words you know exist but you wonder why.

For the discussion of language mechanics, grammar, vocabulary, trends, and other such linguistic topics, in english and other languages.

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Bobber
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Re: words you know exist but you wonder why.

Postby Bobber » Mon Oct 19, 2009 7:26 pm UTC

I think that I may have a difference attitude towards it because I have heard it used in a song, and can thus associate it with a specific meaning and context.
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Re: words you know exist but you wonder why.

Postby BlackSails » Tue Oct 20, 2009 5:25 am UTC

exsanguinate

Why cant we just say "bleed to death?"

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Re: words you know exist but you wonder why.

Postby Bobber » Tue Oct 20, 2009 8:26 am UTC

Because exsanguinate allows for the word exsangunation to be formed, which sounds marginally better than bleed-to-deathination.
Also, as far as most TV-series leads us to believe, it's extensively used where applicable in forensic science.
Also, to exsanguinate can also mean to kill something by blood loss, or even in some cases to drain a body of blood, be it living or dead.

It's useful.
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Re: words you know exist but you wonder why.

Postby gmalivuk » Tue Oct 20, 2009 3:56 pm UTC

Right. Bleed to death is a passive process, exsanguinate is or can be active. It's like die and kill, which are very different.
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Re: words you know exist but you wonder why.

Postby thicknavyrain » Tue Oct 20, 2009 5:37 pm UTC

gmalivuk wrote:Right. Bleed to death is a passive process, exsanguinate is or can be active. It's like die and kill, which are very different.


One word: Vampires.
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Re: words you know exist but you wonder why.

Postby HawkDesigns » Wed Oct 21, 2009 2:18 am UTC

Qua, I mean, what the hell's up with that?
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Re: words you know exist but you wonder why.

Postby Grop » Wed Oct 21, 2009 8:00 am UTC

On the other hand, dictionaries seem to report transitive uses of bleed.

dictionary.com wrote:12. to cause to lose blood, esp. surgically: Doctors no longer bleed their patients to reduce fever.

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Re: words you know exist but you wonder why.

Postby gmalivuk » Wed Oct 21, 2009 12:21 pm UTC

"The victim seems to have been bled to death" still doesn't quite work, at least not in modern parlance.
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Re: words you know exist but you wonder why.

Postby Eebster the Great » Sat Oct 31, 2009 11:32 pm UTC

Gaydar2000SE wrote:Latin has such quirky verbs. I kind 'paedico' also an excellent one if one looks at the structure. 'I childish'?,

stranger is though that Dutch has verbs with one syllable long stems for 'to perform fellatio on x' and 'to perform cunnilingus on x' and 'to perform analingus on x' where x is the direct object that all appear at first glance to be unmotivated words.


Latin is a great language for profanity and sex acts. I don't know what the rules are regarding language on this forum, so just to be safe, I'll put the discussion in a spoiler:

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Pedicare is of course a good example (meaning literally "to fuck anally"), but so is irrumare ("to fuck orally"). The associated nouns describing the direct objects are cinaede ("one being fucked anally") and fellator or pathice ("one giving a blow job"). This is just a small sample of the literally dozens of Latin words with related meanings, most of which are very precise.

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Re: words you know exist but you wonder why.

Postby Kow » Wed Nov 04, 2009 1:54 pm UTC

I try to communicate the idea I want to convey as succinctly as possible and obscure words facilitate this.


Looking at facilitate, I want to add an 's' to it, but it doesn't make sense if I do. Oh, I think it's 'cause it translates as "using obscure words" in my mind o.0

Regarding weird words, there's always a niche that'll use it. Someone mentioned earlier a word for the space between the top of the wine and the top of the bottle. Perhaps winery runners (is there a word for that? Winerer, from Winery? Firefox suggest winemaker but that doesn't cut it) often refer to it. It's gotta be tedious calling it the space between the top of the wine and the top of the bottle, so they made a word for it.
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Re: words you know exist but you wonder why.

Postby QuixoticWonderer » Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:30 pm UTC

The word for wine maker is vintner. (just fyi) :D

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Re: words you know exist but you wonder why.

Postby Kow » Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:33 pm UTC

Splendid! I'ma have to practice saying it. That dang ntn always throws me off. I end up saying it as just a very hard n and a soft t. VIN'ner.
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Re: words you know exist but you wonder why.

Postby markfiend » Wed Nov 04, 2009 4:55 pm UTC

Kow wrote:Splendid! I'ma have to practice saying it. That dang ntn always throws me off. I end up saying it as just a very hard n and a soft t. VIN'ner.

Almost like the "long N" in penknife? Yeah.
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Re: words you know exist but you wonder why.

Postby gmalivuk » Wed Nov 04, 2009 5:02 pm UTC

No, I'd say it's more of a glottal stop between the /n/s in 'vintner', whereas penknife is truly just a long /n/ without anything breaking it up in the middle.
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Re: words you know exist but you wonder why.

Postby Dibley » Wed Nov 04, 2009 7:30 pm UTC

Living where I do, I hear the word pretty regularly, and yes, it's a glottal stop, or at least it is in the local dialect.

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Re: words you know exist but you wonder why.

Postby Eebster the Great » Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:58 am UTC

Dibley wrote:Living where I do, I hear the word pretty regularly, and yes, it's a glottal stop, or at least it is in the local dialect.

I have heard both [ˈvɪnʔnɜɹ] and [ˈvɪntnɜɹ] pretty often. Websters online writes it as \ˈvint-nər\, which in IPA equates essentially to /ˈvɪntnɜɹ/.

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Re: words you know exist but you wonder why.

Postby Dibley » Thu Nov 05, 2009 4:11 am UTC

Wiktionary lists "seller of wine" as being one definition, has anyone ever heard of this use? I restrict the word to mean "winery type person", specifically the wine maker, but also maybe the owner, and I'd call someone who sells wine a "wine merchant", and their store would be a "wine market".

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Re: words you know exist but you wonder why.

Postby Eebster the Great » Thu Nov 05, 2009 4:32 am UTC

Dibley wrote:Wiktionary lists "seller of wine" as being one definition, has anyone ever heard of this use? I restrict the word to mean "winery type person", specifically the wine maker, but also maybe the owner, and I'd call someone who sells wine a "wine merchant", and their store would be a "wine market".

Yeah, that usage surprises me a little, but that is also the first definition in Websters and American Heritage, and the Online Etymology Dictionary lists it as the root of the word in English, Anglo-French, Old French, Middle Latin, and Latin. Apparently the distinction that vintners actually make wine, grow grapes, or maintain the winery, as opposed to just buying or selling wine, is not supported by usage or history, and might just be something I made up.

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Re: words you know exist but you wonder why.

Postby gmalivuk » Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:09 pm UTC

Unless we all independently made it up, I'd say it definitely is supported somewhat by usage. Seeing as that's apparently how most of us use the word. (Though I wouldn't have a reaction of, "that's not right..." if someone used it for someone who's just selling the stuff, I think.)
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Re: words you know exist but you wonder why.

Postby markfiend » Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:19 pm UTC

gmalivuk wrote:No, I'd say it's more of a glottal stop between the /n/s in 'vintner', whereas penknife is truly just a long /n/ without anything breaking it up in the middle.

Gotcha. Yes, on reflection you're quite correct.
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Re: words you know exist but you wonder why.

Postby smw543 » Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:38 am UTC

Vintner comes from vintry, a somewhat archaic term for a place where wine is sold or stored (it actually used to be "vinter" in Middle English). It seems to originate from around the same time as the establishment of London's wine guild, which sold imported wine (IIRC, England didn't have much of a wine making trade; they couldn't grow grapes very well, and what little they could produce was used for the Eucharist), so people had contact with wine sellers, but not wine makers. Additionally, I'd assume the wine makers were more or less faceless, both because they were in another country and because wine was identified more by the region than the individual winery.

Just as a guess, I'd say the meaning changed gradually with the increase of nonspecific wine sellers, which are the majority nowadays (most people in the US live within a few miles (or even a few blocks) of a place that sells wine, but those places also sell other things—it wouldn't make much sense to call the cashier at Wal-Mart or the liquor store a vintner). On the other hand, people who specifically make wine are still around, and they have a both relatively and absolutely greater presence in discourse.
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Re: words you know exist but you wonder why.

Postby Red Hal » Thu May 06, 2010 10:11 am UTC

Many collective nouns stump me. I understand the need to distinguish between geese in the air (skein) and geese on the ground (gaggle), but the need for separate words to describe crows (murder), ravens (unkindness) and rooks (clamour or storytelling) seems unnecessary, especially as they are, in my experience, rarely encountered without the name of the animal so described being appended anyway.
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Re: words you know exist but you wonder why.

Postby Felstaff » Thu May 06, 2010 2:05 pm UTC

That made me search for the official Collective Nouns Thread, and I'm rather disappointed that the Wikilist I included 2 years ago no longer exists. I'm sure it did a few months ago, because I wanted to prove to somebody that it was a neverthriving of jesters.

Edit: Har, it appears to have been expanded, to include lists by subject, collective term, and animals.

Edit 2: And it's a neverthriving of jugglers
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