Revolutionary!

It's only cool if no one's heard of it.

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Revolutionary!

Postby Aleril » Thu Jan 31, 2008 4:47 pm UTC

What bands do you think revolutionized music over the years?

I would have to say Radiohead as a more modern revolutionary since they are known as the ones who really revolutionized experimental rock into a pure art form. Also Aphex Twin as he is the first one who really pushed the limits on techno and electronic rock.

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Re: Revolutionary!

Postby Goatboy » Thu Jan 31, 2008 10:00 pm UTC

When I first saw the thread topic, I got excited because I had an opportunity to drop some Radiohead knowledge on ya'll. Aleril totally beat me to it. It's interesting to note that the electronic nature of Kid A is largely the result of an exercise that Nigel Godrich (who has worked with Radiohead on everything since the My Iron Lung EP) implemented to help the band overcome writer's block. He sent half the group to make beats and loops in the producing room, and the other half to make melodies with no guitars or drums or anything. (Footman, Tim. Welcome to the Machine: OK Computer and the Death of the Classic Album. 1st ed. Surrey, UK: Chrome Dreams, 2007.)
Bob Marley revolutionized popular music by adding reggae to the popular spectrum. There, I'll go with Marley.
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Re: Revolutionary!

Postby Dream » Fri Feb 01, 2008 2:08 am UTC

Some Random Names that come to mind:

Kraftwerk.



Deleted a bunch of other names.

No one has had the effect on modern popular music that Kraftwerk have. Several important blues artists (taken together) have, and certain producers, but no one artist alone comes close to the change that Kraftwerk made. The world would sound very different without those four men.
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Re: Revolutionary!

Postby Gaz » Fri Feb 01, 2008 5:57 am UTC

Frank Sinatra really helped open doors for black artists, and Korn were one of the first bands (along with Radiohead) to use the internet to connect with fans.
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Re: Revolutionary!

Postby davef » Fri Feb 01, 2008 1:30 pm UTC

Didn't Marillion pioneer the 'connect to the fans via the internet' thing?
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Re: Revolutionary!

Postby wery67564 » Fri Feb 01, 2008 2:01 pm UTC

Herbie Hancock, Afrikka Bambata, and kraftwerk for electronic/rap

As far as rock, probably Chuck Berry...
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Re: Revolutionary!

Postby Goatboy » Fri Feb 01, 2008 7:49 pm UTC

And you know what? The thing I cited about Kid A did refer to it as taking the Kraftwerk route of making music. I'll give you that.
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Re: Revolutionary!

Postby Unbeknown » Sat Feb 02, 2008 12:18 am UTC

The Stooges (1968-1974)

A few years after The Beatles sang " I want to hold your hand" Iggy Pop, front man for The Stooges screamed " I want to be your dog". In an era of Prog Rock and Pop Songs The Stooges played their instruments with ferocity, simplicity and with more volume than anyone else. Iggy Pop was one of the very first musicians to stage dive and go into the audience, as well as lyrically covering themes unpopular at the time- drug use, alienation, nihilism.

Influential Stooges Fans included Thurston Moore, Henry Rollins, Nick Cave Jack White and Kurt Cobain, whilst Stooges songs have been notably covered by The Sex Pistols, Red Hot Chilli Peppers and Guns n Roses. The Stooges foreshadowed punk by almost 10 years in crafting 3 chord songs filled with distortion and a cynical, rebellious view of life and authority figures.

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Re: Revolutionary!

Postby Dream » Sat Feb 02, 2008 1:30 am UTC

Unbeknown wrote:The Stooges (1968-1974)

A few years after The Beatles sang " I want to hold your hand" Iggy Pop, front man for The Stooges screamed " I want to be your dog". In an era of Prog Rock and Pop Songs The Stooges played their instruments with ferocity, simplicity and with more volume than anyone else. Iggy Pop was one of the very first musicians to stage dive and go into the audience, as well as lyrically covering themes unpopular at the time- drug use, alienation, nihilism.

Influential Stooges Fans included Thurston Moore, Henry Rollins, Nick Cave Jack White and Kurt Cobain, whilst Stooges songs have been notably covered by The Sex Pistols, Red Hot Chilli Peppers and Guns n Roses. The Stooges foreshadowed punk by almost 10 years in crafting 3 chord songs filled with distortion and a cynical, rebellious view of life and authority figures.

Very true. They're a really big one. But you left out of your list Bowie, through whom further multitudes were affected second hand by The Stooges, and who was obviously very important in Iggy Pop's solo career.

Speaking of Thurston Moore, I'm going to mention Sonic Youth. Even aside from the music, I believe they had a big hand in the discovery and signing of both Nirvana and Smashing Pumpkins. (No source on that, so if someone were to correct me, that would be cool.) They are also a model of how to grow old gracefully as rock musicians, which is a rare, rare quality.
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Re: Revolutionary!

Postby yellie » Sat Feb 02, 2008 1:54 am UTC

No-one said the Beatles? Are they too obvious?

Some names that come to mind (that haven't been mentioned already): Johnny Cash, Pink Floyd, Bob Dylan, The Doors, Buddy Holly...

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Re: Revolutionary!

Postby Gaz » Sat Feb 02, 2008 3:16 am UTC

Didn't Marillion pioneer the 'connect to the fans via the internet' thing?


Good call. Korn and Radiohead were the ones that jumped to my mind first.

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Re: Revolutionary!

Postby Zak » Sat Feb 02, 2008 3:43 am UTC

Nirvana maybe?
*waggles eyebrows*

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Re: Revolutionary!

Postby Matthias » Sat Feb 02, 2008 3:51 am UTC

Wagner basically invented the modern opera. And I have, on at least one occasion, shouted out "Oh yeah, that's my jam" when "Charge of the Valkyries" came on the radio.

So I'll go with Wagner.
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Re: Revolutionary!

Postby Gaz » Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:42 am UTC

Z.A.K wrote:Nirvana maybe?


Nirvana was unique but not original. Pixies and Mudhoney stand as good examples of their roots in my mind.
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Re: Revolutionary!

Postby davef » Sat Feb 02, 2008 12:08 pm UTC

Gaz wrote:
Nirvana was unique but not original.


?

Sense: your post makes none.
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Re: Revolutionary!

Postby Goatboy » Sat Feb 02, 2008 5:07 pm UTC

Dream wrote:Speaking of Thurston Moore, I'm going to mention Sonic Youth. Even aside from the music, I believe they had a big hand in the discovery and signing of both Nirvana and Smashing Pumpkins. (No source on that, so if someone were to correct me, that would be cool.) They are also a model of how to grow old gracefully as rock musicians, which is a rare, rare quality.


Also, Lee Ranaldo of Sonic Youth was a big Daniel Johnston fan and brought him to New York to try finally get Johnston's breakthrough album recorded (it didn't fair well).

@davef: Nirvana were unique in that they became wildly popular, their frontman became iconic (he is very pretty), and their influence on music has been indelible. However, Nirvana's sound was a culmination of influences, in a pretty direct manner. Where Radiohead drew inspiration from such disparate sources as the Smiths, Miles Davis and Krzysztof Penderecki, they molded it into something that sounded like Radiohead instead. Nirvana took influences like the Pixies, Mudhoney, and the Melvins (and of course the Beatles), and made music that sounded like somebody who listened to loads of Pixies, Melvins and Mudhoney, except you didn't know who they were yet.
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Re: Revolutionary!

Postby davef » Sat Feb 02, 2008 5:56 pm UTC

I kind of figured that someone would say something like that, and you're not entirely wrong there, Goatboy. However I would say that it took Radiohead a while to sound like Radiohead, in that their first two albums, regardless of whether you like them or not (and I do), are not exactly sonically groundbreaking - they are 'merely' a good rock album (in the case of Pablo Honey) and a great rock album (in the case of The Bends). After that they really cut loose and started to sound like something that was uniquely Radiohead.

I suggest the same is true of Nirvana.
Bleach? Pretty good punkish album, lots of potential, world not yet set on fire.
Nevermind? A Great With A Capital G punk/rock album, world in flames thanks to an incredible first single, frontman with looks, a unique voice and personal problems = media gold. A sound that's not entirely new, but new enough to most of the world that they're hailed as a truly original band.
In Utero? Now they really start sounding like Nirvana. Again, my or your opinion of the album is not the question here. The fact is they sound like no-one else on earth by this stage.

Let's not turn this into a "The reason we hear no nore truly original music is because no-one is given a chance to develop their sound over two or three albums anymore..." -type discussion, though, eh? :)
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Re: Revolutionary!

Postby grant » Sat Feb 02, 2008 11:09 pm UTC

Edgard Varese (1883-1965):
huge 20th century influence, from Frank Zappa, to Pierre Boulez, John Cage, Morton Feldman, etc.

check out Ionization! or, everything he wrote if you have the time. It's only about 2 cd's worth.

http://www.amazon.com/Var%C3%A8se-Compl ... 781&sr=8-1

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Re: Revolutionary!

Postby Mighty Jalapeno » Sat Feb 02, 2008 11:51 pm UTC

wery67564 wrote:Herbie Hancock,

Dammit, beat me.
Unbeknown wrote:The Stooges (1968-1974).

Dammit, beat me.

Nirvana was not no much influential, as just the most well-known of a very full genre (see: Pixies, Mother Love Bone, Alice In Chains, et al)

Metallica, for proving to America that metal had substance, not just hair (Europe figured that out in the 70s)

Hawkwind - often cited as the first spacerock band and one of the most unique bands of the 70's, thet actually formed in 69. Fusing jazz, blues, rock, some of the earliest synthesizers, distortion and drugs, they influenced just about EVERY big 80's thing (and some 90s).

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Re: Revolutionary!

Postby Dream » Sun Feb 03, 2008 3:24 am UTC

davef, I would imagine Goatboy had in mind Radiohead's career as a whole, considering the Penderecki and Miles Davis mentions. You're not wrong, not by a long shot, but I'd say The Bends was a very big deal in terms of melding it's lush textures with straight up loud rock music. It had of course been done in the past, but wasn't something that was accepted as part of mainstream rock music.

Roxy Music, for many, many reasons. And also Brian Eno, who never put a foot wrong until he got involved with recent U2. Basically I think that anyone who was pushing the boundaries of the synthesizer as a popular instrument in the 20th century was part of one of the biggest revolutions in the history of music. So many things that were never possible before the synthesizer were now open to musicians, and those who plunged in headfirst and broke ground for everyone who came after are to be loudly applauded. The same is true, although to a lesser extent, of the sampler.

Tape composers, too, were using an entirely new method of music creation that had not ever been possible before. Stockhausen comes to mind here, but before him people were already laying groundwork. Even in the 1940's composers were experimenting with using disc lathes to create collaged music of found sounds and noises. These developments arguably were far more important than any popular artist could ever hope to be, dealing as they did with the very question of what music is, and how it can be created.
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Re: Revolutionary!

Postby Gaz » Sun Feb 03, 2008 8:51 am UTC

Sense: your post makes none.
Gaz wrote:
Nirvana was unique but not original.


?

Sense: your post makes none.



Goatboy helped explain my view. Bands can be unique but not original. System of a Down? Instantly recognisable. Groundbreaking? Hell no. They're a sweet mix-up of different genres for sure, but nothing they can really claim to their own.

Nirvana did become more Nirvana-y as the albums go on, the same for any other band. It's just their albums sound straight up like their influences. Nothing quite original there.
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Re: Revolutionary!

Postby Gaz » Sun Feb 03, 2008 8:52 am UTC


?

Sense: your post makes none.



Goatboy helped explain my view. Bands can be unique but not original. System of a Down? Instantly recognisable. Groundbreaking? Hell no. They're a sweet mix-up of different genres for sure, but nothing they can really claim to their own.

Nirvana did become more Nirvana-y as the albums go on, the same for any other band. It's just their albums sound straight up like their influences. Nothing quite original there.[/quote]
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Re: Revolutionary!

Postby yelly » Sun Feb 03, 2008 7:04 pm UTC

I really love listening to music from the beginning(ish) of it's respective genre and just hearing how the music that was around at the time just turns into something new and incredible. The Clash's London Calling is a great example of that for me. You can hear the heavy jazz influence going on, but the when you get to the title song, something new and incredible starts happening, and it is punk rock. Same applies to the bluesy Led Zep forming into modern hard rock and pop-y Madness turning into Ska.
I have also recently rediscovered Squeeze (late 70s and early 80s) that had stuff going on that the rest of the music world wouldn't hit for at least another 5 years, if not more.
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Re: Revolutionary!

Postby malec2b » Mon Feb 04, 2008 12:54 am UTC

King Crimson kicked off the prog rock that would be a major force in the 70s and started the general spirit of expirimentation, genre fusion and technical skill in music that was found during the 70s. People mentioned radiohead, but expirimental rock was a major force back in the 70s in the form of Prog rock.

Mott the Hoople I think had a much more subtle influence. Although they were never very popular, their influence can be heard in bands like Queen (and their song Bohemian Rhapsody) and even can be heard in the Punk Rock movement.

Jimi Hendrix revolutionized guitar playing.

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Re: Revolutionary!

Postby aion7 » Mon Feb 04, 2008 1:50 am UTC

Beethoven was far more revolutionary than any of this stuff.
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Re: Revolutionary!

Postby Mighty Jalapeno » Mon Feb 04, 2008 5:30 am UTC

aion7 wrote:Beethoven was far more revolutionary than any of this stuff.

Yes, Beethoven influenced black slave music, which in turn affected every Western musical style... I loved that movie.

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Re: Revolutionary!

Postby Zak » Mon Feb 04, 2008 5:32 am UTC

What movie?

The only movie that references black slave music that i know of is Blazing Saddles.
*waggles eyebrows*

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Re: Revolutionary!

Postby Mighty Jalapeno » Mon Feb 04, 2008 5:33 am UTC

Z.A.K wrote:What movie?

The only movie that references black slave music that i know of is Blazing Saddles.

The movie It's A Joke, AND Serious Business. Big movie.

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Re: Revolutionary!

Postby Goatboy » Mon Feb 04, 2008 10:03 pm UTC

Well, if we're going down the "Black slave music spawned all of western popular music" route, then it's gotta go to Robert Johnson and Leadbelly, then you go down the lines through the popular movements in jazz (Fats Waller, Duke Ellington, Louis Armstrong, Ella Fitzgerald, B.B. King) until you get to Chuck Berry and the crossover from Rock & Roll being 'black music' to Elvis making it 'white music.' It's weird to me to think of Elvis as a revolutionary, though, that his music was once new and exciting and like nothing we'd ever heard.

@davef: I agree with you most of the way, there, but it's weird to think of Nirvana as revolutionary because as soon as they really started sounding like Nirvana, about 100 other bands did as well. That may well be the definition of a revolutionary sound, but it was so imitable that I'm hesitant to give full credit to a single band that was the result of a movement. The true revolutionary is the one that starts the movement (which in this case is quite arguable).

Also, I keep wanting to mention Sublime on this thread, but I just can't justify it.
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Re: Revolutionary!

Postby Namaps » Tue Feb 19, 2008 4:10 am UTC

Goatboy wrote:It's weird to me to think of Elvis as a revolutionary, though, that his music was once new and exciting and like nothing we'd ever heard.


It wasn't "like nothing people had ever heard." It was "what people had been hearing for a while now but white folk wouldn't accept because it was played by black musicians." Elvis was big because he was not a musical pioneer; he was a white guy who could play black music the way black folk played it.

Anyway, the names that come to mind for me are

The Beatles
Charlie Parker
Fela Kuti (you don't have to be good at playing your instrument to change things)
The Velvet Underground
Herbie Hancock
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Re: Revolutionary!

Postby McCaber » Tue Feb 19, 2008 7:12 am UTC

How about 80s punk rock? Two power chords have never sounded so good.

Bands like the Ramones and the Sex Pistols made rock accessible to the young generation, gave it new life and emotion, and got very many kids to pick up guitars and channel their love and anger through music.

Because of their contributions, rock switched gears from a Pink Floyd, ELO type lofty experience to a loud, visceral scene for both the bands themselves and their fans. They get my vote for the most revolutionary music, probably ever.
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Re: Revolutionary!

Postby Noff » Tue Feb 19, 2008 8:11 am UTC

Unbeknown wrote:The Stooges (1968-1974)

A few years after The Beatles sang " I want to hold your hand" Iggy Pop, front man for The Stooges screamed " I want to be your dog". In an era of Prog Rock and Pop Songs The Stooges played their instruments with ferocity, simplicity and with more volume than anyone else. Iggy Pop was one of the very first musicians to stage dive and go into the audience, as well as lyrically covering themes unpopular at the time- drug use, alienation, nihilism.

Influential Stooges Fans included Thurston Moore, Henry Rollins, Nick Cave Jack White and Kurt Cobain, whilst Stooges songs have been notably covered by The Sex Pistols, Red Hot Chilli Peppers and Guns n Roses. The Stooges foreshadowed punk by almost 10 years in crafting 3 chord songs filled with distortion and a cynical, rebellious view of life and authority figures.


I feel like this post should be on the back cover of a Stooges documentary. That's a good thing though.

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Re: Revolutionary!

Postby socynicalsohip » Tue Feb 19, 2008 2:26 pm UTC

Limp Bizkit....

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Re: Revolutionary!

Postby Felstaff » Tue Feb 19, 2008 2:41 pm UTC

I believe I'll dust my broom.

A seminal song by a legendary pioneer and a criminally small Wikipedia entry.

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Re: Revolutionary!

Postby wery67564 » Tue Feb 19, 2008 3:29 pm UTC

*shudders* limp bizkit? ok 'nuf said.

I forgot about two good 'uns, Syd Barret and The Brian Jonestown Massacre.

Pink Floyd was shaped by Barret, and so was a lot of 60's rock, can anyone say first psychedelic band?

BJTM just was really the first band to go, FUCK YOU MAN!... i'm staying indie, and doing heroin, and making billions of albums for nothing....
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Re: Revolutionary!

Postby socynicalsohip » Tue Feb 19, 2008 4:08 pm UTC

.... OK obviously not a forum full of Limpers here then.

In all seriousness how about Grandmaster Flash and the Sugar Hill Gang? I know it's debatable but many would say that mainstream Hip Hop truly started with them.

It also depends whether we are talking revoluntionary with regards to the music or culturally...

Culturally I would say that the Sex Pistols were one of the biggest musical influences on the popular culture in the past 30 years and have had an enduring legacy. Whereas muscially acts such as the Beatles, Bowie, The Who, Led Zep, Deep Purple, Kraftwerk, Grandmaster Flash, Kool DJ Herc, Afrika Bambataa and Limp Bizkit have had more influence on our Aural Vista.
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Re: Revolutionary!

Postby Mighty Jalapeno » Tue Feb 19, 2008 4:12 pm UTC

Well, Limp Bizkit may have brought rap-rock to the forefront, but the only thing they were truly awesome at was Wes Borland (and ironically, now that he makes his own music, he's not interesting at ALL, musically), but really, everything they did, Kid Rock did earlier (and were it not for Vanilla Ice, would have been famous for earlier, too).

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Re: Revolutionary!

Postby socynicalsohip » Tue Feb 19, 2008 4:14 pm UTC

...despite being a fan, I was trying to be ironic.

I know that limp bizkit did not define their genre because it was obviously Linkin Park.
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Re: Revolutionary!

Postby ChocloManx » Tue Feb 19, 2008 7:22 pm UTC

I agree with the dude who said King Crimson.
I think Queen was a major influence on bands like Iron Maiden, Guns 'n Roses, My Chemical Romance and the whole genre of "epic" and "neoclassical" metal.

They weren't too experimental (except in vocal and guitar harmonies (really, listen to their first albums )), but they sure influenced a hell of a lot of bands.

There are many others, of course.
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Re: Revolutionary!

Postby Goatboy » Tue Feb 19, 2008 8:19 pm UTC

McCaber wrote:How about 80s punk rock? Two power chords have never sounded so good.

Bands like the Ramones and the Sex Pistols made rock accessible to the young generation, gave it new life and emotion, and got very many kids to pick up guitars and channel their love and anger through music.

Because of their contributions, rock switched gears from a Pink Floyd, ELO type lofty experience to a loud, visceral scene for both the bands themselves and their fans. They get my vote for the most revolutionary music, probably ever.
You're off by a decade, actually, the Pistols didn't make it to the end of the 70s, even. And I think the Clash had a more lasting and widespread influence by doing what Elvis did before them and incorporating "black" music into their own. Mostly reggae, but also hip hop, well before that was trendy. Check out "The Magnificent Seven" if you haven't already.
I have nothing to offer anybody except my own confusion.
And some old pictures.


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