## 169 puzzles (was 'mind trap')

A forum for good logic/math puzzles.

Moderators: jestingrabbit, Moderators General, Prelates

Posts: 54
Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2009 8:31 pm UTC

### 169 puzzles (was 'mind trap')

a pear tree produces 5 branches each branch hold 7 plums, how many plums are there?

joshz
Posts: 1466
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2008 2:51 am UTC
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

### Re: mind trap

Spoiler:
It's a pear tree, not a plum tree, so there are no plums.

Also, you should probably change it to "A pear tree produces 5 branches. A branch can hold 7 plums. How many plums are there?"
You, sir, name? wrote:If you have over 26 levels of nesting, you've got bigger problems ... than variable naming.
suffer-cait wrote:it might also be interesting to note here that i don't like 5 fingers. they feel too bulky.

bigglesworth
I feel like Biggles should have a title
Posts: 7461
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2007 9:29 pm UTC
Location: Airstrip One

### Re: mind trap

Spoiler:
No, 35 plums. It doesn't matter where the plums came from.
Generation Y. I don't remember the First Gulf War, but do remember floppy disks.

joshz
Posts: 1466
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2008 2:51 am UTC
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

### Re: mind trap

bigglesworth wrote:
Spoiler:
No, 35 plums. It doesn't matter where the plums came from.
Spoiler:
I think he meant how many plums are produced, but I could be wrong. You may be right, but that seems too simple.
You, sir, name? wrote:If you have over 26 levels of nesting, you've got bigger problems ... than variable naming.
suffer-cait wrote:it might also be interesting to note here that i don't like 5 fingers. they feel too bulky.

bigglesworth
I feel like Biggles should have a title
Posts: 7461
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2007 9:29 pm UTC
Location: Airstrip One

### Re: mind trap

Spoiler:
I'm right in how he worded his question, not my problem if that's not what he meant.
Generation Y. I don't remember the First Gulf War, but do remember floppy disks.

joshz
Posts: 1466
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2008 2:51 am UTC
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

### Re: mind trap

Spoiler:
Touché.
You, sir, name? wrote:If you have over 26 levels of nesting, you've got bigger problems ... than variable naming.
suffer-cait wrote:it might also be interesting to note here that i don't like 5 fingers. they feel too bulky.

Sir_Elderberry
Posts: 4206
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2007 6:50 pm UTC
Location: Sector ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha
Contact:

### Re: mind trap

I think this qualifies as communicating badly and acting smug when misunderstood.
http://www.geekyhumanist.blogspot.com -- Science and the Concerned Voter
Belial wrote:You are the coolest guy that ever cooled.

I reiterate. Coolest. Guy.

Well. You heard him.

joshz
Posts: 1466
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2008 2:51 am UTC
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

### Re: mind trap

I was just thinking that.

I'll get the knife.
You, sir, name? wrote:If you have over 26 levels of nesting, you've got bigger problems ... than variable naming.
suffer-cait wrote:it might also be interesting to note here that i don't like 5 fingers. they feel too bulky.

thc
Posts: 643
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 6:01 am UTC

### Re: mind trap

Okay I got another one.

An avocado tree produces 7 branches and each branch produces 5 avocados. How many pears are there?

fyjham
Posts: 240
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2007 1:16 am UTC

### Re: mind trap

thc wrote:An avocado tree produces 7 branches and each branch produces 5 avocados. How many pears are there?

Come on, you could at least be a real bastard about it:
An avocado tree produces 7 branches and each branch produces 5 avocados. How many avocados are there? None, we never said there was a tree...

PS: I wish to retain my hands on the basis that I'm not being smug, just pedantic

Cauchy
Posts: 602
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2007 1:43 pm UTC

### Re: mind trap

On my way to St. Ives,
I met a man with seven wives.
Kits, cats, sacks, wives,
How many plums are there?
(∫|p|2)(∫|q|2) ≥ (∫|pq|)2
Thanks, skeptical scientist, for knowing symbols and giving them to me.

Chfan
Posts: 2141
Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2008 10:26 pm UTC
Location: American East Coast

### Re: mind trap

EDIT: Ugh...
Last edited by Chfan on Tue Feb 17, 2009 8:52 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.
Just FYI, the guy isn't avatar isn't me. But he seems pretty cool.

thc
Posts: 643
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 6:01 am UTC

### Re: mind trap

fyjham wrote:
thc wrote:An avocado tree produces 7 branches and each branch produces 5 avocados. How many pears are there?

Come on, you could at least be a real bastard about it:
An avocado tree produces 7 branches and each branch produces 5 avocados. How many avocados are there? None, we never said there was a tree...

PS: I wish to retain my hands on the basis that I'm not being smug, just pedantic

That wasn't the 169 I was going for, but okay

Assume there is a tree.

Posts: 54
Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2009 8:31 pm UTC

### Re: mind trap

ooohhhk seeing as that this is turning into a pathetic argument ill post another
if Bruce Schneier has five dollars and you have five dollars, who has more money?
or before mount everest was discovered what was the worlds tallest mountain

jestingrabbit
Factoids are just Datas that haven't grown up yet
Posts: 5967
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 9:50 pm UTC
Location: Sydney

### Re: mind trap

paradoxeater wrote:ooohhhk seeing as that this is turning into a pathetic argument ill post another
if Saladin's Mom has five dollars and you have five dollars, who has more money?
or before mount everest was discovered what was the worlds tallest mountain

Look, paradox eater, if that is your real name, you've gotta understand something. This sort of thing... it isn't that interesting. Its certainly not logic puzzles. Its either some sort of koan type thing, in which case the point is to explore it on your own through meditation, or its 169 stuff, in which case you're just making people want to cut your hand off. Either way, *wavey motion* this is not the forum you are looking for.

And just for clarities sake, this is comic number 169 in the xkcd archive.

ps I quite liked the other stuff in the thread. Continue at your leisure.
ameretrifle wrote:Magic space feudalism is therefore a viable idea.

Posts: 54
Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2009 8:31 pm UTC

### Re: mind trap

thanks
ummm leeme think...........dotdotdot
it takes 1 man 1 hour to dig 1 hole(as in a dirt hole like buried treasure)
how long will it take 5 men to dig half a hole

joshz
Posts: 1466
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2008 2:51 am UTC
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

### Re: mind trap

You know, I don't think he gets it.

You, sir, name? wrote:If you have over 26 levels of nesting, you've got bigger problems ... than variable naming.
suffer-cait wrote:it might also be interesting to note here that i don't like 5 fingers. they feel too bulky.

fyjham
Posts: 240
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2007 1:16 am UTC

### Re: mind trap

Whoah, slow down there... think about what you're doing! To allow a raptor to enforce 169 we'd have to give the raptors knives... are they not deadly enough for you already? Think of the children...

thc
Posts: 643
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 6:01 am UTC

### Re: mind trap

thc wrote:An avocado tree produces 7 branches and each branch produces 5 avocados. How many pears are there?

No one? ^^

Ended
Posts: 1459
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2007 3:27 pm UTC
Location: The Tower of Flints. (Also known as: England.)

### Re: mind trap

thc wrote:An avocado tree produces 7 branches and each branch produces 5 avocados. How many pears are there?

35.
Spoiler:
Generally I try to make myself do things I instinctively avoid, in case they are awesome.
-dubsola

MarshyMarsh
Posts: 140
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 7:43 pm UTC
Location: UK
Contact:

### Re: mind trap

Pfft, raptors and knives are not scary. Zombie raptors are scary. Zombie raptors with intelligence to employ 169 is scary. The falacy of raptors, zombified emplying 169 is scary. I need a hug.

Anyway my spoiler to the original poster mr. 'paradoxeater' (That is a paradox itself eating paradox's.....quit eating yourself).

Spoiler:
7*5=35, who said a pear tree cannot prooduce plums

After my spoiler I must now chop of my own hands, but I lack the willpower, so in the future i pledge to come back in time and chop of my hands as I write this post. Preferably mid sente

TheManInTheHat
Posts: 49
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 9:32 pm UTC
Location: The Inter-Blag

### Re: mind trap

Define a "hole." Does it have to be a certain depth..... what makes a hole a "hole?"
enigmad555 wrote:10/9 the man in hat is amazingly epic

Posts: 54
Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2009 8:31 pm UTC

### Re: mind trap

a hole as in a hole that you bury treasure in or plant trees in, the one you dig with a shovel.
so i ask again, if it takes 1 man 1 hour to dig one hole, how long does it take 5 men to dig half a hole?
Last edited by paradoxeater on Sun Feb 01, 2009 11:25 pm UTC, edited 1 time in total.

TheManInTheHat
Posts: 49
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 9:32 pm UTC
Location: The Inter-Blag

### Re: mind trap

that's an unbelieveably inspecific definition of a hole......

anyways the number of seconds it would take to do so is...
Spoiler:
42
enigmad555 wrote:10/9 the man in hat is amazingly epic

UniMatrix
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2009 3:01 am UTC

### Re: mind trap

It didn't say anywhere that the tree has produced anything, or contains anything.

fyjham
Posts: 240
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2007 1:16 am UTC

### Re: mind trap

Given that you changed your question:
Spoiler:
It would take them 1 hour also.

Given that it took the man 1 hour to create a hole and as soon as he starts digging a hole is made that means it took 1 hour to reach a state where he could dig the hole. I presume this is beurocracy dealing with council paperwork to confirm the digging of the aforementioned hole and no amount of extra people will shorten this period of time.

Spoiler:
Half a hole holds no definition until you define the size of 1 "hole" which is not implied by a hole itself, making it therefore impossible to dig half a hole.

The reason you didn't get an answer earlier is cause it's so blatantly obvious most people decided to ignore your question and have fun around it by being pedantic on other details.

It didn't say anywhere that the tree has produced anything, or contains anything.

It also didn't say the pears had to be on the tree... So I guess the question is incredibly difficult. How many pears are there in the world? Does anyone have a basis for an estimate? I guess we could consider supply and demand rules and try to calculate it in relation to the number of people in the world to eat them presuming that wild pear trees make up a negligible portion of the world's fruit supply... Does anyone have any insight into the harvesting and storage techniques of the fruit industry?

Sir_Elderberry
Posts: 4206
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2007 6:50 pm UTC
Location: Sector ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha
Contact:

### Re: mind trap

paradoxeater wrote:a hole as in a hole that you bury treasure in or plant trees in, the one you dig with a shovel.
so i ask again, if it takes 1 man 1 hour to dig one hole, how long does it take 5 men to dig half a hole?

One man, one hour, one hole = One man-hour per hole.
5 men * T hours = .5 holes = .5 man-hours
5 men * .1 hours = .5 man-hours - .5 holes

T =.1 hours = 6 minutes.
http://www.geekyhumanist.blogspot.com -- Science and the Concerned Voter
Belial wrote:You are the coolest guy that ever cooled.

I reiterate. Coolest. Guy.

Well. You heard him.

Posts: 54
Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2009 8:31 pm UTC

### Re: mind trap

WRONG
no such thing as half a hole because i didnt say how deep it had to be

TheManInTheHat
Posts: 49
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 9:32 pm UTC
Location: The Inter-Blag

### Re: mind trap

enigmad555 wrote:10/9 the man in hat is amazingly epic

Cauchy
Posts: 602
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2007 1:43 pm UTC

### Re: mind trap

There certainly can be half a hole. You defined a hole as a thing "that you bury treasure in or plant trees in". There is certainly a minimum depth for a hole, below which you cannot bury treasure or plant trees. As such, if it took the one man one hour to reach this minimum depth, then it would take five men six minutes to reach half this depth (assuming that the men's efforts combine additively and that each half of getting to the minimum depth requires the same amount of work).
(∫|p|2)(∫|q|2) ≥ (∫|pq|)2
Thanks, skeptical scientist, for knowing symbols and giving them to me.

Posts: 54
Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2009 8:31 pm UTC

### Re: mind trap

tis that be true laddy, BUT i can also make an infinitly small tree for an infinitly small hole!(spelling on infinity?)
also, read the title, mind TRAP if you looked on wikipedia youd have found that they are a series of comic 169 questions.
omnomnomnomnom i ate ur knife, so u cant get hand lulz

BoomFrog
Posts: 1070
Joined: Mon Jan 15, 2007 5:59 am UTC
Location: Seattle

### Re: mind trap

Without an inordinate amount of research I'm going to say:

About 15 million tonnes per year world-wide.

I've got one for you Paradoxeater:

When is a riddle not a logic puzzle?
"Everything I need to know about parenting I learned from cooking. Don't be afraid to experiment, and eat your mistakes." - Cronos

fyjham
Posts: 240
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2007 1:16 am UTC

### Re: mind trap

That's not true paradoxeater, the definition of a tree would prevent you reaching an infinitely small size because there are factors required to fit the definition of a tree which take up space by sheer definition (A tree is made up of atoms, and I'm sure I can find a reason it needs at least 2 atoms), which makes it at least a finite size for the minimum hole to satisfy your criteria.

Also, if your hole is infinitely small then that guy is a lazy bastard taking a full hour... is he a council worker or something?

PS: Just because "mind traps" are intentionally breaking the rules doesn't make it any better

Bassoon
Posts: 476
Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:58 pm UTC
Location: Wisconsin

### Re: mind trap

fyjham wrote:

Whoah, slow down there... think about what you're doing! To allow a raptor to enforce 169 we'd have to give the raptors knives... are they not deadly enough for you already? Think of the children...

Nightmare fuel, here. Misread "to enforce 169" as "to do 69" and terror ensued.

Durandal
Posts: 659
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:12 am UTC

### Re: mind trap

paradoxeater wrote:tis that be true laddy, BUT i can also make an infinitly small tree for an infinitly small hole!(spelling on infinity?)
also, read the title, mind TRAP if you looked on wikipedia youd have found that they are a series of comic 169 questions.
omnomnomnomnom i ate ur knife, so u cant get hand lulz

0/10 troll harder

krazykate
Posts: 296
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2008 3:40 am UTC

### Re: mind trap

paradoxeater wrote:tis that be true laddy, BUT i can also make an infinitly small tree for an infinitly small hole!(spelling on infinity?)
also, read the title, mind TRAP if you looked on wikipedia youd have found that they are a series of comic 169 questions.
omnomnomnomnom i ate ur knife, so u cant get hand lulz

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MindTrap

not quite.

perhaps we could convert this thread into a thread devoted to 169 riddles. it'd be good to have a collection on hand.

jestingrabbit
Factoids are just Datas that haven't grown up yet
Posts: 5967
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 9:50 pm UTC
Location: Sydney

### Re: mind trap

krazykate wrote:perhaps we could convert this thread into a thread devoted to 169 riddles. it'd be good to have a collection on hand.

Sounds like an okay idea to me.

Durandal wrote:0/10 troll harder

Please don't encourage people to troll.
ameretrifle wrote:Magic space feudalism is therefore a viable idea.

MarshyMarsh
Posts: 140
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 7:43 pm UTC
Location: UK
Contact:

### Re: mind trap

Hmm, I think a thread devoted to 169 puzzles belongs more in the forum games, as usually we throw logic out of the window, or invent or bring in a prevously unkown variable.

Mary's mother has 5 daughter's. A, E, I, O and ........ (who is the 5th daughter?)

Token
Posts: 1481
Joined: Fri Dec 01, 2006 5:07 pm UTC
Location: London

### Re: mind trap

MarshyMarsh wrote:Mary's mother has 5 daughter's. A, E, I, O and ........ (who is the 5th daughter?)

Spoiler:
Mary. Unless Mary's mother defies gender preconceptions and named her son Mary, in which case her fifth daughter is U.
All posts are works in progress. If I posted something within the last hour, chances are I'm still editing it.

Ended
Posts: 1459
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2007 3:27 pm UTC
Location: The Tower of Flints. (Also known as: England.)

### Re: mind trap

Probably my favourite one of these:

You are inside a standard box-shaped room (four walls, floor, ceiling). There's nothing in the room except you, and you can't call for help in any way. There is no door, no windows, no trapdoors, no skylights, etc, etc. How do you get out?
Generally I try to make myself do things I instinctively avoid, in case they are awesome.
-dubsola