brothers and Hannah Montana. Ten years ago it was the Backstreet Boys and NSync. It's just an annoying meme.


Not one, but TWO: you must always mention Bieber AND Lady Gaga when you're going to rant about how the music from your time was absolutely better than everything that's going around today.

Yeah, I hate that too, it's annoying as all hell.


I don't listen to the radio (at all really), so I haven't got a very strong opinion about either.
My impression though is that the hate doesn't just stem from the often very, very simple music, but that it's combined with
omnipresence (or seemingly so, for people who listen to the radio/watch TV).

It should also be said that it isn't really true for Lady Gaga. On a forum for a metal band I like she's rather popular, due to her piano covers of her own songs.
If Bieber released something on youtube that would, in their eyes, indicate he was a musician too, I'm sure they wouldn't mind him so much.

tl;dr: People hate on it because they think it's eating up media time for "actual musicians".
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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby SirMustapha » Thu Dec 02, 2010 10:54 am UTC

Thirty-one wrote:It should also be said that it isn't really true for Lady Gaga. On a forum for a metal band I like she's rather popular, due to her piano covers of her own songs.
If Bieber released something on youtube that would, in their eyes, indicate he was a musician too, I'm sure they wouldn't mind him so much.


I doubt it. A LOT of people don't know about Gaga's piano stuff and treat her as this generation's Britney Spears. And if Bieber turned out to be a good musician, people can always choose simply not to care. People can be petty, you know.

Of course people end up despising this stuff more because it's everywhere, but it's always been like this. Chewy bubblegum music has anways taken up the media by force, but that stuff ends up fading away. Nobody has fond memories of the 80's/early 90's because of the New Kids on the Block, after all.

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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby Thirty-one » Thu Dec 02, 2010 11:01 am UTC

SirMustapha wrote:I doubt it. A LOT of people don't know about Gaga's piano stuff and treat her as this generation's Britney Spears. And if Bieber turned out to be a good musician, people can always choose simply not to care. People can be petty, you know.

Of course people end up despising this stuff more because it's everywhere, but it's always been like this. Chewy bubblegum music has anways taken up the media by force, but that stuff ends up fading away. Nobody has fond memories of the 80's/early 90's because of the New Kids on the Block, after all.


I guess (many?) different reasons for hating them exist then, ranging from just being petty to not valuing them as musicians.

I don't think it's any less of a problem just because it's always been a problem though. (Well, if you consider it a problem that is, I personally don't.
The radio is generally not that hard to avoid, you can find music communities online that share your view on what is "true music".)

I too hate when people say "I hate Justin Bieber, everything was better in the Xties". If they just say "I hate Justin Bieber." though, I take it to mean
they find that he takes up too much space.
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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby SecondTalon » Thu Dec 02, 2010 9:03 pm UTC

Music was only good from the eras that you enjoyed when you started to enjoy music in your teenage years. Everything else sucks.
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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby Microscopic cog » Thu Dec 02, 2010 10:19 pm UTC

I listen to music from the 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's and NOW's.

WHAT DO I HATE AND WHAT DO I LOVE?!

Oh god, I don't even know myself anymore.


On topic: Live music is always worse than album versions.
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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby Thirty-one » Thu Dec 02, 2010 11:22 pm UTC

Microscopic cog wrote:On topic: Live music is always worse than album versions.


I agree, unless it's very simple music, like grunge or something. For.. uhm.. proper music, there's too much that can go wrong.
I do enjoy the cleaned up DVDs where they've fixed the mix and dubbed the worst screw-ups though.
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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby sje46 » Thu Dec 02, 2010 11:35 pm UTC

Generally I'm not a fan of live music at all. I said that on some forum somewhere once, and people were shocked. But it is to be understood that I meant live music like...on a CD or computer or something. When you're actually there, that's a whole other story.

There are few times where I prefer to listen to a live version of a song, and I get very annoyed when all I can find are live versions on youtube.

This could all be a symptom of the type of music I enjoy though.
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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby SecondTalon » Fri Dec 03, 2010 4:37 am UTC

Microscopic cog wrote:I listen to music from the 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's and NOW's.

WHAT DO I HATE AND WHAT DO I LOVE?!

You're going to hate the shit they start putting out from 2015 onward.
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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby achan1058 » Fri Dec 03, 2010 5:07 am UTC

Thirty-one wrote:
Microscopic cog wrote:On topic: Live music is always worse than album versions.


I agree, unless it's very simple music, like grunge or something. For.. uhm.. proper music, there's too much that can go wrong.
I do enjoy the cleaned up DVDs where they've fixed the mix and dubbed the worst screw-ups though.
Or classical music. You can't beat the surround sound, and usually the orchestra is well enough that they don't make much of any mistakes. Even live music on disk are generally very well.

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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby legopelle » Fri Dec 03, 2010 11:07 pm UTC

achan1058 wrote:
Thirty-one wrote:
Microscopic cog wrote:On topic: Live music is always worse than album versions.


I agree, unless it's very simple music, like grunge or something. For.. uhm.. proper music, there's too much that can go wrong.
I do enjoy the cleaned up DVDs where they've fixed the mix and dubbed the worst screw-ups though.
Or classical music. You can't beat the surround sound, and usually the orchestra is well enough that they don't make much of any mistakes. Even live music on disk are generally very well.

Yes. Classical music should be preformed in a concert hall (or equivalent). The electronic cheats just doesn't cut it. For everything less complicated than that however is just as fine in studio, if not even better.
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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby Jesse » Sat Dec 04, 2010 11:05 am UTC

So much wrong. Tori Amos in the studio is pretty darn good. Tori Amos live is often mindblowing. I think probably because she changes her songs for the live shows I've heard.

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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby TheAmazingRando » Sat Dec 04, 2010 8:41 pm UTC

If I saw a band live and it was worse than their studio work, my opinion of them would go way down.

I suppose if they're going for a precise technical reproduction of their recorded music, seeing them live isn't very essential, it's just like a poorly done version of their album. To me, that just means they're a bad live band. But with a good band that can improvise and change up instrumentation or song structure, play to the crowd and really put a lot of energy into the performance, studio recordings can't come close. It adds a whole other dimension to the music.

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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby Роберт » Mon Dec 06, 2010 5:27 pm UTC

TheAmazingRando wrote:If I saw a band live and it was worse than their studio work, my opinion of them would go way down.

If you can't make the studio work better than the live work, you're doing it wrong.

However, they should be able to do good live shows, for sure. If the vocalist can't manage to sing decent vocals without tuning :cough:taylor swift:cough: than my opinion of them goes down.
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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby TheAmazingRando » Tue Dec 07, 2010 4:10 am UTC

Роберт wrote:If you can't make the studio work better than the live work, you're doing it wrong.
Depends what you mean by "better." In a technical sense, maybe, if you're talking sound quality, fullness of tone, timing, etc., but there are plenty of aspects of live performance that can't possibly be replicated with a recording. A band can hit all the right notes and still play a lousy set. Not to mention that what works great in a concert might not necessarily be that great on a recording, since the context is completely different.

I have a pretty romantic view of music as deep, personal expression, so to me, the fewer the barriers between the musician and the listener, the better. It's a very subjective thing, but so is everything else about music.

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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby Sandry » Tue Dec 07, 2010 5:01 pm UTC

Роберт wrote:
TheAmazingRando wrote:If I saw a band live and it was worse than their studio work, my opinion of them would go way down.

If you can't make the studio work better than the live work, you're doing it wrong.

However, they should be able to do good live shows, for sure. If the vocalist can't manage to sing decent vocals without tuning :cough:taylor swift:cough: than my opinion of them goes down.

The problem, I find, is that often live shows have an additional dynamic of energy and crowd-response that's easy to see while at the show, but then live recordings are made, and they don't always show those aspects so obviously. Yeah, if you're decent musicians your live shows don't sound like crap, but saying that live shows *ought* to be better is like saying sound engineers need to give up their day jobs. Which, dude. If you've heard high and low production value sounds, there's a really clear difference, and even when the low production value sound is an intentional effect the band chose, I still pretty much can't stand it.

There are some albums that are live in concert type recordings that I like, but most of them just have lower production values with not enough other depth to make up for that. I really think the ratio of live recordings that are better than studio vs studio that are better than live is like 1:100. Concerts themselves... I don't judge them on par with recorded music. The concert experience is not really all about what the music sounded like. It's about what the performers were doing, what the crowd was like, the general feeling you get... if you blocked out the audio, the concert would still have a whole lot of experience behind it.

Also I admit part of my problem here is that I ABSOLUTELY CANNOT STAND when bands/artists do that point the microphone at the audience and pretend they can sing along better than you, the lead singer who made the sound we're all trying to imitate. This almost never results in anything good. I like singing along, yes. Do I think the rest of the audience wants to hear me? Not particularly.
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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby Waterhouse » Tue Dec 07, 2010 6:37 pm UTC

SirMustapha wrote:...Nobody has fond memories of the 80's/early 90's because of the New Kids on the Block, after all.

Nostalgia does not discriminate.

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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby Роберт » Tue Dec 07, 2010 11:11 pm UTC

TheAmazingRando wrote:
Роберт wrote:If you can't make the studio work better than the live work, you're doing it wrong.
Depends what you mean by "better."

I mean better... the goal is set by the artist, I suppose. But the studio album should be (and generally is for me) more enjoyable and more compelling than the live album. What do you think studio albums will lack that live albums have?
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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby TheAmazingRando » Tue Dec 07, 2010 11:13 pm UTC

I'm talking live shows, not live albums. I've never heard a live album I thought was better than the studio work, except maybe some Grateful Dead bootlegs.

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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby Zanmanoodle » Wed Dec 08, 2010 6:23 am UTC

I think live vs. studio depends on the type of music.

If I go see a blues concert, like B.B. King or an undead SRV, I would want there to be plenty of improv and soul put into it. If I got see Led Zeppelin, (which, sadly, I won't) I want 20-minute Whole Lotta Love medley. Doing exactly like the studio would be counter to what the music is about. The same goes for most punk/grunge bands. If I get to see Iggy and the Stooges or Sonic Youth, the last thing I care about is comparing it to the studio. I care about the experience that is the live performance of said music.

When I saw ZZ Top live, a slightly louder rendition of studio songs would have disappointed. Instead, I got balls-to-the-wall blues jams, stand-up comedy, and a badass version of Foxey Lady.

On the other hand, when I saw Def Leppard live, I pretty much expected a louder rendition of the studio songs, only with crowds of cougars waaaay past their prime. I got exactly what I expected. And it was awesome (Def Leppard, not the cougars).

(Yes, I like Def Leppard. Don't judge.)

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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby majikthise » Mon Dec 13, 2010 1:06 pm UTC

TheAmazingRando wrote:I'm talking live shows, not live albums. I've never heard a live album I thought was better than the studio work, except maybe some Grateful Dead bootlegs.

Yep, Grateful Dead are the canonical counter example!

08/05/77 Morning Dew vs 1967 album version? Early, blistering pace Eleven jams vs any other version? No comparison.
In my opinion, the only album track I can think of that wasn't eclipsed by some live version somewhere is Golden Road To Ultimate Devotion, and that's probably because I haven't heard enough bootlegs!
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Re: Unpopular Musical Opinions

Postby Microscopic cog » Mon Dec 13, 2010 4:30 pm UTC

I'm talking live shows, not live albums. I've never heard a live album I thought was better than the studio work, except maybe some Grateful Dead bootlegs.


Seconding what above poster said, and also:

Songs/albums I think are better than the studio work:

- Nearly every Queen live audio recording. ( Especially Live at the Bowl '86 )
- Talking Heads - Stop Making Sense ( "The citizen Kane of rock performances" according to the DvD )
- Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds - Live Seeds ( From the year 1993, The Bad Seeds were on fire 1990-1996. Also Live in Berlin 2001 is a great performance )
- Serj Tankian - Elect the Dead symphony ( A live, orchestral version of his solo album, Elect the Dead )
- Pink Floyd - Pulse ( DUH )
- Radiohead - Creep ( An amazing acoustic version of their hit, "creep".
- Gabriel Rios - Broad Daylight ( Live, with an amaaaazing piano solo at the end )

I'm going to stop listing things now. Just some examples.
Spoiler:
Interviewer: Some people say they can’t understand your writing even after they read it two or three times. What approach would you suggest for them?

William Faulkner: Read it four times.


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