Where has rock gone?

It's only cool if no one's heard of it.

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Re: Where has rock gone?

Postby Jesse » Tue Aug 24, 2010 12:01 pm UTC

I don't believe that the Beatles deserve no hype. I just find I am forced to take that position to counter the fact that everytime they get brought up on the internet everyones cocks fall out of their pants.

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Re: Where has rock gone?

Postby Dream » Tue Aug 24, 2010 2:23 pm UTC

Midnight wrote:Y'know, I realize I said they were really influential with indie rock at the very start of this thread, but now I'm looking for the place where I equated 'across the board, like a random sample from itunes or allmusic' with 'across the board--you know, interpol, death cab for cutie, MGMT...'

That's precisely what I mean. You didn't qualify your "across the board" statement, and guess what? iTunes has lots and lots of music that isn't indie rock, so I naturally assumed you meant all music, not just indie rock. And when you say they were really influential on all music, you're wrong.

Midnight wrote:My point can be summed up like this: The Chemical Brothers? "Setting Sun" is "Tomorrow Never Knows". It's practically a cover.

That song was written with Noel Gallagher. What do you expect? My point about the festival was that given the choice, tens of thousands there picked one dance act after another over one of the greatest indie bands ever. The same effect would have been seen if it were two hip hop acts, or to a lesser extent two dub acts or two blues acts. That says something about the prevalence of musics other than indie rock in pop music as a whole.

If you always limited your claims to just straight rock music, there could be a very interesting discussion about The Beatles vs The VU or Led Zeppelin or whoever, and the nature of influence aesthetically vs technically, and the effect of various acts on the industry and public expectations. But as long as your claims are so broad, they are not worth discussing because so much of music is more interested in King Tubby than Paul McCartney, or thinks Lennon was that naked hippie on the Yoko Ono poster.
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Re: Where has rock gone?

Postby Zanmanoodle » Tue Aug 24, 2010 6:43 pm UTC

Arguing about whether or not certain musical trends would never have existed without the Beatles is kind of pointless. That's like saying the light bulb would have never existed without Edison. The point is that the Beatles were the FIRST to do all that. Everything from the recording of Sgt. Pepper's to the super distortion of "Revolution" to the first use of feedback on a record at the beginning of "I Feel Fine". Not to mention being one of the first super-bands (as opposed to a single star a la Elvis, Chuck Berry, etc.) They did it FIRST. It was entirely original.

Also, yeah they had some amazing songs. A lot of them, in fact.

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Re: Where has rock gone?

Postby Jesse » Tue Aug 24, 2010 8:18 pm UTC

Beatles were the first supergroup? I thought that honour was always given to Cream.

Y'know, the guys who, along with the Jimi Hendrix Experience, influenced the likes of Led Zeppelin, Deep Purple, Rush, The Grateful Dead and Black Sabbath.

In fact, describing the Beatles as a supergroup is a bit misleading, since they went on to be indivdually famous afterwards, not before.

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Re: Where has rock gone?

Postby TheAmazingRando » Tue Aug 24, 2010 8:54 pm UTC

I'd say The Rolling Stones, the Velvet Underground, the Beach Boys, and Silver Apples (not as popular but probably twice as innovative) are probably about as influential as the Beatles. It isn't like popular music, or even rock and roll, bottlenecked with them. They had contemporaries.

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Re: Where has rock gone?

Postby Dream » Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:01 pm UTC

I agree with that list, but I'd single out The VU as being the most original as well, as opposed to innovative.

I think that's important, because you have people like Bowie listening and realising possibilities beyond anything that they were aware of before the VU did their thing. There is a very direct series of influences from The VU through Bowie to Joy Division and everyone who wished they were Joy Division. It is quite possible (even probable) that the boundaries of rock might be a lot less extensive without them. On the other hand, I'd see the Beatles' innovations and originalities as being things that would most likely have happened without them. There were so many people around them working in the same vein that the various combinations of studio technique, songwriting experiments and other things would have been discovered and popularised. I don't see the same for the Velvet's sound and innovations, simply because they would have been seen as a step backward, undoing the progress made by others. They might have been the first influential group to reject the concept of building to, adding to and growing from previous artist's work, and instead to break things down, pull them apart and try to make music from their bare bones. And that's important.
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Re: Where has rock gone?

Postby Zanmanoodle » Tue Aug 24, 2010 11:48 pm UTC

Jesse wrote:Beatles were the first supergroup? I thought that honour was always given to Cream.
Y'know, the guys who, along with the Jimi Hendrix Experience, influenced the likes of Led Zeppelin, Deep Purple, Rush, The Grateful Dead and Black Sabbath.
In fact, describing the Beatles as a supergroup is a bit misleading, since they went on to be indivdually famous afterwards, not before.



I specifically said "super-band", mostly out of lack of a better phrase. Supergroups are closer to what you described. Also, I love Cream to no end. I meant that the Beatles were on of the first rock groups (guitar, vocals, drums, etc.) to become superstars as a group, as opposed to being led by one frontman and then a few others.

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Re: Where has rock gone?

Postby Dream » Wed Aug 25, 2010 1:03 am UTC

The Shadows, and their position as the best selling singles band in the UK ever would disagree.

Can you name a single member of The Platters? Beause I bet you know Only You and The Great Pretender, and that was a decade(ish) before The Beatles.
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Re: Where has rock gone?

Postby Midnight » Thu Aug 26, 2010 7:50 am UTC

Dream wrote:
Midnight wrote:Y'know, I realize I said they were really influential with indie rock at the very start of this thread, but now I'm looking for the place where I equated 'across the board, like a random sample from itunes or allmusic' with 'across the board--you know, interpol, death cab for cutie, MGMT...'

That's precisely what I mean. You didn't qualify your "across the board" statement, and guess what? iTunes has lots and lots of music that isn't indie rock, so I naturally assumed you meant all music, not just indie rock. And when you say they were really influential on all music, you're wrong.

buh-guh-wha? When I meant all music, I meant all music. One qualifies "music" with the word "all". The problem is, you're taking that as literally as possible so you can say 'nuh-uh they didn't influence afro-cuban music' . Which is true, so I suppose a somewhat poor choice of words is my fault.

"ALL" I suppose is not the right word, when "MORE" will do. They've influenced MORE people and more bands and more genres than most anyone else. Les Paul and Bach stand out as two that were moreso, as far as all recorded music. I dunno if I'm just being monumentally dense but it seems that you're only equating the beatles with indie rock, or that they were only influential on indie rock, when indie was barely a part of this discussion, and saying that they're only influential on that genre is wrong.
Maybe you're saying they not only did they have no bearing on afro-cuban music, but I feel like (from your bands of choice) that you're saying they had no influence on electronica. This is also wrong, cause I'm not talking just about how the beatles influenced Oasis. I'm talking about how they were instrumental in the popularization of not just genre-crossover stuff that they did, but also (as just one example) the popularization of sampling. It existed before, but it took the world's most famous band to give it that level of exposure that the technique needed. Who knows, maybe a world without "Yellow Submarine" and "I Am the Walrus" is a world without Amon Tobin. I don't claim to know. You'll probably say no, Amon Tobin would exist without the Beatles. Which might be correct. It also might not.*


On a separate note, I would say that McCartney and Lennon were definitely frontmen. I don't think Ringo even got knighted like Sir Paul did.


*We don't know. That's the thing. You said that a lot of the things the Beatles did (crazy tape modulation, as another example) was bound to happen anyways, but we don't know. People were befuddled over planetary orbits for a long, long time until Kepler finally tried ellipses. Yeah, with the amount of effort going into figuring out planets, it's highly probable that someone would've figured out elliptical orbits without Kepler, but he did, so we give him credit where credit is due. Just because someone else might've figured it out doesn't mean it's a lesser achievement for the person or people who actually did.
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Re: Where has rock gone?

Postby Dream » Thu Aug 26, 2010 9:12 am UTC

Midnight wrote:It existed before, but it took the world's most famous band to give it that level of exposure that the technique needed. Who knows, maybe a world without "Yellow Submarine" and "I Am the Walrus" is a world without Amon Tobin. I don't claim to know. You'll probably say no, Amon Tobin would exist without the Beatles. Which might be correct. It also might not.*
Midnight wrote:*We don't know.

No, you don't know, which isn't the same thing. You seem to not be familiar enough with the history of recorded music to be certain, but it is not an uncertain issue. People like Pierre Schaeffer and Iannis Xenakis were doing far more with tape and studio effects than the Beatles ever did, long before the Beatles ever did anything. You think it takes a band as famous as The Beatles to popularise these things, but you're wrong. People like The Bealtes and all of their peers are usually voracious learners of music. They'll find out everything about different musics and work out how it's done in order to do it themselves. World renowned composers like Schaeffer and Xenakis might be unknown to you, and therefore there might be a question in your head as to whether people would have been using found sound in their recordings without The Beatles to facilitate it, but seriously, there isn't a question over this. It was a well established principle before George Martin came to it.
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Re: Where has rock gone?

Postby Sheikh al-Majaneen » Mon Aug 30, 2010 2:40 am UTC

sje46 wrote:
Internetmeme wrote:Why? Why can't there be actually decent rock nowadays?
The eighties happened.

Maybe that's not fair of me, though.

It really isn't. I used to think the same way about the eighties, until I discovered Echo and the Bunnymen. You should listen to their albums Crocodiles and Ocean Rain now (but not anything made by them since the eighties; their music became insipid some time before they released Evergreen).

There was some awful music in the 80s, yes, but the awfulness is what inspired some of the great music of the late 80s and early 90s, much of which hearkened back to the days from the 60s you talk about later in your post; Nirvana is quite possibly the dullest of them. Pearl Jam is well known, and still making music; Screaming Trees were IMO perhaps the best of the psychedelic bands of the late 80s and 90s. Screaming Trees' lead singer Mark Lanegan, if that name is familiar to you (and if not it should be), is still making solo albums and collaborations. His collaborative records with Greg Dulli of the Afghan Whigs, under the name of the Gutter Twins, is amazing downtempo dark depressing music which does not sound like anything else coming out today, and not much of the yesteryears.

Of course, Mark Lanegan and Greg Dulli are established musicians from the 90s (and the ninetiesness shows through in the Gutter Twins, but that, for me, is not a negative, any more than influence from the music of an older decade would be), but their established position just means they can make exactly what they want--and they do.

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Re: Where has rock gone?

Postby Pez Dispens3r » Mon Aug 30, 2010 3:13 am UTC

Sheikh al-Majaneen wrote:
sje46 wrote:The eighties happened.

Maybe that's not fair of me, though.

It really isn't. I used to think the same way about the eighties, until I discovered Echo and the Bunnymen. You should listen to their albums Crocodiles and Ocean Rain now (but not anything made by them since the eighties; their music became insipid some time before they released Evergreen).

There was some awful music in the 80s, yes, but the awfulness is what inspired some of the great music of the late 80s and early 90s, much of which hearkened back to the days from the 60s you talk about later in your post; Nirvana is quite possibly the dullest of them.

I don't think anyone seriously denigrates the 80s, or at least anyone with a sound appreciation of music. Some of the most powerful bands came out of the post-punk minimalism of the era, including (but not limited to) Joy Division, Sonic Youth, Bauhaus, The Pixies, and The Smiths. And it was similarly a big decade for hip hop, pop, metal, hardcore, ska, and a bunch of other genres I'm forgetting or have less interest in. This didn't come out of awfulness, but came from ingenuity and experimentation tempered with talent and passion.
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Re: Where has rock gone?

Postby Sheikh al-Majaneen » Mon Aug 30, 2010 3:29 am UTC

Pez Dispens3r wrote:I don't think anyone seriously denigrates the 80s, or at least anyone with a sound appreciation of music. Some of the most powerful bands came out of the post-punk minimalism of the era, including (but not limited to) Joy Division, Sonic Youth, Bauhaus, The Pixies, and The Smiths. And it was similarly a big decade for hip hop, pop, metal, hardcore, ska, and a bunch of other genres I'm forgetting or have less interest in. This didn't come out of awfulness, but came from ingenuity and experimentation tempered with talent and passion.

sje seemed to have been. As for all those genres you've mentioned, I've never really looked into them, beyond alternative, grunge, and shoegaze (which you didn't mention, but they were kinda popular, for a few minutes, except for alternative which has become mostly corporate and often cookie-cutter boring for the most part).

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Re: Where has rock gone?

Postby sje46 » Mon Aug 30, 2010 3:51 am UTC

Pez Dispens3r wrote:
Sheikh al-Majaneen wrote:
sje46 wrote:The eighties happened.

Maybe that's not fair of me, though.

It really isn't. I used to think the same way about the eighties, until I discovered Echo and the Bunnymen. You should listen to their albums Crocodiles and Ocean Rain now (but not anything made by them since the eighties; their music became insipid some time before they released Evergreen).

There was some awful music in the 80s, yes, but the awfulness is what inspired some of the great music of the late 80s and early 90s, much of which hearkened back to the days from the 60s you talk about later in your post; Nirvana is quite possibly the dullest of them.

I don't think anyone seriously denigrates the 80s, or at least anyone with a sound appreciation of music. Some of the most powerful bands came out of the post-punk minimalism of the era, including (but not limited to) Joy Division, Sonic Youth, Bauhaus, The Pixies, and The Smiths. And it was similarly a big decade for hip hop, pop, metal, hardcore, ska, and a bunch of other genres I'm forgetting or have less interest in. This didn't come out of awfulness, but came from ingenuity and experimentation tempered with talent and passion.

I can denigrate any kind of music I feel like. I have heard very few songs from the 80s I've liked. And no bands or genres that I like. Does that mean I suck at music? Maybe you suck because you like 80s bands, I dunno. I'm not denigrating anything. I just don't like anything about it.
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Re: Where has rock gone?

Postby Pez Dispens3r » Mon Aug 30, 2010 4:18 am UTC

sje46 wrote:I can denigrate any kind of music I feel like.

I never implied you couldn't.

sje46 wrote:Does that mean I suck at music? Maybe you suck because you like 80s bands, I dunno.

I don't think any of this means you suck at music, I just don't think your tastes are very broad.

sje46 wrote:I'm not denigrating anything. I just don't like anything about it.

So I take it that although you feel you can exercise the option at any time, you're not doing so at this moment? I'm sorry if I read "good music can't exist today because of the eighties" to imply you were being unreasonably critical of the eighties. I must have misunderstood your intent.
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Re: Where has rock gone?

Postby sje46 » Mon Aug 30, 2010 4:33 am UTC

When I said "the eighties happened", I did not mean that seriously. I admitted to my faults in regards to my narrow taste in music. Also, I just generally think it's silly to talk about what music is good and what music is bad. I just like what I like, really. That's all I'm saying.
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Re: Where has rock gone?

Postby Pez Dispens3r » Mon Aug 30, 2010 4:40 am UTC

Yes, that's why I said "I don't think anyone seriously denigrates the 80s". And although I agree it's never going to be fruitful trying to make other people share your likes and dislikes, it does not mean the concepts of musical appreciation and criticism are silly. I don't have to like Michael Jackson to appreciate him or value his contribution to pop.
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Re: Where has rock gone?

Postby vaguelyhumanoid » Wed Sep 01, 2010 8:51 pm UTC

Dream wrote:So, you point out that you definitely, 100% don't mean "not popular or charting", but "actually underground". Then you cite for this: Tomahawk.

I'm just throwing this out there, but you have no idea what underground means. At all. In fact, showing a Tomahawk TV spot proves the opposite of your point very well, in that it's excellent music that isn't underground at all, but that tours internationally and gets TV spots with four cameras and a live studio audience. So, good music hasn't gone underground. You're wrong.


I wasn't thinking at the time... especially considering that I like some unabashedly mainstream stuff, up to and including Lady Gaga.
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Re: Where has rock gone?

Postby bonzoWhale » Sat Sep 04, 2010 5:36 pm UTC

Well I'm gonna chip in and say that, if you want awesome rock like the good ole days, for me, the best, no doubt, are The Raconteurs. Whiny Jack-haters are missing out on quite possibly one of the most engaging rock albums of our times.

That being said, it's not the only thing out there... if you want raw rock we have Them Crooked Vultures or The Black Keys. Feeling proggy? Beardfish. If you wanna go retro and beatles-like Swedish band Mando Diao will do the trick. Miss Sabbath? Listen to Early Man. And if you just wanna have some fun, The Fratellis.

I could talk about a hundred awesome rock bands. I think good rock isn't gone, it's just hiding (mostly in Sweden).

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Re: Where has rock gone?

Postby Spacem4nSpiff » Tue Sep 14, 2010 2:06 am UTC

Though i support a broad taste for music, a wide variety doesn't mean you enjoy it all. But i would still like to add : Angels & Airwaves is THE bomb.

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Re: Where has rock gone?

Postby crystal_owl » Sun Sep 19, 2010 6:00 pm UTC

Question for those who know rock - I'm wanting to try out some Led Zeppelin and see how I like it, which album would be a good one to start with? My current favourite rock album is Rage Against the Machine if that's at all relevant.
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Re: Where has rock gone?

Postby Midnight » Sun Sep 19, 2010 9:09 pm UTC

crystal_owl wrote:Question for those who know rock - I'm wanting to try out some Led Zeppelin and see how I like it, which album would be a good one to start with? My current favourite rock album is Rage Against the Machine if that's at all relevant.

Could just go with Mothership, that's their best-of collection.
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Re: Where has rock gone?

Postby sje46 » Mon Sep 20, 2010 2:17 am UTC

crystal_owl wrote:Question for those who know rock - I'm wanting to try out some Led Zeppelin and see how I like it, which album would be a good one to start with? My current favourite rock album is Rage Against the Machine if that's at all relevant.

Led Zeppelin 4, I suppose. That's their most famous one. That, or Led Zeppelin 1.
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Re: Where has rock gone?

Postby The EGE » Mon Sep 20, 2010 2:44 am UTC

crystal_owl wrote:Question for those who know rock - I'm wanting to try out some Led Zeppelin and see how I like it, which album would be a good one to start with? My current favourite rock album is Rage Against the Machine if that's at all relevant.


4 has songs you will recognize. Stairway to Heaven for sure, and others like Black Dog and When the Levee Breaks.

2 Is quite possibly them rocking out the hardest.

Physical Graffiti is also excellent.

Mothership is also good, as a collection of their most famous songs.
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Re: Where has rock gone?

Postby crystal_owl » Mon Sep 20, 2010 6:21 pm UTC

Cheers guys. I'll have a listen to Mothership - might as well start with what they consider their best stuff.
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Re: Where has rock gone?

Postby SirMustapha » Tue Sep 21, 2010 12:54 am UTC

Check out their fourth if you want to experience coma ("Battle of Evermore") and listen to some incredibly insipid filler ("Rock and Roll", "Misty Mountain Hop", "Four Sticks")! It's that awesome!

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Re: Where has rock gone?

Postby Midnight » Tue Sep 21, 2010 4:09 am UTC

SirMustapha wrote:and listen to some incredibly insipid filler ("Rock and Roll", "Misty Mountain Hop", "Four Sticks")!

BRUH BUH WHA HM? "insipid" has farrr too negative a connotation for those songs, because those songs are unilaterally considered Dope Fresh.
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Re: Where has rock gone?

Postby SecondTalon » Tue Sep 21, 2010 4:09 pm UTC

I, too, share your complete flabbergastment, Midnight.

Rock and Roll.. insipid?
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Re: Where has rock gone?

Postby SirMustapha » Tue Sep 21, 2010 5:47 pm UTC

Unimaginative guitar riff, drums that make every instrument pretty much inaudible, generic and obnoxious screaming by Robert Plant... hmm, yeah, "insipid" seems inadequate for a song that tastes like shit.

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Re: Where has rock gone?

Postby Dream » Tue Sep 21, 2010 6:18 pm UTC

SirMustapha wrote:drums that make every instrument pretty much inaudible

Maybe your speakers are broken?
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Re: Where has rock gone?

Postby Midnight » Tue Sep 21, 2010 6:36 pm UTC

Robert Plant whines over every single song. It's his thing. Have you heard "babe I'm gonna leave you"?
Every Led Zeppelin song has loud fucking drumming, because bonham was famous for drumming Loud As Fuck. Why was he famous for it? Because he was LOUD AS FUCK. They didn't let him have two bass drums cause he drowned everyone out, even with marshall stacks and what have you. Dream could be right, you know--Zep did an awesome job mixing Bonham's drum sounds. The bass drum sounds great, the cymbals sound great, the drums sound great in general. I have never considered them too loud.
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Re: Where has rock gone?

Postby The EGE » Tue Sep 21, 2010 7:52 pm UTC

SirMustapha: Go listen to 'Moby Dick', off II. John Bonham being epic. When he played it in concert, it would last as long as 30 minutes. When he broke his sticks, he would throw them into the audience. Then play with his hands until he drew blood. When you don't hear anything else but him, you'll be rather impressed by just how good the guy is.

Then listen to 'Babe I'm Gonna Leave You' off Led Zeppelin (I). Impressive guitar work, and some of Plant's best singing. Yes, the guy sounds like a stork. But he's still an impressive singer.

Then, 'Achilles Last Stand' off Presence.

If you can listen to that and feel anything but awe, then you're probably an android.

Yes, IV has some of the more over played songs, especially StH. But do not ever call them insipid.
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Re: Where has rock gone?

Postby SecondTalon » Tue Sep 21, 2010 8:18 pm UTC

SirMustapha wrote:Unimaginative guitar riff, drums that make every instrument pretty much inaudible, generic and obnoxious screaming by Robert Plant... hmm, yeah, "insipid" seems inadequate for a song that tastes like shit.

Okay, counterexample time. What's a rock song that is more to your liking? What's an inspired tune in the vein of guitars'n'bass'n'drums'n'optional extras?
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Re: Where has rock gone?

Postby cjmcjmcjmcjm » Wed Sep 22, 2010 6:21 am UTC

Midnight wrote:Zep did an awesome job mixing Bonham's drum sounds. The bass drum sounds great, the cymbals sound great, the drums sound great in general. I have never considered them too loud.

Yes. I like the loud drums. Sure, they could be a bit more detailed on some songs, but have you ever heard all the ghost notes in "Stairway to Heaven"? If I get a band together, I want to get noise complaints from my concerts when we all are playing acoustic instruments (of a percussive nature, obviously - maybe with a small brass band as guest musicians).
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Re: Where has rock gone?

Postby SirMustapha » Thu Sep 23, 2010 2:43 pm UTC

Midnight wrote:Robert Plant whines over every single song. It's his thing. Have you heard "babe I'm gonna leave you"?


Yeah, and I actually like that one. Plant is, in general, obnoxious, but sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't; and when it doesn't work, it usually REALLY, DEFINITELY DOESN'T WORK AT ALL. Zeppelin's first album is very good overall, I have very little complaints.

Midnight wrote:Every Led Zeppelin song has loud fucking drumming, because bonham was famous for drumming Loud As Fuck. Why was he famous for it? Because he was LOUD AS FUCK.


Yeah, and that's why I hate him. Usually his drums are mixed alright, yes, but for some reason, in that particular song, all I hear is drums, vocals and some things whining in the background.

The EGE wrote:SirMustapha: Go listen to 'Moby Dick', off II. John Bonham being epic.


I despise that track. It's the single worst drum solo I've ever heard -- and yeah, the live versions are even worse.

The EGE wrote:Then listen to 'Babe I'm Gonna Leave You' off Led Zeppelin (I). Impressive guitar work, and some of Plant's best singing. Yes, the guy sounds like a stork--


Urgh. Bad webcomic alert.

The EGE wrote:Yes, IV has some of the more over played songs, especially StH. But do not ever call them insipid.


I didn't complain about Stairway to Heaven, I complained about the filler! And the filler in that record is awful.

SecondTalon wrote:Okay, counterexample time. What's a rock song that is more to your liking? What's an inspired tune in the vein of guitars'n'bass'n'drums'n'optional extras?


Well, there is a song also called Rock and Roll by a contemporary band called The Velvet Underground, which I consider pretty much perfect -- brilliant grooving rhythm, exciting vocals that shows that "ugly" does not always imply "horrible", great dynamics and catchy moments all over the song.

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Re: Where has rock gone?

Postby Роберт » Thu Sep 23, 2010 3:03 pm UTC

SirMustapha wrote:
SexyTalon wrote:Okay, counterexample time. What's a rock song that is more to your liking? What's an inspired tune in the vein of guitars'n'bass'n'drums'n'optional extras?


Well, there is a song also called Rock and Roll by a contemporary band called The Velvet Underground, which I consider pretty much perfect -- brilliant grooving rhythm, exciting vocals that shows that "ugly" does not always imply "horrible", great dynamics and catchy moments all over the song.

Wow. My taste music differs a lot from ya'll's. I personally think that song is horrible. (I'm listening to it now.)

I'm gonna hafta listen to Nightwish's album "Dark Passion Play" to clean out my ears.
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Re: Where has rock gone?

Postby Jesse » Thu Sep 23, 2010 6:41 pm UTC

Роберт wrote:
SirMustapha wrote:
SexyTalon wrote:Okay, counterexample time. What's a rock song that is more to your liking? What's an inspired tune in the vein of guitars'n'bass'n'drums'n'optional extras?


Well, there is a song also called Rock and Roll by a contemporary band called The Velvet Underground, which I consider pretty much perfect -- brilliant grooving rhythm, exciting vocals that shows that "ugly" does not always imply "horrible", great dynamics and catchy moments all over the song.

Wow. My taste music differs a lot from ya'll's. I personally think that song is horrible. (I'm listening to it now.)

I'm gonna hafta listen to Nightwish's album "Dark Passion Play" to clean out my ears.


I think it's difficult to get into The VU now, or at least harder than in previous decades. There's a lot that you have to learn to appreciate exactly what it is they did with music at the time. There's no fault in you for not liking it, but I think they're definitely worth trying a few more tracks.

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Re: Where has rock gone?

Postby Midnight » Fri Sep 24, 2010 2:08 am UTC

Also I dunno if that's the best song to start listening to the VU on. But I started with white light/white heat, so I dunno.
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Re: Where has rock gone?

Postby SirMustapha » Fri Sep 24, 2010 2:43 pm UTC

Jesse wrote:I think it's difficult to get into The VU now, or at least harder than in previous decades. There's a lot that you have to learn to appreciate exactly what it is they did with music at the time. There's no fault in you for not liking it, but I think they're definitely worth trying a few more tracks.


That is absolutely true for their first two (or three) albums, but Loaded is as straightforward and accessible as one can be, and Rock and Roll is meant to be absolutely catchy from the getgo, no opportunity necessary, no experience needed.

Also, as far as more examples as "straightforward rock and roll" that I like: Down in the Street by the Stooges. That's an even better example than the Velvet Underground song. Hell, the whole Fun House album makes my head spin.

I honestly think Led Zeppelin tried too hard to do more than they could. They're constantly hit and miss, and when they miss, it's musical apocalypse in the bad sense; but when they hit, it's usually brilliant.

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Re: Where has rock gone?

Postby sje46 » Fri Sep 24, 2010 4:23 pm UTC

I played Rock and Roll for my friend, but he didn't get it. Then again, he complains that Layla is just the guy going "Hey, I love you and stuff. Now listen to my 5 minute guitar solo!" and thus isn't a genuine love song. Oh, and that for a song to be good, the lyrics have to be good, and "good lyrics" doesn't include Bob Dylan, because his lyrics don't mean anything. So he only listens to Coldplay.
</rant>
Anyway, VU is great, but I'd recommend the first album, which affected me emotionally way more than it should have. Because it really isn't that emotional of an album. But whatever...it's one of my favorites. Or if you don't like that, then try their softer stuff. Think of it this way: if you don't like Run Run Run or Pale Blue Eyes, then you won't like VU. Keep in mind these songs were made in the late 60s, which blows my mind.
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