Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)

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Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)

Postby Eebster the Great » Wed Feb 28, 2018 2:46 am UTC

gone = cot and lawn = caught?

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Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)

Postby Liri » Wed Feb 28, 2018 6:52 pm UTC

For people who differentiate "Mary" and "marry," how do you do it?

I can't tell if I do or not. I think my mouth opens the most for Mary, less for marry, and least for merry, but I could just be fucking with myself and I don't know if I'd do that in conversation.
There's a certain amount of freedom involved in cycling: you're self-propelled and decide exactly where to go. If you see something that catches your eye to the left, you can veer off there, which isn't so easy in a car, and you can't cover as much ground walking.

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Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)

Postby Angua » Wed Feb 28, 2018 7:31 pm UTC

Mairy (rhyme with hairy, fairy) (Mary) Long a

Ma (as in mama) ry. Marry. Short a
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Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)

Postby flicky1991 » Wed Feb 28, 2018 8:10 pm UTC

I agree "marry" has a short "a" but that's a different sound from "mama" to me. "Marry" has the same vowels as "Nancy". "Mary"'s first syllable is homophonous with "mare" and "mayor".

*waits for someone to dispute her pronunciation of "mayor"*
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Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)

Postby Pfhorrest » Wed Feb 28, 2018 9:35 pm UTC

Didn't we just do "mayor" a little bit upthread?

(It's two syllables, for the record. Literally just "may" + "or").
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Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)

Postby flicky1991 » Wed Feb 28, 2018 9:36 pm UTC

Pfhorrest wrote:Didn't we just do "mayor" a little bit upthread?
It's not been mentioned on this thread before my post, according to the search. Different thread, maybe?
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Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)

Postby ThirdParty » Thu Mar 01, 2018 4:02 am UTC

Pfhorrest wrote:Literally just "may" + "or"
No, it isn't. It rhymes with "player".

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Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)

Postby Pfhorrest » Thu Mar 01, 2018 4:26 am UTC

"Or" sometimes rhymes with "er" (basically, when deemphasized and the 'o' becomes a schwa). E.g. "may or may not" is homophonous with "mayor may not", which in turn rhymes with "play or play not" and "player play not".
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Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)

Postby gmalivuk » Fri Mar 02, 2018 1:47 pm UTC

Angua wrote:Mairy (rhyme with hairy, fairy) (Mary) Long a

Ma (as in mama) ry. Marry. Short a

Typically I see "short a" to describe sound in mat/bad/pack, which is not the sound I'd think of for "Mama", but is for "marry".
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Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)

Postby Aiwendil » Fri Mar 02, 2018 5:17 pm UTC

Eebster the Great wrote:gone = cot and lawn = caught?


Yep.

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Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)

Postby Mega85 » Sun Apr 08, 2018 9:39 pm UTC

How do you pronounce "gonna"? I pronounce it like "gunna".

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Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)

Postby flicky1991 » Sun Apr 08, 2018 9:44 pm UTC

Pretty sure I have schwas on both syllables.
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Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)

Postby Mega85 » Sat Apr 14, 2018 1:44 pm UTC

How do you pronounce "crappie" the fish? Traditionally it is /krApi/ but a spelling pronunciation /kr{pi/ is now common.

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Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)

Postby Derek » Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:19 pm UTC

I've never heard of it. I would pronounce it based on the spelling with an /æ/.

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Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)

Postby Eebster the Great » Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:38 pm UTC

We've talked a lot about "caught," but what about "catch"? Do you pronounce it /kæt͡ʃ/ (rhyming with "match") or /kɛt͡ʃ/ (rhyming with "fetch")? For instance, the poem Jabberwocky rhymes "claws that catch" with "Bandersnatch," which wouldn't happen in my dialect.

Separately, how do you pronounce the word spelled "catsup"? I would say it identically to "ketchup," but I've also heard a more phonetic pronunciation.

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Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)

Postby freezeblade » Tue Apr 17, 2018 3:12 pm UTC

Eebster the Great wrote:We've talked a lot about "caught," but what about "catch"? Do you pronounce it /kæt͡ʃ/ (rhyming with "match") or /kɛt͡ʃ/ (rhyming with "fetch")? For instance, the poem Jabberwocky rhymes "claws that catch" with "Bandersnatch," which wouldn't happen in my dialect.

Separately, how do you pronounce the word spelled "catsup"? I would say it identically to "ketchup," but I've also heard a more phonetic pronunciation.


That line rhymes in my Dialect (coastal central California), and I pronounce ketchup very close to "catch-up"
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Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)

Postby gmalivuk » Tue Apr 17, 2018 3:36 pm UTC

In natural speech "catch" and "fetch" rhyme, but if I say it more carefully it has the latch/match/batch vowel.
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Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)

Postby Liri » Tue Apr 17, 2018 4:28 pm UTC

Catch = match/batch/latch.

People where I live don't use the word catsup, but I would pronounce it phonetically.
There's a certain amount of freedom involved in cycling: you're self-propelled and decide exactly where to go. If you see something that catches your eye to the left, you can veer off there, which isn't so easy in a car, and you can't cover as much ground walking.

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Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)

Postby flicky1991 » Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:31 pm UTC

I agree with Liri on both points.
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Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)

Postby Thesh » Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:54 pm UTC

freezeblade wrote:That line rhymes in my Dialect (coastal central California), and I pronounce ketchup very close to "catch-up"


I was raised in Southern California, and pronounce "catch" like "match," but "ketchup" rhymes with "fetch" for me.
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Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)

Postby Pfhorrest » Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:59 pm UTC

If asked out of the blue, I'd say that "catch" has the "match/latch/etc" vowel and wonder what the heck else it could be, but then there's a joke where the punchline is a "catch up"/"ketchup" pun and I've never thought twice about it, and now that I think about it I might sometimes pronounce "ketchup" as "catch up" (when the obvious pronunciation if asked out of the blue rhymes with "fetch up"), so I guess those two vowels are pretty negotiable to me (though I'd never pronounced "fetch" as "fatch", so maybe not so much).

"Catsup" I usually just pronounce "ketchup" because it's the same word, but if I feel like being technically correct I'll try to turn the "tch" in "ketchup" into a "ts" instead when it's spelled that way. Or if I feel like being funny, "cat soup".
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Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)

Postby freezeblade » Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:34 pm UTC

Thesh wrote:
freezeblade wrote:That line rhymes in my Dialect (coastal central California), and I pronounce ketchup very close to "catch-up"


I was raised in Southern California, and pronounce "catch" like "match," but "ketchup" rhymes with "fetch" for me.


This could be carried over from my father, who also does the "warsh" pronunciation of "wash."

I can pronounce "ketchup" both ways, rhyming with "fetch" or "catch," with each one sounding "right." However I think "catch" is more common for me in my spoken English.
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Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)

Postby pogrmman » Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:36 pm UTC

“Catch”/“fetch” have the same vowel for me, with “match” being distinct. Ketchup is pronounced like “catch-up”. With respect to “crappie”, I use the pronunciation with the same vowel as “crop” (I’m not sure of the transcription). That’s also how everybody I’ve ever talked to about it says it.

Then again, my accent is this sort of weird mishmash that varies pretty substantially in an unconscious manner based off of situation (for instance, I sometimes have the pin/pen merger, but other times don’t — and it varies without me consciously thinking about it). Interestingly, I’ve noticed that when I’m at home (Austin), I tend to speak fairly neutrally, but the longer I’m away at college, the more the Texan part of my accent comes out — I start saying y’all more, I move more towards the pin/pen merger, my vowels tend to exhibit some of the Southern Vowel Shift, I use sir/maam a lot more, etc... It’s completely unconscious, but it’s hilarious to me. None of my friends back home speak much like that — it’s like I start to sound like a lot of my elementary school teachers and other older people I interacted with.

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Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)

Postby ThirdParty » Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:42 am UTC

Eebster the Great wrote:what about "catch"? Do you pronounce it /kæt͡ʃ/ (rhyming with "match") or /kɛt͡ʃ/ (rhyming with "fetch")? For instance, the poem Jabberwocky rhymes "claws that catch" with "Bandersnatch," which wouldn't happen in my dialect.

Huh, interesting question. Both pronunciations seem right to me. I think maybe I tend to use /kɛt͡ʃ/ for intercepting a flying object, but /kæt͡ʃ/ for trapping an animal? Not sure.

(The sounds definitely aren't interchangeable, though. "lech" and "latch" form a minimal pair.)

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Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)

Postby Derek » Wed Apr 18, 2018 2:02 am UTC

I pronounce both "catch" and "ketchup" with /æ/, and anyone who spells it "catsup" will be burned as a heretic.

Liri wrote:People where I live don't use the word catsup, but I would pronounce it phonetically.

What do people call it then?

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Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)

Postby Liri » Wed Apr 18, 2018 2:22 am UTC

Derek wrote:I pronounce both "catch" and "ketchup" with /æ/, and anyone who spells it "catsup" will be burned as a heretic.

Liri wrote:People where I live don't use the word catsup, but I would pronounce it phonetically.

What do people call it then?

Ketchup.
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Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)

Postby Eebster the Great » Wed Apr 18, 2018 7:23 am UTC

How about "tomato sauce"? That's a synonym for ketchup in some places, right?

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Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)

Postby flicky1991 » Wed Apr 18, 2018 7:46 am UTC

I called it that as a child, but now I generally use that to mean the kind of sauces that go on pasta. I'm not sure where I picked it up from - maybe my parents called it that in the past.
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Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)

Postby Derek » Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:36 pm UTC

Liri wrote:Ketchup.

That's just the different spelling of the same word.

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Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)

Postby gmalivuk » Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:35 am UTC

Derek wrote:
Liri wrote:Ketchup.

That's just the different spelling of the same word.

Seems maybe you missed the question being replied to?
Eebster the Great wrote:
Separately, how do you pronounce the word spelled "catsup"? I would say it identically to "ketchup," but I've also heard a more phonetic pronunciation.
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Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)

Postby Mega85 » Sat Apr 21, 2018 12:19 am UTC

How do you pronounce the pizza place Sbarro? I typically hear either /səbɑɹoʊ/ or /spɑɹoʊ/ or maybe even /zbɑɹoʊ/.

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Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)

Postby Eebster the Great » Sat Apr 21, 2018 3:24 am UTC

I try to say /sbɑ:ɹoʊ/, but it usually comes out like one of those.

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Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)

Postby Mega85 » Sun Apr 22, 2018 1:22 am UTC

A pharmaceutical company apparently is guilty of having created a sixth pronunciation for the letter "x".

"aylexithymea" for "alexithymia"
This unusual scientific word is unclear as to pronunciation, but need not be.
The first problem is that the A before a single consonant at the start of the word will be seen by many readers as representing a schwa, as in "around", "about", and "apostrophe". That's not the sound here, however, which is a long-A. We could write that as AI, as in "staid", or AY, as in "plaything". Before an L, as here, however, AI would be seen as having the flat-A sound in "fail", "rail", and "airmail", so AY is the better choice.
The X is probably not a problem, even tho X can represent five different sounds (KS as in "nexus", GZ as in "exist", KSH as in "luxury", GZH as in "luxurious", and Z as in "xylem").* The default that most people will see for an X in a location like this is KS, which is correct, so we can leave it as-is.
TH could also be pronounced in more than one way, voiced, as in "this", and unvoiced (or voiceless), as in "thing". A rare reader might see the word "thy" within today's word, and think the proper sound is voiced. But again, the default that most people will see, voiceless, is correct, so we don't need even to try to clarify that sound, which is good, given that there is no way to do that in traditional spelling!
The last issue is the IA at the end of this long word. IA can be pronounced in more than one way too, within a word as long-I plus long-A ("hiatus"), or long-I plus short-A ("diameter"), or long-I plus schwa ("defiance"). At the end of a word, IA can be pronounced as long-E plus schwa ("nutria"), or the consonant Y plus schwa ("California") and even as long-I plus schwa (as in the old-fashioned pronunciation of the female name "Maria" and the term "Black Maria" for a paddy wagon. That spelling for that sound at the end of a word has been changed to IAH (except in "Black Maria"), as in the given name Mariah and the ordinary noun "pariah". (Now, do you see the need for spelling reform?)
Here, the sound is long-E plus schwa, which is more clearly written EA.
Putting this all together, we get: "aylexithymea".
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* A pharmaceutical company has recently created a SIXTH pronunciation for X, in the marketing name of a new drug, "Farxiga", which is supposed to be pronounced with an S-sound! That is atrocious, but English does not have any authoritative body to ban such disgraceful misspellings.

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Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)

Postby chridd » Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:10 am UTC

Mega85 wrote:A pharmaceutical company apparently is guilty of having created a sixth pronunciation for the letter "x".
[...]X can represent five different sounds (KS as in "nexus", GZ as in "exist", KSH as in "luxury", GZH as in "luxurious", and Z as in "xylem").*[...]* A pharmaceutical company has recently created a SIXTH pronunciation for X, in the marketing name of a new drug, "Farxiga", which is supposed to be pronounced with an S-sound! That is atrocious, but English does not have any authoritative body to ban such disgraceful misspellings.
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Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)

Postby eSOANEM » Sun Apr 22, 2018 6:36 pm UTC

xylophone is /z/
my pronouns are they

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Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)

Postby Eebster the Great » Sun Apr 22, 2018 6:53 pm UTC

So is "xylem," which was in the list.

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Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)

Postby ThirdParty » Sun Apr 22, 2018 7:32 pm UTC

I'm not sure I even know what a "xylem" is. I wonder why they didn't pick a less obscure word for their list, such as "xylophone" or "tableaux".

Also, I pronounce "luxurious" with /gzh/ and not /ksh/. "Crucifixion" would have been a more unambiguous example of "x" as /ksh/.

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Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)

Postby pogrmman » Sun Apr 22, 2018 7:41 pm UTC

ThirdParty wrote:I'm not sure I even know what a "xylem" is. I wonder why they didn't pick a less obscure word for their list, such as "xylophone" or "tableaux".

Also, I pronounce "luxurious" with /gzh/ and not /ksh/. "Crucifixion" would have been a more unambiguous example of "x" as /ksh/.


Xylem and xylophone have the same x sound, but not tableaux (the x is silent, because French).

I also pronounce luxurious with /gzh/ -- their choice of words is weird.

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Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)

Postby flicky1991 » Sun Apr 22, 2018 7:46 pm UTC

ThirdParty wrote:Also, I pronounce "luxurious" with /gzh/ and not /ksh/. "Crucifixion" would have been a more unambiguous example of "x" as /ksh/.
pogrmman wrote:I also pronounce luxurious with /gzh/ -- their choice of words is weird.
You misread. They had "luxurious" the same as your pronunciations.
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Re: Regional Dialect and Idiolect Oddities (pronunciation)

Postby Liri » Sun Apr 22, 2018 8:15 pm UTC

ThirdParty wrote:I'm not sure I even know what a "xylem" is. I wonder why they didn't pick a less obscure word for their list, such as "xylophone" or "tableaux"

Xylem is one of the types of transport tissues in vascular plants, taking water and nutrients up from the roots.

I believe, correct me if I'm wrong, that the 'x' in 'tableaux' is silent. Not... "tabloze".
There's a certain amount of freedom involved in cycling: you're self-propelled and decide exactly where to go. If you see something that catches your eye to the left, you can veer off there, which isn't so easy in a car, and you can't cover as much ground walking.


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