Pitchfork needs to get Pitchforked

It's only cool if no one's heard of it.

Moderators: SecondTalon, Moderators General, Prelates

User avatar
Izawwlgood
WINNING
Posts: 18686
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:55 pm UTC
Location: There may be lovelier lovelies...

Pitchfork needs to get Pitchforked

Postby Izawwlgood » Wed Feb 13, 2008 8:36 pm UTC

http://www.theonion.com/content/news/pi ... _music_6_8

Read that. Then come back here.

I loathe PITCHFORK MEDIA, full of its ungodly pretension and vampiric music reviews. Everytime I've read a review by them I've wanted to strangle the author. Yes, the columnists are talented writers who clearly have a solid grasp of the english language (or at least have a thesaurus on hand). Yes, they review a wide range of music. That about ends the positive things I have to say about this site.

Pitchfork to me sums one of the problems with those less open minded of the emo/indie music scene: "Whats this! Someone else likes it! It must suck! Wait! It sounds like radiohead? I must love it, because everyone else does!"
Last edited by Izawwlgood on Wed Feb 13, 2008 9:45 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
... with gigantic melancholies and gigantic mirth, to tread the jeweled thrones of the Earth under his sandalled feet.

User avatar
rrwoods
Posts: 1509
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2007 5:57 pm UTC
Location: US

Re: Pitchfork needs to get Pitchforked

Postby rrwoods » Wed Feb 13, 2008 8:59 pm UTC

I have no idea what Pitchfork is, but if that Onion article wasn't already oozing funny out of every orifice, I'd father its children.
31/M/taken/US
age/gender/interest/country

Belial wrote:The sex card is tournament legal. And I am tapping it for, like, six mana.

User avatar
niteice
Posts: 186
Joined: Wed May 02, 2007 4:17 am UTC
Contact:

Re: Pitchfork needs to get Pitchforked

Postby niteice » Wed Feb 13, 2008 9:24 pm UTC

The Onion...



...is satire.
GENERATION 4294967292: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum, negate the generation, and convert it to a 32-bit unsigned integer. Social experiment.

User avatar
Izawwlgood
WINNING
Posts: 18686
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:55 pm UTC
Location: There may be lovelier lovelies...

Re: Pitchfork needs to get Pitchforked

Postby Izawwlgood » Wed Feb 13, 2008 9:45 pm UTC

Well, just in case you didn't get it... I'm railing against PITCHFORK MEDIA, *NOT* The Onion. I love the Onion. I hate pitchfork...
... with gigantic melancholies and gigantic mirth, to tread the jeweled thrones of the Earth under his sandalled feet.

SomeoneElse
Posts: 235
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:09 pm UTC
Location: England
Contact:

Re: Pitchfork needs to get Pitchforked

Postby SomeoneElse » Wed Feb 13, 2008 9:55 pm UTC

Pitchfork is hilarious; I love reading their album reviews purely for lulz. And that Onion article is spot on.

User avatar
Bakemaster
pretty nice future dick
Posts: 8933
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 2:33 pm UTC
Location: One of those hot places

Re: Pitchfork needs to get Pitchforked

Postby Bakemaster » Wed Feb 13, 2008 10:29 pm UTC

niteice wrote:The Onion...



...is satire.

Your point being?
Image
c0 = 2.13085531 × 1014 smoots per fortnight
"Apparently you can't summon an alternate timeline clone of your inner demon, guys! Remember that." —Noc

User avatar
no-genius
Seemed like a good idea at the time
Posts: 4221
Joined: Wed May 17, 2006 6:32 pm UTC
Location: UK
Contact:

Re: Pitchfork needs to get Pitchforked

Postby no-genius » Thu Feb 14, 2008 1:15 pm UTC

niteice wrote:The Onion is "satire".

Also, loved this: "In the end, though music can be brilliant at times, the whole medium comes off as derivative of Pavement."

To be honest, I tend to use all music guide more than I ever used Pitchf*rk.
I don't sing, I just shout. All. On. One. Note.
Official ironmen you are free, champions officially

The Mighty Thesaurus wrote:Why? It does nothing to address dance music's core problem: the fact that it sucks.

User avatar
Clumpy
Posts: 1883
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 4:48 am UTC
Contact:

Re: Pitchfork needs to get Pitchforked

Postby Clumpy » Thu Feb 14, 2008 6:39 pm UTC

I love Pitchfork, for the same reasons that you hate it. The pretentiousness and refusal to consider really mainstream releases amuse me. It's like the geeky, annoying friend that you hold onto because he says something interesting once in a while.

Here's an image that I found yesterday that sums up the site pretty well. Pitchfork does more good than harm, and the only thing that I really hate about them is the occasional instance where they'll write a rambling, idiotic review only tangentially related to the record.

User avatar
Izawwlgood
WINNING
Posts: 18686
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:55 pm UTC
Location: There may be lovelier lovelies...

Re: Pitchfork needs to get Pitchforked

Postby Izawwlgood » Thu Feb 14, 2008 6:43 pm UTC

well said, and funny image! Maybe its more a love hate thing. Maybe the hate i feel for it is really the groaning hilarity that ensues when one heres a REALLY bad pun, like something Spider Robinson concocts. Maybe it'd be fun to lock them in a room and play the Goo Goo Dolls and Slipknot on repeat. Or open a window and expose them to the sun. But yeah, well said!

They wrote a review about Aesop Rock that just reverberates in my head whenever I hear his "gravelly-bass voice"... So... Yeah...
... with gigantic melancholies and gigantic mirth, to tread the jeweled thrones of the Earth under his sandalled feet.

User avatar
Ren
Rockin' Robin
Posts: 2933
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2007 3:06 pm UTC
Location: Kitchener, Ontario
Contact:

Re: Pitchfork needs to get Pitchforked

Postby Ren » Thu Feb 14, 2008 8:31 pm UTC

I tend to stray more toward music blogs like Said the Gramophone, but Pitchfork...is good for what it is.

They don't claim to be unbiased, and album reviews are never going to be opinionless. I like Pitchfork. They usually have some good points, and even if their rating is something I don't agree with, descriptions are usually spot on.

This may also be because I am pretentious and indie and snobbish. Carry on.
MotleyJesster (12:34:04 PM): Better than moping around being all "I do not need love, I have indie music and a wind instrument!"

User avatar
Aleril
Le Rail
Posts: 2279
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 5:06 pm UTC
Location: Don't make me slap you.

Re: Pitchfork needs to get Pitchforked

Postby Aleril » Fri Feb 15, 2008 5:11 pm UTC

Wow, these are the same feeling I feel towards Christgau, the pretentious cock that he is.
Image

User avatar
thefiddler
The Fora's Prophetess
Posts: 4041
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 3:07 am UTC
Location: The-middle-of-bumfuck-nowhere

Re: Pitchfork needs to get Pitchforked

Postby thefiddler » Fri Feb 15, 2008 5:22 pm UTC

I don't like Pitchfork. I really, really don't like Pitchfork.

They celebrate unknown bands by making them popular a la Pitchfork Music Festival.

And as soon as people like said band, they stop liking them.

WHAT THE FUCK, GUYS?

User avatar
Aleril
Le Rail
Posts: 2279
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 5:06 pm UTC
Location: Don't make me slap you.

Re: Pitchfork needs to get Pitchforked

Postby Aleril » Fri Feb 15, 2008 5:27 pm UTC

thefiddler wrote:I don't like Pitchfork. I really, really don't like Pitchfork.

They celebrate unknown bands by making them popular a la Pitchfork Music Festival.

And as soon as people like said band, they stop liking them.

WHAT THE FUCK, GUYS?


This is why I tend to ignore music reviews, because you cant really rate music.

If you enjoy it, listen to it. And if Pitchfork says it's bad, fuck 'em.
Image

User avatar
Izawwlgood
WINNING
Posts: 18686
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:55 pm UTC
Location: There may be lovelier lovelies...

Re: Pitchfork needs to get Pitchforked

Postby Izawwlgood » Fri Feb 15, 2008 5:29 pm UTC

I dunno, ever read... ROLLING STONE? They do a fantastic job reviewing music, musicians, the industry, and check most of their pretensions at the door.
... with gigantic melancholies and gigantic mirth, to tread the jeweled thrones of the Earth under his sandalled feet.

User avatar
Aleril
Le Rail
Posts: 2279
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 5:06 pm UTC
Location: Don't make me slap you.

Re: Pitchfork needs to get Pitchforked

Postby Aleril » Fri Feb 15, 2008 5:48 pm UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:I dunno, ever read... ROLLING STONE? They do a fantastic job reviewing music, musicians, the industry, and check most of their pretensions at the door.


I guess I have trouble being told what I should and shouldnt listen to.

If I hear of a band, I check them out on Youtube.
Image

User avatar
Izawwlgood
WINNING
Posts: 18686
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:55 pm UTC
Location: There may be lovelier lovelies...

Re: Pitchfork needs to get Pitchforked

Postby Izawwlgood » Fri Feb 15, 2008 7:02 pm UTC

Hmm! Thats interesting, I'd say 80% of my musical interests are from recommendations from friends and then checking out what else the musician has. I don't do much seeking music on my own, but I listen to an ass ton of music.

Music reviews for me usually get read as "Hmm, i'll have to listen for that next time I pop the album" or "I've sent you a dead mouse in an envelop because thats what I thought of your review"
... with gigantic melancholies and gigantic mirth, to tread the jeweled thrones of the Earth under his sandalled feet.

User avatar
Clumpy
Posts: 1883
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 4:48 am UTC
Contact:

Re: Pitchfork needs to get Pitchforked

Postby Clumpy » Sat Feb 16, 2008 1:32 am UTC

Aleril wrote:Wow, these are the same feeling I feel towards Christgau, the pretentious cock that he is.


I'm not a fan of him either, not really because of his contrarian reviews (though he consistently trashes the albums that I love), but because of the one-sentence putdowns he throws at them. He reviews a band's entire discography in one little sentence and seems to give little thought to his reviews.

Seriously, I don't like Christgau or his friends at Rolling Stone because they do the same thing. They gave Linkin Park's new album four stars, for crying out loud. They suck up to Bob Dylan the way Pitchfork does to Radiohead.

Angelene
relax, I'll handle the zippers
Posts: 2132
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 9:29 am UTC

Re: Pitchfork needs to get Pitchforked

Postby Angelene » Sun Feb 17, 2008 2:04 am UTC

I don't tend to rate reviewing bodies as much as I do individual reviews...with the exception of Stylus which I absolutely adored, and the demise of which left me rather heartbroken. I prefer to read reviews once I have my mind made up, because I tend to flip flop with my opinions and I'm far too easily influenced, but once I've made a decision as regards a release then I tend to feel confident enough to read a review and agree/disagree with it, no matter how well written it may be, although there have been occasion where a really well written review has deepened my love for an album...case in point, Ben Wilson's review of Aurora.

And, I'm sorry, but I don't really like The Onion much.
"Some people need a red carpet rolled out in front of them in order to walk forward into friendship. They can't see the tiny outstretched hands all around them, everywhere, like leaves on trees."

SomeoneElse
Posts: 235
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:09 pm UTC
Location: England
Contact:

Re: Pitchfork needs to get Pitchforked

Postby SomeoneElse » Sun Feb 17, 2008 2:14 am UTC

Angelene wrote:with the exception of Stylus which I absolutely adored, and the demise of which left me rather heartbroken.


Good god, i'm inobservant.. I didn't realise Stylus had finished - Guess I missed all the "goodbye" articles.. I had been RSSing them, and it didnt register in my head that I stopped getting new articles. :(

User avatar
Goatboy
may become less boring.
Posts: 709
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2007 3:03 am UTC
Contact:

Re: Pitchfork needs to get Pitchforked

Postby Goatboy » Tue Feb 19, 2008 8:59 pm UTC

I..I, erm, write for a music blog. I think we're pretty good.[/sheepish]. Seriously, though, it's mostly a way for Jen (my cohort) and I to vent our excitement about music. And, hey, Mp3s! Am I right?
I have nothing to offer anybody except my own confusion.
And some old pictures.

User avatar
Eitel
Posts: 50
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 5:55 am UTC

Re: Pitchfork needs to get Pitchforked

Postby Eitel » Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:49 am UTC

Pitchfork are like NME, they praise unknown bands and then shun them as soon as they become popular. (Of course barring any bands to come from Manchester.) I mean Pitchfork wouldn't be bad if they weren't constantly comparing everything to Radiohead or the Beatles.
Image

User avatar
damienthebloody
the most metal thing EVER
Posts: 2370
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2007 2:25 pm UTC
Location: under a rock

Re: Pitchfork needs to get Pitchforked

Postby damienthebloody » Wed Feb 20, 2008 9:16 am UTC

Izawwlgood wrote:Pitchfork to me sums one of the problems with those less open minded of the emo/indie music scene: "Whats this! Someone else likes it! It must suck! Wait! It sounds like radiohead? I must love it, because everyone else does!"

um...

so? surely it can't matter to you that much that other people are silly?
German Sausage wrote:Is that an EMP in your pants, or are you just outraged by my sexist behaviour?
liza wrote:When life gives you a wife made of salt, make margaritas?
Dance like you're stamping on a human face forever.

User avatar
no-genius
Seemed like a good idea at the time
Posts: 4221
Joined: Wed May 17, 2006 6:32 pm UTC
Location: UK
Contact:

Re: Pitchfork needs to get Pitchforked

Postby no-genius » Wed Feb 20, 2008 11:28 am UTC

Besides, the Beatles totally ripped off radiohead. I hate it when Lennon does his whole Thom Yorke thing.
I don't sing, I just shout. All. On. One. Note.
Official ironmen you are free, champions officially

The Mighty Thesaurus wrote:Why? It does nothing to address dance music's core problem: the fact that it sucks.

User avatar
Endless Mike
Posts: 3204
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2007 3:04 pm UTC

Re: Pitchfork needs to get Pitchforked

Postby Endless Mike » Wed Feb 20, 2008 4:51 pm UTC

I don't like Pitchfork because one time they tried to take over a forum I post at.

1hitcombo
Posts: 137
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 4:20 pm UTC
Location: Missoura

Re: Pitchfork needs to get Pitchforked

Postby 1hitcombo » Thu Feb 21, 2008 7:14 pm UTC

So where do you guys get your music news / reviews?

User avatar
Izawwlgood
WINNING
Posts: 18686
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:55 pm UTC
Location: There may be lovelier lovelies...

Re: Pitchfork needs to get Pitchforked

Postby Izawwlgood » Thu Feb 21, 2008 7:26 pm UTC

Friends. My own opinion? Rolling stone I like the most as far as publications go.
... with gigantic melancholies and gigantic mirth, to tread the jeweled thrones of the Earth under his sandalled feet.

User avatar
TheAmazingRando
Posts: 2308
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 9:58 am UTC
Location: San Diego, CA

Re: Pitchfork needs to get Pitchforked

Postby TheAmazingRando » Thu Feb 21, 2008 7:54 pm UTC

Not to be too much of an ad, but as far as where I find my music:
http://www.rateyourmusic.com
Rate your albums, find people who share your opinions on them, see what else they like. Or just read the reviews on different albums and look at their overall ratings.
I find music mainly through that site, either directly or through friends who find music through it.

I find that pitchfork's reviews are much more helpful than the ratings, because even if they reach a different conclusion their descriptions can be fairly accurate (when they do actually describe the album and not just rant about how pretentious it is, in which case I will probably like it anyway).

User avatar
aion7
Posts: 1142
Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2007 1:43 am UTC
Location: In a base with which you identify, killing dudes to whose team you belong

Re: Pitchfork needs to get Pitchforked

Postby aion7 » Fri Feb 22, 2008 1:14 am UTC

The Onion is awesome. Music reviews are generally useless. I find new musicians with Pandora Radio, then check out some of their other stuff with Google Video.
Spoiler:
Zeroignite wrote:And you have suddenly become awesome.

joshz wrote:Oh, you so win.

internets++ for aion7.

jerdak wrote:Nothing says hello like a coconut traveling near the speed of light.

User avatar
Ren
Rockin' Robin
Posts: 2933
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2007 3:06 pm UTC
Location: Kitchener, Ontario
Contact:

Re: Pitchfork needs to get Pitchforked

Postby Ren » Fri Feb 22, 2008 4:20 am UTC

Really? I get most of my new music from the Hype Machine, which led me to the music blogs I now read religiously: Said the Gramophone, i (heart) music, and You Ain't No Picasso. I also listen to the CBC Radio 3 Podcasts. They are fantastically wonderful.
MotleyJesster (12:34:04 PM): Better than moping around being all "I do not need love, I have indie music and a wind instrument!"

User avatar
Aleril
Le Rail
Posts: 2279
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 5:06 pm UTC
Location: Don't make me slap you.

Re: Pitchfork needs to get Pitchforked

Postby Aleril » Fri Feb 22, 2008 4:56 am UTC

The one place I usually go for for music reviews is Metacritic.

That usually goes for everything else.
Image

User avatar
Unbeknown
Posts: 64
Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2007 6:52 am UTC
Location: Perth, Western Australia

Re: Pitchfork needs to get Pitchforked

Postby Unbeknown » Fri Feb 22, 2008 9:29 am UTC


User avatar
someguy
Posts: 486
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2007 11:43 pm UTC

Re: Pitchfork needs to get Pitchforked

Postby someguy » Fri Feb 22, 2008 11:39 am UTC

Angelene wrote:I don't tend to rate reviewing bodies as much as I do individual reviews...with the exception of Stylus which I absolutely adored, and the demise of which left me rather heartbroken.

Man, not Stylus :cry:. I didn't know they'd closed shop. I used to really enjoy their 'On Second Thought' series for some reason...

Pitchfork need to be buried in a flaming Toyota Corolla at the bottom of the ocean.
aleflamedyud wrote:Plenty of people have confidence without any base of actual virtue or accomplishment beneath it. We call these people "douchebags".


User avatar
thefiddler
The Fora's Prophetess
Posts: 4041
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 3:07 am UTC
Location: The-middle-of-bumfuck-nowhere

Re: Pitchfork needs to get Pitchforked

Postby thefiddler » Sat Feb 23, 2008 4:06 pm UTC

1hitcombo wrote:So where do you guys get your music news / reviews?

Wait, people actually read stuff other people write?

Dang.

I tend to stumble across music on my own or let other people suggest bands to me and then I formulate my own opinion. I don't need other people telling me how to think.

1hitcombo
Posts: 137
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 4:20 pm UTC
Location: Missoura

Re: Pitchfork needs to get Pitchforked

Postby 1hitcombo » Sun Feb 24, 2008 6:02 am UTC

thefiddler wrote: I don't need other people telling me how to think.


Reviews only tell you how to think if all you look at are scores.

User avatar
Marbas
Posts: 1169
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2007 4:01 am UTC
Location: Down down down at the bottom of the sea
Contact:

Re: Pitchfork needs to get Pitchforked

Postby Marbas » Sun Feb 24, 2008 10:44 am UTC

I tend to find out about a band by word of mouth then form my own opinion.

Finding reviews for the type of "music" I like is kind of hard and not worth it. Though there is always Heathen Harvest.
Jahoclave wrote:Do you have any idea how much more fun the holocaust is with "Git er Done" as the catch phrase?

User avatar
Ren
Rockin' Robin
Posts: 2933
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2007 3:06 pm UTC
Location: Kitchener, Ontario
Contact:

Re: Pitchfork needs to get Pitchforked

Postby Ren » Tue Feb 26, 2008 4:08 pm UTC

thefiddler wrote:
1hitcombo wrote:So where do you guys get your music news / reviews?

Wait, people actually read stuff other people write?

Dang.

I tend to stumble across music on my own or let other people suggest bands to me and then I formulate my own opinion. I don't need other people telling me how to think.


I don't think that's...quite the point. Reading music blogs, and Pitchfork, and reviews and so on is like having people who listen to a lot of music suggest bands to you. Often presented in a well-written format.

Or a *totally amazing* format, á la Said the Gramophone. Like, here is a review of a song by Andy Swan, called "The Truth About Thieves."
Said the Gramophone wrote:It's an unaccustomed jubilance in this amber-streaked folk song; Andy Swan finds the kind of melody he's not used to finding, the sort of love-story that doesn't usually come his way. "It seems impossible / or just improbable / that you waited your whole life / to love the likes of me." Like he can't get over the fact that he gets to use this jangle, this jangle, the happiest looking-glass kind. Like he can't get over the fact that he put the telescope to his eyes, pointed it out over the city, and found someone signalling to him from their roof - flashing the lights of her apartment on & off & on, the easiest Morse code.


And the *whole blog* is like that.
Um, I'm kind of a hardcore fan of them. So...*shuts up*
MotleyJesster (12:34:04 PM): Better than moping around being all "I do not need love, I have indie music and a wind instrument!"

User avatar
Midnight
Posts: 2170
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2007 3:53 am UTC
Location: Twixt hither and thither. Ergo, Jupiter.

Re: Pitchfork needs to get Pitchforked

Postby Midnight » Sun Mar 02, 2008 7:19 pm UTC

pitchfork gave Neutral Milk Hotel's "In an Aeroplane Over the Sea" a 7.8 or something like that.

Then they got a good ten thousand or so complaints and they changed it to a ten, lol.
uhhhh fuck.

User avatar
Clumpy
Posts: 1883
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 4:48 am UTC
Contact:

Re: Pitchfork needs to get Pitchforked

Postby Clumpy » Tue Mar 04, 2008 1:34 am UTC

I've written for Sputnikmusic for years. I got up to #6 or so in the site rankings before I slowed down. I have something like 200K hits now, altogether, which totally astounds me every time I think about it. This is particularly strange when you consider that my main blog just baaarely passed 5,000 hits, whereas my top Sputnik review (For SOAD's "Toxicity") has more than 25,000 hits.

I read Metacritic, Pitchforkmedia, I Guess I'm Floating and Stereogum. Metacritic is the most useful, Pitchfork the most entertaining.

User avatar
scrt_rbt_agnt
douche bag
Posts: 865
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 8:48 pm UTC
Location: the great secrets of space
Contact:

Re: Pitchfork needs to get Pitchforked

Postby scrt_rbt_agnt » Thu Mar 06, 2008 2:10 am UTC

pitchfork is just a media and information resource who have writers that have opinions. some of the writers have decent opinions, some don't. that's just how it goes.

also, i read some music blogs as well as pitchfork because i am a music junkie and i like to know about crap before everyone.
i am a poet and an artist

i don't wanna worry about dyin'
i just wanna worry about sunshine girls

User avatar
INRI
Posts: 19
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 5:17 pm UTC
Location: The Middle Distance

Re: Pitchfork needs to get Pitchforked

Postby INRI » Thu Mar 06, 2008 6:22 pm UTC

Pitchfork is the same as every music magazine in my opinion: They have their favourite bands which they do to death, and then fans love them and non-fans hate them. Kerrang is exactly the same. They may of changed back by now [although I doubt it] but they hammer to hell shite like MCR/FOB/PATD/That shite, but they do that with every "in scene" because they have little to no integrity, in all honesty. Which, I suppose, is a bit like Pitchfork. Personally, the only music mag I read much these days is Terrorizer [Extreme/Metal mag, Uk based] because it helps me get more into a music scene I like, but is very hard to find out about new bands, releases and such. I don't tend to read much into reviews, though, atleast the scores. I read the review itself and if it sounds like it interests me, I'll hit myspace/youtube/torrent.

Also; Does anyone not find real high review scores... well, dubious? We already know about game companies buying out websites for good reviews, and I think the music industry is just as, if not more, desperate.


Return to “Music”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests