A simple code idea

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12obin
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A simple code idea

Postby 12obin » Sun Oct 26, 2014 8:08 am UTC

I came up with a simple idea for a code. I'm curious how easy it is to crack.
The phrase I encoded is not related to anything about the code itself. It's a pretty arbitrary phrase.

Hebcacamn hsibe Tibarpsiflih
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HipsterPuff
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Re: A simple code idea

Postby HipsterPuff » Sun Oct 26, 2014 11:51 am UTC

Given a message so short, just about every cypher is very difficult to decrypt unless it retains spacing and interpunction. Could you either give a bigger batch of encoded text (let's say a couple lines), or a piece of encoded text done with the same cypher and the plaintext?

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jestingrabbit
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Re: A simple code idea

Postby jestingrabbit » Sun Oct 26, 2014 1:41 pm UTC

HipsterPuff wrote:Given a message so short, just about every cypher is very difficult to decrypt unless it retains spacing and interpunction. Could you either give a bigger batch of encoded text (let's say a couple lines), or a piece of encoded text done with the same cypher and the plaintext?


Depending on who is around and sees this, there might be more than enough already there.
ameretrifle wrote:Magic space feudalism is therefore a viable idea.

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HipsterPuff
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Re: A simple code idea

Postby HipsterPuff » Sun Oct 26, 2014 4:56 pm UTC

Allow me to rephrase:

Given a message so short, just about every cypher is very difficult to decrypt unless it retains spacing and interpunction. I would not know where to start decrypting this cypher. Could you either give a bigger batch of encoded text (let's say a couple lines), or a piece of encoded text done with the same cypher and the plaintext, so I can make an attempt?

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12obin
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Re: A simple code idea

Postby 12obin » Sun Oct 26, 2014 7:21 pm UTC

Hebcacamn hsibe Tibarpsiflih harb hmgvhmnk cfnocafsin ptibar Harliofca. Alhmnheb caobmn kopscmgbe caarmn spmgmnhalparmn.

I have a couple hints with different degrees of spoileriness that I can give if desired.
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jestingrabbit
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Re: A simple code idea

Postby jestingrabbit » Mon Oct 27, 2014 1:20 pm UTC

HipsterPuff wrote:Allow me to rephrase:

Given a message so short, just about every cypher is very difficult to decrypt unless it retains spacing and interpunction. I would not know where to start decrypting this cypher. Could you either give a bigger batch of encoded text (let's say a couple lines), or a piece of encoded text done with the same cypher and the plaintext, so I can make an attempt?


My point is, I'e thought that about stuff people have posted, and been proven wrong the next time I checked the forum. I was half expecting that to happen just now. We've got more cipher text, so we'll see what happens, but there are people who are sometimes around who can do crazy stuff.
ameretrifle wrote:Magic space feudalism is therefore a viable idea.

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12obin
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Re: A simple code idea

Postby 12obin » Thu Oct 30, 2014 6:25 am UTC

A small clue.
Spoiler:
The number of characters in the decoded message will not be the same as in the encoded message.
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thefargo
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Re: A simple code idea

Postby thefargo » Thu Oct 30, 2014 2:55 pm UTC

Thoughts so far:

Spoiler:
1. The capitalization, spacing, and punctuation suggests that they are not encoded
2. The long length of each word suggest each letter is substituted for a multi-letter code
3. the repetition of (for example) 'ca', 'mn', and 'ar' supports this idea
4. the lengths of the words are: 9 5 12 4 8 10 6 10 8 6 9 6
Since there is no common divisor, the length of the substitution is not the same.


I played around with treating 'mn' as a letter (coded 1), and 'ca' as another letter (coded 2). Note the following words:
Hebcacamn , caobmn ,caarmn
substituting gives
Heb112, 1ob2,1ar2

If I then go on to guess that ob == 3, and ar==4, I get
Heb112, 132,142

There are very few words that satisfy this format. For example I came up with
floor, oar, our

as one idea. This is where I've been spending most of my energies

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12obin
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Re: A simple code idea

Postby 12obin » Thu Oct 30, 2014 4:17 pm UTC

Did you want me to confirm or deny what you've got so far, thefargo?
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thefargo
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Re: A simple code idea

Postby thefargo » Fri Oct 31, 2014 5:59 pm UTC

Sure, I'll take some help

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12obin
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Re: A simple code idea

Postby 12obin » Fri Oct 31, 2014 10:22 pm UTC

for thefargo, though anyone can look if they want.

spoiler the first
Spoiler:
You are definitely on the right track. o and b are not one such sequence, though. Those are two separate characters.


spoiler the second. may be more than you want, so read the first one first and play with that.

edit: But seriously though. Two people now have said that this spoiler gave it away for them, so to anyone coming across this, take heed.
Spoiler:
The letters and sequences that make up the code are not arbitrary. There is a "general knowledge" element there. Look at the sequences you have found so far (ca, mn, ar) with that in mind.
Last edited by 12obin on Mon Nov 03, 2014 9:38 pm UTC, edited 3 times in total.
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Cauchy
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Re: A simple code idea

Postby Cauchy » Sat Nov 01, 2014 11:23 am UTC

Yeah, I probably shouldn't have read those hints.

Spoiler:
Betty and Veronica are always fighting over Archit.(Typo?) Maybe they should try polyamory.
(∫|p|2)(∫|q|2) ≥ (∫|pq|)2
Thanks, skeptical scientist, for knowing symbols and giving them to me.

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12obin
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Re: A simple code idea

Postby 12obin » Sat Nov 01, 2014 6:59 pm UTC

Yeah!

Also Cauchy caught an error of mine. Harliofca should read Harliofb
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curiosityspoon
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Re: A simple code idea

Postby curiosityspoon » Sun Nov 02, 2014 9:05 am UTC

Spoiler:
Does this even count as a cipher? The letter U is encoded identically to the combination PF, so any message that contains either of those as a substring (including the extended form of the example, notably) fails to be injective.

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12obin
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Re: A simple code idea

Postby 12obin » Sun Nov 02, 2014 6:12 pm UTC

Curiosityspoon
Spoiler:
I don't know what a cipher/cypher is. I never used that word. I just thought it would be neat because the periodic table is widely accessible.
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Xenomortis
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Re: A simple code idea

Postby Xenomortis » Sun Nov 02, 2014 9:57 pm UTC

Spoiler:
An injection simply means that no two differing inputs will produce the same output.
Your encoding is not injective.

The letter U is encoded as 'sc' right? (U => 23 => Silicon).
Well the letter P is encoded encoded as 's' and the letter F as 'c'
This means that the cypher text (encoded text) 'sc' permits two decodings, so it cannot be decoded.
Image

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12obin
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Re: A simple code idea

Postby 12obin » Sun Nov 02, 2014 10:55 pm UTC

Spoiler:
Yes I understand that. I'm just saying that I never claimed otherwise.
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jestingrabbit
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Re: A simple code idea

Postby jestingrabbit » Mon Nov 03, 2014 2:07 am UTC

I'd suggest that a reasonable decoder working with a natural text would do fine.
ameretrifle wrote:Magic space feudalism is therefore a viable idea.

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12obin
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Re: A simple code idea

Postby 12obin » Mon Nov 03, 2014 4:19 am UTC

Thanks, I agree. Context and whatnot.
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thefargo
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Re: A simple code idea

Postby thefargo » Mon Nov 03, 2014 5:30 pm UTC

Dang it. I shouldn't have looked at the second clue you gave me. Oh well, the answer was staring me in the face if I had thought to look for it. Thanks for the puzzle.


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