How to confirm if someone is your "future you"?

A forum for good logic/math puzzles.

Moderators: jestingrabbit, Moderators General, Prelates

User avatar
Madge
Posts: 69
Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2009 3:45 am UTC
Location: Perth, Western Australia

Re: How to confirm if someone is your "future you"?

Postby Madge » Wed Aug 04, 2010 1:58 am UTC

The fingerprint/dna doesn't work if you are not communicating in person, or if the bad guys made an evil clone of you.

Additionally, if the imposter had set up a system like in the movies where you wear fake fingerprints with little storage pieces with a DNA sample in them, they wouldn't even need to make a clone.

Open-ended problems like this are interesting because there's so many different tactics, but frustrating because someone can always come up with a way to shoot you down!
I'm writing a supernatural romance novel, it updates the first weekend of every month. You can find it here.

drkfalco
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2010 2:15 am UTC

Re: How to confirm if someone is your "future you"?

Postby drkfalco » Wed Aug 04, 2010 5:27 am UTC

Ok is easy dude, if he is me from the future, and is creeping me out if he is me... just make myself a scar that would lasts a year at least... so if he have THAT scar in the moment i do it, i would be seeing it on his arm or something...

or just ask him how much money do i owe, if he say nothing, it couldnt be me xD...

tuseroni
Posts: 124
Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2010 10:41 pm UTC

Re: How to confirm if someone is your "future you"?

Postby tuseroni » Wed Aug 04, 2010 10:12 pm UTC

Madge wrote:The fingerprint/dna doesn't work if you are not communicating in person, or if the bad guys made an evil clone of you.

Additionally, if the imposter had set up a system like in the movies where you wear fake fingerprints with little storage pieces with a DNA sample in them, they wouldn't even need to make a clone.

Open-ended problems like this are interesting because there's so many different tactics, but frustrating because someone can always come up with a way to shoot you down!

little storage piece with dna?
i'll take the sample myself, no slight of hand here. it can be a sperm sample (since like i said, sex is all i need to be sure)

if its a clone the dna wouldnt be identical, because cloning isnt perfect. and a clone would NOT have my fingerprint. fingerprints are a result of your life experiences and are not genetic. this is why identical twins do not have the same fingerprint.
and how are we not communicating in person. if he didnt come to me in person he isnt me. because he would know what he would need to do to convince me
Image

User avatar
Squid Tamer
Posts: 220
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2009 3:59 am UTC
Location: Over there
Contact:

Re: How to confirm if someone is your "future you"?

Postby Squid Tamer » Thu Aug 05, 2010 3:55 am UTC

I would ask "What convinced you when a future you came to your door?"
Now, three things can happen:
1) He has a good convincing argument, and proves that he is the future me.
2) He says that he was never convinced that the guy at his door was his future self. At this point we're both just wasting our time. I know that there is nothing that he can do to prove himself, and I don't believe that he is his future self.
3) For some reason he can't remember. At this point we can use more usual methods.

User avatar
TheChewanater
Posts: 1279
Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2009 5:24 am UTC
Location: lol why am I still wearing a Santa suit?

Re: How to confirm if someone is your "future you"?

Postby TheChewanater » Thu Aug 05, 2010 5:59 am UTC

I actually don't think asking a question would help. Assuming they have some method of time travel, the Bad Guys could have sent the actual future you, had you ask the question and him answer, then gone back to before the sent the future you and send in the replacement, who now knows the answer to your secret question.

Far-fetched? Yes. But worth considering.
ImageImage
http://internetometer.com/give/4279
No one can agree how to count how many types of people there are. You could ask two people and get 10 different answers.

User avatar
t1mm01994
Posts: 299
Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2010 7:16 pm UTC
Location: San Francisco.. Wait up, I'll tell you some tales!

Re: How to confirm if someone is your "future you"?

Postby t1mm01994 » Thu Aug 05, 2010 9:31 am UTC

THAT, the chewanater, is absolutely awesome, and true. If you are allowed to time travel, you can do that as well...
And with that, I guess correctly identifying your counterpart is impossible, unless you drop some paradoxes.
Some cases:
1. You ask a question, to confirm. Logic goes as pointed out by TC above.
2. You ask for a DNA sample - fingerprint - just any physical confirmation. An evil guy has cloned you, and made sure the clone grows up to look like you. DNA / appearance/ fingerprint; all taken care of. Not working, that'd be.
3. Scars: Uhr well... I think that'll yield some sort of paradox. He should, on the spot, gain a scar... And well.. That's quite mind-blowing.
Any other propositions?

User avatar
TheChewanater
Posts: 1279
Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2009 5:24 am UTC
Location: lol why am I still wearing a Santa suit?

Re: How to confirm if someone is your "future you"?

Postby TheChewanater » Thu Aug 05, 2010 5:22 pm UTC

I'd first see if he has a scar on his arm. If not, I'd put a scar on my arm. If so, I wouldn't. Either way, it isn't me.
ImageImage
http://internetometer.com/give/4279
No one can agree how to count how many types of people there are. You could ask two people and get 10 different answers.

YamaNeko
Posts: 42
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2010 6:42 pm UTC

Re: How to confirm if someone is your "future you"?

Postby YamaNeko » Thu Aug 05, 2010 11:50 pm UTC

Well, recently watched Inception (excellent movie btw), and extending the idea of a "token" to differentiate reality from dreams.

So, to test if someone is really you, simply create your "token _____".
_____ may be a thought, a personally created item, etc. Something that belongs to you and only you.

Extending this to clones, if you choose a physical token (like a weighted die), there can only be one, because you make it only once. I would put the date when you created the token, or possibly the time, in your own "language"/"symbols".

There are many ways to extend the idea of a "token" to solve this.

User avatar
t1mm01994
Posts: 299
Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2010 7:16 pm UTC
Location: San Francisco.. Wait up, I'll tell you some tales!

Re: How to confirm if someone is your "future you"?

Postby t1mm01994 » Fri Aug 06, 2010 1:08 pm UTC

So then, they'd take the token from you, go back to the future, and come back in the current time before the previous meeting. This way, you still have your token, and so do they. Conclusion: You = him. I know I am seriously messing with time laws and such.. .But hell, noone has proven them yet. And a thought: TheChewanater covered that, with the question.

tuseroni
Posts: 124
Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2010 10:41 pm UTC

Re: How to confirm if someone is your "future you"?

Postby tuseroni » Sat Aug 07, 2010 12:57 am UTC

TheChewanater wrote:I actually don't think asking a question would help. Assuming they have some method of time travel, the Bad Guys could have sent the actual future you, had you ask the question and him answer, then gone back to before the sent the future you and send in the replacement, who now knows the answer to your secret question.

Far-fetched? Yes. But worth considering.

was that a man-in-the-middle attack applied to time travel?
Image

User avatar
TheChewanater
Posts: 1279
Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2009 5:24 am UTC
Location: lol why am I still wearing a Santa suit?

Re: How to confirm if someone is your "future you"?

Postby TheChewanater » Sat Aug 07, 2010 4:37 am UTC

tuseroni wrote:
TheChewanater wrote:I actually don't think asking a question would help. Assuming they have some method of time travel, the Bad Guys could have sent the actual future you, had you ask the question and him answer, then gone back to before the sent the future you and send in the replacement, who now knows the answer to your secret question.

Far-fetched? Yes. But worth considering.

was that a man-in-the-middle attack applied to time travel?

Yep, only the "key" wasn't discovered in your timeline, so you can't tell if there's a middle-man.
ImageImage
http://internetometer.com/give/4279
No one can agree how to count how many types of people there are. You could ask two people and get 10 different answers.

User avatar
TheChewanater
Posts: 1279
Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2009 5:24 am UTC
Location: lol why am I still wearing a Santa suit?

Re: How to confirm if someone is your "future you"?

Postby TheChewanater » Sat Aug 07, 2010 4:49 am UTC

It seems a lot easier to me to confirm it isn't you than to confirm that it is you.

Example:
You: I have hair, and you clearly do not. You must not be me.
Him: Why, I most certainly do have hair! Give it a tug, I assure you it's real.
You: *tugs and is assured it's real*
Him: See?
You: Yes, of course. *Shaves own hair*.
Him: Huh?
You: Impostor!


This only works if you have hair that took over a year to grow, and the fake future-you still has your hairstyle.

If he does have shorter hair than you:

You: I took over a year to grow this hair! There's no way I would cut it that short!
Him: Oh, you see, I cut it like this about a year ago to prove that a future version of me was fake.


Alternatively:

You: I took over a year to grow this hair! There's no way I would cut it that short!
Him: Oh, you see, I cut it like this about a year ago to avoid a paradox when a future version of me came back and said I would cut it.
You: Dammit, now I have to cut it to avoid a paradox.


Which would get you nowhere, because it could still be a middle-man.
ImageImage
http://internetometer.com/give/4279
No one can agree how to count how many types of people there are. You could ask two people and get 10 different answers.

User avatar
t1mm01994
Posts: 299
Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2010 7:16 pm UTC
Location: San Francisco.. Wait up, I'll tell you some tales!

Re: How to confirm if someone is your "future you"?

Postby t1mm01994 » Sat Aug 07, 2010 9:19 am UTC

This works with the scars though. You think of somewhere to scar yourself. Looking at him, he MUST have a scar there.
If you know choose to not place that scar, he has a scar you don't have; he might have contrapted that in the following year, so that doesn't prove anything. However, if you have a scar he doesn't have, he's surely not you. So you place a scar anywhere he doesn't have a scar.
Either he's covered in scars, or he's not me. Either way, I'd like him to get the hellass out of my appartement.

User avatar
jestingrabbit
Factoids are just Datas that haven't grown up yet
Posts: 5967
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 9:50 pm UTC
Location: Sydney

Re: How to confirm if someone is your "future you"?

Postby jestingrabbit » Sat Aug 07, 2010 9:31 am UTC

Okay, its gotten to the point where I feel it necessary to try to clarify the sort of problems that this question has.

Firstly, there is no one accepted model of time travel which allows us to interpret the question. There is the "whatever you did in the past is accounted for in the reality that you were living in the future" which is how Fry is his own grandfather in Futurama. Or there is the "you might undo things that were done in your existence" like killing your grandfather before he begot your father.

In the first of those interpretations, all the "scar yourself" ones work. In the second, they don't. All the "password" type solutions, (including using a token or whatever) come up against man in the middle style "if you can time travel you can totally spy on me" type refutations.

So, unless someone wants to propose something that is neither of those kinds of solutions, we're at an impasse. I will lock in a few days time unless someone gives me a really good reason not to.
ameretrifle wrote:Magic space feudalism is therefore a viable idea.

markop2003
Posts: 60
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2010 4:21 pm UTC

Re: How to confirm if someone is your "future you"?

Postby markop2003 » Sat Aug 07, 2010 10:32 pm UTC

Ask him my passwords and then write something on a card and tell him to read out to see what's on his version to see if they're the same.

User avatar
TheChewanater
Posts: 1279
Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2009 5:24 am UTC
Location: lol why am I still wearing a Santa suit?

Re: How to confirm if someone is your "future you"?

Postby TheChewanater » Sat Aug 07, 2010 11:51 pm UTC

What if it's not future-you, or future-anyone at all, just some guy who knows your strategy involves giving away your password?
ImageImage
http://internetometer.com/give/4279
No one can agree how to count how many types of people there are. You could ask two people and get 10 different answers.

User avatar
jestingrabbit
Factoids are just Datas that haven't grown up yet
Posts: 5967
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 9:50 pm UTC
Location: Sydney

Re: How to confirm if someone is your "future you"?

Postby jestingrabbit » Sun Aug 08, 2010 2:00 am UTC

So right after I make my summary, we get someone using the password style solution... Yeah, I'm locking. PM me if you think you have something significant to add.
ameretrifle wrote:Magic space feudalism is therefore a viable idea.


Return to “Logic Puzzles”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests