Backmasking andd Phoenetic Reversals

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Rex Idiotarum
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Backmasking andd Phoenetic Reversals

Postby Rex Idiotarum » Sun Dec 16, 2007 5:56 pm UTC

Hear why it's sung, opppisitioner.

Okay, stumbling through the net's a week ago I found a link on Youtube of Stairway to Heaven backwards. Haing just heard Stairway to Saint Paul, I was curious to see what Phoenitic reversals he was singing. And became shocked.

O! It makes me wonder.

Cause there is no doubt words there is you accept that there are. Still a bit skeptical, I told a friend about it, he argued with me, until I found a computer to link him to one of the many videos on the subject. Afterwards, he too had heard the words. He then states that when his kid brother listened without watching, he could not hear the words. However, last night, I listened to Highway to Hell backwards without watching the supposed lyrics, and heard the messages in that as well.

Are they on purpose, inside jokes? Or is it the result of a phenomenon known as "Reverse Speech" where your thoughts are injected into your words when sung backwards?

(I also became shocked to find backwards messages in ELO's Fire on High. :) )
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Re: Backmasking andd Phoenetic Reversals

Postby davef » Sun Dec 16, 2007 6:25 pm UTC

I was kinda hoping you had been banned.

What the hell are you on about?
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Re: Backmasking andd Phoenetic Reversals

Postby Rex Idiotarum » Sun Dec 16, 2007 7:02 pm UTC

You Tube Links.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgTAekO8 ... re=related - Stairway to Heaven
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dtli9HML ... re=related - Highway to Hell
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Si7xYf7ilE - Televangelists.

I include the last one because it supports the argument of Reverse Speech.
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Re: Backmasking andd Phoenetic Reversals

Postby jgcrawfo » Sun Dec 16, 2007 7:31 pm UTC

Your brain is a remarkably clever thing! It is full of thoughts and thinking, and it has the capacity to fill in what is left empty for you, and to try and recognize patterns and things where there might be some.
However, despite the best efforts of your very clever brain, you are making yourself look the fool. If you prime your brain with things you might hear, you will probably hear them. People are really good at seeing what they want to see.

Also, those unrelated videos you linked, what are they, the new Sigur Ros or something? Or some Icelandic electronic band?
Last edited by jgcrawfo on Sun Dec 16, 2007 7:57 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Backmasking andd Phoenetic Reversals

Postby jgcrawfo » Sun Dec 16, 2007 7:40 pm UTC

After watching those videos, I am convinced.
Convinced that Sigur Ros is actually one tiny Indian man with a computer plus his comically ignorant cockney thug of a best-friend, who he records while they're both on the drink and arguing about each other's sisters. Then they play it backwards over some stock loops they grabbed off of garage band and re-sequenced.
Last edited by jgcrawfo on Sun Dec 16, 2007 7:56 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Backmasking andd Phoenetic Reversals

Postby Rex Idiotarum » Sun Dec 16, 2007 7:47 pm UTC

Similarly, people are good at not hearing what they don't want to hear. I only look like a fool because the accepted choice is that there isn't any messages, but of course, for one to presume the possibilities of having backwards messages they have to be one of those Conspiracy theorists, right?

I think I hear only what I think I hear. I think you hear what you want to not be there, nonsense. Hell, your reaction to the links I posted proves this enough.

So, to instantly jump on Skepticism makes you as gullible as those that instantly jump to Conspiracy theorists.

No one who asks questions is a fool for those questions alone; only those that hide their face from facts and see what they want to see is.

I did not come into this saying "Led Zepplin must be satan worshipers!" you came into it saying that there are no backwards messages.

So, Judge not; just explore. It's what I'm doing. How am I the fool?
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Re: Backmasking andd Phoenetic Reversals

Postby jgcrawfo » Sun Dec 16, 2007 7:50 pm UTC

I am also pretty sure that our pal Satan was having a good old laugh about rock and roll music over beers with Buddha and Hermes, and thought "hey wouldn't it be hilarious if I made one of those power-ballads sound like that poem my nephew wrote for his grade three creative writing class? Those goofs would have a field day with that!"

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Re: Backmasking andd Phoenetic Reversals

Postby Rex Idiotarum » Sun Dec 16, 2007 7:58 pm UTC

In that Stairway to Heaven hints strongly at the fact that "sometimes words have two meanings."

The first thing you have to learn when listening to music is that very little of it is Literal.
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Re: Backmasking andd Phoenetic Reversals

Postby Ghandi 2 » Sun Dec 16, 2007 8:32 pm UTC

It doesn't exist, you find it because your brain is looking for it. You heard it that one time without looking at the fake lyrics because you already knew them and knew what to listen for.

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Re: Backmasking andd Phoenetic Reversals

Postby Rex Idiotarum » Sun Dec 16, 2007 8:43 pm UTC

Hehehe... so quick to dismiss, then how do you explain the fact that I don't quite agree with the "fake" lyrics.

Like that part "where he made us suffer sad Satan." It actually sounds more like "where he made us suffer Sadly." Nor does it explain how clearly I heard "There's no Money" the first time I listened to the backwards Highway to Hell, without even knowing the supposed "Fake Lyrics".

I think it works like listening to a Song. The brain can interpret selected instruments from a Song. Focus on the Bass, you can hear all the notes the bass plays. Normally, one would not be able to tell each of the Bass Notes without focusing on the Bass. Same thing here, if you are able to focus on Words, you can hear words, since it is mixed up and not paced as normal speech goes, one without sensitive ears or those that close themselves off to it may not hear it.

Sounds a lot more plausible than me thinking that AC/DC are greedy.
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Re: Backmasking andd Phoenetic Reversals

Postby yelly » Sun Dec 16, 2007 8:46 pm UTC

Even though the Zep were kinda mystical sometime, I really doubt they would inject such a message into a song on purpose (and the odds of it really happening by accident are slim). On the other hand, I do agree that sometimes artists do do this (there is a Floyd song that jumps to mind, I can't remember the name, you know, the one where they say "you have discovered the secret message...")
Plus, please no more stairway blasphemy :)
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Re: Backmasking andd Phoenetic Reversals

Postby 1337geek » Sun Dec 16, 2007 10:52 pm UTC

My friend and I took a live recording of "Stairway to Heaven" by a cover band and reversed it. What happened? The exact same 'message' appeared. That proves two things: first, the Satanic message was unintentional, and second, that's a good cover band.
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Re: Backmasking andd Phoenetic Reversals

Postby 1337geek » Sun Dec 16, 2007 11:03 pm UTC

yelly wrote:On the other hand, I do agree that sometimes artists do do this (there is a Floyd song that jumps to mind, I can't remember the name, you know, the one where they say "you have discovered the secret message...")

"Empty Spaces" is the song you're thinking of.

Weird Al has a couple intentional (and amusing) backwards messages in "Nature Trail to Hell" and "I Remember Larry."

I'd certainly like to know of any other songs with REAL messages. I've heard of all the fake ones.
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Re: Backmasking andd Phoenetic Reversals

Postby rxninja » Sun Dec 16, 2007 11:43 pm UTC

We studied this in one of my advanced communication classes and the conclusion was that you can take quite a few arbitrary phrases, play them backwards, and get people to make up "clear" messages with a little help. The key to backwards messages, however, is priming and that in greater than 9/10 of the cases, people could not coherently hear messages on their own, but could instead force them to appear if told what to look for "X message." That's called researcher bias, not a learned ear, so, sorry Rex, your idea is a crock of shit.
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Re: Backmasking andd Phoenetic Reversals

Postby arkady » Mon Dec 17, 2007 12:57 am UTC

I don't think you can encode subliminal messages by back masking, although I'd love to try and come up with a way of testing to see if people are affected by it (i.e. add a subliminal back masked track to a recording: one saying something happy, one something sad and one just some nonsense [as a control] and see if there's any difference in reactions.)

Sometimes bands do it on purpose, though. Lots of cases with "reversed talking" messages are very, very tenuous.

Rex Idiotarum wrote:So, to instantly jump on Skepticism makes you as gullible as those that instantly jump to Conspiracy theorists.


How does this makes sense? Gullibility is believing something falsely without evidence, or with bad evidence, scepticism is refusing believe something until provided with adequate evidence. I don't see how the sceptical view can be gullible, since the very aim of it is to not fall for tricks.
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Re: Backmasking andd Phoenetic Reversals

Postby Ghandi 2 » Mon Dec 17, 2007 11:39 am UTC

You're still listening for something, and if you look hard enough, you'll find it.

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Re: Backmasking andd Phoenetic Reversals

Postby Toeofdoom » Mon Dec 17, 2007 11:47 am UTC

I have to say the led zeppelin one isn't intentional, as it A. only appears after you read the "lyrics" B. With the recording equipment at the time it would've been a gigantic waste of time C. even when you read the lyrics it doesn't sound right. No-one can ever agree to what it really says.

I think the reason people dismiss it so fast is because they've already been through it a bunch of times and made up their minds, and you present no new and compelling evidence.
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Re: Backmasking andd Phoenetic Reversals

Postby jgcrawfo » Mon Dec 17, 2007 2:00 pm UTC

That is why I dismissed it so quickly. Nothing new is presented, this is an old, dull discussion.

Also,
Rex Idiotarum wrote:Or is it the result of a phenomenon known as "Reverse Speech" where your thoughts are injected into your words when sung backwards?
makes me react negatively to the concepts presented in the same post.

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Re: Backmasking andd Phoenetic Reversals

Postby Dream » Mon Dec 17, 2007 2:16 pm UTC

jgcrawfo wrote:That is why I dismissed it so quickly. Nothing new is presented, this is an old, dull discussion.

Also,
Rex Idiotarum wrote:Or is it the result of a phenomenon known as "Reverse Speech" where your thoughts are injected into your words when sung backwards?
makes me react negatively to the concepts presented in the same post.


But, wait. There's clearly a subliminal message in his sig. When I turned it upside down twice, it seemed to say "AMEN". How do you explain that?

And if that's not enough, then explain the subliminal extra "d" in the thread title.

You, sir, clearly have your head firmly stuck in the sand :wink:
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Re: Backmasking andd Phoenetic Reversals

Postby Unakau » Mon Dec 17, 2007 10:23 pm UTC

I'm surprised that no one has brought up Weird Al's spoof on this.

In one of his songs, a clear, backwards message appears. Some debate its meaning, many condemn Weird Al for his devil worship. Only one thing is for sure, though.

"Satan eats cheese whiz."

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Re: Backmasking andd Phoenetic Reversals

Postby Mathmagic » Tue Dec 18, 2007 2:46 am UTC

Unakau wrote:I'm surprised that no one has brought up Weird Al's spoof on this
1337geek wrote:Weird Al has a couple intentional (and amusing) backwards messages in "Nature Trail to Hell" and "I Remember Larry."
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Re: Backmasking andd Phoenetic Reversals

Postby a386 » Tue Dec 18, 2007 4:55 am UTC



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