Weezer, fans, anti-fans, newcomers. All are welcome.

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Weezer, fans, anti-fans, newcomers. All are welcome.

Postby cArebEarStare » Thu Apr 02, 2009 8:27 am UTC

Weezer has produced exactly two SPECTACULAR albums, Blue and Pinkerton; one very good album, Green; one mediocre album, Maladroit; two horrendously, diabolically, disgustingly, and unspeakably bad albums, Make Believe and Red.

There are give or take (depending on my mood) four good singles you can squeeze from the last two, but they have none of the poignancy of Pinkerton, nor the reminiscent value of the Blue album

Discuss.

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Re: Weezer, fans, anti-fans, newcomers. All are welcome.

Postby Orsa » Thu Apr 02, 2009 3:33 pm UTC

Hey now, that's a little harsh for Red, don't you think? The first half of the album was phenomenal, I thought. It's too bad it started to blow after Dreamin'.

Anyway, I agree that Make Believe is ugh. Worst album BY FAR. I can't even listen to more than three tracks of it at a time.

Mala I still haven't listened all the way through. Dope Nose and Keep Fishin' are great though.

Green is meh. As with Red, I love the first half of the album, but then it starts to go down. I know everyone praises Smile and O Girlfriend, but I just find them meh.

Pinkerton is AMAZING. I have probably listened to it 20 times since I bought it in December and it still isn't boring. It's in my top 5 albums.

Blue is also really good, just not Pinkerton quality. It's another one I can just listen straight through. If it was Pinkerton length, I think I'd listen to it more often.

I think my top 5 Weezer songs are:

1.) Butterfly
2.) Only in Dreams
3.) Say It Ain't So
4.) Across the Sea
5.) Falling For You

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Re: Weezer, fans, anti-fans, newcomers. All are welcome.

Postby cArebEarStare » Thu Apr 02, 2009 5:13 pm UTC

It might be a little harsh, but Rivers diserves it. It's like he only had x number of good lyrics to write, and he used them all up in the first two albums he wrote.

What bothers me most about the red album is the ego that the lyrics and style of the album represent. Now that he's a big rock star with a harvard degree, he feels like he's the pipin' hot shit, but the fact that he wasn't, the fact that he just got shat on by girls all the time, was what made Pinkerton and Blue so good.

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Re: Weezer, fans, anti-fans, newcomers. All are welcome.

Postby charliepanayi » Thu Apr 02, 2009 6:54 pm UTC

I think it's a little harsh on Make Believe and Red, which have a few good songs between them (The Greatest Man That Ever Lived is terrific, apart from the rubbish spoken word bit), but I largely agree with this consensus. Blue and Pinkerton are both brilliant, though Blue edges it for me by virtue of having Only in Dreams, one of all-time favourite closing tracks. But then Pinkerton does have Pink Triangle...amazing to think that Pinkerton wasn't that well received at the time (2nd worst album of 1996 according to Rolling Stone!). Crazy really.

Green is rather underrated. A real shame Rivers Cuomo pretty much went off the rails after that. There's still flashes of what made them great on the subsequent records, but they're frustratingly brief.

And let's not talk about We Are All on Drugs...
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Re: Weezer, fans, anti-fans, newcomers. All are welcome.

Postby Cathode Ray Sunshine » Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:18 pm UTC

Blue and Pinkerton are fantastic. Green I liked very much. Maladroit and Make Believe are so so, I could probably listen to a couple of tracks from each album but the rest is forgettable. The Red Album is crap. Only like 2 songs worth anything there and it's not like they're even that good.

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Postby Goatboy » Thu Apr 02, 2009 11:44 pm UTC

See, I only kind of agree with the OP. The Green Album was amazing at the time, simply because it was finally a new Weezer record after five years. But on repeated listens, it sounds to me like Rivers was just testing the waters, seeing if he could still write pop songs and trying to recover from the emotional blow of Pinkerton's critical lambasting. There are a few gems, "Smile" and "Simple Pages" among them, in my opinion, but the only way I really enjoy "Island in the Sun" anymore is when it's mashed up with "Yeah!" by Usher.
Maladroit, on the other hand, has really grown on me. "Death and Destruction," "Burndt Jamb" and "American Gigolo" are great, unique songs that display Rivers' guitar skills far more than any of the half-hearted solos on Green.
But I will agree that only the first half of the Red Album is good at all. Of course, I may just need time.
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Re: Weezer, fans, anti-fans, newcomers. All are welcome.

Postby Orsa » Fri Apr 03, 2009 12:58 pm UTC

I think the problem with Green onward is the theme of the songs. If you look at Blue, about half of the songs are about love or love lost. Pinkerton is the same way, only on a much higher scale, considering what it's based on. If you look at Red, there is a grand total of one song about love. Rivers' lyrics seem to be great discussing one topic and nothing else:

I'm shakin' at your touch, I like you way too much
My baby, I'm afraid I'm falling for you
I'd do 'bout anything, to get the hell out alive
Or maybe I would rather settle down, with you.


Compared to the lyrics in Red, lyrics about love are far superior. "I'm like the mage with the magic spell", honestly.
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Postby SDIX » Fri Apr 03, 2009 1:29 pm UTC

mmmm Say it ain't so is my favorite song <3

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Re: Weezer, fans, anti-fans, newcomers. All are welcome.

Postby kaniman2 » Sun Apr 05, 2009 3:48 am UTC

Honestly, I don't like Blue that much, though I do like it. My copy of Pinkerton has withstood probably hundreds of plays by now. I also own Red, but I've only listened to it twice.
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Postby cArebEarStare » Sun Apr 05, 2009 11:33 pm UTC

As far as specific songs are concerned, my favorites are Only in Dreams, The World has Turned and Left Me Here, Pink Triangle, Tired of sex, and Getchoo.

I miss the old Rivers who got shat on by girls and played guitar in his garage. Now that he's a big rock star and has a Harvard degree he thinks he's hot shit. But he's not hot shit, and it's the very fact that he isn't and knew it that attracted me to the band in the first place.

*EDIT* Another thing that bothers me about the Red album is that all the songs are so loooong. I think that along with the subject matter really demonstrate the self-indulgence that Rivers has fallen into since the first two albums.

Anybody have anything good to say about their post-Green work?

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Postby Goatboy » Tue Apr 07, 2009 11:31 pm UTC

I did, and still do. I really like Maladroit. Sure, there are a couple of weak songs, but "Keep Fishin'" is great, and its video never fails to cheer me up. It's even got a couple of good loser in love songs, "Death and Destruction," "December," I'd even give ya "Burndt Jamb" if you asked for it. From those songs respectively we get the following lyrics:
"Every time that I call you, you find some way to ditch me,"
"Only love can ease the pain/of a boy caught in the rain/only hope will remember/burning flames in December,"
"Gothic flavour, how I miss you/if I only once could kiss you."

It's greatly overlooked, and I'll say it again. I was really surprised when I felt myself leaning away from the Green Album and realizing that Maladroit is far better, but that's how I see it.
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Re: Weezer, fans, anti-fans, newcomers. All are welcome.

Postby frogman » Wed Apr 08, 2009 2:25 pm UTC

The general rule for me is: They were much better when they were nerds.
yeah yeah yeah

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Postby Clumpy » Thu Apr 09, 2009 5:56 pm UTC

I still love the Blue Album - start to finish it never gets old. And in a vaccuum Pinkerton is also amazing, but I think I'd rather just listen to Pavement.

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Postby kaniman2 » Thu Apr 09, 2009 11:08 pm UTC

Agreed with Clumpy. Pavement was much better at anything Weezer tried to do. Except maybe catchyness.
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Postby Clumpy » Fri Apr 10, 2009 7:36 am UTC

kaniman2 wrote:Agreed with Clumpy. Pavement was much better at anything Weezer tried to do. Except maybe catchyness.


Just to clarify my preferences, with a little exaggeration:

Blue Album > Pavement > Pinkerton > Green Album > . . . > Getting your head smashed open > Everything else Weezer/River has released

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Postby This Old Town » Sat Apr 11, 2009 9:45 pm UTC

frogman wrote:The general rule for me is: They were much better when they were nerds.



They're still nerds. Just...rock and roll nerds.


Ok, that was a really bad example. I agree with OP, in that the red album was fairly bad.


I'd like to think he had some sort of higher meaning, when he sang "We are all on drugs".

But we all know he didn't
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Re: Weezer, fans, anti-fans, newcomers. All are welcome.

Postby thatguy » Sat Apr 11, 2009 9:54 pm UTC

Blue was god-damned amazing. As was Pinkerton.

As far as Red goes, I like the first half, although I think they'd be a whole lot better with a little less production value...

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Postby kaniman2 » Sun Apr 12, 2009 1:39 am UTC

My order would go:

Pavement > Pinkerton > Blue Album > Everything else Weezer has released > Getting your head smashed open > Make Believe > Vista
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Re: Weezer, fans, anti-fans, newcomers. All are welcome.

Postby Rhombulus » Sun Apr 12, 2009 5:41 pm UTC

I never got into Weezer, because I only heard the radio singles from Make Believe and maybe a few older hits. They never really stuck out to me, so I just kinda ignored 'em. I've heard endless praise of Pinkerton, so I suppose it'll go on my über-long MusicToGet.txt file.
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Re: Weezer, fans, anti-fans, newcomers. All are welcome.

Postby SkaBassist » Sun Apr 12, 2009 6:43 pm UTC

Ok, let me start by saying that Pavement != Pinkerton. There's no reason to compare them.

Personally, the album order for me goes:
Pinkerton>Blue>Red>Maladroit>Green>Make Believe

You guys are giving Green way too much credit in my opinion. In my head, I picture Rivers saying, "Hmmm... nobody liked Pinkerton" (Even though it is, in my opinion, the best album ever) "So I'm going to make the POLAR OPPOSITE and EVERYONE with like it!"

Green is trash, Make believe was worse.

As for Red, I think it was the only thing they really could have done. After Make Believe, they couldn't go back to Pinkerton or Blue, it's just been so long, so different. Maladroit is kind of an oddball, it has some so-so songs, but as an album it's pretty weak.

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Postby thatguy » Wed Apr 15, 2009 5:20 pm UTC

Thanks to this thread, I've listened to Blue and Pinkerton at least 6 time each in this last week.
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Postby cArebEarStare » Wed Apr 15, 2009 7:37 pm UTC

It seems to me that Rivers had nothing left worthwhile to sing after Pinkterton. After writing two albums that, combined, had a song that sang what I was thinking for nearly any occassion, he had nothing left except a few shallow fun songs and then to brag about how badass he is on the Red Album.

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Postby marshlight » Wed Apr 29, 2009 6:08 am UTC

Goatboy wrote:I'd even give ya "Burndt Jamb" if you asked for it.

I think I liked that song a lot better before they changed the lyrics to it (for those who were paying attention to the plethora of free downloads the summer before Maladroit was released). I actually liked a lot of the songs that didn't make that album for some reason, and was disappointed when it came out. I got into Weezer via Island in the Sun I think? But I do have to agree that Blue and Pinkerton have been the strongest releases.

cArebEarStare wrote:I miss the old Rivers who got shat on by girls and played guitar in his garage. Now that he's a big rock star and has a Harvard degree he thinks he's hot shit. But he's not hot shit, and it's the very fact that he isn't and knew it that attracted me to the band in the first place.

It never really struck me as all bravado, honestly. Given the kind of person he's been in the past and the kind of band they are, I always thought it was more of a 'how far can I take this' kind of spoof. I mean, honestly, there's no way he thought anyone was taking him seriously when he did the fake neck tattoos for the Troublemakers video. I'm sure he might like to think that's he's actually hot shit but I doubt he legitimately does.
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Re: Weezer, fans, anti-fans, newcomers. All are welcome.

Postby Goatboy » Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:50 pm UTC

SkaBassist and I have really similar theories on Green. Also, I think it's slightly incorrect to place all the blame for Red on Rivers, since it has the more involvement from the rest of the band than any other Weezer album. That really showed when I saw them last September, Rivers only sang on maybe 68% of the songs.
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Re: Weezer, fans, anti-fans, newcomers. All are welcome.

Postby 6453893 » Thu Apr 30, 2009 1:04 am UTC

I wish I could be there, many years from now, when you are doing something dull, something you do all the time, like going to the grocery or catching a bus, and you will allow your mind to wander, and reminisce on your past, wafting lazily through memory and feeling, but still not focusing on anything in particular, but a feeling will come to you then, something from your deep past, creeping, pouring into your consciousness, and then, only then, you will suddenly realize with a feeling of both ecstasy and dread that

Spoiler:
Maladroit was their best album.
.

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Postby Goatboy » Thu Apr 30, 2009 11:01 pm UTC

I likes the cut of your jib, 645.
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Re: Weezer, fans, anti-fans, newcomers. All are welcome.

Postby TotseanRefugee » Tue Sep 01, 2009 7:03 pm UTC

Perfect Situation is a pretty ok song, and it's from Make Believe.


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