The one that stumped the teachers.

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eviloatmeal
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The one that stumped the teachers.

Postby eviloatmeal » Tue Nov 10, 2009 10:58 am UTC

My math and science teachers did not get this one. Is it simply due to the bad presentation (ASCII) or is this really that hard to figure out?

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This might make it easier:
Spoiler:
You can either tell me the answer or add something to it. Adding something may not give it away to others, which might be interesting in itself.
I'll try to present it in another way later if I see fit.
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Re: The one that stumped the teachers.

Postby Generic Goon » Tue Nov 10, 2009 12:20 pm UTC

Spoiler:

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WarDaft
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Re: The one that stumped the teachers.

Postby WarDaft » Tue Nov 10, 2009 2:32 pm UTC

Spoiler:
3+1 (mod 12) = 4, 4+1 (mod 12) = 5, 5+9 (mod 12) = 2
?
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Re: The one that stumped the teachers.

Postby eviloatmeal » Tue Nov 10, 2009 4:21 pm UTC

WarDaft, clever, but:
Spoiler:
look at Generic Goon's reply, which is a "correct" addition to the "puzzle" (doesn't really give it away though), your logic doesn't carry on unfortunately.

No idea if this merits spoilering but just to be safe.
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Re: The one that stumped the teachers.

Postby Puck » Tue Nov 10, 2009 4:27 pm UTC

Hint:
Spoiler:
I can do about the next 30 steps on my own; after that I need to use a resource.
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Re: The one that stumped the teachers.

Postby WarDaft » Tue Nov 10, 2009 4:37 pm UTC

That stumped math teachers?
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Re: The one that stumped the teachers.

Postby Sruixan » Tue Nov 10, 2009 4:40 pm UTC

I expect it is the presentation that they couldn't wrap their heads around - once you spot how it works, it is pretty easy to continue...
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Re: The one that stumped the teachers.

Postby eviloatmeal » Tue Nov 10, 2009 5:00 pm UTC

WarDaft: My math teacher is a gym teacher though, so I cut him a little slack.
Spoiler:
He even wrote the numbers next to each sequence on the whiteboard and still couldn't figure it out. :( poor poor math teacher.


Sruixan, perhaps, but
Spoiler:
but isn't the fun of the puzzle figuring out what exactly is going on? It's not quite a pure logic question, where you simply have to devise some way of doing something to produce a certain result, and it's not quite a trick question either. I'm not sure what to call it, but I guess it tests your intuition - your ability to recognize and / or combine different patterns and elements.

I have also presented it in this form, but I suspect it may be more obfuscated:
Image
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Re: The one that stumped the teachers.

Postby WarDaft » Tue Nov 10, 2009 5:49 pm UTC

That is considerably more obfuscated.
Spoiler:
3,5,6,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,3 and 1,1,2,1,1,1,2,1,1,1,1,10,1,1 are at least as justified information as 3,1,4,1,5,9,2 from that.
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Re: The one that stumped the teachers.

Postby eviloatmeal » Tue Nov 10, 2009 6:16 pm UTC

Indeed
Spoiler:
But in my opinion, as with everything in life, part of the task is deciding what information to use and what information to ignore. would you not agree?

Personally, given the image, I would at first try extract 3, 2, 5, 2, 10, 3.

It takes a bit of deduction to figure out that at each change of direction we also move forward one "pixel", meaning none of the pixels are part of two groups (if that makes any sense? That's how I constructed it in any case).
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Re: The one that stumped the teachers.

Postby WarDaft » Tue Nov 10, 2009 6:20 pm UTC

Oh yes, I didn't say that, but if you don't let people seek clarifications, it would not be the most justified answer for that.
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Re: The one that stumped the teachers.

Postby eviloatmeal » Tue Nov 10, 2009 6:30 pm UTC

True.
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Re: The one that stumped the teachers.

Postby The EGE » Tue Nov 10, 2009 8:43 pm UTC

Spoiler:
It's pi. 3,1,4,1,5,9,2...
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Re: The one that stumped the teachers.

Postby Anubis » Tue Nov 10, 2009 9:44 pm UTC

Um... what is the goal here? What are you asking for? Or is that what we're supposed to figure out?

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Re: The one that stumped the teachers.

Postby Puck » Tue Nov 10, 2009 9:54 pm UTC

The goal is simply to figure out the pattern. If you wish to prove you have done so without giving away the answer, you can just continue to add to the pattern.
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Re: The one that stumped the teachers.

Postby skeptical scientist » Tue Nov 10, 2009 10:41 pm UTC

Well, any pattern like this has the property that there are several ways of describing what you have seen so far, and different ways of describing what you have seen suggest different ways of continuing the pattern. When you only have a small amount of data, it can be hard to tell whether a possible interpretation is intended or incidental, and for that reason, a lot of people don't like to bother with these types of puzzles. Your teachers may have felt like that, and not really have bothered thinking about it.
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Re: The one that stumped the teachers.

Postby Blatm » Wed Nov 11, 2009 12:36 am UTC

Spoiler:
How do you deal with zeros?

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Re: The one that stumped the teachers.

Postby eviloatmeal » Wed Nov 11, 2009 4:45 am UTC

skeptical scientist wrote:Well, any pattern like this has the property that there are several ways of describing what you have seen so far, and different ways of describing what you have seen suggest different ways of continuing the pattern. When you only have a small amount of data, it can be hard to tell whether a possible interpretation is intended or incidental, and for that reason, a lot of people don't like to bother with these types of puzzles. Your teachers may have felt like that, and not really have bothered thinking about it.

True, but my math teacher was sincerely struggling with it, he had come as far as
Spoiler:
writing

Code: Select all

3-4-5-2
-1-1-9
which he was staring at intensely, trying to figure out the relation between the verticals and the horizontals.
I do agree with you, this is more of an intuition test than a logic test. Perhaps we need a forum section labeled "A Beautiful Mind - Going-crazy-schizophrenic-pattern-popping-out Puzzles". But I might end up sitting in there all by myself trying to complete the "number 23" thing. :P
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