Overmorrow

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v1ND
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Overmorrow

Postby v1ND » Mon Jul 07, 2008 6:12 pm UTC

Recently I discovered the obsolete word overmorrow. I gotta say I'm definitely a fan of it already.

It's been almost 500 years and I would say it's about time to bring it back.

Also if you have any other useful obsolete words that could do with a revival, bring them to our attention. :wink:

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Re: Overmorrow

Postby spiffo » Mon Jul 07, 2008 6:24 pm UTC

nice find, I think I'll use it too, my college orientation is overmorrow.

I suppose crapulous fits this category no? http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/crapulous fun to say.

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Re: Overmorrow

Postby ZLVT » Mon Jul 07, 2008 7:21 pm UTC

v1ND wrote:Recently I discovered the obsolete word overmorrow. I gotta say I'm definitely a fan of it already.

It's been almost 500 years and I would say it's about time to bring it back.


THANKYOU THANKYOU THANKYOU! I've been searchign for an english word for this all my life. Magyarul it's "honap után" lit. after tomorrow. Is there an equivalent for yesterday? We say "tegnap elött" lit. before yesterday.

Edit:
I use these because magyarul we have equivalents and they make things flow much nicer:
hither/tither/whither - to here/there/where
hence/thence/whence - from here/there/where
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Re: Overmorrow

Postby liza » Mon Jul 07, 2008 8:07 pm UTC

ZLVT wrote:Is there an equivalent for yesterday?

"Ereyesterday" was suggested once here, but it is even more archaic than "overmorrow" and googling the term will in fact get you that xkcd thread, among few other results.
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Re: Overmorrow

Postby DubioserKerl » Mon Jul 07, 2008 9:40 pm UTC

Cool word!

I always wondered why it was such an efford to translate the German "übermorgen" to English. I mean... "day after tomorrow" IS too damn long :-)

Same for "Vorgestern"; that is the "day before yesterday".

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Re: Overmorrow

Postby gmalivuk » Mon Jul 07, 2008 9:53 pm UTC

What I like is that if you just naively translate the parts of übermorgen, you *do* get the word "overmorrow".

(It's also interesting that in a number of languages there is a word which can be used both for "morning" and "tomorrow".)
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Re: Overmorrow

Postby DubioserKerl » Mon Jul 07, 2008 9:57 pm UTC

That might be because the next morning is usually tomorrow :-)
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Re: Overmorrow

Postby gibberishtwist » Tue Jul 08, 2008 7:06 am UTC

DubioserKerl wrote:That might be because the next morning is usually tomorrow :-)


Tomorrow is a new morning. Did I just blow your mind?
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Re: Overmorrow

Postby DubioserKerl » Tue Jul 08, 2008 7:12 am UTC

Tomorrow never dies.

Meh... can anyone get back to topic ;-) ?
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Re: Overmorrow

Postby enk » Tue Jul 08, 2008 8:21 am UTC

I will chime in with the Danish version, which is - not surprisingly - similar: Overmorgen and happily carry on with today's lecture in Danish:

Morgen (pronounced like non-rhotic English mourn) alone means "morning". "Tomorrow" is simply i morgen (Danish "i" is pronounced like the English "e"), which directly translated means "in morning", but the expression "in the morning" is instead om morgenen, which directly translated becomes "about/around/related to the morning".

"Yesterday" is i går ("går" is pronounced like a rushed non-rhotic English gore) and "the day before yesterday" is i forgårs ("the day before yesterday"). Unlike "morgen", "går" can't be used as a noun by itself (but the homophone gård means "farm" or "yard" and homonym "går" is the present tense of at gå which is "to walk" or "to go").

Language is fun :)

v1ND wrote:Also if you have any other useful obsolete words that could do with a revival, bring them to our attention. :wink:


More may be found here, where "overmorrow" was in fact also discussed :wink:
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Re: Overmorrow

Postby steewi » Tue Jul 08, 2008 12:11 pm UTC

Morgen and morrow are cognate. The Anglo-Saxon morgan became morwan an then lost the -an ending in Middle English.

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Re: Overmorrow

Postby gmalivuk » Tue Jul 08, 2008 2:35 pm UTC

enk wrote:(Danish "i" is pronounced like the English "e")

You say that as if there were only one way we pronounce "e" in English...
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Re: Overmorrow

Postby enk » Tue Jul 08, 2008 3:57 pm UTC

gmalivuk wrote:
enk wrote:(Danish "i" is pronounced like the English "e")

You say that as if there were only one way we pronounce "e" in English...


I meant that "i" when it is all by itself is pronounced like an English "e" all by itself. Like when you enumerate the alphabet or something.
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Re: Overmorrow

Postby gmalivuk » Wed Jul 09, 2008 4:05 am UTC

enk wrote:
gmalivuk wrote:
enk wrote:(Danish "i" is pronounced like the English "e")

You say that as if there were only one way we pronounce "e" in English...


I meant that "i" when it is all by itself is pronounced like an English "e" all by itself. Like when you enumerate the alphabet or something.

Ah. So then the Danish word "i" is pronounced like the English letter E. Gotcha. :-)
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Re: Overmorrow

Postby ZLVT » Wed Jul 23, 2008 3:53 pm UTC

swebban is an OE word meaning "to put to sleep", just because I can, I shall conjugate it:

Impersonal Cases:
Infinitive I - swebban
Infinitive II - tō swebbanne
Present Participle - swefende
Past Participle - swefed
singular imperative - swefe
plural imperative - swebbaþ

Personal Cases:

Code: Select all

subject    - present - past -   subj. Pres - subj. Past
I          - swebbe  - swefede   - swebbe  - swefede
thou       - swefest - swefedest - swebbe  - swefede
he/she/it  - swefeþ  - swefede   - swebbe  - swefede
we/ye/they - swebbaþ - swefedon  - swebben - swefeden
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Re: Overmorrow

Postby goofy » Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:28 pm UTC

I'm sure that many languages go even further, for instance Telugu:

ఆపలిమొన్న āvalimonna n., అటుమొన్న aṭumonna adv. the day before the day before yesterday, three days ago.
ఆపలెల్లుణ్డి āvalelluṇḍi adv. the day after the day after tomorrow.

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Re: Overmorrow

Postby steewi » Fri Jul 25, 2008 3:57 am UTC

ZLVT wrote:swebban is an OE word meaning "to put to sleep",


And, IIRC, it became the Early Modern English 'swive', meaning, more or less, 'fuck'.

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Re: Overmorrow

Postby gibberishtwist » Fri Jul 25, 2008 5:48 am UTC

I've been meaning to ask, how exactly is this word used? Do I say "I'll do it overmorrow" or "I'll do it on the overmorrow?" This has been plaguing me ever since I learned this word.
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Re: Overmorrow

Postby gmalivuk » Sat Jul 26, 2008 5:54 am UTC

The first OED quotation is "Vp Sara, let vs make oure prayer vnto God to daye, tomorow, and ouermorow."

So, looks like it can be used adverbially, the same way as "tomorrow".
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Re: Overmorrow

Postby ZLVT » Sat Jul 26, 2008 6:03 am UTC

Seriously people, is the OED that good?
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Re: Overmorrow

Postby Frello » Sat Jul 26, 2008 7:59 pm UTC

enk wrote:I will chime in with the Danish version, which is - not surprisingly - similar: Overmorgen and happily carry on with today's lecture in Danish:

Morgen (pronounced like non-rhotic English mourn) alone means "morning". "Tomorrow" is simply i morgen (Danish "i" is pronounced like the English "e"), which directly translated means "in morning", but the expression "in the morning" is instead om morgenen, which directly translated becomes "about/around/related to the morning".

"Yesterday" is i går ("går" is pronounced like a rushed non-rhotic English gore) and "the day before yesterday" is i forgårs ("the day before yesterday"). Unlike "morgen", "går" can't be used as a noun by itself (but the homophone gård means "farm" or "yard" and homonym "går" is the present tense of at gå which is "to walk" or "to go").

Language is fun :)
And "i overmorgenmorgen" (meaning "the day after the day after tomorrow"), while not an official word, is also relatively common, as far as I'm concerned. Yeah, we Danes are cool like that.
Nice to see another one of us at these boards, by the way. I remember seeing your avatar earlier thinking "Don't these little fellows only exist in Denmark?", since I didn't see your location/your location wasn't there.

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Re: Overmorrow

Postby ZLVT » Sun Jul 27, 2008 3:21 am UTC

Frello wrote:I remember seeing your avatar earlier thinking "Don't these little fellows only exist in Denmark?", since I didn't see your location/your location wasn't there.


What /are/ those?
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Re: Overmorrow

Postby Frello » Sun Jul 27, 2008 7:55 am UTC

ZLVT wrote:
Frello wrote:I remember seeing your avatar earlier thinking "Don't these little fellows only exist in Denmark?", since I didn't see your location/your location wasn't there.


What /are/ those?
Kaj-kager = Kaj cakes. "Kaj" is the name of a frog in a long-running (since 1971) and very popular childrens show called "Kaj & Andrea", about two hand-puppets, I think. Some sort of dolls, anyway. I think the cake was modelled after Kaj. I guess you could compare "Kaj & Andrea" to "Sesame Street" in terms of popularity and place in their respective pop cultures. Think of it as an Elmo cake, maybe.

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Re: Overmorrow

Postby gmalivuk » Sun Jul 27, 2008 4:01 pm UTC

ZLVT wrote:Seriously people, is the OED that good?

What do you mean by "that" good?

It is an excellent compendium of word usage going back to the very beginnings of English, so in my experience, yes, it is really damn good when you're trying to find information about older words and word usage.
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Re: Overmorrow

Postby ZLVT » Mon Jul 28, 2008 12:19 am UTC

Well, everyone seems to refer to the OED as the be-all and end-all book on the subject
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Re: Overmorrow

Postby Eugo » Mon Jul 28, 2008 4:50 am UTC

gmalivuk wrote:What I like is that if you just naively translate the parts of übermorgen, you *do* get the word "overmorrow".

(It's also interesting that in a number of languages there is a word which can be used both for "morning" and "tomorrow".)


In SCB it's "sutra/sjutra", literally "off the morning", or "starting with the morning". Then there's "prekosutra" - the day after tomorrow, literally "over/on-the-other-side-of tomorrow", and "naksutra" - the day after that, etymology unclear.

Same goes into the past, with juče/prekjuče/nakjuče (јуче/прекјуче/накјуче).

As for these coincidences, I like the Hungarian dél - noon, south and nap - day, sun.
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Re: Overmorrow

Postby ZLVT » Mon Jul 28, 2008 7:05 am UTC

Week is also "hét" meaning seven
night is "este" probably from the verb esni - to fall, so after the sun has fallen

Acutally, all our compass points are times..kinda:
North - észak - éjszaka, at night
South - dél - noon
East - kelet - Kelni, to rise so where the sun rises.
West - nyugat - nyugodni, or nyugot is to calm down/rest or calm (adj) so lit. where the sun goes to rest
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Re: Overmorrow

Postby easilyamused » Sun Aug 17, 2008 2:47 pm UTC

In Greek it's:
  • μεθαύριο (methávrio), overmorrow
  • αντιμεθαύριο (antimethávrio), the day after the day after tomorrow
  • προχθές (prochthés), the day before yesterday
  • αντιπροχθές (antiprochthés), the day before the day before yesterday
all perfectly good words in common use.

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Re: Overmorrow

Postby Qoppa » Mon Aug 18, 2008 3:56 am UTC

Since it seems to be the cool thing to do, Russian:
позавчера (pozavchera) - the day before yesterday (literally, something like behind yesterday)
вчера (vchera) = yesterday
сегодня (sjevodnja)- today
завтра (zavtra)- tomorrow
послезавтра (posljezavtra) - the day after tomorrow (literally, after tomorrow)

Code: Select all

_=0,w=-1,(*t)(int,int);a()??<char*p="[gd\
~/d~/\\b\x7F\177l*~/~djal{x}h!\005h";(++w
<033)?(putchar((*t)(w??(p:>,w?_:0XD)),a()
):0;%>O(x,l)??<_='['/7;{return!(x%(_-11))
?x??'l:x^(1+ ++l);}??>main(){t=&O;w=a();}

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Re: Overmorrow

Postby ZLVT » Mon Aug 18, 2008 4:40 am UTC

Qoppa wrote:сегодня (sjevodnja)- today


Is my Russian bad, or is one of those a typo?
Also, why and when do you use a j before an e?
I know that Jestj does it, and I see that you softened с and л(didn't know you could do that) but not ч.
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Re: Overmorrow

Postby Qoppa » Mon Aug 18, 2008 7:55 pm UTC

ZLVT wrote:
Qoppa wrote:сегодня (sjevodnja)- today


Is my Russian bad, or is one of those a typo?
Also, why and when do you use a j before an e?
I know that Jestj does it, and I see that you softened с and л(didn't know you could do that) but not ч.

It's not a typo. Сегодня is literally "сего дня", meaning " of this day", where 'сей' is a now rather archaic form of the word 'this' (you still find it in some set phrases, but for the most part, the word has been replaced with этот). The genitive singular endings -его, -ого are always pronounced -jevo, -ovo. So since the expression 'this day' is in the genitive: сей день ==> сего дня, it's pronounced 'sjevo dnja'. And it just stuck when it became one word. Note that if the sequence of letters ого or его occur not because of a present or historical genitive, they will be pronounced as expected: ogo or jego. For example, погода (weather) is pronounced 'pogoda', not 'povoda', because the 'ogo' isn't, and never was a genitive marker.

The Russian letters 'е ё и я ю' are always pronounced 'je jo i ja ju' respectively at the beginning of a word, but word medially, they will cause the preceding sound to be be palatalized. The fact that I didn't transcribe the palatalization in some spots is just inconsistency on my part. Depending on who's doing the transliterating, anything from none to all of the palatalization may be marked.

Code: Select all

_=0,w=-1,(*t)(int,int);a()??<char*p="[gd\
~/d~/\\b\x7F\177l*~/~djal{x}h!\005h";(++w
<033)?(putchar((*t)(w??(p:>,w?_:0XD)),a()
):0;%>O(x,l)??<_='['/7;{return!(x%(_-11))
?x??'l:x^(1+ ++l);}??>main(){t=&O;w=a();}

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Re: Overmorrow

Postby ZLVT » Tue Aug 19, 2008 5:25 am UTC

Qoppa wrote:
ZLVT wrote:
Qoppa wrote:сегодня (sjevodnja)- today


Is my Russian bad, or is one of those a typo?
Also, why and when do you use a j before an e?
I know that Jestj does it, and I see that you softened с and л(didn't know you could do that) but not ч.

It's not a typo. Сегодня is literally "сего дня", meaning " of this day", where 'сей' is a now rather archaic form of the word 'this' (you still find it in some set phrases, but for the most part, the word has been replaced with этот). The genitive singular endings -его, -ого are always pronounced -jevo, -ovo. So since the expression 'this day' is in the genitive: сей день ==> сего дня, it's pronounced 'sjevo dnja'. And it just stuck when it became one word. Note that if the sequence of letters ого or его occur not because of a present or historical genitive, they will be pronounced as expected: ogo or jego. For example, погода (weather) is pronounced 'pogoda', not 'povoda', because the 'ogo' isn't, and never was a genitive marker.

The Russian letters 'е ё и я ю' are always pronounced 'je jo i ja ju' respectively at the beginning of a word, but word medially, they will cause the preceding sound to be be palatalized. The fact that I didn't transcribe the palatalization in some spots is just inconsistency on my part. Depending on who's doing the transliterating, anything from none to all of the palatalization may be marked.


O, Much thanks, I thought that e and i only palatalise t, n, and d (Lenjin Vladjimir Putjin) and not just any consonant. Hmm, shall have to talk to my parents about this. (compulsory Russian...iron curtain and what not. Then again they told me that the -ogo ending was always pronounced -ava so mayhaps their Russian deteriorated more than they thought...
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Re: Overmorrow

Postby steewi » Tue Aug 19, 2008 6:03 am UTC

ZLVT wrote:Hmm, shall have to talk to my parents about this. (compulsory Russian...iron curtain and what not. Then again they told me that the -ogo ending was always pronounced -ava so mayhaps their Russian deteriorated more than they thought...


Remember also that unstressed 'o's in Russian are pronounced as [a]. When you're transcribing Russian, you use the spelling, but there are some exceptions. Sometimes ë is transcribed ë, other times it's transcribed jo; sometimes e at the beginning of a word is transcribed je.

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Re: Overmorrow

Postby gmalivuk » Tue Aug 19, 2008 6:54 pm UTC

ZLVT wrote:
Qoppa wrote:сегодня (sjevodnja)- today

Is my Russian bad, or is one of those a typo?

I think there's still a typo there, since the bolded Cyrillic should be pronounced as a 'g', shouldn't it?

As far as throwing j's in for palatalization, I suppose that's more a matter of aesthetic preference than anything else. I've also seen those sounds transliterated with a y.
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Re: Overmorrow

Postby Qoppa » Wed Aug 20, 2008 12:21 am UTC

gmalivuk wrote:
ZLVT wrote:
Qoppa wrote:сегодня (sjevodnja)- today

Is my Russian bad, or is one of those a typo?

I think there's still a typo there, since the bolded Cyrillic should be pronounced as a 'g', shouldn't it?
It's not a typo!!! Read the first part of my post above.

Code: Select all

_=0,w=-1,(*t)(int,int);a()??<char*p="[gd\
~/d~/\\b\x7F\177l*~/~djal{x}h!\005h";(++w
<033)?(putchar((*t)(w??(p:>,w?_:0XD)),a()
):0;%>O(x,l)??<_='['/7;{return!(x%(_-11))
?x??'l:x^(1+ ++l);}??>main(){t=&O;w=a();}

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Re: Overmorrow

Postby LittleKey » Wed Aug 20, 2008 7:45 am UTC

i love this word, i wish we would start using it again.

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Re: Overmorrow

Postby Monika » Thu Aug 28, 2008 6:19 pm UTC

v1ND wrote:Recently I discovered the obsolete word overmorrow. I gotta say I'm definitely a fan of it already.

It's been almost 500 years and I would say it's about time to bring it back.

Also if you have any other useful obsolete words that could do with a revival, bring them to our attention. :wink:

Hey, I always claimed overmorrow must be the English equivalent for the German übermorgen, but my English teachers said there were no such word!

The opposite is vorgestern, beforeyesterday, foreyesterday.


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Re: Overmorrow

Postby ZLVT » Thu Aug 28, 2008 6:39 pm UTC

I'm not surprised, from what I've heard, Continental English teachers often don't know the older words and forms of the language. My parents couldn't understand a word out here despite having studied extensively, and I know students in Germany studying Enlgish who tell me their teachers barely speak the language themselves...it's very sad. Still, you're doing well. If you have a copy of the OED (Oxford English Dictionary), it would seem, that that has all such words in it. (If you look further up, gmalivuk posted the 'overmorrow' entry.

"wasn't such a word" or "Was no such word" btw.
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Re: Overmorrow

Postby Monika » Thu Aug 28, 2008 6:47 pm UTC

Oopsie, I meant to write "no" ... the electrons must have formed to put a 't' after that without my intervention.

One can't generally say that German English teachers don't speak English. West German English teachers speak English well and West German states use good English-teaching methods. East German English teachers who had already finished their education in 1990 when the wall came down don't speak English so well because they didn't have a chance to spend time in an English-speaking country and the English-teaching methods employed in East German states suck severely. I can say that, I moved from East Germany to West Germany after 10th grade. In East Germany, English is still taught like Latin, mostly by doing translations. West Germany mostly encourages their students to write freely. The latter has proven to work much much much MUCH better.

On the other hand, math and science classes in West Germany are really poor in comparison with those in East Germany. (And there is very little support for the gifted students in that area in the West. Mostly organized privately by teachers who care.)

Social science classes are ... different. I can't say which way is better.
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ZLVT
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Re: Overmorrow

Postby ZLVT » Thu Aug 28, 2008 6:49 pm UTC

Good to know. I was raised with much faith in the Prussian system but know little about the actual mechanics of German education today.
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